GODS AMONG MEN- Featuring Thomas Ferrario Former Mufon Assistant State Director/UAP Researcher

0:05 Speaker 1: God, what all perhaps a diap.

0:14 Speaker 2: I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would

0:17 Speaker 2: vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside

0:21 Speaker 2: this work, And yet I ask you, it's not an

0:23 Speaker 2: alien force already among us.

0:24 Speaker 1: We must guard.

0:25 Speaker 3: Against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsolved

0:29 Speaker 3: by the military, industrial combat potential, or the disastrous rise

0:34 Speaker 3: or misplaced power exists and will persist.

0:57 Speaker 1: Now I am becoming death by our world.

1:00 Speaker 2: In my association with Project Group, they definitely withheld information.

1:10 Speaker 1: Definitely have the one on the go ahead gains you

1:15 Speaker 1: shall me twere or for testimony. You're about to give

1:18 Speaker 1: us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing the truth.

1:21 Speaker 2: So help you guys. Do you believe that our government

1:23 Speaker 2: is in possessions and the agents?

1:24 Speaker 1: Absolutely?

1:31 Speaker 4: All right, everybody, welcome back to Total Disclosure. I am

1:35 Speaker 4: your host, tie and today we have a remarkable show

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2:19 Speaker 4: continue bringing the best content to you. Twenty twenty five

2:23 Speaker 4: is going to be a wonderful year. We're going to

2:25 Speaker 4: be flying more guests in to Boston to have in

2:29 Speaker 4: studio conversations and it's it's just a dream come true

2:34 Speaker 4: that the podcast has come so far. Today. I have

2:38 Speaker 4: Thomas Ferrario and he has worked as a dive master,

2:43 Speaker 4: machinist and electrical engineer on projects in the United States,

2:48 Speaker 4: Red China, and Bermuda. He also likes long walks on

2:55 Speaker 4: the beaches for any single ladies out there, just kidding.

2:58 Speaker 4: He has been an independent researcher since nineteen sixty nine,

3:02 Speaker 4: all the way to nineteen ninety eight, which at which

3:05 Speaker 4: point Wallet Andrews, founder of Moufon, asked him to become

3:08 Speaker 4: a section director for mofon. Later, he would go on

3:12 Speaker 4: to be the assistant State director for Missouri Moufon Ooh,

3:18 Speaker 4: got a lot to talk about there. He then co

3:21 Speaker 4: founded the Mofon Dive team and Ferrario then joined Ted

3:25 Speaker 4: Phillips as his assistant in two thousand and six and

3:28 Speaker 4: later became part of Ted's SIU team. He assisted Ted

3:32 Speaker 4: Phillips on his Marley Woods project and his Tara Mountain

3:36 Speaker 4: Moonshaft project. Welcome to the show for the first time,

3:39 Speaker 4: Thomas Forrario. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

3:50 Speaker 1: Hello Tyler, It's good to be here.

3:53 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you so much for coming on the show.

3:56 Speaker 4: What an introduction. So, I guess one of the first

4:02 Speaker 4: things I've been following what you've been posting, what you

4:07 Speaker 4: know some of your work. I've dived a dove a

4:10 Speaker 4: little deeper into on Facebook. You post a lot I

4:16 Speaker 4: for guests who maybe don't know as much about you.

4:20 Speaker 4: Can you give us a little bit about your backstory,

4:23 Speaker 4: how you got into a field like UFOs and you know,

4:26 Speaker 4: the things beyond the known.

4:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd love to go there.

4:34 Speaker 5: And it's been I can't believe it's been almost forty

4:38 Speaker 5: eight years now.

4:39 Speaker 1: I've been involved, and you followed you. I started very young.

4:42 Speaker 5: I grew up in a rural area had some family

4:45 Speaker 5: members had experiences. I had a couple of experiences, and

4:50 Speaker 5: I got to know different people in.

4:53 Speaker 1: The community that they came to me.

4:54 Speaker 5: They knew that I would take their stories, their accounts

4:58 Speaker 5: to experience just that they had seriously and I wouldn't

5:03 Speaker 5: ridicule him.

5:04 Speaker 1: And of course ridicule is no part of the scientific process.

5:07 Speaker 5: But uh, but anyway, I was into it all my life,

5:12 Speaker 5: and then I came to a point I felt I

5:16 Speaker 5: had to get better schooled at it and get some

5:19 Speaker 5: a little bit of guidance where I was going to

5:21 Speaker 5: go with it. And uh, just on a whim, I

5:23 Speaker 5: called on a Sunday afternoon, Uh, Waltanders and John Schusler,

5:30 Speaker 5: and uh, on the course of a three hour phone

5:33 Speaker 5: call with him, I will tell you that Walt Andris

5:37 Speaker 5: made me a section director and gave me the name

5:42 Speaker 5: of a very great gentleman that became my lifelong friend,

5:45 Speaker 5: Bruce Whiteman, which was the first date director of Mutual

5:50 Speaker 5: UFO and Missouri, and of course Mutual UFO of Missouri

5:56 Speaker 5: was That's where it's it's beginning started with mc donald

6:00 Speaker 5: douglas engineer started MOFON to get a scientific approach at

6:04 Speaker 5: the subject matter. But anyway, I got in touch with

6:08 Speaker 5: Bruce Whiteman. And when I told Bruce that Walt had

6:12 Speaker 5: made me a section director, he said, well the heck

6:16 Speaker 5: you are, He said, I gotta meet you first, and

6:18 Speaker 5: we got to you're not even a Moufon member. So

6:22 Speaker 5: I went and had a meeting with Bruce Whiteman and

6:25 Speaker 5: we became lifelong friends. And I had a lot of

6:28 Speaker 5: experiences with him. I will tell you that I can

6:32 Speaker 5: go into later, But in the process of that, I'd

6:36 Speaker 5: met a lot of great individuals. And at the time,

6:40 Speaker 5: Bruce Whiteman had some of the best conferences in the

6:43 Speaker 5: world move On conferences, so many of the people you

6:48 Speaker 5: see on the media now got their start with Bruce

6:51 Speaker 5: was their first exposure to the media. And uh, but

6:57 Speaker 5: I got to meet a gentleman there named Ted Phillips.

7:00 Speaker 5: I attended a couple of his lectures, and never thinking

7:05 Speaker 5: in a million years he would take me up on it,

7:08 Speaker 5: I offered my services to him and he took me

7:11 Speaker 5: up on it, and he brought me into one of

7:14 Speaker 5: his projects named Marley Woods and then later Moonshaft project.

7:19 Speaker 5: And with Bruce, I was involved in Red seven, which

7:22 Speaker 5: was a project. I can go into those, but so

7:25 Speaker 5: that's basically how I got my starting uthology.

7:28 Speaker 1: And it led me on a life.

7:31 Speaker 5: Long path and spent a good portion of fet Marley

7:35 Speaker 5: Woods and involved with the Moonshaft.

7:37 Speaker 1: And but that's basically my story.

7:42 Speaker 4: Okay, So what is what's the moon Shaft project?

7:48 Speaker 1: It's just a brief synopsis of that.

7:52 Speaker 5: It's a it's an artifact in Slovakia that was found

7:57 Speaker 5: by a guy, a gentleman named Antone Hoak that was

8:01 Speaker 5: a Czech mining engineer and his family owned mining industries there.

8:08 Speaker 5: And actually Madame Curie was the first got her first

8:12 Speaker 5: radium and made pitch blend and all that from the

8:16 Speaker 5: Antine's mines. But his story was in World War Two,

8:21 Speaker 5: the Nazis took possession of his family's estate and in

8:28 Speaker 5: prison the family and him, he escaped. He joined the

8:31 Speaker 5: underground and in the process he became a captain, and

8:37 Speaker 5: him and two of his men after they escaped, were

8:40 Speaker 5: wounded in this mountainous area and a sheep herder by

8:48 Speaker 5: the name of Slovak found him and his men and

8:52 Speaker 5: hid them in a cave. And of course in Slovakia

8:55 Speaker 5: caves are even to this day, I'm told you can't

8:58 Speaker 5: explore caves.

8:59 Speaker 1: It's again the law. And he hid them in this cave,

9:03 Speaker 1: told him not to go any farther in the cave.

9:05 Speaker 1: In the process. Antone was an engineer. He knew what

9:09 Speaker 1: should be in a cave. He knew geology, He spoke

9:12 Speaker 1: three different languages, had about seven degrees in engineering. And

9:18 Speaker 1: he proceeded to find in the end of this cave

9:21 Speaker 1: a black op like an onyx polished onyx half crescent moon,

9:28 Speaker 1: extended very up into the rock, into the mountain and extended.

9:32 Speaker 5: Below as far as he could see. And in the

9:36 Speaker 5: process he dug away from it, he found a crack

9:38 Speaker 5: in it. He crawled within this object, which they called

9:42 Speaker 5: the moonshaft, and he found a waving two inch metal

9:47 Speaker 5: grill like at the bottom. When he breaked away all

9:50 Speaker 5: the debris, and some of the debris hit him in

9:54 Speaker 5: the face. Came up with a warm air, and he

9:57 Speaker 5: described what he could hear in the bottom of this

10:00 Speaker 5: object as being like heavy turbines running down there. And

10:04 Speaker 5: this makes absolutely no sense. Here, you have instrumentality self

10:08 Speaker 5: maintaining running for eons. There were still lag tightest lagmites

10:13 Speaker 5: grolling on this object. So basically that's the story in

10:17 Speaker 5: the nutshell. And Ted Phillips did get back there twice.

10:21 Speaker 5: He found the cave, he actually couldn't get in the

10:25 Speaker 5: process of the Germans were carpet bombing this area. It

10:29 Speaker 5: did collapse part of the cave and they couldn't get

10:32 Speaker 5: back in.

10:33 Speaker 1: They'd have to go back and excavate.

10:35 Speaker 5: And then in the present a war broke out again

10:39 Speaker 5: when Ted was there and the geopolitical area was locked

10:44 Speaker 5: him out of that area. So we spent a good

10:46 Speaker 5: deal of our time trying to get back there and

10:49 Speaker 5: never made it. And here again we made some plans

10:52 Speaker 5: with Ben Hansen and we're still working on that.

10:56 Speaker 1: Of course, I know you probably know Ben Okay witness

11:01 Speaker 1: in that which we did film some shows with him,

11:04 Speaker 1: and Nordi's in the Cube was one of the shows

11:07 Speaker 1: that did get to air. We filmed actually at Marley Woods.

11:12 Speaker 5: But anyway, then the war broke out again and we

11:15 Speaker 5: were we were locked at and now it's becoming a

11:18 Speaker 5: little bit more open again, so we think we have

11:21 Speaker 5: hopes of getting back there.

11:23 Speaker 1: So but anyway, that's the nutshell, The Moonshaft story in

11:27 Speaker 1: a nutshell.

11:29 Speaker 4: Right and and so Ted Ted. Ted's an interesting character

11:34 Speaker 4: because he he also signed because he was a maybe

11:38 Speaker 4: he founded the what is it the Center for Physical

11:42 Speaker 4: Trace object or Evidence, I should say.

11:47 Speaker 5: So he wanted to get back there, and you know

11:52 Speaker 5: he actually on top of the mountain on where this

11:55 Speaker 5: object was. Ted had a tryfield meter and compass would

12:00 Speaker 5: go crazy over this object in the top of the mountain.

12:04 Speaker 5: The trifield meter would do a perfect two seconds sweep.

12:09 Speaker 5: Every two seconds he'd get a strong indication of a

12:14 Speaker 5: lot of activity down there. And uh so he documented that.

12:18 Speaker 5: So it and Ted was I'll tell you he was

12:20 Speaker 5: a physical trace man. And over the years, you know,

12:25 Speaker 5: Ted worked with Professor Allen Heinick and he was the

12:30 Speaker 5: man in the field for he did the physical trace.

12:33 Speaker 5: And another gentleman we can go in tonight. You know,

12:36 Speaker 5: Jacques Valet was a good friend at Ted's and Jock

12:41 Speaker 5: worked with Allen, and Jock did all the software and

12:44 Speaker 5: his programs he wrote, and Ted was the man in

12:47 Speaker 5: the field.

12:48 Speaker 1: So there was quite a team there, I will tell you.

12:51 Speaker 4: I know you So that's a that's a great trio

12:54 Speaker 4: right there with Ted with the physical trace Jay Allen

12:59 Speaker 4: Heinich bringing the you know, the science and the astronomy,

13:02 Speaker 4: and and then Jacques with the uh computer engineering. So

13:09 Speaker 4: wow wow. So I had no idea the connections ran

13:13 Speaker 4: that deep with with this, so one of them. That's amazing.

13:19 Speaker 4: So so maybe let's start off. Uh uh, I don't

13:24 Speaker 4: want to, I don't want to backtrack. But have you

13:28 Speaker 4: ever had an experience of your own?

13:32 Speaker 1: Yes?

13:33 Speaker 5: I did, And you know, it's the first thing you

13:38 Speaker 5: you learn when you go when you become you take

13:41 Speaker 5: investigator training uh with move On the Mutual UFO network.

13:46 Speaker 5: And I must say that Ted Phillips wrote chapters in

13:48 Speaker 5: the book at the move On book on how to

13:51 Speaker 5: do physical trace cases and how to you know, do

13:54 Speaker 5: the analysis and take sampling and grid patterns and but

13:59 Speaker 5: right under there were other experts in psychology that wrote

14:02 Speaker 5: the book on interviewing people. And one of the things

14:06 Speaker 5: that you know, you from the very beginning you learn

14:08 Speaker 5: is you never take your personal experiences that you have

14:12 Speaker 5: had or learned in the field when you're out with

14:15 Speaker 5: a witness or anything, and even high contact, you know,

14:19 Speaker 5: you never little simple things like nodding your head yes.

14:22 Speaker 1: When you're telling your story. You don't want to subject

14:26 Speaker 1: them to any influence.

14:27 Speaker 5: So my own personal experiences and we never talked about that,

14:33 Speaker 5: but I will tell you my parents had experiences. I

14:39 Speaker 5: as a young boy, had an experience and and here

14:43 Speaker 5: again it's now I have because I've gone in and departed.

14:48 Speaker 5: I go where a lot of euthologists don't want to go,

14:51 Speaker 5: and some will throw rocks at you.

14:53 Speaker 1: I've ended up in.

14:55 Speaker 5: But and I will tell you that all the top

14:58 Speaker 5: eufologists that I've dealt with the years, I know from

15:02 Speaker 5: Ted speaking Alan went there.

15:05 Speaker 1: Ted ended up there, and so many others I know

15:10 Speaker 1: ended up in this realm. But uh, and that is

15:14 Speaker 1: basically that they're not interplanetaria. It's all interdimensional. But knowing

15:19 Speaker 1: that and what I would I come.

15:22 Speaker 5: I worked with some great theologians, even in that we're

15:26 Speaker 5: involved with Moufon, and one in Saint Louis act actually,

15:30 Speaker 5: Reverend John Schroeder was kind of a Muffon Field chaplain

15:34 Speaker 5: to us in Saint Louis. But I basically what I

15:39 Speaker 5: had as a young boy, now I knew, you know,

15:43 Speaker 5: when I joined Muffon, there's there was like twenty seven

15:46 Speaker 5: thirty different so called species of aliens.

15:50 Speaker 1: And what I had my.

15:51 Speaker 5: Experience was was what's known now as a reptilian, and

15:58 Speaker 5: I virtually One night, I was in my bed and

16:02 Speaker 5: I thought.

16:02 Speaker 1: It was a thunderstorm.

16:04 Speaker 5: I got out of my bed and I had a

16:06 Speaker 5: cedar chest in front of my window, and I got

16:10 Speaker 5: on a cedar chest. We had a field behind our house,

16:14 Speaker 5: and as I got up on the cedar chest to

16:17 Speaker 5: look out, I was trying to look in the field,

16:19 Speaker 5: seeing some flashes a lot. I didn't know what it was.

16:22 Speaker 5: And as I'm kneeling on his chest looking out my window,

16:27 Speaker 5: I motion catches in front of me and I look

16:31 Speaker 5: and as I'm watching out my window, I see a

16:36 Speaker 5: number torso and head come right in front of my head,

16:40 Speaker 5: which would have put this later. I went outside and

16:44 Speaker 5: tried to measure this. It would have been approximately a

16:50 Speaker 5: entity of seven foot plus. But anyway, it turned around

16:57 Speaker 5: and as I'm looking out the window and walked right

16:59 Speaker 5: in front of me, and it's head turned and it

17:02 Speaker 5: looked at me with huge yellow amber eyes, and it

17:08 Speaker 5: was what's known as a reptilian now now. After seeing this,

17:13 Speaker 5: my next memory was I woke up in my mother

17:17 Speaker 5: and father's bedroom.

17:18 Speaker 1: I was on the floor.

17:19 Speaker 5: And my father stepped out of his out of the

17:22 Speaker 5: bed and actually woke me up. He stepped on my

17:25 Speaker 5: stomach and he was extremely anger, in anger, thinking he

17:31 Speaker 5: hurt injured me, and he said, what are you doing

17:34 Speaker 5: in our bedroom like that?

17:35 Speaker 1: He goes, what's wrong? And at that time I loved again.

17:39 Speaker 5: I loved dinosaurs, and I just all I could think

17:42 Speaker 5: to explain to him at that age. I told him,

17:45 Speaker 5: I said, well, Tyrannosaurus man was in my outside my window, and.

17:53 Speaker 1: So it was an experience.

17:56 Speaker 5: You know, to this day, I'm going to be I

17:58 Speaker 5: hate to date myself if I can't believe it, but

18:01 Speaker 5: I'm going to be seventy years old, and to this day,

18:04 Speaker 5: that's the most extreme, vivid memory I have in my

18:09 Speaker 5: memory bank. Now, knowing what I know, now, I know

18:14 Speaker 5: and I believe with all my heart that it absolutely

18:18 Speaker 5: was not a reptilian alien. I do believe it was

18:22 Speaker 5: a dimensional being. And there again I can tell you

18:27 Speaker 5: and we'll go into that, but dimensional beings have the

18:32 Speaker 5: ability to make you perceive them to be whatever you

18:35 Speaker 5: want them to be, and they can read you. And

18:40 Speaker 5: let me tell you, they can't read your mind. They

18:43 Speaker 5: can read your emotions, and that's just as good. I've

18:46 Speaker 5: seen demonstrations. But I do believe that they have the

18:50 Speaker 5: ability to come here and they'll be whatever you want

18:53 Speaker 5: to see, whatever you're looking for, that's what they'll be.

18:56 Speaker 1: Now that being said, whenever.

18:59 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sorry. When you're here, your case that was

19:03 Speaker 4: you were infatuated with dinosaurs, so that's what you perceived

19:07 Speaker 4: it as.

19:09 Speaker 1: I believe that had something to do with it. I

19:12 Speaker 1: actually do.

19:13 Speaker 4: Uh.

19:13 Speaker 1: Now, it wasn't a classical dinosaur. It was what's portrayed

19:18 Speaker 1: the whole body structure, the head as a reptilian. Uh.

19:22 Speaker 1: But I don't believe that to be the case. And

19:25 Speaker 1: but that being said.

19:26 Speaker 5: When they're on this side of the dimensional boundary, they

19:31 Speaker 5: are physically and that's where people mistake this. They are

19:36 Speaker 5: absolutely physically as real as you and I. They leave

19:40 Speaker 5: physical trace in that mode, so they are real, and

19:47 Speaker 5: that goes into the big foot sidings. I will tell

19:49 Speaker 5: you that, you know, and that gets into another realm

19:55 Speaker 5: dimension cryptids.

19:57 Speaker 1: But I truly believe that they will take the shape and.

20:01 Speaker 5: Form of whatever they want to be perceived at, or

20:05 Speaker 5: what you're looking to see, they will be.

20:08 Speaker 1: So do you do you.

20:11 Speaker 4: That's a good it's a good segue. It's a good

20:15 Speaker 4: that's a good basis because Jacques Valet obviously, you know,

20:21 Speaker 4: we just spoke about him, and you know that this

20:25 Speaker 4: theory that or has this theory that folklore, right, uh,

20:34 Speaker 4: folklore and you know fairies and uh, the name is

20:38 Speaker 4: just kind of progressed through the years, right, we've kind

20:40 Speaker 4: of changed it based on on on societal beliefs. Do

20:46 Speaker 4: you think that do you find that there's credence to

20:50 Speaker 4: what Jacques is saying?

20:53 Speaker 5: Well, I will tell you one of the pleasures and

20:56 Speaker 5: great joys in my life because of Ted Phillips and

20:59 Speaker 5: him still being having a working relationship with Jock at

21:04 Speaker 5: when I was working with Ted at project on Marley Woods,

21:07 Speaker 5: Jockvala spent time with us, and believe me, there was

21:12 Speaker 5: no greater joy than working with Jock Valle. And uh,

21:15 Speaker 5: but I you know, and at this point I will

21:18 Speaker 5: have to just tell you working with Jock and I

21:22 Speaker 5: have it up on my wall. You have it framed.

21:25 Speaker 5: What he led us to believe and what he one

21:27 Speaker 5: of his guidance out there that he informed us was

21:32 Speaker 5: the UFO phenomena represents evidence of other dimensions that simply

21:37 Speaker 5: cannot be understood apart from their psychic and symbolic reality.

21:43 Speaker 5: What we see here is not an alien invasion. It

21:47 Speaker 5: is a spiritual system that acts on humans and uses humans.

21:51 Speaker 1: And that was his.

21:52 Speaker 5: Statement, and that's quite a statement, believe me. And if

21:56 Speaker 5: you if you read between the lines there, I do believe,

22:01 Speaker 5: and we came away, you can you have the answers

22:04 Speaker 5: to ninety nine percent of ufology, cryptids, and even spiritualism.

22:13 Speaker 5: It's all in the same look which, believe me, at

22:17 Speaker 5: one time, I would not have gone there.

22:19 Speaker 1: I was like Ted. I was a nuts and bolts man.

22:22 Speaker 5: I wanted to get out and find a piecer of saucer,

22:25 Speaker 5: and Ted took he'd go out in the field, you know,

22:27 Speaker 5: with compaction tools and measure the imprints from three pads

22:32 Speaker 5: and figure out these craft. You know, we're in excess

22:35 Speaker 5: twenty thirty thousand pounds twenty thirty foot disc that weighs

22:39 Speaker 5: over twenty thirty thousand pounds.

22:42 Speaker 1: And that's where I wanted.

22:43 Speaker 5: To be, and I feel, you know, I apologize to

22:46 Speaker 5: people in the field that if I was out doing

22:49 Speaker 5: a UFO investigation and somebody started mentioning Bigfoot or Cryptid.

22:54 Speaker 1: I'd just leave the room. I didn't want to be

22:56 Speaker 1: part of that. I didn't want to time together, and

23:00 Speaker 1: I apologize to people for that, but I will tell

23:03 Speaker 1: you that's exactly where I ended up. And it's all

23:07 Speaker 1: one and the same, it all comes from the same source.

23:11 Speaker 1: It's interdimensional, and we'll go into that, but but that's

23:16 Speaker 1: a lot of what we've come to believe. I will

23:19 Speaker 1: tell you.

23:22 Speaker 4: I and and and I'm on that same kind of

23:25 Speaker 4: path as well where I started more as the nuts

23:28 Speaker 4: and bolts. But the longer you're in it, the longer,

23:32 Speaker 4: the longer you're a part of the community, and the

23:35 Speaker 4: more you dig, the more it just the nuts and

23:39 Speaker 4: bolt stuff. Yeah, make like it's the easiest to maybe

23:43 Speaker 4: wrap your head around. And I think that's why so

23:45 Speaker 4: many people do latch onto it because it's something that that,

23:50 Speaker 4: you know, like a craft in the sky. Okay, I

23:53 Speaker 4: can wrap my head around that, right, something that's coming

23:56 Speaker 4: from a different dimension though that starts, you know, really

24:00 Speaker 4: challenging people's not just BLAE systems, but their reality.

24:06 Speaker 5: I'll tell you I and here again. Working with Ted Phillips.

24:10 Speaker 5: I was introduced through him and met and became good

24:14 Speaker 5: friends with and we worked he worked with Ted and

24:16 Speaker 5: that Stanton T. Freeman, the nuclear physicist you're probably aware of.

24:21 Speaker 5: I know, and he worked with Ted and Us. And

24:24 Speaker 5: Stanton kind of broke my heart when I first met

24:27 Speaker 5: him years ago, back in ninety eight, because I was

24:31 Speaker 5: a tricky I admit it now.

24:34 Speaker 1: But Stanton told me.

24:36 Speaker 5: He asked me one day, he said, well, what do

24:38 Speaker 5: you think of that, Tom, that there's science in that?

24:43 Speaker 1: How do you believe that?

24:44 Speaker 5: And I said, well, I don't believe we have that capability,

24:48 Speaker 5: but I think we will one day Stan. And Stan

24:52 Speaker 5: told me he broke my heart here. He said, he said, well, Tom,

24:55 Speaker 5: do you realize He said that to take a solid

24:59 Speaker 5: object to side of a pee and to attain light

25:02 Speaker 5: speed would be the combined energy output of the Earth

25:06 Speaker 5: for one hundred years. Now do you think it's practical?

25:09 Speaker 5: We're going to build a starship? And I wasn't going

25:13 Speaker 5: to argue with a nuclear physicist. But he introduced me,

25:17 Speaker 5: you know, to some astro physicists, and they all virtually

25:23 Speaker 5: they told me they proved to me on paper and

25:26 Speaker 5: they he said, we're you know, we're never going to

25:30 Speaker 5: really attain light speed. And I said, oh, you're kidding me,

25:35 Speaker 5: you know, why do you say that? And they said, well,

25:38 Speaker 5: the physics are that are involved in it. It's it's

25:41 Speaker 5: it's impossible. And they proved to me on so many levels,

25:45 Speaker 5: you know. And and here like just one thing that

25:48 Speaker 5: stuck out to me they said, was, you know, an

25:50 Speaker 5: individual person weighing two hundred pounds, by the time you

25:56 Speaker 5: would get anywhere close to the light speed, that two

26:00 Speaker 5: hundred pounds is in excess of two thousand pounds, which

26:04 Speaker 5: means you'd have to increase your energy output by two

26:09 Speaker 5: factor of two thousand and more. Plus it's an expanding universe.

26:15 Speaker 5: There are some universes that are some are going almost

26:20 Speaker 5: in excess that close to the speed of light.

26:25 Speaker 1: So even to.

26:28 Speaker 5: You know, receive a message, if you were lucky enough

26:32 Speaker 5: to receive a message, by the time that society, that culture,

26:37 Speaker 5: you receive their message, they'd.

26:38 Speaker 4: Be long gone, long gone, right, And.

26:43 Speaker 5: That broke my heart, believe me, you know. So, And

26:47 Speaker 5: it's just the science and the physics. And I have

26:51 Speaker 5: people ask me, you know, and I asked them, I said, well,

26:53 Speaker 5: why do you feel the physics here would work in

26:57 Speaker 5: another universe? And they said, the physics we have here

27:00 Speaker 5: work throughout all the universes, because if it didn't work

27:05 Speaker 5: in another universe, it would the math wouldn't work and

27:09 Speaker 5: it would all fall apart. And now they did tell me, though,

27:13 Speaker 5: when you go interdimensional, it all changes. Anything's possible. And

27:18 Speaker 5: people always tell me, well, you don't believe on life

27:20 Speaker 5: on other planets. I said, no, I absolutely do. But

27:24 Speaker 5: the way it's going to be done is and stand

27:26 Speaker 5: said this too, is when you go interdimensional. That's when

27:30 Speaker 5: you have all this at your disposal. You have access

27:32 Speaker 5: to this because the physics are different there, and it's

27:36 Speaker 5: just a different, you know, a different story there. So

27:41 Speaker 5: that was my first, you know, introduction to the sciences

27:46 Speaker 5: of the physics of light, the traveling at light speed.

27:50 Speaker 5: And and I wasn't I'm in no way going to

27:55 Speaker 5: argue with these people, and they proved it to me,

27:58 Speaker 5: and I to this day I believe that.

28:01 Speaker 1: And but that was my exposure to a lot of

28:06 Speaker 1: these people.

28:08 Speaker 4: So I guess the next so, so I guess that

28:11 Speaker 4: could explain a lot of maybe why they're they're so

28:18 Speaker 4: intrigued or it seems that they have this like overwatch

28:25 Speaker 4: protocol on our nuclear weapons.

28:27 Speaker 5: Uh.

28:28 Speaker 4: And this has been something that's long been suspected is

28:31 Speaker 4: you know what if every time we set off one

28:34 Speaker 4: of these these these weapons of pure chaos, pure destruction,

28:40 Speaker 4: that we're doing far more damage somewhere else than we

28:44 Speaker 4: are here, you know, on the surface level. And I

28:48 Speaker 4: think that could really explain why the bell kind of

28:52 Speaker 4: got wrung and there was an increase because I think

28:58 Speaker 4: these things have been coming here longer than you know,

29:01 Speaker 4: the nuclear age. But I think I'm really ramped up

29:05 Speaker 4: once we rang that bell because they were like, whoa listen.

29:10 Speaker 4: You know, every time you set one of those things off,

29:12 Speaker 4: you're kind of ripping the fabric of reality apart.

29:16 Speaker 5: You're exactly right, and they taught me, you know, the

29:20 Speaker 5: only thing that exists there are elements of a nuclear

29:26 Speaker 5: fusion or a nuclear explosion. There are elements of that

29:30 Speaker 5: that can transgress the interdimensional boundary. So that is why

29:36 Speaker 5: they're so interested in our nuclear development and programs that

29:42 Speaker 5: they monitor us.

29:43 Speaker 1: And in some instance.

29:44 Speaker 5: I don't have to tell you, probably well aware of

29:46 Speaker 5: their air force bases that were shut down completely.

29:49 Speaker 4: I just I did have the yeah time, iasure. Yeah, sorry,

29:58 Speaker 4: I didn't mean to interrupt you. For anyone who's listening,

30:02 Speaker 4: there's a little bit. We're doing this virtually, so is

30:04 Speaker 4: a little bit of a delay. But I literally just

30:09 Speaker 4: got off the phone with Bob Sallie. He was at

30:14 Speaker 4: Malmstrom for the sixty seven incident, and him and I

30:18 Speaker 4: are working together on something right now, pretty big, but

30:23 Speaker 4: and it will evolve. It involves other witnesses from other

30:27 Speaker 4: from the mine, not incident a year or not even

30:30 Speaker 4: a year, six months earlier than that sixty six mine,

30:35 Speaker 4: not sixty seven Malmstrom, then Vandenberg. I mean, it seems

30:40 Speaker 4: these things have been breaching our military basis, specifically nuclear

30:47 Speaker 4: capable missile bases for fifty years, sixty years, maybe longer.

30:54 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, since the beginning then. And you know,

30:57 Speaker 5: I just have to add it this point that the UAP,

31:01 Speaker 5: s UFOs, whatever the label today is, these things been here.

31:06 Speaker 5: They go back to the beginning of mankind, uh recorded history.

31:11 Speaker 5: They're absolutely biblical, I will tell you, and believe me,

31:15 Speaker 5: I learned more than I thought i'd ever learned from

31:20 Speaker 5: theologians that worked with the mutual ufone network and some

31:26 Speaker 5: other things. I could go into experiences I've had with individuals,

31:30 Speaker 5: but they've always been here, and it's it's been a

31:35 Speaker 5: process of.

31:39 Speaker 1: You could call them the watchers or whatever, but I

31:42 Speaker 1: can go into it even leads us into now of

31:44 Speaker 1: all things, all the instant the drone flat. We're having

31:49 Speaker 1: that right now with all then.

31:52 Speaker 4: Yes, I do want to talk about that. Yeah, when

31:58 Speaker 4: we when we get there. But so, what is what?

32:02 Speaker 1: What?

32:03 Speaker 4: What would you say one of the things that you

32:07 Speaker 4: worked on case whatever it may be? What? What is

32:13 Speaker 4: there something that sticks out the most that that kind

32:17 Speaker 4: of changed you from nuts and bolts to there's way

32:23 Speaker 4: more going on here than I ever thought possible specific case, whatever.

32:29 Speaker 1: It may be. Yeah, there, there definitely is.

32:35 Speaker 5: And I will warn you at this point that going

32:38 Speaker 5: into this area gets into some pretty touchy territory.

32:43 Speaker 1: There's some people that don't like this. I like it,

32:46 Speaker 1: uh I.

32:49 Speaker 5: Actually the gentleman I mentioned earlier Bruce Whitteman, which was

32:53 Speaker 5: a state director of the mutual uf ON network in Missouri,

32:57 Speaker 5: and I got to be as assistant.

32:58 Speaker 1: For a number of years.

33:02 Speaker 4: You're really popular right now.

33:04 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I got two lines coming in here and

33:08 Speaker 5: it's crazy all day.

33:13 Speaker 1: But I will tell you that through Bruce.

33:16 Speaker 5: He asked me one day if i'd be interested in

33:19 Speaker 5: work going with him. He had been contacted back in

33:23 Speaker 5: two thousand and two by a gentleman that the government

33:28 Speaker 5: actually at that point wanted to do a disclosure project

33:32 Speaker 5: and they contacted Bruce because they wanted to share it

33:35 Speaker 5: with the media, and they wanted to incorporate this with

33:38 Speaker 5: a mutual ufhone network because of course Mutual ufone network

33:43 Speaker 5: was one of the first outfits and it was started

33:45 Speaker 5: in Missouri, and they contacted Bruce and they wanted him

33:49 Speaker 5: in on this. So Bruce asked me and I said, absolutely,

33:54 Speaker 5: I want to be a part of this.

33:56 Speaker 1: So it's a long story. We ended up we went

33:58 Speaker 1: to Las Vegas.

34:00 Speaker 5: We were going to fly in the area fifty one

34:03 Speaker 5: on Janit air Lines, and we waited several two days

34:08 Speaker 5: for the go ahead and they decided they canceled it

34:11 Speaker 5: that meeting, which I could go into that later too.

34:15 Speaker 5: But at another point, and this sounds like the X Files,

34:20 Speaker 5: I can go into that story too about the X file,

34:23 Speaker 5: but it was very cloak and dagger, And I will

34:27 Speaker 5: tell you that I.

34:28 Speaker 1: Met with Bruce.

34:29 Speaker 5: We had a specific place and we met the first

34:31 Speaker 5: time with a gentleman that all we knew our contact

34:35 Speaker 5: name was.

34:36 Speaker 1: He was known as Red to us.

34:39 Speaker 5: And Red actually got Bruce and I in the two

34:43 Speaker 5: meetings with people, and actually one meeting, the last meeting

34:49 Speaker 5: we were going to do was actually we went to Maryland.

34:54 Speaker 5: We went to Chronicle and like you see in the

34:58 Speaker 5: movie We're at we're at a long table.

35:01 Speaker 1: Our handler, I call him Brad, was there. We waited

35:05 Speaker 1: several hours and we were notified. They came out they

35:10 Speaker 1: changed their mind again. They weren't going to do disclosure.

35:14 Speaker 1: And our guy read told us he said he seen

35:18 Speaker 1: we were aggravated again and man, and he said, well, guys,

35:21 Speaker 1: let me tell you how it works. He said, there's

35:23 Speaker 1: two regimes. He said, there's the young regime and the

35:26 Speaker 1: old regime.

35:27 Speaker 5: The young wants to release everything to the public, and

35:31 Speaker 5: the old regime feels like it's not their duty the

35:33 Speaker 5: spoon feed this information to everybody, and they won't. And

35:38 Speaker 5: unfortunately they're the they're the guys the pay grade that

35:43 Speaker 5: signs the checks Verdal and that's where it stands.

35:47 Speaker 1: So we had other meetings after that, learned a little

35:50 Speaker 1: but and there the media was in on this meeting.

35:52 Speaker 1: Other people were there and it was called off. So

35:59 Speaker 1: that is how intricate this goes.

36:03 Speaker 5: But I will tell you that what I got out

36:06 Speaker 5: a meeting with this gentleman was and Red said, you know,

36:10 Speaker 5: after this meeting, we didn't learn much.

36:12 Speaker 1: We learned a few things. He said. You guys can

36:15 Speaker 1: speak about this all you want. I don't care. But

36:19 Speaker 1: he did inform us on one thing.

36:21 Speaker 5: And I must say at this point that Red's been gone.

36:25 Speaker 5: He died of cancer several years ago. But he did

36:31 Speaker 5: inform us on another thing.

36:32 Speaker 6: I was not.

36:34 Speaker 1: My head wasn't couldn't wrap around this. But I did

36:38 Speaker 1: learn through Red that.

36:41 Speaker 5: And to this day, if I had to prove the

36:44 Speaker 5: existence of this intelligence to dimensional beings, the one place

36:49 Speaker 5: on Earth I would go would be the Vatican. Now

36:53 Speaker 5: that being said, we were shown how to this day

36:58 Speaker 5: our government has a working relationship with a Vatican. Even

37:03 Speaker 5: in the beginning, our founding fathers, the beginning, they taught

37:07 Speaker 5: our government compartmentalization, how to keep secrets, how to keep

37:12 Speaker 5: things black. And believe me, they do, and they work

37:16 Speaker 5: with a great organization called the Jesuits, which are the

37:20 Speaker 5: scholars in that field. But believe me, and the one

37:25 Speaker 5: thing Red informed us was he said, he said, Tom Bruce,

37:29 Speaker 5: he said, you guys can share whatever you want in

37:31 Speaker 5: the ufology, but don't ever go there about the working relationship.

37:36 Speaker 1: With a Vatican and our government. So I this blew

37:41 Speaker 1: me away.

37:41 Speaker 5: I said, so UFOs are okay to talk about, but

37:46 Speaker 5: our government in the Vatican is off balance.

37:50 Speaker 1: And he said, well that's the way it is. He said,

37:52 Speaker 1: you can respect me after I'm gone. I don't care

37:55 Speaker 1: what the hell you do.

37:56 Speaker 5: But so he's gone now, and I've been speaking about

38:00 Speaker 5: this for the first time, and I got to say,

38:03 Speaker 5: unfortunately we lost Bruce.

38:05 Speaker 1: Now.

38:06 Speaker 5: Bruce died of cancer almost three years ago, and so

38:11 Speaker 5: he was another one of my mentors and great great

38:15 Speaker 5: buddies that I learned so much from. So that puts

38:20 Speaker 5: this in a realm, and it goes so deep into

38:23 Speaker 5: this realm. Not prepared to go there. But the interdimensional

38:29 Speaker 5: beings and where there's the source of all this is

38:32 Speaker 5: biblical and and I can't believe I'm saying that now

38:36 Speaker 5: I've come to that, but but it is. And uh So, anyway,

38:43 Speaker 5: if you've got any questions, since it's.

38:46 Speaker 4: Fine, right, Mike, So is what is what is?

38:54 Speaker 2: Are you is?

38:54 Speaker 4: What is being said that the Vatican is the first

39:00 Speaker 4: cover up they you know, or at least the first

39:04 Speaker 4: organized cover up in the Vatican knows more than what

39:12 Speaker 4: they're letting on. David, Yeah, because I mean David Grush

39:17 Speaker 4: alluded to this, and you know, I think I think

39:22 Speaker 4: it's something that most most like you said, most people

39:26 Speaker 4: would have a hard time dealing with because of the

39:30 Speaker 4: implications of it. You know, the Vatican being involved in

39:37 Speaker 4: this cover up. Uh, why would the Vatican want to

39:44 Speaker 4: put a lid on something like this.

39:49 Speaker 5: It the reason they put a lid. It's again, knowledge

39:54 Speaker 5: is power. They don't want to relinquish any bit of power.

39:58 Speaker 5: And the information that deals with that is it is

40:02 Speaker 5: the source of what truly comes from. It's all Biblical

40:06 Speaker 5: and of course one of the greatest text there is

40:08 Speaker 5: that explains so much of this is the Bible, and

40:12 Speaker 5: it goes into the Bronze disc and some of the

40:15 Speaker 5: greatest documentary for you know, encounters are in the Bible,

40:21 Speaker 5: Biblical and you know, here again I was exposed. I

40:27 Speaker 5: met a man that was a seminary student. I used

40:30 Speaker 5: to give his name out. His families asked me, now,

40:33 Speaker 5: please don't give his name out, and I hate it, burned.

40:38 Speaker 5: It kills me not to be able to give his

40:39 Speaker 5: name now because I like to document everything I do.

40:42 Speaker 5: But he was a seminary student, and the man knew

40:47 Speaker 5: coin Greek, Aramaic and ancient Hebrew. And he was a

40:53 Speaker 5: seminary student. His family was wealthy. They sent him their

40:56 Speaker 5: own and at that time, back in the eighties, they were.

41:00 Speaker 1: Having a problem a lot of the catacombs underneath the

41:04 Speaker 1: Vatican that it's the greatest summing, even the Library of

41:08 Speaker 1: Alexandria that has elements there that they the church rescued

41:13 Speaker 1: from the burning.

41:15 Speaker 5: But they had trouble with mold destroying the documents. And

41:19 Speaker 5: the way they handled that was they would take seminary

41:22 Speaker 5: students that had this ability to translate these documents. They

41:27 Speaker 5: would take them in and there again compartmentalization.

41:32 Speaker 1: Uh.

41:33 Speaker 5: They would bring in a seminary student, he would, you know,

41:36 Speaker 5: trans transfer, translate a paragraph, a page, usually not more

41:43 Speaker 5: in the page or two, and he'd be out of there.

41:47 Speaker 5: He'd never get the full picture. And they did this

41:50 Speaker 5: to the point where they actually got retired priests and scholars,

41:57 Speaker 5: theologians that were when they reached age of seventy years old.

42:01 Speaker 1: They actually have housing there.

42:04 Speaker 5: These people come there as labor of love for their

42:07 Speaker 5: religion and for this, and they work the rest virtually

42:11 Speaker 5: they agree to. They give them the whole books to translate,

42:15 Speaker 5: and they do this, but their their house, fed, clothed there.

42:19 Speaker 5: They never leave the rest of their life these facilities,

42:22 Speaker 5: and that's how they do this. So there is a

42:26 Speaker 5: process there. Now, some of the seminary, these students, of course,

42:31 Speaker 5: when they got out of there, they did they go

42:34 Speaker 5: somewhere and sounds funny, but they go have a beer

42:37 Speaker 5: somewhere and they'd share their thoughts and they get a

42:40 Speaker 5: bigger picture of this, what was going on, what kind

42:43 Speaker 5: of materials. So they did come away with a pretty

42:47 Speaker 5: good idea of what the route, the core of all

42:50 Speaker 5: this meant. So and I was exposed to that again,

42:55 Speaker 5: I can't believe you know that I was. But that's

43:00 Speaker 5: what turned me around in this and made me and

43:03 Speaker 5: I you know, I was a Catholic, I grew up

43:05 Speaker 5: a Catholic. I fell away from the church for years,

43:09 Speaker 5: and I never in a million years thought this field

43:13 Speaker 5: would bring me back to the church. But it absolutely has,

43:17 Speaker 5: and it did with Ted and and even Heinez ended

43:21 Speaker 5: up there and so many others.

43:24 Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot. I don't know, if you know, the

43:30 Speaker 4: woman named Diana Pasoka, but in her book American Cosmic,

43:37 Speaker 4: she as a person who is pseudonymed in the in

43:42 Speaker 4: the book, his name's Tyler. Ironically that's my name. But

43:48 Speaker 4: she was taken by Tyler to the Vatican archives. And

43:55 Speaker 4: she doesn't go into too much detail about what was

43:59 Speaker 4: shown to her, but a lot of it aligns with

44:03 Speaker 4: what you're saying right now. And I Tyler, the guy

44:08 Speaker 4: that she went with, he is a NASA launch control

44:15 Speaker 4: officer or or to that degree. Most people know who

44:19 Speaker 4: he is by now, so I don't think it's a

44:22 Speaker 4: secret anymore. Tim Taylor is widely considered who that is.

44:30 Speaker 4: She's never confirmed it nor denied it.

44:33 Speaker 1: But the.

44:36 Speaker 4: The one thing you know with David grush David Greshman

44:39 Speaker 4: the Vatican and then potential crash retrieval. Do you think

44:43 Speaker 4: that the Vatican do you think the Vatican may have

44:50 Speaker 4: pieces or intact craft, just like say the US government.

44:55 Speaker 1: Does you know? I've heard a couple of specific crashes

45:02 Speaker 1: there in Italy that they did get pieces from. I

45:05 Speaker 1: can't speak on that.

45:06 Speaker 5: I don't really know, but I do know that the documentation,

45:10 Speaker 5: you know, the manuscripts that pre date most of history

45:16 Speaker 5: are there. Like I said, the Library of Alexandria that

45:19 Speaker 5: was burned and they thought was lost. The Church saved

45:24 Speaker 5: a good deal of that, and they don't want to

45:27 Speaker 5: speak about that because what it contains. And but you know,

45:31 Speaker 5: it even gets into like the gentleman I mentioned, Reverend

45:35 Speaker 5: John Schroeder was in of course, Saint Louis McDonald, Douglas,

45:39 Speaker 5: the astronauts all training, the Apollo astronauts all trained there.

45:43 Speaker 5: A lot of the astronauts had experiences that it's coming

45:46 Speaker 5: out now, they're making them up.

45:48 Speaker 1: But Reverend John Schroeder was kind of like their chaplain.

45:53 Speaker 5: They would speak with him and share things with him

45:55 Speaker 5: and try to get some understanding and try to put

45:58 Speaker 5: things right in their own mind what they see experience.

46:01 Speaker 5: And uh so the man was very knowledgeable in that

46:04 Speaker 5: again in his knowledge of the Vatican. Uh So, it's

46:10 Speaker 5: it basically, you know, it all goes into the fact

46:13 Speaker 5: that these things are It all comes from the interdimensional source.

46:19 Speaker 5: And quite frankly, what comes across a lot doesn't have

46:25 Speaker 5: the authority to be here and and there again, and

46:30 Speaker 5: we do.

46:30 Speaker 1: We're on this side, we were put on this side.

46:33 Speaker 1: We do have the authority to be here.

46:35 Speaker 5: And but that being said, you know, people have to

46:40 Speaker 5: realize just simple little things when you call upon things

46:45 Speaker 5: to come out, just even ghost hunters when they get

46:48 Speaker 5: out there and they call upon this stuff Ouiji boord seance, uh,

46:55 Speaker 5: just you know, even going and putting.

46:59 Speaker 1: Yourself in to a trance to communicate with these things,

47:02 Speaker 1: which so many people do, and they think they're all

47:05 Speaker 1: part of the Intergalactic Foundation Federation and they're dealing with

47:10 Speaker 1: something that they don't truly understand the source and its motivation.

47:16 Speaker 1: But in doing that, you're giving them the authority to

47:19 Speaker 1: be on this side. So you have to realize that

47:22 Speaker 1: you do have you do have the power over this.

47:26 Speaker 5: But if you give it the authority away, you're going

47:30 Speaker 5: to open yourself up to deal with things that believe me,

47:34 Speaker 5: this intelligence, as Ted Phillips said, when we dealt with

47:36 Speaker 5: this aid Marley, and we can go into that some

47:40 Speaker 5: of what we dealt with this intelligence, Like Ted said,

47:45 Speaker 5: you're never going to be ahead of it. It's always

47:47 Speaker 5: one step ahead of you. And as they're finding out

47:50 Speaker 5: in skin Walker, and I am good friends with the

47:55 Speaker 5: producer of Skinwalker, we were going to do some things

47:59 Speaker 5: out in Marley didn't work out.

48:01 Speaker 1: The property owners backed out.

48:04 Speaker 5: We did shoot with Ben Hansen, UFO Witness and way

48:08 Speaker 5: back we did a thing with UFO Hunters.

48:13 Speaker 1: So I will tell you that.

48:17 Speaker 5: And you know, there again at Skinwalker, they're they're dealing

48:21 Speaker 5: with us and they even brought in some spiritual people

48:25 Speaker 5: with pretty good results. And uh but that gets into

48:29 Speaker 5: the microwave spectrum that they deal with out there, which

48:33 Speaker 5: was what we dealt in Marley that we felt was

48:35 Speaker 5: the bad guy. They the intelligence used microwave, uh in

48:40 Speaker 5: that realm energy realm to do we found out was

48:45 Speaker 5: the bad guy. They did the damage to animals and people.

48:49 Speaker 5: And so Skinwalker found is finding that out. And and

48:54 Speaker 5: Beyond Skinwalker, I will tell you I'm friends with that producer.

48:57 Speaker 5: We were going to do first year Beyond Skinwalker was

49:01 Speaker 5: going to be at Marley and we had a death

49:04 Speaker 5: out there at.

49:04 Speaker 1: One of the property owners, and of course the other

49:07 Speaker 1: one backed out after that.

49:08 Speaker 5: So but it and skin Walker is an accus it's

49:13 Speaker 5: a mirror image of Marley Woods. And there again the

49:19 Speaker 5: initial the first person to do research at Skinwalker, you know,

49:23 Speaker 5: was Robert Bigelow, and I can talk about it now.

49:26 Speaker 5: We worked with Robert Bigelow was out at our at

49:29 Speaker 5: Marley and we worked with him. There was a disagreement

49:32 Speaker 5: on property rights and it didn't work out, but they

49:36 Speaker 5: were great people. They really were a lot of people

49:40 Speaker 5: don't feel that way, but we had a good working

49:43 Speaker 5: relationship with him. And so I can tell you on

49:48 Speaker 5: so many levels I have been proven and come to

49:51 Speaker 5: find out this is all in her dimensional and we

49:55 Speaker 5: proved it at Marley. Jacques Vallet proved it at Marley.

49:59 Speaker 5: And I even have him on my YouTube channel speaking

50:02 Speaker 5: about Marley Woods. I interviewed him and I put that

50:06 Speaker 5: on my YouTube channel, which is free. Anybody can go

50:08 Speaker 5: there watch He's Little. I've got thirty movies there, and

50:12 Speaker 5: you can watch the one with Josh Lay speaking about

50:15 Speaker 5: Marley Woods.

50:16 Speaker 1: What happened? It doesn't get any better than that.

50:19 Speaker 4: So I'll put all those links in the description below.

50:24 Speaker 4: But I want to tell me so from the beginning.

50:29 Speaker 4: Let's start at the beginning of Marley. How do you

50:33 Speaker 4: so you get involved with Ted and how how does

50:39 Speaker 4: Marley Woods, how does it come up? How how do

50:43 Speaker 4: you guys hear about it? What leads you there? And

50:46 Speaker 4: then what ultimately you know? What what happens.

50:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be glad to.

50:54 Speaker 5: And it all started basically with the property owner of

50:59 Speaker 5: what I call we called with Site one and Site two.

51:03 Speaker 5: And actually there are two large ranches which butt up

51:06 Speaker 5: to one another, and they're owned by two different property

51:10 Speaker 5: owners or one and one passed away. Now his family

51:13 Speaker 5: maintains that and it had been in the family for

51:17 Speaker 5: almost three hundred years. It's hard that you can imagine

51:21 Speaker 5: this back in Native American culture these but Site one

51:29 Speaker 5: is approximately at times it approaches seven hundred acres and

51:35 Speaker 5: Site two it approaches twelve hundred acres at times. So

51:39 Speaker 5: that's a large amount of real estate for ted small team.

51:43 Speaker 1: To cover at times, you know.

51:46 Speaker 5: But it all started when the property owners Site one,

51:50 Speaker 5: which is a prolific writer, and he took photos and

51:54 Speaker 5: journals he contacted back in the nineties. He wanted answers

51:59 Speaker 5: and he acted. The only thing he could find to

52:02 Speaker 5: do this was the mutual UFO network and he called.

52:06 Speaker 5: Of course, he got in contact with Bruce Woodhaman and

52:10 Speaker 5: he asked Bruce if he could come out there and

52:12 Speaker 5: investigate this, told.

52:13 Speaker 1: Him what was going on, and sent Bruce part of

52:18 Speaker 1: his one of his journals.

52:21 Speaker 5: So Bruce at the time was busy and he felt

52:25 Speaker 5: he didn't have enough expertise to get into this area.

52:27 Speaker 5: So Ted Phillips was a good friend of Bruce and

52:31 Speaker 5: he told Ted about this, and Ted initially he thought,

52:36 Speaker 5: you know, he's been chasing bread.

52:38 Speaker 1: Crumb's on UFOs all his life. There was more lights

52:42 Speaker 1: in the sky. He didn't really want to get involved

52:44 Speaker 1: in it.

52:44 Speaker 5: So Bruce sent him this part of the journal and

52:49 Speaker 5: Ted read the journal, and within three days of reading

52:53 Speaker 5: the journal, Ted got out to the ranch and started

52:56 Speaker 5: investigating this and for this first time ever, he started

53:01 Speaker 5: experiencing orts, light balls. He called him in different structured

53:07 Speaker 5: craft himself. So that's virtually why he spent the rest

53:12 Speaker 5: of his life out there, and that's why he started

53:16 Speaker 5: formed a team, the SIU team, and we got out there.

53:21 Speaker 1: He wanted to have a team.

53:23 Speaker 5: We were working with Bigelow, to be funded, to have somebody,

53:27 Speaker 5: two people, at least two people there around the clock,

53:31 Speaker 5: to be out there, and you know that level of

53:35 Speaker 5: dedication he just he felt. And Ted spent weeks and

53:39 Speaker 5: months out there himself in the beginning, but I got

53:43 Speaker 5: I met Ted through Bruce again at a MOFON conference

53:46 Speaker 5: where Ted spoke and offered my services. And Ted asked me,

53:51 Speaker 5: he said, well what do you got and these I said, well,

53:53 Speaker 5: I do electrical work.

53:55 Speaker 1: I was worked for a.

53:57 Speaker 5: Boat company, Major boat company, did electric engineering for them

54:00 Speaker 5: to layout.

54:01 Speaker 1: And he said, how can you help me? I said, well,

54:04 Speaker 1: anything you need electrical Ted.

54:06 Speaker 5: So I went out there and first couple of months

54:11 Speaker 5: I was putting up cameras, climbing ricad the old windmills,

54:14 Speaker 5: putting running cameras. We set up and one of the

54:18 Speaker 5: property owners on side one is such a great man.

54:21 Speaker 5: He built Ted a two level, two story metal structure.

54:26 Speaker 5: His office was in the top floor and sleeping quarters, kitchen,

54:31 Speaker 5: everything below for Ted to use. And we used that

54:36 Speaker 5: all the time. And that's how I got exposed to this.

54:40 Speaker 5: I came out there and spent time with Ted, and

54:43 Speaker 5: then Ted got three other individuals out there, Adam Johnson

54:49 Speaker 5: and Wie Ziggemeyer. And I don't know if you ever

54:53 Speaker 5: heard of that name, but Debbie is quite a gal.

54:56 Speaker 5: I colled my sister Wee years ago started Mutual UFO

55:01 Speaker 5: dive team for John Schuster and uh and she wrote

55:06 Speaker 5: the book I Think the Alien Colonization of Earth's Waterways

55:11 Speaker 5: and she's been on several shows. But and she's still

55:15 Speaker 5: the state director with all this going on for Missouri

55:19 Speaker 5: for the mutual ufone network and she's on the board

55:23 Speaker 5: of the Mutual Uphone network. So oh yeah, she's a

55:29 Speaker 5: great gal. She could fill your show, believe me. Uh,

55:32 Speaker 5: she's had more experiences in investigations than you can name.

55:36 Speaker 5: But but Ted, we've we start, we had a few

55:40 Speaker 5: other members out there, and it was quite an experience,

55:46 Speaker 5: I will tell you, dealing with all the high strangeness

55:50 Speaker 5: out there.

55:50 Speaker 1: And and even John Clay said, you know, he's he

55:54 Speaker 1: he says even on that.

55:56 Speaker 5: When I interviewed him, he said he felt that Marley

55:59 Speaker 5: had had a higher probability for strange cases and things

56:04 Speaker 5: going on than skin Walker. Now that's quite a statement.

56:09 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a large statement to make. Where is So

56:12 Speaker 4: is it is Marley Woods in Missouri?

56:17 Speaker 5: I can say that now it is in Missouri. For

56:20 Speaker 5: a long time, Ted wouldn't even speak what.

56:22 Speaker 1: State it was in.

56:24 Speaker 4: And we do that not yeah, okay, so you know,

56:29 Speaker 4: we don't do that to.

56:30 Speaker 1: Build uh you know, to dramatize it or anything.

56:35 Speaker 5: It's just we owed it. Ted felt to the property owner.

56:38 Speaker 5: Now I witnesses Ted had over two hundred witnesses catalog

56:42 Speaker 5: in their statements we dealt with in Marley, say, and

56:46 Speaker 5: but every one of them, of course, didn't want their name.

56:49 Speaker 5: They you know, want to complete anonymity and uh, they

56:52 Speaker 5: didn't want anybody to come back knocking on their door

56:55 Speaker 5: and uh and there again.

56:57 Speaker 1: Now it's it puts the credibility.

57:00 Speaker 5: If a witness doesn't want to ever go on record

57:02 Speaker 5: and doesn't make a dime off this and they don't

57:05 Speaker 5: have their name ever known, what purpose is there in

57:08 Speaker 5: making this stuff up?

57:09 Speaker 1: You know?

57:10 Speaker 4: So bingo And that's what I find.

57:17 Speaker 1: To be.

57:19 Speaker 4: That's why those are the cases where I'm like, all right,

57:23 Speaker 4: let's look again, because you know, none of these people

57:28 Speaker 4: even want any recognition. They don't want to do the

57:30 Speaker 4: UFO lecture circuit. They they just want to tell their story,

57:36 Speaker 4: have it, you know, be on record, but they.

57:39 Speaker 1: Don't want.

57:42 Speaker 4: The stigma attached to it. And you know that says

57:45 Speaker 4: a lot about a witness again, because there are people

57:49 Speaker 4: in this community who make up stories and try to

57:53 Speaker 4: profit off of them. We've seen it time and time again.

57:56 Speaker 4: So what what kind of I mean are we talking

57:59 Speaker 4: the old bucket, you know, cattle mutilation, crop circles, Marley

58:06 Speaker 4: Woods is to have it all.

58:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, at this point I just got it.

58:12 Speaker 5: I had a good friend Chris O'Brien which did was

58:16 Speaker 5: in cattle mutilation. He did with Linda Mullenhowe in the

58:19 Speaker 5: beginning Snippy the Horse. He just passed away.

58:23 Speaker 1: Chris did. And I couldn't believe when I got the word.

58:26 Speaker 5: But then Chris actually stayed in my home here a

58:30 Speaker 5: couple of times when he was in Saint when I'd

58:32 Speaker 5: bring him in. He'd speak at Muffon lectures in Saint Louis, Missouri,

58:37 Speaker 5: and uh he on the way out each stay at

58:41 Speaker 5: my house on the way back home, and headed back

58:44 Speaker 5: to Saint Luis Valley.

58:45 Speaker 1: You know. But h and Chris was exposed.

58:50 Speaker 5: He studied some of the reports of cattle mutilations we

58:54 Speaker 5: had in Marley and it was so similar exactly what

58:57 Speaker 5: he'd been, you know, investigating in it out there. And

59:02 Speaker 5: but we've had cattle mutilations in Marley, We've had harsh mutilation.

59:07 Speaker 1: We've had.

59:09 Speaker 5: Just what we call the unseen force, which is a

59:12 Speaker 5: force that knocks down steel gates, log chain together pulls

59:19 Speaker 5: hinge pins out of oak post, doesn't put a scratch

59:22 Speaker 5: on the gates, knocks people down out there, it injures people.

59:29 Speaker 5: And we've had light ball activity, which that gets into

59:33 Speaker 5: a whole science the coloration of light balls and plasma.

59:39 Speaker 5: Some complastoids now and but plasma balls of light you

59:46 Speaker 5: can go into the science of the coloration of those things.

59:50 Speaker 5: We've had cryptids, a wide array of cryptids out there.

59:54 Speaker 5: You're talking three four pounds plus polar bear, slash sloth

1:00:02 Speaker 5: kind of critters. The property owners and we got a

1:00:05 Speaker 5: couple actually images photos of these things.

1:00:08 Speaker 1: We got out, took physical trace.

1:00:11 Speaker 5: We found We pulled off sixteen inch long white hairs

1:00:15 Speaker 5: off a fence and took poor tracks, cast the tracks

1:00:19 Speaker 5: out there, sent these in for DNA and microscopy. The

1:00:24 Speaker 5: hair samples come back, no, no match, So it does happen.

1:00:31 Speaker 5: We had bigfoot sightings near there.

1:00:34 Speaker 1: Now.

1:00:34 Speaker 5: Of course we know there's not a breeding population of

1:00:38 Speaker 5: these critters like Ted called them out there, but when

1:00:41 Speaker 5: they come across the dimensional boundary and they're there there

1:00:45 Speaker 5: is realists you and I and they exhibit force. Lay

1:00:48 Speaker 5: down physical trace, right, you have that we had structured

1:00:54 Speaker 5: craft out there various kinds cylindrical, black tubular crafts, you know,

1:01:01 Speaker 5: two three hundred foot long.

1:01:03 Speaker 1: Property owners had seen disc shape, graft foot and all

1:01:10 Speaker 1: kind of cryptis again involved in this so and one

1:01:13 Speaker 1: abduction out there actually, so.

1:01:17 Speaker 4: Any any government, you know, like at Skinwalker, they'll see

1:01:23 Speaker 4: like black helicopters coming over. Without you know, going into

1:01:30 Speaker 4: too much detail, I know you want to kind of

1:01:32 Speaker 4: keep the place a little bit more secretive, But do

1:01:36 Speaker 4: you think that there's an operation by our government and

1:01:41 Speaker 4: that they know that that may be a hotspot?

1:01:46 Speaker 1: You know, we're we're quite aware that they know of

1:01:50 Speaker 1: the place.

1:01:51 Speaker 5: But do we ever do we think that there was

1:01:54 Speaker 5: ever any government involvement out there, or do we think

1:01:59 Speaker 5: they were actually watched in.

1:02:00 Speaker 1: Our back or did we have black helicopters or that

1:02:03 Speaker 1: sort of thing. We as far as we know, there wasn't.

1:02:07 Speaker 1: We never experienced that in any degree.

1:02:10 Speaker 5: And even when we addressed the microwave uh realm with this,

1:02:15 Speaker 5: that didn't damage to people.

1:02:18 Speaker 1: Uh myself included, I will tell you, and Ted.

1:02:21 Speaker 5: And other property owners. We recorded that quite frequently out there,

1:02:27 Speaker 5: and uh and we experienced you know, one point six

1:02:30 Speaker 5: giga hurts like they do it skin Walker.

1:02:36 Speaker 4: That was my next question was the infamous signal of

1:02:41 Speaker 4: one point six gigaards. You know, I I am so okay,

1:02:47 Speaker 4: I'm so fascinated with this. What do you think? What's

1:02:54 Speaker 4: what is going on there? Because that supposedly for Earth

1:02:59 Speaker 4: to space based communication, correct.

1:03:04 Speaker 1: Right right?

1:03:05 Speaker 5: And and you know in the course with skin Walker

1:03:10 Speaker 5: the ranch there is a military basis out there and

1:03:15 Speaker 5: at one point six actually happens to be involved in

1:03:18 Speaker 5: microwave communications if you get into it. So do I

1:03:23 Speaker 5: think there it's possible that that comes into play with them.

1:03:27 Speaker 1: It might. I don't personally think so, but it could.

1:03:31 Speaker 1: You have to look at all the options, you know.

1:03:34 Speaker 5: But in our case in Marley, I we have no

1:03:38 Speaker 5: military basis within any proximity the of Marley, and I

1:03:44 Speaker 5: don't think that was a source. And I will tell

1:03:47 Speaker 5: you because of damage to individuals out there when we

1:03:52 Speaker 5: filmed out there with Ben Hansen, you know on UFO

1:03:55 Speaker 5: Witness and if you want to see it, it's that

1:03:57 Speaker 5: episode is Nordic's in the que on UFO Witness and

1:04:04 Speaker 5: that night out there, and I felt in my obligation,

1:04:06 Speaker 5: I got a new piece of equipment that was devoted

1:04:10 Speaker 5: that was dedicated to microwave energy and three times and

1:04:14 Speaker 5: when we were out in the field in midnight, no

1:04:18 Speaker 5: power lines around, no vehicles, no aircraft. I had a

1:04:24 Speaker 5: meter that had audible and visual cues of a warning,

1:04:28 Speaker 5: and this thing went, you know, from green yellow the

1:04:31 Speaker 5: red spectrum three times for just a brief period. And

1:04:38 Speaker 5: we experienced that out there at that We got that

1:04:42 Speaker 5: on film on that episode. And now I do believe

1:04:46 Speaker 5: it was just telling me that this intelligence was letting.

1:04:50 Speaker 1: Me know in particular that it was still there.

1:04:53 Speaker 5: It was very capable of doing what it did and

1:04:57 Speaker 5: kind of let Marley, you know what at Skinwalker, what

1:05:01 Speaker 5: sets off the activity when they usually when.

1:05:03 Speaker 1: They dig in the ground, things bad things happened.

1:05:07 Speaker 5: And Marley, when you interject strangers or people that had

1:05:12 Speaker 5: never been there before, like they weren't familiar with these individuals,

1:05:17 Speaker 5: usually things it would show its hand. He didn't like

1:05:20 Speaker 5: that bad things would happen sometimes. So but I do

1:05:25 Speaker 5: believe that night with the microwave, it was letting me

1:05:29 Speaker 5: know that it was still there, it was capable of

1:05:31 Speaker 5: doing what it did before and as a warning.

1:05:36 Speaker 1: So and you know, six weeks after we got done

1:05:40 Speaker 1: filming there, I get a call that.

1:05:42 Speaker 5: Night from the property owner's family. The property owner had

1:05:46 Speaker 5: passed away, had a stroke and passed away out there,

1:05:50 Speaker 5: so they flew him into Saint Louis. He was still

1:05:55 Speaker 5: but he didn't make it. And so and let me

1:05:58 Speaker 5: tell you that broke uh, the property owner or site

1:06:01 Speaker 5: one that we were, we were within six weeks of

1:06:08 Speaker 5: filming on Beyond skin.

1:06:10 Speaker 1: Walker and they called it off. They called me and

1:06:13 Speaker 1: told me to cancel. And and believe me, when you

1:06:15 Speaker 1: when you get back to these people that are doing

1:06:17 Speaker 1: the production and six weeks before you're going to do

1:06:20 Speaker 1: something and you let them know it's off, they're not

1:06:23 Speaker 1: happy with you, and they weren't happy with me. But

1:06:28 Speaker 1: they need to understand.

1:06:30 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they need to understand that there's like, like

1:06:34 Speaker 4: you said, Mark, I mean perspective.

1:06:37 Speaker 6: Right.

1:06:38 Speaker 4: So another thing that's talked about it skin Walker is

1:06:43 Speaker 4: this hitgehiker kind of effect.

1:06:49 Speaker 2: Have you do you.

1:06:51 Speaker 4: Have you or anyone else that's been out there, do

1:06:55 Speaker 4: you think that you have brought something home.

1:07:01 Speaker 1: I never experienced that or had that at that time,

1:07:04 Speaker 1: and now now Ted actually did have that effect at home.

1:07:08 Speaker 1: He felt on a couple of visits when he got

1:07:11 Speaker 1: home he actually did bring something back with him like that.

1:07:16 Speaker 1: So it does happen, and it is very real.

1:07:19 Speaker 5: I was fortunate, and I do believe there's other reasons

1:07:22 Speaker 5: why at that time it didn't latch onto me, for

1:07:27 Speaker 5: lack of a better word, or I never experienced that

1:07:30 Speaker 5: to the degree that Ted did at that time.

1:07:32 Speaker 1: But it does happen, and it's very real.

1:07:35 Speaker 5: And there again, you always have to have in your

1:07:39 Speaker 5: mind what you're dealing with this intelligence, and you do

1:07:43 Speaker 5: have control over it. But if you relinquish that or

1:07:50 Speaker 5: you're not careful, it can't happen very easily. So I

1:07:54 Speaker 5: always tell people get involved in this, you know, and

1:07:57 Speaker 5: they think it's some fun and cute to do. I

1:08:01 Speaker 5: it is, but you always have to understand that you're

1:08:04 Speaker 5: dealing with an intelligence that if you do experience what

1:08:08 Speaker 5: you want, you you have to know that what you're

1:08:12 Speaker 5: dealing with, and it's nothing to play around with.

1:08:14 Speaker 4: Believe me, right right. Others have said this too, you know,

1:08:20 Speaker 4: with you know people like that, the people like doctor

1:08:24 Speaker 4: Greer who are using CE five and you know, they

1:08:31 Speaker 4: think all these beings are love light and you know, sugar,

1:08:35 Speaker 4: spice and everything nice. And when has that ever been

1:08:39 Speaker 4: the case ever. You know, I think it's I think

1:08:44 Speaker 4: it's naive and I think it's it's a very dangerous

1:08:48 Speaker 4: way to think that you know that they're just because

1:08:53 Speaker 4: they may be an advanced civilization, that that that they've

1:08:58 Speaker 4: grown past or advanced past hostility or malevolence. And I

1:09:06 Speaker 4: just I think that's a naive way to look at this.

1:09:10 Speaker 4: What's your take on the abduction phenomena?

1:09:14 Speaker 5: Well, and you know, there again, I just have to

1:09:17 Speaker 5: throw in that like doctor Stephen Greer, Uh, I believe

1:09:21 Speaker 5: you know, Bruce Whiteman had him years ago in a

1:09:25 Speaker 5: Moufon conference.

1:09:26 Speaker 1: Was one of his first lectures or exposure to the media.

1:09:30 Speaker 1: And I believe he was a trauma surgeon nature, but

1:09:35 Speaker 1: he's one of his first media appearances was Bruce Whiteman

1:09:39 Speaker 1: had him to speak at a Moufon conference at Saint Louis.

1:09:43 Speaker 1: So virtually most anybody you could.

1:09:46 Speaker 5: Name to me had their origin at one of their

1:09:49 Speaker 5: first exposures in Uh. Stephen Bassett, you know, was that

1:09:54 Speaker 5: friend of mine, and he was exposed, you know, Bruce

1:09:59 Speaker 5: had them speak and uh, and I got to meet

1:10:02 Speaker 5: doctor Carol Rawsen Werner Von Brown's assistant had.

1:10:06 Speaker 1: A move from a conference and.

1:10:09 Speaker 5: I spoke with her about von Bron's the false flag scenario,

1:10:13 Speaker 5: which is something I speak about now.

1:10:16 Speaker 1: But uh, but yeah, it's uh, the abduction, it does happen.

1:10:22 Speaker 5: It's not as frequently as I believe it's reported, but

1:10:25 Speaker 5: it absolutely is real and it happens. And and I've

1:10:30 Speaker 5: met abductees. I've you know, I've had I've talked to

1:10:36 Speaker 5: women that have spoke at move On conferences in Missouri

1:10:40 Speaker 5: that have lost you know, children, Uh, they feel have

1:10:44 Speaker 5: been abducted from you know, even from some cases from

1:10:48 Speaker 5: the womb and uh.

1:10:50 Speaker 1: And it was an absorption that that did did this,

1:10:53 Speaker 1: you know, in there, uh like, So, I mean it

1:10:57 Speaker 1: is real, and I mean.

1:10:59 Speaker 5: We I've seen I've been there behind the scenes with

1:11:02 Speaker 5: speakers like that, we're in tears, behind the scenes, didn't

1:11:06 Speaker 5: even want to go on and went out there and

1:11:10 Speaker 5: then they finally decided to make it public to help people.

1:11:14 Speaker 1: And so it is very real and it happens absolutely,

1:11:19 Speaker 1: and so it will. I have experienced that, you know with.

1:11:25 Speaker 4: People, right, why why would you think they would be

1:11:33 Speaker 4: Do you think it's kind of like what we do

1:11:36 Speaker 4: with with animals in the SERENGETI, you know, bag and tag,

1:11:41 Speaker 4: let them back out, you know, kind of monitor them

1:11:44 Speaker 4: or do you think there's something more sinister going on?

1:11:49 Speaker 1: You know, I absolutely believe. And this gets in the

1:11:53 Speaker 1: realms that really getting the touchy believe me, touchy areas.

1:11:58 Speaker 1: But there again, I believe a lot of it gets

1:12:01 Speaker 1: into biblical realms, and quite frankly, a lot of it

1:12:06 Speaker 1: is done and as we've seen in Marley Woods and Skinwalker,

1:12:10 Speaker 1: a lot of it is just used to instill fear

1:12:14 Speaker 1: as they control tool. Believe me, fear.

1:12:19 Speaker 5: Can control people in ways that nothing else works, and

1:12:23 Speaker 5: I've seen it done, and I believe, quite frankly, a

1:12:27 Speaker 5: lot of this is just it instills the spirit of confusion.

1:12:32 Speaker 5: They use fear, whether they use fear as a controlling

1:12:35 Speaker 5: factor or they feed of it in some ways, and

1:12:39 Speaker 5: so I believe in both instances that's true. But I

1:12:44 Speaker 5: think some of it's done just to use fear as

1:12:49 Speaker 5: an element of control. And even at that point, though,

1:12:53 Speaker 5: I will tell you that if people understand and realize

1:12:59 Speaker 5: even in that area, there have been I've.

1:13:02 Speaker 1: Exposed, been exposed to abductees that.

1:13:08 Speaker 5: Have known they come from a religious background, and they

1:13:13 Speaker 5: thought just as they were going to try something.

1:13:16 Speaker 4: You know.

1:13:17 Speaker 1: Uh, they have used.

1:13:20 Speaker 5: Actually, in some two instances I know of, they have

1:13:23 Speaker 5: used prayer as a medium to release themselves from the

1:13:27 Speaker 5: grips of these cases. And it worked for him and

1:13:32 Speaker 5: all else say at that point is I know of

1:13:34 Speaker 5: no other mechanism that people have used to put an

1:13:39 Speaker 5: end to one of these experiences, except there again, the

1:13:43 Speaker 5: religious aspect of this that has worked for some people.

1:13:47 Speaker 1: And but it's it's much more, much.

1:13:52 Speaker 5: More complex as Alan, Heinez said to Ted, And Ted

1:13:56 Speaker 5: actually had.

1:13:57 Speaker 1: A disagreement with Alan for this at times. But Ted

1:14:02 Speaker 1: said that.

1:14:04 Speaker 5: Ted told me this so many times, he said, Alan

1:14:07 Speaker 5: would tell him, he said, Ted, this is so much

1:14:09 Speaker 5: more complex than people know and believe. It's not as

1:14:13 Speaker 5: simple as a little gray alien coming from Alpha Centauri,

1:14:17 Speaker 5: you know, to meet mankind and enslave it.

1:14:22 Speaker 1: Uh.

1:14:23 Speaker 5: And Alan of course ended up in a religious aspect

1:14:26 Speaker 5: of this and uh, and I do believe that's where

1:14:29 Speaker 5: it goes. And uh, but that being said, uh, the

1:14:35 Speaker 5: human beings in that they get in that predicament, it's

1:14:40 Speaker 5: it is unbelievable and uh usually the outcome is not good,

1:14:46 Speaker 5: I will tell you. And as you're probably aware of

1:14:50 Speaker 5: a lot of the abductees, you know, uh, you know.

1:14:53 Speaker 4: Fir in the Sky, Yeah, Travis Wall, Travis, and yeah,

1:15:00 Speaker 4: they don't.

1:15:01 Speaker 5: You know, they did, they have not gained monetary they've

1:15:04 Speaker 5: made they they didn't become wealth getting gained wealth over this.

1:15:08 Speaker 1: These the witnesses in that case, they lost you know,

1:15:12 Speaker 1: some of them ended up divorcing.

1:15:16 Speaker 4: It.

1:15:16 Speaker 5: And more than not out of the abductees I've met,

1:15:21 Speaker 5: it's always been detrimental to their their life from then on.

1:15:25 Speaker 4: Yeah, but the negatives far outweigh the positives. If there

1:15:31 Speaker 4: are any you know, positive being you know, kind of

1:15:35 Speaker 4: loosely used here because you know, maybe their story becomes

1:15:42 Speaker 4: well known and you know, they're on podcasts. I've never

1:15:46 Speaker 4: paid a podcast guest, so you know, no one's making

1:15:50 Speaker 4: money off of that. The UFO lecture circuit. It's not

1:15:54 Speaker 4: like it's paying thousands and thousands of thousands. So again,

1:15:59 Speaker 4: I I'm inclined to agree with you, So I want

1:16:03 Speaker 4: to I want to circle back to something that you

1:16:04 Speaker 4: just said. Cal Rosen Carol someone who is fascinating her work,

1:16:12 Speaker 4: Like you said, she was an assistant Toner Werner von

1:16:16 Speaker 4: Braun who was brought to you that I you to

1:16:19 Speaker 4: the United States from Germany after World War Two via

1:16:25 Speaker 4: Operation paper Clip, given amnesty as well as a slew

1:16:29 Speaker 4: of other German scientists that the Soviet well the former

1:16:34 Speaker 4: Soviet Union, and the United States kind of divvied up

1:16:39 Speaker 4: to to advance their own agendas, whether it be you know,

1:16:44 Speaker 4: the space race or or the development of of of

1:16:49 Speaker 4: other weapons. So Werna von Braun, apparently on his deathbed,

1:16:58 Speaker 4: told Carol that the last flat, the last card that

1:17:04 Speaker 4: the US government would play would be this false flag

1:17:09 Speaker 4: deception of an alien invasion. And then you look around

1:17:13 Speaker 4: right now and you start asking was he right? What

1:17:20 Speaker 4: was it true? What's your take on not only the

1:17:26 Speaker 4: the von Brown warning, but what is happening today?

1:17:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, I will tell you that.

1:17:34 Speaker 5: And like I said, I met Carol one time at

1:17:38 Speaker 5: spend a couple hours with her at a lecture in

1:17:41 Speaker 5: Saint Louis. Bruce had her there and and she we

1:17:44 Speaker 5: talked in depth about his warning. And uh, and I

1:17:48 Speaker 5: will tell you there's when one common court.

1:17:50 Speaker 1: If I had to have anything through some of the

1:17:52 Speaker 1: top pufologists I've talked to an theologians, it always circled

1:17:58 Speaker 1: back to the fall Flag scenario. Now my take on

1:18:04 Speaker 1: it what.

1:18:04 Speaker 5: I've learned from these people virtually and here again like

1:18:09 Speaker 5: Bruce and Idea, we were on a much lower and

1:18:11 Speaker 5: I don't want to put myself into anywhere in the

1:18:14 Speaker 5: same room, whether even people like Rod Serling or Walt

1:18:18 Speaker 5: Disney or some of these people, but Walt Disney, Rod Serling,

1:18:23 Speaker 5: they were promised like we were having to start, you know,

1:18:27 Speaker 5: of information sharing with us, and and they went in

1:18:35 Speaker 5: worked with in government, you know, and started projects. And

1:18:38 Speaker 5: in the middle of a project, the government backed out

1:18:41 Speaker 5: with them. And I will say that especially like Rod Serling. Uh,

1:18:46 Speaker 5: he got so aggravated at this that he went on

1:18:49 Speaker 5: and you're probably aware of the of course Twilight Zone,

1:18:53 Speaker 5: the show he had, and he filmed an episode of

1:18:57 Speaker 5: this that I just it was his way and from

1:19:02 Speaker 5: people I talked with and knew him, it was his

1:19:05 Speaker 5: way of poking his finger in the government's eye. He

1:19:08 Speaker 5: made an episode called to Serve Man. Now, if you

1:19:13 Speaker 5: remember that episode, that's where the Aliens came to Earth.

1:19:19 Speaker 5: They wanted to share free energy, medical cures, weaponry, you

1:19:25 Speaker 5: name it, whatever we need it, food production. They were

1:19:31 Speaker 5: here to serve man and to give us things and

1:19:34 Speaker 5: it will all work out great. Now, in the movie,

1:19:38 Speaker 5: they taunted around this big book that they couldn't decipher,

1:19:42 Speaker 5: and at the very end, the scientists, the one guy

1:19:45 Speaker 5: is going up on the ship for a vacation on

1:19:47 Speaker 5: their planet and his assistant comes in yelling, screaming. They

1:19:52 Speaker 5: deciphered the book, and the book was to serve man

1:19:56 Speaker 5: It was a cookbook. Now, I don't pretend for an

1:20:00 Speaker 5: instant to say that's their motivation, what's gonna happen, But

1:20:04 Speaker 5: it's not far from that.

1:20:07 Speaker 6: Now.

1:20:08 Speaker 1: Full circle for me, from what I learned is the

1:20:13 Speaker 1: fake alien invasion.

1:20:15 Speaker 5: What that entails is at some point when mankind is

1:20:19 Speaker 5: at its lowest. And this is what I always believed.

1:20:21 Speaker 1: I thought.

1:20:22 Speaker 5: I thought it'd be the grid going out, some good

1:20:27 Speaker 5: nuclear holocaust, the disaster, the aliens. We're gonna so called aliens,

1:20:33 Speaker 5: We're gonna come save our bacon. When mankind was at

1:20:38 Speaker 5: its lowest it couldn't help itself. They would come whatever

1:20:43 Speaker 5: we needed, they would supply and give us. And let

1:20:46 Speaker 5: me tell you, their motivation was not our welfare. But

1:20:52 Speaker 5: that being said that when this occurs like that, their

1:20:58 Speaker 5: motivation is going to come. They are truly the interdimensional

1:21:04 Speaker 5: beings that come across the interdimensional boundary, and they don't

1:21:09 Speaker 5: have the authority to be here, but in doing this,

1:21:12 Speaker 5: they will have it the authority. And believe me, when

1:21:17 Speaker 5: they work a few miracles with their physics on that side,

1:21:23 Speaker 5: no one will question.

1:21:24 Speaker 1: What they're doing.

1:21:25 Speaker 5: And their their true goal is to enslave mankind and

1:21:30 Speaker 5: for us to look at them as as gods, and

1:21:33 Speaker 5: we will, I mean, there won't be anybody.

1:21:35 Speaker 1: If you question this, your own family is going to

1:21:38 Speaker 1: run you in and to be re educated. Uh, and

1:21:42 Speaker 1: that will happen.

1:21:43 Speaker 5: And now that being said, I never could figure out

1:21:48 Speaker 5: a scenario where this would happen without a natural disaster

1:21:54 Speaker 5: or something of the sort.

1:21:55 Speaker 1: And I still have a.

1:21:56 Speaker 5: Little bit few few friends that are in the intelligence

1:21:59 Speaker 5: that tell me things are friends of people that are

1:22:01 Speaker 5: in the intelligence. Yet and behind the scenes, I will

1:22:06 Speaker 5: share with you that the whole drone scenario, there's three

1:22:10 Speaker 5: sources of drones. There's the course, the hobbyists, the people

1:22:14 Speaker 5: that have drones that they think it's cute right now

1:22:17 Speaker 5: to get out and fly these things and get you know,

1:22:21 Speaker 5: throw as much.

1:22:24 Speaker 4: Right they want to be involved.

1:22:25 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, out there and The second source is our

1:22:30 Speaker 5: own government and what they are doing by this, and

1:22:33 Speaker 5: the reason they can't talk about it is it's twofold

1:22:37 Speaker 5: thing why they can't talk about this and won't. And

1:22:40 Speaker 5: believe me, you know members of our Senate and Congress

1:22:43 Speaker 5: have been in behind the door closed meetings and they

1:22:46 Speaker 5: come out angry that they won't they even they are

1:22:49 Speaker 5: not told anything. This is beyond the need to know,

1:22:55 Speaker 5: and they won't share anything with these and and that

1:22:59 Speaker 5: the reason behind that is one reason is that they

1:23:03 Speaker 5: truly are looking for radiological they're doing radiological surveys right now.

1:23:09 Speaker 1: They're looking for.

1:23:11 Speaker 5: Devices that are out there, in some cases radioactive materials.

1:23:16 Speaker 1: That are out there that could make a dirty bomb.

1:23:20 Speaker 5: And actually in some instant there's some devices that have

1:23:23 Speaker 5: gotten into our country that they know of, and they're

1:23:26 Speaker 5: looking for these things, which they feel that they can't

1:23:30 Speaker 5: talk about this it would cause a panic. And the

1:23:33 Speaker 5: other third source that is coming through in this drone technology.

1:23:39 Speaker 5: And when you hear about these things coming across there,

1:23:42 Speaker 5: you know the military and police are seeing fifty sixty

1:23:46 Speaker 5: of these things come from out at sea, seeing running

1:23:50 Speaker 5: lights come on, lights come on, then look simulating aircraft

1:23:56 Speaker 5: and a lot of these craft. The third source is

1:23:58 Speaker 5: actually the interdimensional source. Now, I truly believe from what

1:24:04 Speaker 5: I'm told that there is a relationship right now with

1:24:09 Speaker 5: these interdimensional beings that they're helping our military because they're

1:24:14 Speaker 5: not having much luck right now and they feel the

1:24:17 Speaker 5: clock is sticking. I do believe that the interdimensional beings

1:24:20 Speaker 5: are working with our government trying to locate these devices

1:24:27 Speaker 5: because they're concerned themselves about the nuclear devices. But there's

1:24:32 Speaker 5: a working relationship right now with our government, which jumping

1:24:36 Speaker 5: ahead there, there's the scenario I had never taken into

1:24:41 Speaker 5: consideration that is putting us right into the false flag time.

1:24:46 Speaker 5: Here we're having a relationship with these things, and at

1:24:49 Speaker 5: the proper time, if they work with our government and

1:24:52 Speaker 5: they help find these devices, it'll be the absolute perfect

1:24:58 Speaker 5: timing for the government to come forward say and say, yes,

1:25:02 Speaker 5: we have been at knowledge, we have let's say, craft

1:25:07 Speaker 5: not of this earth that we've been back engineering. And

1:25:11 Speaker 5: but these people are here there and believe me, they're

1:25:14 Speaker 5: more like us than us. Uh, they're not three headed

1:25:17 Speaker 5: green gray aliens. They're the gray aliens and all that

1:25:21 Speaker 5: they do exit they're the automatons, they're the worker bee.

1:25:25 Speaker 5: But the true aliens, so called alien the dimensional beings,

1:25:28 Speaker 5: are more like us than us. And when they release

1:25:32 Speaker 5: this information to the public and say, see what they've done,

1:25:35 Speaker 5: See for what they've saved us, See how.

1:25:38 Speaker 1: They be bad? Ah, that put it in a realm.

1:25:42 Speaker 5: That advanced my false flag scenario, and from what I've

1:25:46 Speaker 5: learned from others by leaps and bounds. So I do

1:25:50 Speaker 5: believe we're closer right now to the false false flag

1:25:54 Speaker 5: scenario coming down than I have ever dreamed of. But

1:26:00 Speaker 5: but we'll see how that all plays out.

1:26:03 Speaker 4: Right now, I do believe that you are what would

1:26:08 Speaker 4: be I mean, there's been ideas floated around, theories about

1:26:16 Speaker 4: why they would do such a thing. In your opinion,

1:26:23 Speaker 4: why would a false flag operation like this? What would

1:26:26 Speaker 4: be the end game to that? Why why do that?

1:26:33 Speaker 1: There? Again, I do believe, and everyone has to decide

1:26:37 Speaker 1: on their own.

1:26:37 Speaker 5: But with the data that I've seen and the people

1:26:41 Speaker 5: I've been around, which are way above my pay grade,

1:26:43 Speaker 5: believe me, I do believe that it is all.

1:26:47 Speaker 1: Biblical, and it is the end game.

1:26:51 Speaker 5: It is for enslaving mankind in various ways, and for

1:26:57 Speaker 5: us to look upon them one day as the gods

1:27:00 Speaker 5: that they feel they are, and they're not.

1:27:02 Speaker 1: They're not what they will pretend to be.

1:27:05 Speaker 5: And they do have the capabilities on this side to

1:27:08 Speaker 5: use their physics and work miracles and pull fire from

1:27:13 Speaker 5: the sky and whatever they want to do to enslave

1:27:17 Speaker 5: mankind onness end, and they'll put on a great dog

1:27:21 Speaker 5: and pony show for us, believe me, and no one

1:27:24 Speaker 5: will question this.

1:27:26 Speaker 1: But they are not aliens as they're going to be

1:27:28 Speaker 1: portrayed as.

1:27:30 Speaker 5: From a planet, you know, because there again interplanetary travel,

1:27:37 Speaker 5: and I know people get in they'll.

1:27:39 Speaker 1: Prove you a million ways. They think this is not true.

1:27:42 Speaker 1: But interplanetary with our physics, it's not possible.

1:27:48 Speaker 5: If they're twenty light years away, three hundred light years away,

1:27:54 Speaker 5: it's impossible for that race to contact us.

1:27:57 Speaker 1: But they are interdimensional and I it is all biblical.

1:28:04 Speaker 4: So what what that sounds like is mass deception, kind

1:28:12 Speaker 4: of anti christy if you if you look through a

1:28:17 Speaker 4: certain religious lens, right, if they're claiming to be God

1:28:22 Speaker 4: when they're not right that that that's essentially that sounds

1:28:27 Speaker 4: like the anti christ right is a false God.

1:28:33 Speaker 5: You put your finger right on it and you've come

1:28:35 Speaker 5: away where so many people won't and can't see that light.

1:28:40 Speaker 5: And uh, but you're exactly right that and you know,

1:28:44 Speaker 5: at this point I always have to say, there again,

1:28:48 Speaker 5: I look at the Bible is one of the greatest

1:28:51 Speaker 5: scientific documents from man's history that's ever been and ever

1:28:57 Speaker 5: you know, survived, everything has survived, and there's a reason

1:29:00 Speaker 5: for that. But it is a book of scientific fact

1:29:07 Speaker 5: and documentation. If you want to put the biblical the

1:29:11 Speaker 5: religious aspect of it out, that's your you know option.

1:29:16 Speaker 1: But even if you do that, you can't deny the

1:29:20 Speaker 1: data that's in it and the degree of accuracy it's

1:29:25 Speaker 1: had over the years. And it is it is in

1:29:30 Speaker 1: the Book of Revelation. I will tell you it wasn't.

1:29:34 Speaker 5: So many things in that had couldn't be understood till

1:29:37 Speaker 5: now that the realm we're in, and so much of

1:29:40 Speaker 5: it makes sense now. And so you know, even in Ezekield,

1:29:45 Speaker 5: the wheel and the reference to the bronze discs, the

1:29:49 Speaker 5: craft in that, it's just incredible and unbelievable the accuracy there.

1:29:56 Speaker 1: And you you, you're exactly right that correlation to the

1:29:59 Speaker 1: ant Christ. Uh. And they'll come and believe me, these

1:30:03 Speaker 1: things are gonna come. People are expecting the anti Christ

1:30:08 Speaker 1: or Satan to come as this fire breathing harm demon.

1:30:12 Speaker 1: He's going to be exactly the opposite of that. He's

1:30:15 Speaker 1: going to be the most benign, sweet, giving, loving person.

1:30:18 Speaker 5: He's he's trying to play the role of Christ, and

1:30:21 Speaker 5: he's going to be here to share love. And but

1:30:26 Speaker 5: believe me, you are it's not His motivation is not

1:30:30 Speaker 5: our welfare and this race of interdimensional beings. And you

1:30:35 Speaker 5: can correlate this to the fallen angels even you know, yes, yes,

1:30:40 Speaker 5: it's it's all one and the same. And and we

1:30:44 Speaker 5: really believe that so much of this, uh, and I

1:30:47 Speaker 5: just you know, I have.

1:30:49 Speaker 1: To go back.

1:30:49 Speaker 5: I've got friends that research Bigfoot, and I will tell

1:30:55 Speaker 5: you in the beginning, they'd be out and they take DNA,

1:30:59 Speaker 5: they take SAM and when they would do this, when

1:31:03 Speaker 5: they find hair, they do DNA miochondria and not their

1:31:08 Speaker 5: early days, not so accurate that the DNA work. But

1:31:11 Speaker 5: whenever they did this, they would come back and there'd

1:31:14 Speaker 5: be a little bit of human DNA in it, you know,

1:31:17 Speaker 5: or a lot. They'd say the experts to throw it out.

1:31:20 Speaker 5: They'd say, oh, cross contamination, it's no good. Well, then

1:31:25 Speaker 5: over the years. They were trained people out there. They

1:31:29 Speaker 5: knew how to take sampling, how not to contaminate it

1:31:32 Speaker 5: by three different methods, and it would still come back.

1:31:36 Speaker 5: A large part of this it had even stronger human

1:31:39 Speaker 5: DNA in it. Now there again the Fallen Angels, you know,

1:31:44 Speaker 5: the nephil the remnants of the Nephilim interdimensional and that

1:31:49 Speaker 5: explains the Bigfoot sightings that even the Native Americans say,

1:31:53 Speaker 5: the Bigfoot, you know that they actually fought, they had

1:31:56 Speaker 5: battles with. They said, these things were most of the woods.

1:32:00 Speaker 5: They could come and go through the interdimensional boundaries.

1:32:04 Speaker 1: On a whim. So you know when you're out there

1:32:08 Speaker 1: trying to track a Bigfoot and that you're never going

1:32:11 Speaker 1: to get ahead of these things. They have that capability.

1:32:13 Speaker 5: Now, if they are the remnant of the Nephilum through

1:32:17 Speaker 5: man breading with the fallen Angels, which I believe they are,

1:32:20 Speaker 5: and of course this gets into the giants, which.

1:32:23 Speaker 1: There is absolutely evidence of this physical proof. They have

1:32:29 Speaker 1: skeletal mass they have, you know, so it does exist

1:32:36 Speaker 1: and it's real, believe me, it's not stories made up

1:32:39 Speaker 1: in a comic book.

1:32:41 Speaker 5: It is all real and biblical. And there again the

1:32:44 Speaker 5: Bible speaks of this and it's accurate. So, but you're

1:32:49 Speaker 5: dealing with those intelligence and the spiritual realm that is there.

1:32:54 Speaker 1: And truly it truly comes from them, from the source life.

1:33:01 Speaker 4: And and you know, it's a lot of people when

1:33:06 Speaker 4: they do or or like if they see uh. There's

1:33:12 Speaker 4: been many accounts where bigfoot have been seen and then

1:33:18 Speaker 4: you know a UFO moments later, and you know, you start,

1:33:24 Speaker 4: you know, you never want to draw too many conclusions,

1:33:28 Speaker 4: but again, what's what's going on there? What?

1:33:33 Speaker 6: What?

1:33:33 Speaker 1: What are the what? Why?

1:33:35 Speaker 4: Why are they seen together? Why?

1:33:38 Speaker 2: Why?

1:33:39 Speaker 4: Yeah, it just there's so many more questions the further

1:33:43 Speaker 4: you start digging. And that's why I think a lot

1:33:45 Speaker 4: of people get frustrated with this topic, is you come

1:33:48 Speaker 4: up with so many more questions than you do answers.

1:33:51 Speaker 4: But the it's the questions that you do come.

1:33:54 Speaker 1: Up with.

1:33:56 Speaker 4: There they they have challenged myself to look beyond the

1:34:02 Speaker 4: black and white quote unquote uh world that that we're

1:34:06 Speaker 4: taught that we live in. And and now I'm able

1:34:10 Speaker 4: to see, you know that there's a lot more gray.

1:34:13 Speaker 4: So I think once we open up to these ideas,

1:34:17 Speaker 4: you know that we're not alone, that we're you know

1:34:20 Speaker 4: that we've probably never been alone, and that these beings,

1:34:26 Speaker 4: you know, whether it's the God of the Bible, the Nephelins,

1:34:32 Speaker 4: or all this stuff is based in some sort of reality,

1:34:40 Speaker 4: and I think that will be that that itself will

1:34:43 Speaker 4: be hard for people to to grapple with that the

1:34:46 Speaker 4: Bible is is factual, if you if that makes sense, right?

1:34:57 Speaker 5: And I've got friends that just can't deal with that,

1:34:59 Speaker 5: you know, And I lost friends in uthology, good researchers

1:35:03 Speaker 5: that I don't want to say they're atheists, but they

1:35:07 Speaker 5: lean that way, and believe me, they don't like me anymore.

1:35:12 Speaker 1: When I went into this realm, and.

1:35:13 Speaker 5: Quite frankly, where I was at one time, I wouldn't

1:35:16 Speaker 5: have liked me, right, I you know, I wouldn't even

1:35:19 Speaker 5: talk to somebody that went where I do now. But

1:35:23 Speaker 5: I go where like Ted taught me, you've got to

1:35:24 Speaker 5: go where the data leads. And that's where it's led

1:35:28 Speaker 5: me to believe. And I can't argue with anything I've

1:35:32 Speaker 5: seen in that realm, and quite frankly, it's the best

1:35:35 Speaker 5: explanations and the only thing I can put my finger

1:35:38 Speaker 5: on that makes any sense in this whole field. The

1:35:41 Speaker 5: spiritual realm of this and uh, but the cryptid, the

1:35:46 Speaker 5: spiritual euthology, it's all comes from the same source, I

1:35:50 Speaker 5: will tell you.

1:35:51 Speaker 1: And and some people who don't want to believe that.

1:35:54 Speaker 4: I would agree. I wholeheartedly would agree because you know,

1:36:00 Speaker 4: I'm in Massachusetts and I grew up next to a

1:36:03 Speaker 4: road that was haunted. Uh, some weird bad stuff happened

1:36:09 Speaker 4: there where some nuns were hanged for practicing witchcraft. So

1:36:15 Speaker 4: you know they were alleged to hout that road. I

1:36:20 Speaker 4: grew up in, like I said, Massachusetts, not so the

1:36:23 Speaker 4: Boston area. Obviously that leads you right to thinking about

1:36:26 Speaker 4: the witch trials, right, and the greed and the land

1:36:31 Speaker 4: grab that happened there. And also the Bridgewater Triangle is

1:36:36 Speaker 4: is is in Massachusetts? All these places have some one

1:36:43 Speaker 4: thing in common, mass atrocity or atrocities committed by man

1:36:53 Speaker 4: on the Do you think that because ghosts that's like

1:36:59 Speaker 4: one thing, right? So the ghosts or the app that

1:37:04 Speaker 4: ghostly apparitions and stuff that seems to be where I

1:37:09 Speaker 4: have a hard time grasping. Do you think that ghosts

1:37:16 Speaker 4: are are real but more of a of an echo?

1:37:21 Speaker 4: So I bring this up and I'll backtrack a little

1:37:25 Speaker 4: bit here the King Phillips War happens, and it happens

1:37:31 Speaker 4: all throughout the East, the New England region, Bridgewater Triangle

1:37:37 Speaker 4: especially so mass atrocity there, right, human killing human so

1:37:44 Speaker 4: and in a lot of these hot spots, Skinwalker Ranch

1:37:47 Speaker 4: right that the tribes we're enslaving each other. Another one

1:37:52 Speaker 4: puts a curse on this one. Do you think that

1:37:55 Speaker 4: the land holds some sort of memory of a like

1:37:59 Speaker 4: like an echo, because that's what I see in all

1:38:04 Speaker 4: these locations, all these hot spots. It's like the land

1:38:08 Speaker 4: is holding some sort of resonant frequency that allows the

1:38:12 Speaker 4: dimensional barrier to be fittest.

1:38:16 Speaker 5: Yeah, I absolutely do, and I do believe in there's

1:38:21 Speaker 5: energy residual that in some instance there's some things that

1:38:25 Speaker 5: can be explained by that, the ability of energy to

1:38:29 Speaker 5: be maintained or certain conditions in that area.

1:38:33 Speaker 1: But I will tell you that even.

1:38:36 Speaker 5: Here again biblically, the explanation is, you know, for ghost

1:38:45 Speaker 5: and I've seen it myself, there are possession is real.

1:38:48 Speaker 1: It does happen.

1:38:49 Speaker 5: Again, not as often as what some people think, but

1:38:53 Speaker 5: it does happen. Now when you get into ghost in

1:38:55 Speaker 5: the paranormal, I will tell you there you have to

1:38:59 Speaker 5: be careful again because just like these things portray themselves

1:39:03 Speaker 5: as gray aliens or reptoids or right, you know, people

1:39:10 Speaker 5: that are ghost hunter's paranormal. They go into a structure

1:39:14 Speaker 5: looking for certain things and there again, this intelligence, let's

1:39:21 Speaker 5: call it, has the ability to make you to whatever

1:39:25 Speaker 5: you're looking for.

1:39:26 Speaker 1: It will be.

1:39:27 Speaker 5: And I did see an explanation of this on one

1:39:31 Speaker 5: show on TV one time with I Believe was the

1:39:34 Speaker 5: daughter of the original ghost Hunters. They had their own

1:39:37 Speaker 5: show and she went out with her partner and before

1:39:41 Speaker 5: they entered the house, and I picked up on this.

1:39:44 Speaker 5: It was I always wanted them to try this before

1:39:48 Speaker 5: they went in the investigation.

1:39:50 Speaker 1: She had came up with this theory on.

1:39:52 Speaker 5: Her own and it was great, she said, before we

1:39:55 Speaker 5: go in there, and she built this whole scenario in

1:39:58 Speaker 5: her mind. She said, they made up this fake accident.

1:40:01 Speaker 5: The whole scenario was wrong. They made up names of

1:40:05 Speaker 5: the individuals they were going to talk to. They made

1:40:08 Speaker 5: up the accident was fake. But they did this before

1:40:12 Speaker 5: they went into the property. They go into the property

1:40:15 Speaker 5: and they start experiencing things what they thought was entities,

1:40:18 Speaker 5: and they'd ask, are you so and so that came

1:40:22 Speaker 5: and of course the undity would say that, yes, they're

1:40:25 Speaker 5: so and so, and did you have this terrible tragic

1:40:28 Speaker 5: death out here, you know, in front of the building

1:40:32 Speaker 5: car accident I think it was, And they let them

1:40:35 Speaker 5: on to believe that absolutely they were involved in that

1:40:38 Speaker 5: car accident, but they were the ghost of these people

1:40:41 Speaker 5: that died out there, and they went through the whole

1:40:44 Speaker 5: thing show and they came out and they knew what

1:40:48 Speaker 5: they were experiencing, that paranormal experience were real. But they

1:40:53 Speaker 5: virtually pulled the leg of these entities in that instance

1:40:56 Speaker 5: that everything was fictitious. And of course he's at that

1:41:02 Speaker 5: instant that investigation. Uh, it came across that, you know,

1:41:08 Speaker 5: everything they were looking for they found virtually in that house, So.

1:41:14 Speaker 1: You do have that and uh, it was an ingenious

1:41:19 Speaker 1: way to prove this.

1:41:20 Speaker 5: And I just wish they had to maintain that line

1:41:22 Speaker 5: of thought on further investigations, but they actually they kind

1:41:27 Speaker 5: of forgot about that then later on. But but it

1:41:31 Speaker 5: did prove a great point that these things have so

1:41:34 Speaker 5: many people, the Native Americans and so many people have.

1:41:40 Speaker 1: Terminus the tricksters, you know, Uh, and that's truly what

1:41:45 Speaker 1: they are.

1:41:45 Speaker 5: They are the tricksters, they will be whatever you're looking

1:41:48 Speaker 5: for at any time in any way.

1:41:51 Speaker 1: They had that capability, so.

1:41:55 Speaker 4: That that could account for why people, you know, they

1:42:03 Speaker 4: see like you said, you know, if they're cold, let's

1:42:08 Speaker 4: say they're not. They're not from the United States, they're

1:42:12 Speaker 4: from China.

1:42:16 Speaker 6: There.

1:42:17 Speaker 4: You know, whatever their mythos is, you know, they're more

1:42:21 Speaker 4: likely to see an incarnation of that than something that

1:42:26 Speaker 4: would come from Christianity or you know whatever. So again,

1:42:33 Speaker 4: it makes sense that they would alter themselves ultimately being

1:42:38 Speaker 4: the same thing that trickster and you know, kind of

1:42:44 Speaker 4: conforming to you know what this person's uh preconceived notions

1:42:50 Speaker 4: are about it right to lean into that, right.

1:42:56 Speaker 6: And you know.

1:42:59 Speaker 1: It goes Little Father in my own mind, uh.

1:43:05 Speaker 5: In some of these paranormal events, you know, you always

1:43:08 Speaker 5: come across and a lot of times there'll be children

1:43:13 Speaker 5: involved in it, and you know, children will die a

1:43:16 Speaker 5: tragic death. And I in my own mind and biblically,

1:43:21 Speaker 5: one of the most precious things, that innocence that a

1:43:25 Speaker 5: child has is one of the things that's guarded the

1:43:28 Speaker 5: most and the most profound. Worst thing you can ever

1:43:31 Speaker 5: do is hurt a child or that innocent and you

1:43:34 Speaker 5: get into these cases, whether it be traumatic death of

1:43:39 Speaker 5: children and a fire or murder, and the people going

1:43:44 Speaker 5: in investigating us in the paranormal, the ghost hunt, they'll

1:43:48 Speaker 5: come across they'll have what they believe as children. They're

1:43:53 Speaker 5: they're lost, they're trapped in these homes. These children, you know,

1:43:56 Speaker 5: when they died, they couldn't leave because of traumatic death.

1:43:58 Speaker 5: And you know, my own mind, I truly believe if

1:44:04 Speaker 5: a supreme being would leave children's souls trapped in a

1:44:10 Speaker 5: building like that for eternity, I wouldn't even want to

1:44:14 Speaker 5: know that supreme being, you know, I wouldn't even deal

1:44:18 Speaker 5: with that kind of mentality.

1:44:20 Speaker 1: And I know that's not true.

1:44:22 Speaker 5: Once you depart these and you know, here again, we're

1:44:26 Speaker 5: in a dimensional interdimensionals, we're interdimensional beings ourselves.

1:44:31 Speaker 1: When we leave this show, we're in the other dimension.

1:44:35 Speaker 4: I'm glad you said it, because if we're if if

1:44:40 Speaker 4: some of the stuff that's being said in the UFO

1:44:42 Speaker 4: community is true, right, like soul contracts or whatever, that

1:44:47 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, that doesn't leave room for ghosts. That means

1:44:51 Speaker 4: we go, we don't stay.

1:44:54 Speaker 5: That would You're exactly right, And Biblically it says you know,

1:44:59 Speaker 5: when we depart this clay pot, we're back where we

1:45:03 Speaker 5: come from. Our spirit is in that other side, the

1:45:06 Speaker 5: other dimension, and we're not meant to come back here.

1:45:11 Speaker 1: So I do believe in.

1:45:14 Speaker 5: Rare instance that our mentality is given the capability to

1:45:19 Speaker 5: share things in touch.

1:45:20 Speaker 1: Upon our loved ones in some instance.

1:45:23 Speaker 5: And but that's very rare, And it's not like it's

1:45:26 Speaker 5: trapped here for eternity on earth, and it's it's just

1:45:30 Speaker 5: the minute we leave this shell, we're back where it

1:45:34 Speaker 5: came from and we're not trapped. And that's why, especially

1:45:37 Speaker 5: what children is involved, that bothers me so much.

1:45:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, these children are not trapped for eternity, and they

1:45:44 Speaker 1: try and because they show them a light, they try

1:45:46 Speaker 1: to get them to get out of I just can't

1:45:49 Speaker 1: believe that the spirits of these little ones are you know,

1:45:54 Speaker 1: they're gone, like you said, the minute they die and

1:45:58 Speaker 1: they leave that traumatic death, they're in a in a world,

1:46:01 Speaker 1: they're in a presence of an ever loving God.

1:46:05 Speaker 6: That and being that.

1:46:09 Speaker 5: It's where they should be and they wouldn't be kept

1:46:12 Speaker 5: in I mean hell.

1:46:17 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I'm sorry again, sorry, we have a little

1:46:20 Speaker 4: bit of a delay. I'm not I'm not trying. I

1:46:23 Speaker 4: don't try to cut them off, but well, no, people

1:46:27 Speaker 4: in the comments, Tom, they ridicule me, and it's and

1:46:33 Speaker 4: it's sometimes it really is the lag when the virtual

1:46:37 Speaker 4: I never mean to interrupt somebody. I agree with you

1:46:43 Speaker 4: so much in this, in this because okay, so we

1:46:49 Speaker 4: look at this from and I want to really flesh

1:46:52 Speaker 4: this out because it always bothered me, this whole notion

1:46:56 Speaker 4: of of if we're going to look at it the

1:47:01 Speaker 4: way that we're looking at it, which seems to be

1:47:04 Speaker 4: the most in my mind, the most it it explains

1:47:09 Speaker 4: the most right because the extra transferal hypothesis it leaves

1:47:13 Speaker 4: it doesn't explain everything. It leaves so much room for error.

1:47:16 Speaker 4: It doesn't truly make sense that the distances are too far.

1:47:22 Speaker 4: I don't I don't think there's not life on other planets.

1:47:25 Speaker 4: I just don't think we can get there the same

1:47:27 Speaker 4: reason they can't get here. But interdimensional that's a whole

1:47:30 Speaker 4: different story.

1:47:32 Speaker 1: That.

1:47:35 Speaker 4: And then, like you said, our bodies right are shells.

1:47:39 Speaker 4: They contain our essence. And when we leave this world,

1:47:45 Speaker 4: we go back to the you know, the source God,

1:47:51 Speaker 4: if you know. I know some people don't like to

1:47:53 Speaker 4: call it that, but you know, we'll call it the

1:47:57 Speaker 4: source for this case. So many people talk about this

1:48:03 Speaker 4: in the UFO community and then then they start talking

1:48:07 Speaker 4: about ghosts and stuff, and I'm like, wait a second,

1:48:10 Speaker 4: doesn't add up because if we if we sign a

1:48:14 Speaker 4: like say we sign a soul contract before we come here,

1:48:17 Speaker 4: well then we're not gonna like it's you see what

1:48:19 Speaker 4: I'm saying. It just it never added up, the ghostly part.

1:48:23 Speaker 4: So what I've always thought ghosts might be is either

1:48:27 Speaker 4: an echo or again it's that trickster element.

1:48:35 Speaker 1: Yeah, it absolutely is.

1:48:37 Speaker 5: And you know, and like I said, there again, I

1:48:41 Speaker 5: I know so many people, and like I said, you know,

1:48:44 Speaker 5: I was a tricky It broke my heart when I

1:48:46 Speaker 5: was showed how the physics the math just doesn't work

1:48:50 Speaker 5: for interplanetary travel much less even even I've had it.

1:48:55 Speaker 1: Explain where interplanetary communication. Yes, that's why impossible.

1:49:02 Speaker 5: Uh if we did pick up something that rate, that

1:49:05 Speaker 5: culture would be long gone by the time we picked

1:49:08 Speaker 5: up their message.

1:49:09 Speaker 1: And uh so it just doesn't make its not practical.

1:49:12 Speaker 1: We'll never attain light speed, which other people will say

1:49:16 Speaker 1: we will, but uh, you know, I don't let me

1:49:21 Speaker 1: approved it.

1:49:22 Speaker 5: And uh, but and there again, if we did attain

1:49:25 Speaker 5: light speed, that wouldn't be enough because it's an expanding universe,

1:49:29 Speaker 5: and like they said, some of the universe is traveling.

1:49:32 Speaker 1: At almost the speed of light itself. So how are

1:49:35 Speaker 1: you going to catch up with it?

1:49:36 Speaker 4: You're never it will never happen. I don't think that

1:49:40 Speaker 4: we're supposed to go faster than the speed of light. No,

1:49:45 Speaker 4: I don't think it's. Like I said, I'm with you.

1:49:47 Speaker 4: I don't think it is actually possible. And people don't realize.

1:49:53 Speaker 4: But if you're moving at the speed of light, let's

1:49:56 Speaker 4: say for some reason you were able to do it,

1:50:00 Speaker 4: you hit a tiny, tiny miliscopic piece of space debris boom,

1:50:10 Speaker 4: your craft is destroyed, obliterated.

1:50:16 Speaker 5: Absolutely, and then you're not even addressing like if you

1:50:20 Speaker 5: would come upon where your your goal is, your destination,

1:50:24 Speaker 5: you have to decelerate, and the amount of energy, the

1:50:28 Speaker 5: amount of energy to do that exceeds what you you.

1:50:32 Speaker 4: Know, Yeah, it's ludicrous. I believe I've never I've actually

1:50:44 Speaker 4: never thought about that aspect of it, that you'd have

1:50:47 Speaker 4: to slow down.

1:50:48 Speaker 1: And I'm not smart enough. I'm not smart enough with

1:50:54 Speaker 1: these concepts. This is stuff that I learned. I was

1:50:57 Speaker 1: schooled by these guys astrophysicist and they are physicists I met,

1:51:01 Speaker 1: and believe me, I'm not going to argue with them.

1:51:03 Speaker 5: And I mean this broke my heart when I was

1:51:07 Speaker 5: a lot younger than I am now because I wanted

1:51:09 Speaker 5: Star Trek. I mean I wanted I was waiting for

1:51:11 Speaker 5: the yeah, the starships and all that. And when I

1:51:15 Speaker 5: learned the math and the physics, just say no, and

1:51:20 Speaker 5: you can't argue with that.

1:51:22 Speaker 4: Nope, nope. Uh So, now let me ask you, this

1:51:33 Speaker 4: interdimensional travel would lend credence to the multi world theory. Maybe,

1:51:42 Speaker 4: I don't know, maybe because dimensionality could be completely different

1:51:50 Speaker 4: than we could even wrap our mind around. But what

1:51:54 Speaker 4: do you think about the many worlds theory like the

1:51:57 Speaker 4: infinite Earth's because that intrigues me. I don't know. Again,

1:52:03 Speaker 4: I think it's an oversimplification, But what's your take on that?

1:52:12 Speaker 4: That thatspep it.

1:52:15 Speaker 5: I absolutely believe you know, in my mind, the more

1:52:20 Speaker 5: that you prove of creation, it means a greater creator.

1:52:25 Speaker 5: I absolutely believe on that other side of the dimension,

1:52:28 Speaker 5: we're not meant to be on anything and everything is.

1:52:31 Speaker 1: Possible, and I mean absolutely anything. Uh there are no

1:52:34 Speaker 1: boundaries because you're dealing in that realm. And that's why

1:52:38 Speaker 1: we're not meant.

1:52:39 Speaker 5: We were put here in control of this side and

1:52:42 Speaker 5: given the authority, and we were not meant like call

1:52:46 Speaker 5: it the prime directive, whatever will you will, Wed were

1:52:50 Speaker 5: meant not to have interference in our development, which there

1:52:55 Speaker 5: again the call me t call him fallen angels have done.

1:53:00 Speaker 5: And so we've come across technologies we truly weren't ready

1:53:04 Speaker 5: for our times. And but you know, it gets into

1:53:13 Speaker 5: again the physics of it all.

1:53:14 Speaker 1: And I just believe that.

1:53:17 Speaker 4: And you know I.

1:53:20 Speaker 5: Had people and here again, had I not been exposed

1:53:24 Speaker 5: to people like Ted Phillips, who actually with Alan Heinik,

1:53:30 Speaker 5: one time Ted was exposed to now I'm not going

1:53:34 Speaker 5: to say reverse engineering, but actually one craft, call him

1:53:40 Speaker 5: the sport model, whatever you want. One time when Ted

1:53:44 Speaker 5: thought that Alan was holding back material from Alan took

1:53:48 Speaker 5: him on a certain Air Force base one weekend and

1:53:51 Speaker 5: set Ted in one place between two hangars, and Ted

1:53:54 Speaker 5: was there and.

1:53:56 Speaker 1: Out he's seen.

1:53:57 Speaker 5: Came a twenty foot disc, motionless, noiseless, came out, hovered,

1:54:06 Speaker 5: no noise, no sign, and propulsion and left and Alan

1:54:11 Speaker 5: came back and actually put his hand on Ted's shoulder

1:54:14 Speaker 5: and said, have you've seen enough?

1:54:15 Speaker 1: Ted? And then Alan took him in actually showed him

1:54:19 Speaker 1: some crash debris. So Ted, I mean, and I believe

1:54:24 Speaker 1: he's one individual I know that had experienced it, and

1:54:28 Speaker 1: I believe it would that that's what happened. So I

1:54:36 Speaker 1: do believe that, and it happens. And people ask me, well,

1:54:39 Speaker 1: why don't we have a fleet of these things around?

1:54:41 Speaker 5: And the way I had to explained to me by

1:54:44 Speaker 5: Ted and another gentleman named Ray Stanford, which I don't

1:54:47 Speaker 5: know if you ever heard of that name, but if

1:54:50 Speaker 5: you haven't, I've looked that up. He worked with the

1:54:53 Speaker 5: government on back engineering that wrote a book called the

1:54:58 Speaker 5: Secral Saucer and the Pentagon Clause It.

1:55:02 Speaker 1: So he did back engineering and I met him, and

1:55:06 Speaker 1: I will tell you that the reason we don't have

1:55:09 Speaker 1: a fleet of these things around we try to back

1:55:12 Speaker 1: engineer them and replicate we do have a few, two

1:55:15 Speaker 1: or three of these that are intact that work we

1:55:18 Speaker 1: have possession of.

1:55:20 Speaker 5: But the reason we don't make a fleet of these

1:55:22 Speaker 5: things and have a bunch of them is that there's

1:55:24 Speaker 5: three key elements in them, and one particular element is

1:55:30 Speaker 5: like ten times heavier than gold wed and it's like

1:55:35 Speaker 5: one hundredfold better than our best superconductor here that can

1:55:39 Speaker 5: do anti gravitational propulsion, you know, without cryogenics because of

1:55:44 Speaker 5: the nature of the material. And unfortunately people say, well,

1:55:47 Speaker 5: why don't we have that, Well, three of these elements,

1:55:51 Speaker 5: one in particular, aren't on this side of the dimension.

1:55:54 Speaker 1: It's on that side. So when I had that explained

1:55:59 Speaker 1: to me that, in my mind, that.

1:56:01 Speaker 5: Totally explains why we don't have this technology to a

1:56:05 Speaker 5: larger degree. So, and there have been attempts to go

1:56:08 Speaker 5: around that, but unsuccessful, mostly because of the requirements again

1:56:13 Speaker 5: of energy involved. So if we ain't got it here,

1:56:18 Speaker 5: we can't use it.

1:56:22 Speaker 4: Makes sense right? Uh So okay, and so one of

1:56:28 Speaker 4: the last things that we probably have time for, uh,

1:56:32 Speaker 4: I want to talk to you about you brought you

1:56:37 Speaker 4: It's ironic that you just brought it up. The case

1:56:41 Speaker 4: of Sakoro. Obviously this was a case that changed Jay

1:56:48 Speaker 4: Allen heydek Uh fundamentally. I believe it changed his view

1:56:54 Speaker 4: from a from from a skeptic to you know, a

1:56:59 Speaker 4: true believer that that something happened. But you also had

1:57:03 Speaker 4: mentioned Ted Phillips and you know way uh physical traits,

1:57:10 Speaker 4: three pod extensions. Are you talking about Sacoro?

1:57:16 Speaker 5: Yeah, that was one of the key one of the plays.

1:57:19 Speaker 5: You know, Ted was involved in that, and Ray Stanford

1:57:23 Speaker 5: was involved there. Ted was with Ray and Allan there

1:57:26 Speaker 5: and of course they got to interview Lonnie Za Morris

1:57:29 Speaker 5: and the whole thing. And and actually I was so privileged.

1:57:34 Speaker 5: Years later Ted took on one we were on the

1:57:38 Speaker 5: speaking engagement uh at ASTech New Mexico on the crash

1:57:44 Speaker 5: site there, and we had Stan Freeman there with us.

1:57:47 Speaker 5: But on we went actually Ted revisited with us Secorol

1:57:51 Speaker 5: and actually they laid a stone ring around one of

1:57:55 Speaker 5: the landing pot indentations there and Ted actually found that

1:58:00 Speaker 5: ring and showed us that. And it was so incredible

1:58:04 Speaker 5: to be there with Ted, somebody that was actually there

1:58:06 Speaker 5: in the initial investigation. I was so thankful for that moment.

1:58:11 Speaker 5: And but and Ray Stanford I got to meet and

1:58:15 Speaker 5: spent time with him in Maryland.

1:58:17 Speaker 1: Uh. He's an amazing man that did back engineering and uh,

1:58:22 Speaker 1: but uh that was yeah, that was the case. That

1:58:26 Speaker 1: was that didn't more. I'd say to convince.

1:58:30 Speaker 4: People, well, so can you can you tell people the

1:58:36 Speaker 4: story for people who don't know well so, so I

1:58:40 Speaker 4: think most people, most of my listeners will know the case.

1:58:44 Speaker 4: But do you know it well enough to tell it?

1:58:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll just give a quick synopsis. You know that

1:58:53 Speaker 1: that Lonnie's Morris was a patrol in there and he

1:58:58 Speaker 1: was going after a speeder and he got off on

1:59:02 Speaker 1: the county road.

1:59:03 Speaker 5: And it's so weird when you're there now. At the time,

1:59:06 Speaker 5: it was out in the country. There was nothing around,

1:59:09 Speaker 5: and when you get there now there are a few

1:59:11 Speaker 5: homes built in that area, and a believe there's a

1:59:15 Speaker 5: sub station there and some other structure there now. But

1:59:19 Speaker 5: when he went out there chasing, he pulled up on

1:59:22 Speaker 5: a ridge to try to get a better view, and

1:59:25 Speaker 5: he sees his craft come down and land, and.

1:59:28 Speaker 1: Actually he viewed a in two individuals. Some say it

1:59:32 Speaker 1: said three, some say two. It said two, but I

1:59:35 Speaker 1: believe there was two.

1:59:36 Speaker 5: And he's seen them walking around and they had like

1:59:39 Speaker 5: white sort of like a spacesuit or coveralls on, and

1:59:44 Speaker 5: smaller figures were out there and they actually he made

1:59:48 Speaker 5: some noises and they responded to him, and actually it

1:59:51 Speaker 5: got in the craft then and took off and left,

1:59:54 Speaker 5: and he actually called and he was so wised to

1:59:58 Speaker 5: do this at the time, and we were actually there

2:00:02 Speaker 5: shortly before. Of course Lonnie had he had moved away

2:00:06 Speaker 5: from the area and Ted was trying to get him

2:00:09 Speaker 5: to come back, but he was sick and he later died,

2:00:11 Speaker 5: but which would have been great to have him there

2:00:15 Speaker 5: again to talk to. But his account was and he

2:00:20 Speaker 5: experienced it. He called the state patrol in and thank

2:00:24 Speaker 5: god he did, because the state patrolmans got there, they

2:00:27 Speaker 5: examined it, deck documented everything he did. And there were

2:00:31 Speaker 5: other I will tell you there were other branches of

2:00:33 Speaker 5: the government that were there, the DoD and others that

2:00:37 Speaker 5: tried to cover this up at the time. But because

2:00:39 Speaker 5: he had the state patrol there and they had take

2:00:42 Speaker 5: took photos and documentation, and he called in Alan. Of

2:00:46 Speaker 5: course Ted other people got there and so it couldn't

2:00:50 Speaker 5: be covered up this time, and that's one of the

2:00:52 Speaker 5: main reasons that But that's basically the basic story that

2:00:58 Speaker 5: went on there, and of course AID tried to They

2:01:01 Speaker 5: tried to use the excuse and Naser was experimenting in

2:01:04 Speaker 5: the area with the first one of the simple Moonlanders,

2:01:08 Speaker 5: and that that's what the officer had seen land There

2:01:12 Speaker 5: was a practice moonlander. And it wasn't because the noise

2:01:17 Speaker 5: that they made in the dust, the debris that that

2:01:21 Speaker 5: they made would have and he would have seen this

2:01:23 Speaker 5: and not he would have The man was a smart man.

2:01:26 Speaker 1: He would have figured out what was going on.

2:01:29 Speaker 2: Right.

2:01:29 Speaker 4: He's he's a he's a trained and credible observer. He

2:01:36 Speaker 4: he peels away from a high speeder who's he's chasing.

2:01:44 Speaker 1: So he not only.

2:01:45 Speaker 4: Deems this worthy of letting this guy go, but coming

2:01:52 Speaker 4: off because he thought someone was in real trouble and

2:01:57 Speaker 4: then observed what he observes this thing. It's off silently

2:02:02 Speaker 4: and you're right. He calls him the state patrol, which

2:02:05 Speaker 4: is one of the smartest moves he made. But you're right,

2:02:08 Speaker 4: the boot lander just that none of it made sense.

2:02:13 Speaker 4: And heinich, heinich really really this case changed him, right

2:02:20 Speaker 4: because because of the physical trace evidence.

2:02:24 Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, and and you know and Lonnie's and Morris

2:02:28 Speaker 5: is to the day he left moved and to the

2:02:32 Speaker 5: day he died, he maintained the exact same account of this.

2:02:36 Speaker 5: His neighbor's family witnesses to him. They they maintained he

2:02:43 Speaker 5: virtually kept us the whole time, his whole lot and

2:02:47 Speaker 5: he actually went inves there again, he actually the only

2:02:50 Speaker 5: time he got answers, and he was really he had problems.

2:02:55 Speaker 5: I mean, I think he even started drinking at a

2:02:57 Speaker 5: point and had problems, emotional problems. But there again, I

2:03:01 Speaker 5: will tell you he went and seen their local priest

2:03:05 Speaker 5: in that area and he spent a good deal time

2:03:08 Speaker 5: with a local priests.

2:03:09 Speaker 4: Yeah.

2:03:09 Speaker 5: Yeah, and he did get a lot of comfort in that,

2:03:13 Speaker 5: and he did become he maintained a more normal life

2:03:17 Speaker 5: after that.

2:03:18 Speaker 1: So uh So there again faith comes into play in this.

2:03:22 Speaker 5: And but it's an incredible account and it did happen,

2:03:27 Speaker 5: and uh, you know, and I urge anybody too to go.

2:03:34 Speaker 1: Look up the name Ray Stanford and uh he's.

2:03:37 Speaker 5: One of the most knowledgeable and credible human beings I've

2:03:40 Speaker 5: ever met in my life. Also, and he ran the

2:03:43 Speaker 5: project Starlight for the government, the first attempt with laser

2:03:48 Speaker 5: uh communications and tracking of UFOs UAPs that that was

2:03:54 Speaker 5: ever done, the first one he ran that. So and

2:03:59 Speaker 5: he's been in engineering and actually had experiments again with

2:04:03 Speaker 5: plasma type like devices to emulate simulate what what he's

2:04:10 Speaker 5: seen and back in what he dealt with and uh

2:04:14 Speaker 5: and had great success.

2:04:15 Speaker 1: So but is he yea, is he alive or.

2:04:24 Speaker 4: Is he still with us?

2:04:27 Speaker 1: He is, he's he's getting up there really in age,

2:04:30 Speaker 1: and he's not a very healthy individual.

2:04:33 Speaker 4: Ah. I'd love to talk to him, you know, I.

2:04:38 Speaker 1: Will contact him. I have trouble even contacting him any

2:04:42 Speaker 1: more myself. Uh.

2:04:45 Speaker 5: He's got one cell phone and it's his cell phone

2:04:49 Speaker 5: he uses is about the two thousand era of vintage

2:04:55 Speaker 5: cell phone.

2:04:56 Speaker 1: A flip phone. Yeah.

2:04:58 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, So I.

2:05:01 Speaker 5: Have problems and he's not in good health right now.

2:05:04 Speaker 5: But the man is a self taught paleontologist. He's actually

2:05:10 Speaker 5: have in Washington State and Maryland. He's actually found Uh,

2:05:15 Speaker 5: if you find fossils that you're the first one in

2:05:19 Speaker 5: dinosaur remains. If you're the first one to find identify him,

2:05:22 Speaker 5: you have the privilege in naming them. And he's actually

2:05:25 Speaker 5: got three different types of dinosaur to his credit named

2:05:29 Speaker 5: by him.

2:05:30 Speaker 4: Wow.

2:05:32 Speaker 1: When you go as home, uh, he has you can't

2:05:35 Speaker 1: step on the floor without stepping on dinosaur fossils. He's

2:05:39 Speaker 1: a unique individual and but he's most knowledgeable. Uh.

2:05:46 Speaker 5: He has video up there that they took of a

2:05:49 Speaker 5: plasma type craft that they had. They had great success

2:05:54 Speaker 5: with his project Starlight actually tracking these things, and the

2:05:59 Speaker 5: government wanted a form of a warning system for these things,

2:06:03 Speaker 5: which they did have some success in that area, and

2:06:06 Speaker 5: which can you can imagine.

2:06:08 Speaker 1: What they've got now. So the idea that they that

2:06:12 Speaker 1: they don't know these crafts are around or where they

2:06:14 Speaker 1: go or.

2:06:15 Speaker 4: What they are, no, that's yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's

2:06:19 Speaker 4: absolute bs Because in every single every single UFO crash case,

2:06:29 Speaker 4: a witness will come upon a crash debris field if

2:06:34 Speaker 4: they even do, and within seconds, maybe minutes top the

2:06:42 Speaker 4: government is on them, right Margenia, I mean we just

2:06:47 Speaker 4: name it, name it, name it well, kind of post roswell.

2:06:52 Speaker 4: But in far too many times there there's some sort

2:06:56 Speaker 4: of they are watching and they know exactly what these

2:07:02 Speaker 4: when these craft are in our our airspace, there's no

2:07:06 Speaker 4: doubt in my mind they are just it's it's look

2:07:11 Speaker 4: you look at the Calvine photo right there's a uf

2:07:14 Speaker 4: UFO and then then there's a military reconnaissance plane right there.

2:07:21 Speaker 4: They know when these things are are showing up. That's

2:07:25 Speaker 4: when they how they know to intercept and where to intercept.

2:07:28 Speaker 4: So there's no doubt in my mind that they have

2:07:31 Speaker 4: they had some sort of the satellite network dedicated to this.

2:07:38 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, and and their technologies have advanced so far,

2:07:43 Speaker 5: you know that, uh and and I will tell you

2:07:46 Speaker 5: that that's what one of Ted's beliefs were. He when

2:07:50 Speaker 5: the structured craft days, you know, twenty thirty foot classic

2:07:54 Speaker 5: disc started evolving more in the plasma like ball which

2:08:00 Speaker 5: always called light balls. He didn't like the name here

2:08:03 Speaker 5: again before tids change of mind, he didn't like the

2:08:08 Speaker 5: word orb because it gave more religious connotation and he

2:08:12 Speaker 5: didn't like that, and he would call him light balls.

2:08:15 Speaker 5: But the plasma like light balls he felt were their

2:08:18 Speaker 5: way of having an ROV to do their work. That

2:08:22 Speaker 5: when we increased our technology, they lowered their risk factor

2:08:26 Speaker 5: and they would go in more the light bub type craft.

2:08:29 Speaker 5: ROV's plasma like craft because when they're there, they're there,

2:08:33 Speaker 5: and when they're gone, you're not going to get a

2:08:35 Speaker 5: piece of the thing if your crash, yeah it's gone.

2:08:40 Speaker 4: That makes totals you know what. That is actually a

2:08:44 Speaker 4: really good because a lot of the craft they're not

2:08:51 Speaker 4: they're not seen anymore like the classic UFO. Maybe aside

2:08:55 Speaker 4: from sometimes some people get the tic taxiting, but I'm

2:09:00 Speaker 4: not convinced that that's not reverse engineered. I'm not fully

2:09:04 Speaker 4: convinced that the ticktac is actually I think it might

2:09:08 Speaker 4: be some sort of ARV.

2:09:10 Speaker 1: I'll tell you my thoughts on the tictac is.

2:09:14 Speaker 5: I was taught a long time ago, if something looks

2:09:16 Speaker 5: too good to be true, not that there aren't true

2:09:19 Speaker 5: things come through, but when something looks too good to

2:09:22 Speaker 5: be true. And whenever the government releases anything, I always

2:09:28 Speaker 5: questioned it because they've always been there, and then they

2:09:31 Speaker 5: take they'll come out with sudden and then take three

2:09:34 Speaker 5: steps backwards on it, you know, and which they did

2:09:37 Speaker 5: in the tictack and you know, and some they said

2:09:40 Speaker 5: we're advanced drone technology, which you know, but.

2:09:45 Speaker 1: I don't anything that they will release on their own

2:09:48 Speaker 1: like that. I question, believe me, because you usually pay

2:09:52 Speaker 1: a price if you go down that rabbit hole.

2:09:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you're not You're not wrong. You're not wrong

2:10:00 Speaker 4: when you say that. I I I would have to

2:10:04 Speaker 4: sadly agree. So, uh to where can people follow your work?

2:10:10 Speaker 4: I'd love to have you back on the show very

2:10:12 Speaker 4: soon and maybe we could talk, uh dive some more

2:10:16 Speaker 4: into you know, maybe some events that that that are

2:10:20 Speaker 4: about to happen. Who knows. But for the time being,

2:10:24 Speaker 4: how can people follow you on social media?

2:10:27 Speaker 1: All?

2:10:27 Speaker 4: But I'll links some description, but you know, just for

2:10:29 Speaker 4: your your word and plugging.

2:10:32 Speaker 5: Yeah, right now the best place to go. We had

2:10:36 Speaker 5: a great website, Ted phillis Marley Wood's research website, but

2:10:41 Speaker 5: Adam Johnson ran ran out. He did a great job,

2:10:45 Speaker 5: but we we let that go. We were we were

2:10:48 Speaker 5: working with some people that told us to drop that,

2:10:51 Speaker 5: and we did. We regret that, but we did. And

2:10:54 Speaker 5: right now I have a YouTube channel. I've got like

2:10:57 Speaker 5: thirty little movies on there you can watch free. You

2:11:01 Speaker 5: can see Jock Fila talking about his time in Marley

2:11:04 Speaker 5: I'm interviewing him and done getting better than that. And

2:11:08 Speaker 5: my Facebook page you can go to, and Ted Phillips

2:11:12 Speaker 5: Marley Woods research page. You can go there and join

2:11:16 Speaker 5: that in this free and anything that happens at Marley

2:11:20 Speaker 5: Woods we update there.

2:11:21 Speaker 1: And unfortunately we don't have a presence out there right now.

2:11:25 Speaker 5: There's not a whole lot of recent activity posted there,

2:11:29 Speaker 5: but you can go in there and see what has

2:11:32 Speaker 5: happened there Ted's work and I have old video of

2:11:36 Speaker 5: how Ted got started with Heinich. I've got that on

2:11:40 Speaker 5: my web, YouTube panel channel. So that's three ways you

2:11:45 Speaker 5: can get me. And we're working. I'm currently working. Of course,

2:11:49 Speaker 5: we're still working with Ben Hansen on trying to do

2:11:54 Speaker 5: Moonshaft and I'll let you know about that. And Adam

2:11:59 Speaker 5: Johnson has become a film producer. We actually had here

2:12:03 Speaker 5: again Douglas Trumbull out in Marley Woods. He's a friend

2:12:07 Speaker 5: of Ted's and Jock and of course Douglas trumble is

2:12:09 Speaker 5: the guy the special effects wizard for two thousand and

2:12:13 Speaker 5: one Space Odyssey, Close Encounters, Brainstorm and on and on,

2:12:17 Speaker 5: and we spent time with Douglas Trumbell out there, and

2:12:21 Speaker 5: Adam spent was in the film. He was a student

2:12:25 Speaker 5: at filming and doing that production, and he spent time

2:12:33 Speaker 5: working with Douglas Trumbull in his studio. And Adam went

2:12:37 Speaker 5: on to be a producer. He's done things for the

2:12:39 Speaker 5: Sci Fi Channel, and Adam's still involved with us.

2:12:44 Speaker 1: He's they're working.

2:12:45 Speaker 5: We're going to start a movie documentation on Ted Phillips

2:12:50 Speaker 5: life in career, Marley Woods and where Uthology has got

2:12:55 Speaker 5: to And Adam always said him and Douglas were working

2:12:58 Speaker 5: on this, and then Douglas all right, but he wants

2:13:01 Speaker 5: they wanted to take this We're Close Encounters left off

2:13:05 Speaker 5: into the real world and where you follows now, since

2:13:09 Speaker 5: that movie happened, so as soon as that we start

2:13:13 Speaker 5: on that and that ever we get that finished, I'll

2:13:16 Speaker 5: post that, believe me, and you can catch that.

2:13:19 Speaker 6: So well, yeah, maybe we can talk a little bit

2:13:22 Speaker 6: off air for a second. So don't don't just don't

2:13:27 Speaker 6: leave just after the music I get I got something

2:13:31 Speaker 6: I want to ask you. But for everyone else, yeah,

2:13:36 Speaker 6: I will put all those links in the description below

2:13:40 Speaker 6: for all your social media as well as your YouTube.

2:13:43 Speaker 4: That way people can stay up to date with what.

2:13:45 Speaker 1: Tom, what you're doing.

2:13:47 Speaker 6: Thank you for so much for being on total disclosure.

2:13:51 Speaker 6: You know, I hope his cheers to the first of many.

2:13:55 Speaker 6: And we just want to say thank you again for

2:13:58 Speaker 6: being a truth taker and someone who has dedicated their

2:14:02 Speaker 6: life to to exposing those truths to the greater public,

2:14:07 Speaker 6: because I again I think you know, it's a crime

2:14:09 Speaker 6: against humanity for it to be held against us and.

2:14:13 Speaker 4: Be hidden away and uh, mostly over greed.

2:14:17 Speaker 1: Uh and that's what it comes down to. So thank

2:14:20 Speaker 1: you so much. Man, Well, thank you. I really enjoyed it,

2:14:24 Speaker 1: and yeah, it was It's really been great. I love

2:14:27 Speaker 1: to share it thing, especially with an intelligence agent post

2:14:31 Speaker 1: like you that knows the subject matter. That makes it

2:14:33 Speaker 1: all the more enjoyable.

2:14:35 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I trust me.

2:14:37 Speaker 6: I live and breathing this stuff, man, So that's why

2:14:40 Speaker 6: I want to talk to you after and for everyone else.

2:14:43 Speaker 1: You know what it is.

2:14:44 Speaker 6: We got our documentary. Uh, it's self funded. We're revisiting

2:14:50 Speaker 6: that right now, still in the editing phases. But I

2:14:55 Speaker 6: signed signed on to do a second documentary, but right

2:15:00 Speaker 6: now that's being put on pause due to one of

2:15:04 Speaker 6: the executive producers being in very, very very ill health.

2:15:10 Speaker 6: So unfortunately that's gonna be I'll update everyone as that

2:15:16 Speaker 6: that turns Outever, like I said, I've been working with Bob.

2:15:22 Speaker 6: Bob and I went to so myself, Bob Sallas, and

2:15:26 Speaker 6: Steve Bassett went to the UFO hearings that just happened

2:15:31 Speaker 6: December thirt November thirteenth, and we met with Chairwoman Nancy

2:15:36 Speaker 6: Mace after Bob was able to briefer on the sixty

2:15:39 Speaker 6: seven Malstrum incident and Eric Burleson.

2:15:43 Speaker 4: Congressman Eric Burleson.

2:15:45 Speaker 1: Will be coming on the show.

2:15:48 Speaker 6: Probably in the next couple episodes, so that's gonna be cool.

2:15:51 Speaker 4: Chris Bledsoe is also coming on, so we have a lot,

2:15:54 Speaker 4: a lot going on. Everyone, Thank you so much. We'll

2:15:58 Speaker 4: see you next time.

2:16:03 Speaker 1: Appreicating any mabor tenterpaining YU to Representilating everywhere NAT and

2:16:10 Speaker 1: they can.

2:16:10 Speaker 6: Every editor

2:16:41 Speaker 2: Anta