"IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION"UFO WHISTLEBLOWER MATTHEW BROWN FULL TESTIMONY **BONUS**

0:00 Speaker 1: And we will hear testimony today concerning recent revelations about

0:04 Speaker 1: aportedly secret UAP program whose existence and findings may have

0:09 Speaker 1: been improperly withheld from Congress. This is going to be

0:13 Speaker 1: the original document about Immaculate Constellation.

0:18 Speaker 2: Those of us who have been following this very closely

0:20 Speaker 2: have been hearing whispers of the words Immaculate Constellation for

0:24 Speaker 2: a few months now.

0:25 Speaker 3: The Immaculate Constellation. It's a UAP reconnaissance program. I can

0:30 Speaker 3: affirm this one percent.

0:31 Speaker 4: What is in here as wild.

0:33 Speaker 2: I mean they're saying, I'm paraphrasing, but reports of F

0:35 Speaker 2: twenty two is getting like boxed in by flying orbs

0:38 Speaker 2: that they couldn't shake. They were satellite images or satellite

0:41 Speaker 2: image of a football field sized flying saus or hiding

0:45 Speaker 2: in clouds.

0:45 Speaker 3: I have personally walked people into members offices for private

0:49 Speaker 3: meetings so they could see eye to eye and they

0:52 Speaker 3: could meet. You are the author of what the world

0:55 Speaker 3: knows as the Immaculate Constellation Report.

1:00 Speaker 5: It has been allowed to corrupt and infest every aspect

1:05 Speaker 5: of our society to serve the interests in whims of

1:09 Speaker 5: a very elite select few.

1:18 Speaker 4: The following is an interview with the author of the

1:20 Speaker 4: Immaculate Constellation Report that was submitted into Congressional record.

1:24 Speaker 3: Is it ironic you have to put your face out

1:27 Speaker 3: with us to protect yourself at this point. That's what

1:30 Speaker 3: we're doing, right, Yeah, that's what we're doing.

1:33 Speaker 5: This is absolutely what I did not want to do.

1:37 Speaker 4: You've worked in secret programs, you've got clearances, You've made

1:41 Speaker 4: oaths that you would keep secrets. Let's talk about secrecy

1:45 Speaker 4: and the UAP topic. Shouldn't it be secret to some degree?

1:48 Speaker 4: I mean, we have there's a race for the technology

1:51 Speaker 4: to try to understand it. We have adversary nations who'd

1:54 Speaker 4: love to get it ahead of us. Why not keep

1:56 Speaker 4: this stuff secret?

1:59 Speaker 5: Well, if it was just technology that we are worried

2:01 Speaker 5: about protecting and maintaining humilitary advantage, you know, there's strong

2:07 Speaker 5: arguments to be made and have successfully been made for

2:10 Speaker 5: decades in this country that the American leadership and American

2:14 Speaker 5: people seem to be finding acceptable to be left in

2:18 Speaker 5: the dark about. You know, where science, technology, and their

2:21 Speaker 5: military is taking them. This isn't just technology. This isn't

2:24 Speaker 5: something somebody came up with in a lab, and it's

2:27 Speaker 5: sensitive because once the cats have the bag anybody can

2:30 Speaker 5: do it. Fundamentally, this comes from in a secondary to

2:36 Speaker 5: what we've been told is the biggest question, which is

2:38 Speaker 5: humanity alone. The answer is no, And the secrecy that

2:45 Speaker 5: has been defended is at the cost in my mind,

2:50 Speaker 5: human dignity, freedom and progress. And it is no longer

2:55 Speaker 5: permissible or acceptable in my mind to continue this course

3:00 Speaker 5: to deprive another generation of not just Americans, but humanity

3:04 Speaker 5: with their birthright to know who they are, where they

3:08 Speaker 5: came from, and what's with us.

3:11 Speaker 4: Can you give us a general description of the size

3:14 Speaker 4: of the secrecy apparatus? You know, we're going to drill

3:16 Speaker 4: down to this, of course, about income in one particular

3:21 Speaker 4: facet of the secrecy that you came across, and other

3:24 Speaker 4: parts of it. But how big of a secrecy apparatus

3:27 Speaker 4: is it? How many stovepipes are there, how many people

3:30 Speaker 4: are involved in different ways of keeping this secret, confusing

3:34 Speaker 4: the public, lying to Congress, lying to the world.

3:37 Speaker 5: Simply put us, it's a parallel reality. The secrecy apparatus

3:46 Speaker 5: is all pervasive. It is not just in the intelligence

3:49 Speaker 5: community governing their world. It's not just in the military

3:52 Speaker 5: protecting their operations. It's not protecting Churt diplomats and leaders

3:56 Speaker 5: as they conduct their work, sometimes in very dangerous places.

4:00 Speaker 5: It has been allowed to corrupt and infest every aspect

4:05 Speaker 5: of our society to serve the interests and whims of

4:09 Speaker 5: a very elite, select few.

4:12 Speaker 4: And it's been used to intimidate, threaten destroy the lives

4:16 Speaker 4: of people like yourselves who have been doing their job,

4:19 Speaker 4: keeping their oaths, trying to protect their country, being true

4:23 Speaker 4: to humanity, and have paid prices for it.

4:26 Speaker 3: Absolutely, this has been a difficult process for you, for

4:35 Speaker 3: me and you, you know kind of going through this.

4:38 Speaker 3: I've seen what you've gone through personally with this. You're

4:42 Speaker 3: taking a personal hit, like a painful risk, just talking

4:47 Speaker 3: becaus just doing this. Finally, after all this time, I

4:50 Speaker 3: think I understand why you're explaining something philosophical, what you

4:54 Speaker 3: believe about the secrecy, just personally, Like what is this

4:59 Speaker 3: step for you to do this? Like why I need

5:01 Speaker 3: to understand? Why why are you telling this to everybody now?

5:06 Speaker 5: Now there's no short answer something you know, I have many,

5:14 Speaker 5: not even competing, but parallel motivations. But why now? Look

5:25 Speaker 5: out at the world, look inside our country. We are

5:30 Speaker 5: not headed to a good future.

5:35 Speaker 3: You're concerned. I am explain the concern.

5:39 Speaker 5: Uh, Ultimately, my biggest fear is what humanity will do

5:48 Speaker 5: to hisself out of fear and greed and what we

5:51 Speaker 5: have done, and we have built a prison around ourselves visible,

6:01 Speaker 5: but it's not complete and there is still time to

6:06 Speaker 5: maybe alter our trajectory, have a different future. May not

6:11 Speaker 5: be the best one that we had hoped for, but

6:13 Speaker 5: it's going to be damn sight better than what they

6:17 Speaker 5: have planned for us.

6:18 Speaker 4: You know, there's no going back after you tell us

6:20 Speaker 4: this on camera, We had this conversation. This is it,

6:23 Speaker 4: This is the wine in the sand you're about to

6:25 Speaker 4: cross over here.

6:26 Speaker 5: Absolutely, I am, on a personal level giving up the

6:30 Speaker 5: future that I made for myself and was going to

6:35 Speaker 5: try to make for a family. I'm proud of what

6:40 Speaker 5: I accomplished in my time in government, and it's painful

6:44 Speaker 5: to leave the good people there and to know that

6:50 Speaker 5: there really isn't room for people to act according to

6:54 Speaker 5: their conscience and our constitutional ideals. It is side. Is

7:00 Speaker 5: it your belief based on materials.

7:03 Speaker 4: Things that you've been exposed to, that you've seen, people

7:06 Speaker 4: you've talked to and communicated with over a period of

7:09 Speaker 4: a couple of years. Is you believe that this the technology,

7:11 Speaker 4: the race for the technology, the understanding of the big

7:14 Speaker 4: secret is entirely in the hands of people outside the government,

7:19 Speaker 4: and not for the benefit of the public or to

7:21 Speaker 4: protect American national security. It's in some other realm, in

7:25 Speaker 4: some other hands.

7:27 Speaker 5: I think it's a mix. I think our military, you know,

7:31 Speaker 5: a long historic involvement in this. So does our intelligence

7:35 Speaker 5: community and our scientific academic community. We have as a

7:40 Speaker 5: country allowed ourselves to be penetrated, co opted, and corrupted

7:45 Speaker 5: by an internationalist force that serves their interests and views

7:53 Speaker 5: nations peoples as tools and means to an end like.

7:59 Speaker 4: A business ball, international corporations that have no loyalty to

8:03 Speaker 4: any nation, let alone this one.

8:04 Speaker 5: That's a large part of it. I think we go

8:07 Speaker 5: have to go above that too, to start to explain

8:10 Speaker 5: that the degree of the level of deception and the

8:15 Speaker 5: level of commitment they've had to maintaining that deception, it's

8:18 Speaker 5: above just monetary gain and power they're afraid.

8:23 Speaker 3: George and I have talked about whistle blowers that come

8:24 Speaker 3: to us, and we protect them. We don't often report

8:28 Speaker 3: on when people come to us. We're doing this now,

8:32 Speaker 3: you know, what are the repercussions. People talk about whistlers

8:36 Speaker 3: being afraid, and there's one set of being afraid, which

8:39 Speaker 3: is when you're squeezed by outside entities you know that

8:42 Speaker 3: are fucking with you, and which has happened to you,

8:44 Speaker 3: And we'll talk about that, But what are the just

8:47 Speaker 3: the legal implication of what you're about to talk to

8:49 Speaker 3: us today? Tell me the gravity right now? What are

8:52 Speaker 3: you facing? I want our audience to understand what it

8:55 Speaker 3: means for you to talk to us right now. What

8:57 Speaker 3: could happen to you?

8:58 Speaker 5: I hope is that the stakes are not pay it out,

9:06 Speaker 5: but they are life imprisonment and the possibility of execution.

9:12 Speaker 3: And you've tried all the right ways. I've helped you

9:15 Speaker 3: on some of it. We've tried, you have tried all

9:18 Speaker 3: the right ways to do this, but you have something

9:21 Speaker 3: much bigger that is pushing on you that you have

9:25 Speaker 3: to take this next set step forward. And so now

9:28 Speaker 3: I just want people to understand where you're coming from.

9:30 Speaker 3: And we say we protect Whistlebush and people come to us.

9:32 Speaker 3: Not everybody goes on camera, but also just you work

9:36 Speaker 3: currently in Department of State. But maybe he should tell

9:39 Speaker 3: us his history.

9:40 Speaker 4: Yeah, let's do a chronological So you got a degree

9:44 Speaker 4: in what?

9:45 Speaker 5: So I got a degree in international affairs, came out

9:48 Speaker 5: to d C, started working in a small think tank.

9:52 Speaker 5: From there I applied to and was accepted to an

9:56 Speaker 5: intelligence agency. Ended up taking a job at the Pentagon.

10:02 Speaker 5: Basically waiting for the right opportunity for that world to

10:07 Speaker 5: pop up? Was which one it did? I, you know,

10:13 Speaker 5: was having too much fun as so I said.

10:15 Speaker 4: No, you're in the Pentagon weapons of mass destruction as

10:19 Speaker 4: a general umbrella under which you're working. Did you got

10:22 Speaker 4: a security clearance at that.

10:23 Speaker 5: Point, Yeah, I had been cleared by ADA for a

10:27 Speaker 5: top secret sci clearance.

10:30 Speaker 4: You get to see, I guess firsthand, all this different

10:33 Speaker 4: information that comes in from all over these places, different platforms. Right,

10:38 Speaker 4: You're exposed to that and you get the idea of

10:40 Speaker 4: just how big that apparatus is.

10:42 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, absolutely, UFOs and aliens aside. It's a it's

10:49 Speaker 5: a different world without anything exotic in it. When you

10:51 Speaker 5: are exposed to that information and learning over time, not

10:55 Speaker 5: just from the intelligence but the experiences of the people

10:58 Speaker 5: around you. Because not everything that's true when this has

11:01 Speaker 5: happened in the world is written down on paper.

11:03 Speaker 3: I mean you've given a lot of rules and responsibilities.

11:05 Speaker 3: It gives you access to very sensitive information. When you

11:09 Speaker 3: said sci that's secret, compartmentalized information. Is the acronym.

11:13 Speaker 5: Sensitives departmentalized information, I always yeah, it's probably right.

11:16 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know about me. But I'm just saying,

11:20 Speaker 3: you know, you are a sane human being. You're given

11:24 Speaker 3: a lot of these responsibilities, you know. I just think

11:28 Speaker 3: it's important for people to understand. So you have access

11:31 Speaker 3: to very critical information through the United States government. There's

11:34 Speaker 3: separate from the UFOs and the alien you know, topic

11:37 Speaker 3: that we're going to talk about.

11:38 Speaker 4: For the world, for the world, US and the world.

11:40 Speaker 3: Yes, and that wigh is heavy on you. I'm sure

11:42 Speaker 3: like you're you're really looking to defend the United States

11:45 Speaker 3: of America where you live, and you are looking at

11:48 Speaker 3: information that is just highly sensitive. I think it's important

11:51 Speaker 3: for people to know good people like you doing great

11:53 Speaker 3: jobs and there you had access and responsibilities. People trust you.

11:59 Speaker 3: That's you can't get there without that.

12:01 Speaker 5: It is. Yeah, it's a very burdensome rule. I feel

12:10 Speaker 5: deeply for the people who have been there for many years.

12:14 Speaker 5: There's a lot of hidden suffering that comes from it.

12:16 Speaker 5: But it is a you know, I thought it was

12:20 Speaker 5: a noble and good mission.

12:21 Speaker 4: I still do and risks. I imagine there's all kinds

12:24 Speaker 4: of information that comes across your desk and that desk

12:27 Speaker 4: of other people you're working with at that point about

12:29 Speaker 4: weapons of mass destruction, the movement of nuclear weapons, or

12:32 Speaker 4: suddenly material that disappears and where did it go, black

12:35 Speaker 4: market biological weapons research, things that are going on around

12:41 Speaker 4: the world that we need to keep an eye on, right, yeah,

12:44 Speaker 4: and things that never make the news.

12:47 Speaker 5: You're absolutely right, Yeah, there is. Like I said, there

12:51 Speaker 5: is a whole many there's many worlds. There's many shells

12:55 Speaker 5: to our reality that the public, including our professional media class,

13:00 Speaker 5: our professional academic class, our political class, has absolutely no

13:05 Speaker 5: idea exists, and if they do have an idea, they

13:08 Speaker 5: have a very distorted one, sometimes intentionally.

13:11 Speaker 3: So I mean, you're not like some secret agent. You're

13:14 Speaker 3: not like some sie secret agent. So like, so people

13:17 Speaker 3: understand when you're working at the competigon is where we're

13:19 Speaker 3: out in the thing. I mean this is we have

13:21 Speaker 3: a lot of great people that are bright minded working

13:23 Speaker 3: on these problems for the United States, keeping the United

13:26 Speaker 3: States safe. Looking at geopolitical aspects, of nuclear weaponry, that

13:29 Speaker 3: kind of thing. But just to be clear, I mean,

13:31 Speaker 3: you're not some secret agent with more access than anybody

13:34 Speaker 3: else or anything like that.

13:36 Speaker 5: No, I never wanted to be a field officer. I

13:42 Speaker 5: danced with the idea and in my dreams maybe and

13:45 Speaker 5: read the books, but I knew that wasn't for me,

13:49 Speaker 5: especially the task and the cost of befriending and manipulating

13:56 Speaker 5: and ultimately using people. I don't think I would have

14:00 Speaker 5: been very good at that.

14:01 Speaker 3: Like human human intelligences, yeah, false friendship exactly?

14:05 Speaker 4: Does that stuff come across your desk? Human intelligence, signals,

14:08 Speaker 4: intelligence regarding weapons and mass all sources, all.

14:11 Speaker 5: Sources intelligence, all sorts of intelligence. And then if there

14:15 Speaker 5: are questions and go ask them and usually get the answers.

14:18 Speaker 4: And the kinds of things that you see that come

14:20 Speaker 4: across your desk, does it give you pause? How am

14:23 Speaker 4: I going to sleep that I knowing that this X

14:25 Speaker 4: Y Z is going on somewhere At times when I think,

14:29 Speaker 4: oh crab, how did this happen?

14:31 Speaker 5: Everyone has like their different standard of what's going to

14:35 Speaker 5: shake them like that, and I've definitely had a few

14:37 Speaker 5: of those. I'll share them, but.

14:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean just with security, bring national security

14:43 Speaker 3: kind of stuff.

14:43 Speaker 5: Right, stuff unrelated to exotic things that are very just

14:46 Speaker 5: world that there.

14:48 Speaker 4: Okay, you're there for a while, you do that for

14:49 Speaker 4: how many years?

14:51 Speaker 5: Oh? See there a little over four years, but as

14:54 Speaker 5: depending on a little over five because I moved out

14:57 Speaker 5: of there briefly into the undersecretary to for Intelligence and

15:02 Speaker 5: he's smaller office in there.

15:05 Speaker 4: We've heard of that office.

15:06 Speaker 3: We have heard of that office.

15:09 Speaker 4: Was there a different sort of work or the same

15:11 Speaker 4: thing just for a.

15:11 Speaker 5: Different book the same field, different work, different boss, different community.

15:16 Speaker 4: So you're working for a contractor, but you're working at

15:18 Speaker 4: the Pentagon on Pentagon business and that's sort of a

15:21 Speaker 4: model that is used for all kinds of programs.

15:23 Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, that's that's the industry in DC.

15:28 Speaker 4: Is that to have a buffer of some sort. Why

15:31 Speaker 4: why is that?

15:32 Speaker 5: Well, you have government management and they're supposed to be

15:35 Speaker 5: the ones that you know, they signed the checks, make

15:37 Speaker 5: the final decisions. But yeah, most of the staff is contractors,

15:42 Speaker 5: military people on detail, people on fellowships from you know,

15:47 Speaker 5: either think tanks or universities.

15:50 Speaker 4: So you get to be familiar with snowpipes and how

15:53 Speaker 4: you know, you could be working on this, and the

15:54 Speaker 4: guy may be in the office next to you or

15:56 Speaker 4: the desk next to you is working on something else,

15:58 Speaker 4: and you don't melt what they're working on.

16:01 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that it can be that way. My

16:03 Speaker 5: experience was more that we had a team. It was

16:06 Speaker 5: all more or less on the same information level. But

16:09 Speaker 5: then there'd be other teams that, yeah, they have their own,

16:11 Speaker 5: so it's not quite as isolated. I've heard from others.

16:14 Speaker 5: It can be just you know, it's you and no

16:17 Speaker 5: one else around you who knows what you're doing.

16:19 Speaker 4: You got a company, it's a contractor that's working there

16:22 Speaker 4: in the Pentagon. How much oversight is there from the

16:24 Speaker 4: actual Pentagon the military of a contractor's work.

16:27 Speaker 5: Well, I mean the day to day is overseen by

16:29 Speaker 5: the government. So in that sense, it's it's there.

16:35 Speaker 4: And is that generally true for all the contractor programs

16:37 Speaker 4: that will be getting into later that somebody in the

16:40 Speaker 4: military or I see is looking at what the contractor does.

16:44 Speaker 5: No, I couldn't say, right, yeah, I could not say.

16:48 Speaker 4: We got the one degree and then you went on

16:51 Speaker 4: to try to get a master's.

16:53 Speaker 5: Yeah. I went to George Washington University Masters of Security

16:57 Speaker 5: Policy Study, got to the point where I had a

17:01 Speaker 5: fesis to submit, and then I started working at the Pentagon.

17:04 Speaker 5: That took a break and kind of got caught up

17:07 Speaker 5: in the churn as the term.

17:08 Speaker 4: Is right, I'm curious about just what it's like to

17:11 Speaker 4: work at the Pentagon. I mean to think, you're driving

17:13 Speaker 4: to work there. It is the heart and soul of

17:16 Speaker 4: the national security of our country. You're doing important work,

17:19 Speaker 4: weapons of mass destruction in the biggest office building in

17:22 Speaker 4: the world. I would think it'd be a lot of

17:25 Speaker 4: satisfaction in that. But I wonder what day to day

17:28 Speaker 4: is like. Are you under surveillance, do you have to

17:30 Speaker 4: do polygraps? Can you tell your wife what you're doing?

17:33 Speaker 4: Do you socialize with colleagues or do you have to

17:36 Speaker 4: worry about what you say to whom and where?

17:40 Speaker 5: Yeah, so I mean started with the first part. I

17:44 Speaker 5: think for me at least, Yeah, it was what I

17:47 Speaker 5: finally made it right working at the Pentagon. It's cheesy,

17:53 Speaker 5: but I felt pride pretty much every single day that

17:56 Speaker 5: I rolled in there.

17:57 Speaker 4: That's not cheesy.

18:00 Speaker 5: It was I was very fortunate to join an office

18:05 Speaker 5: that cared a lot about their people, not just their

18:08 Speaker 5: performance at work, but their goals, their desires, and how

18:14 Speaker 5: they were getting on with life in general. Fewer places

18:19 Speaker 5: are like that, But I look back on the time

18:22 Speaker 5: with a lot of with a lot of happiness.

18:24 Speaker 4: How do things begin to sour? Is it because of

18:27 Speaker 4: this topic that we're able to discuss. Yes, let's take

18:30 Speaker 4: it from there. When when does that start? What's your

18:33 Speaker 4: first exposure?

18:35 Speaker 3: I mean, were you like a UFO guy like before?

18:37 Speaker 3: I mean, like there's something that happened, and there's always

18:40 Speaker 3: an instigator, right, But it's like, you know, were you

18:43 Speaker 3: like a UFO guy all year years back or not?

18:47 Speaker 5: To some degree, I've always been interested in aliens and UFOs,

18:52 Speaker 5: secret histories, the things that are hidden from us. It's

18:55 Speaker 5: been a lifelong kind of passion. It's not always aliens,

18:58 Speaker 5: you know. While I was always interested in these things,

19:01 Speaker 5: they were never they were only a realm of possible.

19:07 Speaker 5: And when I looked at UFOs in a serious way,

19:09 Speaker 5: as I was more in my like college years, I

19:14 Speaker 5: got just not exposure, but you know, started learning about

19:17 Speaker 5: the sort of ecosystem of secrecy in the military industrial complex,

19:23 Speaker 5: what SAPs are, what caps are, and you start to

19:27 Speaker 5: realize like, oh, yeah, there's a good chance a lot

19:30 Speaker 5: of what these UFO things are some really cool stuff

19:33 Speaker 5: that we have, whether it's in the air, under the water,

19:35 Speaker 5: or right in part of you.

19:37 Speaker 4: You're not getting a job at the Pentagon because you

19:39 Speaker 4: want to get access to the UFO c No.

19:41 Speaker 5: Now, when I joined, I thought, you know, I pretty

19:45 Speaker 5: much locked down that you know, there might be life

19:47 Speaker 5: out there, but most most of what we're seeing in

19:51 Speaker 5: the skies at that time I thought was either hours

19:53 Speaker 5: or ally or adversary.

19:55 Speaker 4: If you don't go over the deep end, you're not

19:57 Speaker 4: going to move on conferences. You're not worth a beanie

19:59 Speaker 4: and alien stuff on your head.

20:01 Speaker 5: No. No, in fact, you know I would be looked

20:04 Speaker 5: at like I had a third eye just by suggesting

20:06 Speaker 5: there were stealth satellites.

20:08 Speaker 3: I mean, in fact, like you've never been to like

20:10 Speaker 3: a UFO conference or anything like that, have you? No, right,

20:13 Speaker 3: that's not your style. No, you're a very analytically minded person.

20:17 Speaker 3: Something I've learned. I bet you're fucking really good at

20:20 Speaker 3: your job because just the way our communications, the way

20:23 Speaker 3: you deep dive into research, that's the talent to be

20:25 Speaker 3: able to pull a lot big source information, all source

20:28 Speaker 3: information and kind of come to conclusions that you that

20:32 Speaker 3: is one of your skill sets.

20:33 Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely, Did you ever work nine to five?

20:37 Speaker 4: Because you're kind of a workaholic, right and you go

20:39 Speaker 4: over the top.

20:40 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you know, I really liked depending on. I

20:45 Speaker 5: learned an immense amount there and I would stay there

20:47 Speaker 5: till the wee hours of the morning learning.

20:51 Speaker 4: Which is also how you found out information about the

20:55 Speaker 4: topic topic rend the I delved too deeply and.

20:59 Speaker 5: You came across this sort of accident one hundred percent accidentally,

21:03 Speaker 5: well sorry, the immaculate constellation piece of this one hundred

21:07 Speaker 5: percent accidentally. Before I was exposed to that, you know,

21:12 Speaker 5: I had seen UAP on military videos in the Pentagon,

21:18 Speaker 5: but nothing that suggested you know, origin, uh intent or

21:26 Speaker 5: in the level of detail that you know I came

21:27 Speaker 5: to find later.

21:29 Speaker 3: I had so explain that to the apertude, like, how

21:31 Speaker 3: do you just come across UFO videos in the Pentagon?

21:34 Speaker 3: What does that mean? What tells somebody who has no

21:36 Speaker 3: idea how that happens?

21:40 Speaker 5: So you have a clearance and there's a secret Internet,

21:46 Speaker 5: and on that secret Internet there's just a generic access

21:49 Speaker 5: like you and I. It's all very secret sensitive stuff,

21:53 Speaker 5: but more or less everyone can look at what's on there.

21:57 Speaker 5: Then you know, you have on this secret Internet some compartmentation,

22:05 Speaker 5: light compartmentation as it were, and then there's entirely different

22:09 Speaker 5: systems for truly truly sensitive stuff. But the point is

22:14 Speaker 5: is that there is essentially, you know, a shared a

22:18 Speaker 5: shared community of knowledge, and it goes back, you know,

22:22 Speaker 5: just like our own Internet, it goes back over decades.

22:25 Speaker 4: If you have a top secret clearance, you go on jwix,

22:28 Speaker 4: you can pretty much go and see whatever is on there,

22:30 Speaker 4: except for special compartmentalized stuff, yeah.

22:34 Speaker 5: Pretty much, or things that you know are just people

22:37 Speaker 5: protect their business processes.

22:39 Speaker 4: So who would be putting UFO type or UAP videos

22:43 Speaker 4: on there? How does that happen? How do they end

22:45 Speaker 4: up there?

22:46 Speaker 5: Service members and intelligence officers who for one reason or

22:51 Speaker 5: another decided to put that footage there?

22:55 Speaker 3: What's the first UFO video? See? What'd you think of it?

22:58 Speaker 3: Military film footage of a UFO? What did you what

23:04 Speaker 3: was that?

23:04 Speaker 6: Like?

23:06 Speaker 5: Well, technically the first true like military footage was that

23:10 Speaker 5: I saw was that Tictac video and the go Fast video.

23:16 Speaker 5: And I think there's one other else, the Gimball video.

23:19 Speaker 5: That all came out in twenty seventeen, granted I didn't

23:23 Speaker 5: see those on military systems, but just being precise here, Yeah,

23:29 Speaker 5: and so things that I saw after that kind of

23:33 Speaker 5: look like all that, but just much more duration. The videos.

23:38 Speaker 5: You know, it's the Internet, whether it's secret or not.

23:40 Speaker 5: There's compression, there's upload and file sizes. So some things

23:44 Speaker 5: are crystal clear, but it's only fifteen seconds. Some things

23:47 Speaker 5: you can see forty five minutes of something moving around,

23:50 Speaker 5: but it's kind of blurry because that's a lot of data.

23:53 Speaker 3: So you've seen crystal clear at times videos of what

23:56 Speaker 3: appeared to be would you say non human intelligence made craft?

24:00 Speaker 3: I mean, what you see evidence that the rest of

24:03 Speaker 3: the world doesn't get to see that starts happening.

24:06 Speaker 5: Yeah, nothing in those videos necessarily proves it's extraterrestrial or

24:12 Speaker 5: non human. It certainly is anomalous, exotic, and unexplainable and advanced.

24:19 Speaker 3: Yes, beyond our capabilities that you know.

24:22 Speaker 5: I don't know. Some of it might might have been

24:25 Speaker 5: within our capabilities to replicate, even in an inferior manner,

24:30 Speaker 5: but quite a lot of it, you know, it's either

24:35 Speaker 5: something else or we live in a world where we

24:39 Speaker 5: have been left behind.

24:40 Speaker 4: Twenty seventeen, these stories come out New York Times and

24:43 Speaker 4: other media. The videos become known that sparked your curiosity

24:47 Speaker 4: and you start looking around for that kind of stuff

24:50 Speaker 4: or it would just come across your desk, going to

24:53 Speaker 4: in front of your eyes naturally.

24:55 Speaker 5: Yeah, so not looking for that stuff.

24:57 Speaker 3: Did you have access to live feeds? Yes, so live

25:00 Speaker 3: feeds real time you could go into like a reaper

25:03 Speaker 3: drone and see if there's something going on. Just I mean,

25:06 Speaker 3: not that you're specifically looking for UFOs, but you had

25:08 Speaker 3: access even to live feeds.

25:11 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, not anything special, no special access, but

25:16 Speaker 5: you know you you know where those resources are. You

25:19 Speaker 5: can go look at them.

25:20 Speaker 4: And I did I want to go back to this.

25:24 Speaker 4: You said these nuclear facilities, nuclear weapons, nuclear labs, nuclear

25:29 Speaker 4: power plants that within a year or two, Like, are

25:31 Speaker 4: you saying all of them get visited or there's some

25:34 Speaker 4: strange phenomenon.

25:35 Speaker 5: I can't say that they all do, but I would

25:38 Speaker 5: I would suspect that, you know, anything that is sufficiently

25:44 Speaker 5: nuclear will draw attention at some point and will be uh,

25:49 Speaker 5: they will be encountering.

25:50 Speaker 4: And what are they? What do you see it? What

25:52 Speaker 4: kinds of things are you seeing?

25:54 Speaker 5: So? I mean, nothing too dramatic when it comes to

25:57 Speaker 5: like these facilities, A lot of times it's poor of

26:01 Speaker 5: you know, it's hard to always judge the size, but

26:05 Speaker 5: I'd be surprised if it's bigger than a cessna. Probably

26:07 Speaker 5: something somewhere in between, whether it's white or silverish, or

26:12 Speaker 5: if you're looking through different sensor apparati, it'll you know,

26:16 Speaker 5: look like whatever hot or cold is. But usually orbs

26:21 Speaker 5: around these facilities. Sometimes things that look a bit more irregular,

26:27 Speaker 5: but the vast majority being orbs.

26:29 Speaker 3: I mean, the world's been exposed to some of this.

26:31 Speaker 3: There's been a clarification to the general public about what

26:34 Speaker 3: are you seeing when you're seeing infrared or flear It

26:37 Speaker 3: takes some translation. There are people that focus on that

26:39 Speaker 3: and like they can read that, But basically you're looking

26:43 Speaker 3: at things that don't have flight control surfaces, that don't

26:46 Speaker 3: have traditional propulsion. They seem to tag on, which we've

26:50 Speaker 3: heard forever with nuclear events and that kind of thing,

26:53 Speaker 3: nuclear structured. But you see a lot of these sharketing

26:57 Speaker 3: exposive I mean, just to begin, doesn't that does that

27:00 Speaker 3: start or doesn't that start to kind of feed that

27:04 Speaker 3: curiosity in you? You just all of a sudden, the

27:07 Speaker 3: average person that you're now seeing stuff that you can't.

27:12 Speaker 5: Yeah, you have to be a special kind of boring

27:14 Speaker 5: to not be interested after those states. It's shocking, especially

27:17 Speaker 5: knowing the context.

27:19 Speaker 3: Of what you're looking at, right, which you get when

27:21 Speaker 3: you have those systems that can look at that. What's

27:24 Speaker 3: the context with the big picture, like what's what's the content?

27:28 Speaker 4: Yeah, and in this in this way you're seeing images.

27:31 Speaker 4: Is there discussion as their text that comes along with us, Hey,

27:34 Speaker 4: we saw this thing, what the hell is it?

27:36 Speaker 5: It's not us Surprisingly little of that. I think the

27:40 Speaker 5: community kind of knows or new we don't talk about this,

27:45 Speaker 5: it's there. You know, that changed some years ago, but

27:52 Speaker 5: it's since been i think shut down again in terms of,

27:55 Speaker 5: like you know, community participation and solving the problem.

27:59 Speaker 3: So people within the intelligence community to know, you don't

28:03 Speaker 3: talk about this out loud, you don't say the quiet

28:05 Speaker 3: part out loud, you post stuff you kind of get.

28:08 Speaker 3: Then you get an era of discussion when this starts

28:11 Speaker 3: coming forward twenty seventeen New York Times story. But then

28:14 Speaker 3: you're explaining that there's been a kind of clamp down

28:17 Speaker 3: on that dialogue and discussion. I've heard that from a

28:20 Speaker 3: lot of people on the inside. You witness that too.

28:23 Speaker 5: Ah, yes, absolutely, both firsthand and from hearing from friends

28:28 Speaker 5: and connections. I guess the screws were tightened and certain

28:33 Speaker 5: agencies you're not allowed to mention certain whistleblowers' names or

28:37 Speaker 5: you'll be fired immediately.

28:38 Speaker 4: So if there's no announcement on the PA system, there's

28:40 Speaker 4: no leaflets left in the cafeteria and no memo put

28:44 Speaker 4: out that says don't talk about this stuff.

28:46 Speaker 5: But you know, yeah, yeah, you can pick.

28:49 Speaker 3: Up on that vibe real quick when you say there's

28:51 Speaker 3: certain whistleblowers' names you can't mention. This brings me back

28:54 Speaker 3: to a friend of ours when when George is doing

28:57 Speaker 3: his news report on Bobs our first time is going

28:59 Speaker 3: to air. He just said when he was up at

29:01 Speaker 3: Area fifty two, he just said, hey, you should pay

29:03 Speaker 3: attention to the news. His career was over. He get

29:06 Speaker 3: pulled into room the next day. I would call him

29:08 Speaker 3: a friend of ours. I interviewed him about it. I

29:11 Speaker 3: mean that was done. He just mentioned to watch George's

29:14 Speaker 3: news report. Again, we're not equating Bob Blazaar to anything.

29:19 Speaker 3: What we were just saying that happened. So what do

29:22 Speaker 3: you mean if you mentioned certain whistibles who who David Grush?

29:25 Speaker 3: You can't mention David Grush in certain professional settings or

29:28 Speaker 3: you are fucked.

29:29 Speaker 5: Yeah, if you're not fired, you are in for a

29:33 Speaker 5: very rough time, is my understanding. Ella Zondo, you know

29:36 Speaker 5: I didn't hear Elizondo is a no.

29:37 Speaker 3: Go word saying. Look, David Grush testified in open congress,

29:43 Speaker 3: So that makes sense. So what have you seen it happen?

29:47 Speaker 3: Have you seen people like mention his name? How do

29:49 Speaker 3: you become away? You can't even talk about him?

29:51 Speaker 5: So that specific example, her FU friend at that agency,

29:57 Speaker 5: that was essentially the word of mouth from man. Nothing

30:00 Speaker 5: written in paper, nothing in emails, but from what it

30:04 Speaker 5: sounds like, people got a conversation with their leadership and

30:08 Speaker 5: we're told as much as we've just gone over and

30:12 Speaker 5: his name was absolutely the first end experience sort of

30:15 Speaker 5: radioactive in the chatam. So it would either all of

30:18 Speaker 5: a sudden, these people that never participate are there really

30:22 Speaker 5: slamming him and slamming the people talking about.

30:24 Speaker 3: Him on the class about Internet in our space is

30:26 Speaker 3: when we've talked about about it. But these these where

30:29 Speaker 3: people had open dialogue, it just got to clamp down.

30:32 Speaker 3: And his name was part of that. That's what you

30:33 Speaker 3: meant when you said certain people are radio active. You

30:35 Speaker 3: can't mention their names, right, Okay, glueless and good Yeah, no,

30:39 Speaker 3: we're nuclear. He's radio act with different designation. Yeah.

30:43 Speaker 4: So you're seeing these videos and some limited discussion. You

30:46 Speaker 4: can't really openly talk about it, but you're curious, you're

30:49 Speaker 4: you're kind of hooked on the topic.

30:51 Speaker 5: Yeah, And to be clear, twenty eighteen, when this first

30:55 Speaker 5: exposure happened, and for about a few years after, it

30:59 Speaker 5: was more it did at least feel more open. Looking

31:01 Speaker 5: back on it, this was probably a counterintelligence prerogative at

31:05 Speaker 5: the time, but it was allowed to exist, The discussion

31:09 Speaker 5: was allowed to exist, and it felt more like, you know,

31:11 Speaker 5: people were excited to finally actually be able to talk

31:14 Speaker 5: about this and finally be able to try to compare

31:17 Speaker 5: notes figure it out.

31:19 Speaker 4: Well, it's when the UAP Task Force was created. They

31:21 Speaker 4: didn't call it that, but it was up and running

31:23 Speaker 4: and they were trying to make entreaties out to the

31:26 Speaker 4: intelligence community and DoD Hey, they wanted input from and partners.

31:31 Speaker 3: Yeah.

31:31 Speaker 5: So I saw that emerge, and I saw it die.

31:34 Speaker 5: It's all die.

31:35 Speaker 3: And when you say exposure. We're going to get into this,

31:37 Speaker 3: but you mean it. Technically, it's called spillage. It's when

31:40 Speaker 3: you see something that is of a compartmentalized or nature

31:44 Speaker 3: that you are not specifically clear to see, and you

31:48 Speaker 3: were exposed to something and it was like, holy shit,

31:50 Speaker 3: what is this? And the first thoughts at that I'm

31:52 Speaker 3: interested in. So if we're at that point, yeah, okay,

31:55 Speaker 3: so let's talk about that. Look, the whole world that

31:58 Speaker 3: knows about incon maclic constellation. We're saying that word out loud.

32:03 Speaker 3: At one time that was very dangerous to say out loud,

32:06 Speaker 3: to write to text. We should talk about that. But

32:09 Speaker 3: before this is your gateway. This is the entrance point.

32:14 Speaker 3: What happened, How did it happen? What did you see?

32:17 Speaker 3: What did you think?

32:19 Speaker 5: Yeah, so the first exposure or the exposure to maclic

32:24 Speaker 5: constellation happened on a shared server that was shared by

32:29 Speaker 5: all the offices in OSD. What I was doing throughout,

32:34 Speaker 5: what I was doing at the time was opening files

32:36 Speaker 5: that were clearly misfiled and either sorting them to our

32:39 Speaker 5: offices you know, part of that server, or putting them

32:44 Speaker 5: in their own box to be sorted by other responsible

32:47 Speaker 5: Your jobs I mean this is more like volunteer duty.

32:50 Speaker 3: But yes, so because.

32:51 Speaker 4: You're a workaholic and you're curious and you read a lot,

32:56 Speaker 4: you come across a file that really is what leads

33:00 Speaker 4: us to be here today.

33:01 Speaker 5: It's this.

33:02 Speaker 4: It's the Shreiver file.

33:04 Speaker 5: Yeah, so it was labeled twenty eighteen Schreiver wargame. Might

33:10 Speaker 5: have been brief for something else, but that's it. There's

33:14 Speaker 5: nothing about that that screams you know, it's a very

33:16 Speaker 5: interesting thing. In fact, usually a lot of wargame briefs

33:19 Speaker 5: are pretty boring, so there's nothing that stood out about it.

33:24 Speaker 4: Accidental exposure for you one hundred percent. You go into it,

33:28 Speaker 4: and what do you see.

33:30 Speaker 5: There's just a generic title slide. There's a banner without

33:33 Speaker 5: classification markings that just says immaculate constellation. And it has

33:38 Speaker 5: a placeholder slide that shows like the Shreiver War or

33:43 Speaker 5: Shreiver air Base logo and some logos of the units involved.

33:48 Speaker 5: But at that time I believe it would have still

33:49 Speaker 5: been like Air Force Base commands adjacent, So still nothing

33:56 Speaker 5: particularly stunning. I think the name at the top probably

33:59 Speaker 5: just then of the exercise. So the next slide, though,

34:02 Speaker 5: is where it gets interesting because the face of Luela

34:06 Speaker 5: Zondo is on that next slide, and I was not

34:09 Speaker 5: who I was expecting to see, And it was accompanied

34:12 Speaker 5: by text to summarize, please have some grace with me.

34:18 Speaker 5: It's been seven years. But it was saying that Immaculate

34:23 Speaker 5: Constellation is an un of Knowledge Special Access program established

34:27 Speaker 5: after the exposure of a tip in twenty seventeen by

34:31 Speaker 5: former USDI officer Luela Zondo. And you know, that's the

34:37 Speaker 5: gist of that first slide. And so I'm looking at

34:40 Speaker 5: that and you know, nothing particularly convincing that that's alien

34:47 Speaker 5: related or what the SAP is or what it's doing.

34:52 Speaker 5: So I don't know what to make of this. So

34:54 Speaker 5: I read the whole thing and it got very interesting,

34:59 Speaker 5: very quick.

35:00 Speaker 3: So it's designated a SAP. You know, this is a SAP.

35:02 Speaker 3: It's sitting on a serve. Maybe it shouldn't be on

35:04 Speaker 3: correct right, So I think that's important. And also it

35:07 Speaker 3: seems like it's just a response to the public spillage

35:11 Speaker 3: or exposure that we saw come forward with people like

35:15 Speaker 3: and specifically Louel Azando. This was like an internal classified

35:18 Speaker 3: response to the fact, oh shit, some of this is

35:21 Speaker 3: out now.

35:22 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's exactly the tone of those words of that slide,

35:27 Speaker 5: and that's the implied order of events that led to

35:31 Speaker 5: being established.

35:32 Speaker 3: It's like twenty eighteen.

35:34 Speaker 5: Maybe, yeah, the file was at least last accessed in

35:38 Speaker 5: twenty eighteen. I can't remember if it did, say you

35:41 Speaker 5: know the file creation nator if I looked it up,

35:44 Speaker 5: but I know it was last access to And.

35:45 Speaker 3: You see who's accessed it prior to you? I can't

35:49 Speaker 3: And what did you see?

35:50 Speaker 5: So everyone says that I'm wrong, it's impossible. But the

35:52 Speaker 5: name I recall and recalled at the time, thinking oh

35:56 Speaker 5: that's odd. Was name redacted?

35:58 Speaker 3: And did you know who that was?

36:00 Speaker 5: Vaguely at that time? I you know, people are considered

36:04 Speaker 5: superstars in leadership circles, so you just hear names like that,

36:08 Speaker 5: and that's what her name was.

36:09 Speaker 3: Why would that be impossible? Why are people now in directors?

36:11 Speaker 3: Why are people telling you that would be impossible?

36:13 Speaker 5: Oh, she wasn't at the Pentagon? Then where was she?

36:18 Speaker 5: She was at the Pentagon to my knowledge, but they're

36:20 Speaker 5: saying she wasn't.

36:20 Speaker 3: There, right, interesting?

36:22 Speaker 4: So all right, so Shreiver war games used to keep reading.

36:25 Speaker 4: There's a big slide with Louella Zondo's face on it.

36:28 Speaker 4: What comes next? I mean you get a sense that

36:30 Speaker 4: I shouldn't be able to read this here.

36:33 Speaker 5: No, not yet. Actually, to be clear, at that point

36:36 Speaker 5: in time, I had no formal training in what SAPs were.

36:39 Speaker 5: There was no SAP marking on this, just a name

36:41 Speaker 5: Immaculate Constellation. The opening slide, you know, just we would

36:49 Speaker 5: call it improperly labeled, improperly classified. What was it? What

36:54 Speaker 5: did the show? So the next slide, the third slide

36:56 Speaker 5: about just jumps straight into the miss of the SAP

37:01 Speaker 5: and showing what apparently the results of that mission are.

37:05 Speaker 5: And it's a collection incident in the Pacific Ocean. The

37:11 Speaker 5: subject of collection is several Russian naval intelligence vessels in

37:16 Speaker 5: the middle of the ocean at night, and above those

37:19 Speaker 5: vessels is a large black triangle floating in the air.

37:24 Speaker 5: This is a still image, but it is a color.

37:27 Speaker 3: Okay, So that's the first kind of event. But what

37:30 Speaker 3: was the mission? What was the mission? That's what people

37:32 Speaker 3: want to know is what was the mission of Immaculate

37:33 Speaker 3: Constellation as described in the product.

37:36 Speaker 5: So in the product itself you had to piece together

37:39 Speaker 5: the mission by reading the whole thing and kind of

37:41 Speaker 5: putting together the parts. You know, it never spelled out

37:46 Speaker 5: fully like as it should the mission of the SAP,

37:51 Speaker 5: and I assume that's because this is a type of

37:53 Speaker 5: brief where there will be inserts to the deck which

37:56 Speaker 5: would be inserted by the SAP control officer during the briefing.

38:00 Speaker 5: That would provide another level of detail. But based on

38:04 Speaker 5: the information included in there and its description, the mission

38:08 Speaker 5: becomes apparent. And that is a bare minimum. It's the intelligence,

38:14 Speaker 5: surveillance and reconnaissance mission of globe of a global nature.

38:18 Speaker 5: For UAPs and r vs ARVs, the hesitation there is

38:24 Speaker 5: sometimes passed. One of those acronyms is in there, either

38:28 Speaker 5: r V or ARV, and that is how the triangle

38:32 Speaker 5: in this case was labeled.

38:35 Speaker 3: Been seven years. So as you're reading through this and that,

38:38 Speaker 3: you're remembering r V or ARV just for our audience.

38:41 Speaker 3: So RV is you know, reverse reproduction vehicle, and the

38:46 Speaker 3: ARV would mean ani reproduction.

38:50 Speaker 5: You know, we see people in the literature say alien

38:54 Speaker 5: reproduction vehicle. It could just be anomalous advance or advanced.

38:58 Speaker 5: It could be anything that can go after a So

39:02 Speaker 5: you don't know what that is, but I don't this

39:04 Speaker 5: is a pretty interesting image. Here it is. And then

39:06 Speaker 5: the text at the companies it describes the incident and

39:10 Speaker 5: can you tell us, Yeah, the summary of that is

39:13 Speaker 5: just the how how it unfolded. I should I should

39:16 Speaker 5: actually back up and say the image itself was unique.

39:19 Speaker 5: This isn't by a plane or a satellite. It looks

39:23 Speaker 5: to be a image pretty close to the waterline. So

39:27 Speaker 5: something that to me read is we have a clandestine

39:30 Speaker 5: submersible asset close by this fleet and it's taking pictures

39:35 Speaker 5: trying to stay unnoticed. And so yes. In the description,

39:39 Speaker 5: it basically lays out what occurred that night, which was

39:44 Speaker 5: that they are collection assets where they're in area monitoring

39:48 Speaker 5: Russian naval vessels. Not sure what they're doing there, but

39:52 Speaker 5: they've been hanging out in the middle of the ocean

39:54 Speaker 5: in this place apparently for a few days keep an

39:56 Speaker 5: eye on him. And this night, while they are being

40:00 Speaker 5: the Russian vessels, a large black triangle materializes or de

40:05 Speaker 5: cloaks or something. The point is is it did not move.

40:08 Speaker 5: It appeared above the directly above these ships, probably no

40:13 Speaker 5: more than two hundred meters, pretty close and interestingly, as

40:17 Speaker 5: noted in the report it self, there was no visible

40:19 Speaker 5: reaction from these vessels from what would almost certainly be

40:22 Speaker 5: considered a hostile approach.

40:25 Speaker 4: What do you take away from that they didn't notice it,

40:29 Speaker 4: or they're not upset about it, or they don't know

40:31 Speaker 4: what to do with it or what.

40:33 Speaker 5: So the implication also in the text describing it was

40:37 Speaker 5: I'm sorry I should say the analysis in the text

40:39 Speaker 5: was that the Russian Navy had fore knowledge that this

40:44 Speaker 5: vehicle would appear in that area of the ocean, and

40:47 Speaker 5: they were there specifically to either collect on it themselves

40:51 Speaker 5: or to interact with it in some way.

40:53 Speaker 4: Any indication that it might be there, so that they

40:55 Speaker 4: knew it's going to be there because they control.

40:56 Speaker 5: It, not in that document, And I haven't seen anything

41:02 Speaker 5: to make me think that they controlled that particular craft.

41:08 Speaker 5: But didn't see anything of the contrary either.

41:10 Speaker 4: I guess it could be that they've seen it before

41:12 Speaker 4: that there's nothing they can do about it, so don't

41:14 Speaker 4: get excited about it.

41:16 Speaker 5: It might be although it is interesting, you know, if

41:19 Speaker 5: it's something that's part of their environment, as it were,

41:21 Speaker 5: why are they making an effort to be in this

41:24 Speaker 5: space at this time to collect on something they already

41:27 Speaker 5: know about?

41:28 Speaker 4: Is it like in the middle of nowhere.

41:29 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's off the coast of Camp Chotka Is, as

41:32 Speaker 5: I recall, in the Pacific Ocean.

41:35 Speaker 3: That's what struck me. I My mind goes to the

41:37 Speaker 3: idea that they were kind of camped out, you know,

41:40 Speaker 3: deep kind of ocean in this one specific area durationally.

41:44 Speaker 3: It kind of implies to me, if I'm thinking outside

41:47 Speaker 3: the box here, there's some form of calms or communication

41:51 Speaker 3: with whoever the operators are of this craft. Am I

41:54 Speaker 3: going too far with that idea?

41:56 Speaker 5: I think it's a reasonable one to have, but it's

41:58 Speaker 5: not one that I can like validate.

42:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's be clear, you were exposed to something. We're

42:03 Speaker 3: just touching the base. It's here, we're theorizing. We're talking

42:07 Speaker 3: about a bunch of stuff. I don't know, But the

42:09 Speaker 3: descriptions that you were exposed to kind of give you

42:12 Speaker 3: a little insight that we can at least look at

42:14 Speaker 3: some of those assumptions.

42:15 Speaker 5: Right right right, absolutely, And I'm sure there's a literature

42:19 Speaker 5: out there that can help narrow down.

42:22 Speaker 4: So immaculate constellation. You've never heard this term before, and

42:27 Speaker 4: it doesn't give you the full picture there, But what

42:29 Speaker 4: other additional information did it give about what this was

42:33 Speaker 4: and how it operates.

42:34 Speaker 5: Just describe the events and that analysis of the event

42:37 Speaker 5: of the Russians having Foreknoledge to be there, and describing

42:41 Speaker 5: how the event occurred. As I just went over.

42:43 Speaker 3: So this is a page turner, So you know, you're

42:46 Speaker 3: just yeah, you're curious.

42:47 Speaker 5: Now, absolutely, what do you do next? What do you

42:49 Speaker 5: go to the next page? And it was disappointing because

42:51 Speaker 5: we get into a couple slides of orbs and I

42:55 Speaker 5: had already seen orbs at this point in an official setting.

42:57 Speaker 4: So the next page is shout orbs different parts of

43:00 Speaker 4: the world. It looks like the pattern is that there's

43:04 Speaker 4: under this immaculate constellation they're gathering UAP images from all

43:08 Speaker 4: over the play.

43:09 Speaker 7: Absolutely, I mean that's the core of it, right, is

43:11 Speaker 7: the idea that we collect data on these UAP and

43:18 Speaker 7: someone needs to bring them, correlate them together to provide

43:21 Speaker 7: intel to who needs it.

43:22 Speaker 3: And we're assuming or not assuming it's been pretty laid

43:25 Speaker 3: out the market constellation was a kind of place to

43:29 Speaker 3: bring everything together to provide those briefings to senior leadership.

43:33 Speaker 3: Is that correct.

43:35 Speaker 5: I don't know about to provide briefings, but definitely to

43:38 Speaker 5: collect data from the military intelligence enterprise specifically and the

43:44 Speaker 5: sensors associated with that, and yes, to collect that data,

43:48 Speaker 5: centralize it, and have it there for presumably both analysis

43:52 Speaker 5: and operational needs.

43:55 Speaker 4: The Schreiber wargames document with the images twelve pages, fifty

44:00 Speaker 4: pages somewhere in there.

44:01 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's yeah, twelve to fifteen, but probably more like yeah, twelve.

44:05 Speaker 4: And is that the only document you ever saw where

44:07 Speaker 4: the term immacula constellation.

44:09 Speaker 5: Was used until I wrote one.

44:11 Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll get into that, but instead of like, go through,

44:15 Speaker 3: people will be so curious, So what comes on the

44:17 Speaker 3: fourth page talks through the pages? Just go ahead.

44:20 Speaker 5: Yeah, So, I mean, like I said, the second series,

44:25 Speaker 5: second and third examples were less interesting to me, but

44:29 Speaker 5: you know they are images of orbs transitting from coastal

44:37 Speaker 5: facilities out to the ocean and sort of describing, you know,

44:42 Speaker 5: what those facilities were, as I think pete unspoken implication

44:48 Speaker 5: of why something like this would be out there, and yes,

44:53 Speaker 5: just a similar or just just a big not day,

44:56 Speaker 5: but a general description of we observed this coming from

45:00 Speaker 5: this direction or from where this facility, sensitive facility was

45:04 Speaker 5: left over the ocean. You know, this was our task

45:08 Speaker 5: asset and it happened on this date.

45:10 Speaker 3: Anything really striking, And the rest of that document that

45:14 Speaker 3: really highlighted to you anything else in that document is

45:18 Speaker 3: really striking.

45:19 Speaker 5: Yeah. So the last example of the four was back

45:23 Speaker 5: to Russia again, this time I believe in the Atlantic Ocean,

45:28 Speaker 5: and it shows another Russian intelligence vessel underway, this time

45:33 Speaker 5: at night. The image is green infrared and it shows

45:41 Speaker 5: above this Russian vessel another black triangle. But where is

45:46 Speaker 5: the first example? And the Pacific was an equilateral, large,

45:50 Speaker 5: pretty stunning object that was of comparable size to the

45:54 Speaker 5: vessels below it. This was a more definitely smaller is

45:57 Speaker 5: smaller than the vessel, and it was more angular in

46:02 Speaker 5: shape and sort of swept back. And it was also

46:06 Speaker 5: accompanied by text saying that there was no indication that

46:09 Speaker 5: the Russian vessel was responding in any way to this

46:12 Speaker 5: ship hovering above it. And this it did not describe

46:16 Speaker 5: in this instance whether it had miraculously appeared or if

46:18 Speaker 5: it was tailing the ship.

46:20 Speaker 3: But triangular in shape and hovering.

46:23 Speaker 5: Well, hovering, probably matching speed though too with the ship.

46:26 Speaker 3: Like Uss Russell, other people argue, and I don't care

46:30 Speaker 3: what shape it is. You know, when you have someone

46:32 Speaker 3: with rangefinders off of a ship that goes with it,

46:35 Speaker 3: stops with the ship continues. So this is not a

46:38 Speaker 3: new thing. This idea of triangular by angle of observation

46:41 Speaker 3: pyramid in shape, some would say, be right, So that's

46:45 Speaker 3: striking and you saw that.

46:46 Speaker 5: Too, yes, yeah, And that was the last example. After

46:50 Speaker 5: that was sort of a summary slide or two about

46:53 Speaker 5: just recapping like the fact that these incidents are we

46:57 Speaker 5: are collecting, sorry, we are collecting these incidents on the

47:00 Speaker 5: world that we are focused on u A p r

47:03 Speaker 5: B collection incidents by task and untasked assets and the

47:08 Speaker 5: collection and analysis of those data streams.

47:12 Speaker 3: So sometimes we know where it's going to be task assets.

47:15 Speaker 3: Sometimes we just happen to capture untasked ask.

47:18 Speaker 5: Correct correct And I think a good example is in

47:20 Speaker 5: that brief itself, where the ORB incidents appeared to be

47:24 Speaker 5: untasked assets. They were not there to collect on orbs.

47:27 Speaker 5: They were there to collect on something else and they

47:29 Speaker 5: happened to catch something. Whereas the two russianssents, we were there,

47:35 Speaker 5: we were there to watch the Russians and the Russians

47:37 Speaker 5: interactions with this technology.

47:39 Speaker 4: Wow, So your suspicions after seeing this twelve page report

47:43 Speaker 4: is that these are freeze frames of what are videos? Yeah, videos,

47:48 Speaker 4: So somewhere there's a bigger collection of this stuff that's

47:50 Speaker 4: also very interesting.

47:52 Speaker 5: Absolutely yeah, like uh, you know, there was informal collections

47:59 Speaker 5: of this stuff by interested people on those systems, and

48:04 Speaker 5: there's absolutely a professional mission task databases for this.

48:11 Speaker 3: Okay, so you've seen now you've had this exposure. You

48:16 Speaker 3: try to do the right thing, and you take great

48:19 Speaker 3: steps to try to do it. Takes a little while

48:22 Speaker 3: for you, it does, so, so explain that to me

48:24 Speaker 3: what you tried to do. So there you go. You

48:26 Speaker 3: see something that you know shouldn't be there on that archive.

48:29 Speaker 3: You know what happens? What do you do?

48:31 Speaker 5: Absolutely nothing? In fact, the first time I read that,

48:34 Speaker 5: I don't know what I just read. And if it's

48:36 Speaker 5: even real. Maybe somebody just made this thing.

48:39 Speaker 3: Okay, explain that so you can. It would be like

48:41 Speaker 3: a joke or something, or.

48:43 Speaker 5: They put it together literally for a war game. Right,

48:46 Speaker 5: they had maybe created an imaginary program that maybe they

48:50 Speaker 5: wanted to have, right, or a desired capability or something

48:55 Speaker 5: that was a representative of the true.

48:58 Speaker 3: Thing to be. And is that normal or common? Now

49:02 Speaker 3: that's a weird thought, and.

49:03 Speaker 5: It is a weird thought, but this is what's going

49:05 Speaker 5: through my head because it's so bizarre, okay, And you're like, oh,

49:10 Speaker 5: oh way, yeah, I'm going through everything, all the options

49:14 Speaker 5: why it's not what it is?

49:15 Speaker 3: Right?

49:16 Speaker 5: Yeah? And so I do nothing for some time, and

49:20 Speaker 5: then our office gets a training on like refresh training.

49:26 Speaker 5: But this was new in my career, so my first

49:28 Speaker 5: time on what to do in cases of spillage for

49:31 Speaker 5: SAP material. And I realized, well, no matter how weird

49:35 Speaker 5: this is, this has all the hallmarks of what you

49:37 Speaker 5: guys just said is a big fucking deal. So you know,

49:41 Speaker 5: I can either pretend like I didn't open and read

49:44 Speaker 5: this thing eighty times and hope that it doesn't notice

49:48 Speaker 5: that either, or I can report it myself. So I

49:51 Speaker 5: did that or I tried to do that.

49:53 Speaker 3: You tried to report it. You read it a bunch

49:56 Speaker 3: as it's fascinating, and then you try to report So

49:58 Speaker 3: what does that look like when you try to report that?

50:00 Speaker 3: Did you do so?

50:01 Speaker 5: The first time? I went just quietly to my I

50:06 Speaker 5: guess my immediate supervisor, a retired Army colonel.

50:10 Speaker 3: So you go to your supervisor superior, I.

50:14 Speaker 5: Gotta say, hey, I got to show you something in

50:16 Speaker 5: our in our closet, our whole office is a skiff,

50:19 Speaker 5: but inside the skiff is another tiny skiff, and I

50:23 Speaker 5: think we we have like a spillage things, and so

50:25 Speaker 5: I need to show it to you because this is

50:27 Speaker 5: apparently we're supposed to show it to your boss and

50:29 Speaker 5: then follow the reporting chain and you sign it. Hey,

50:31 Speaker 5: you sign a paper, and that's how it's supposed to

50:34 Speaker 5: be handled, all by the.

50:34 Speaker 3: Books, and they just trained you on it, and they'll

50:36 Speaker 3: be like, okay, here's what.

50:37 Speaker 5: I'm supposed to do, right exactly. So I tried to

50:39 Speaker 5: follow that while also being you know, quiet about it.

50:42 Speaker 5: Take him in and he's like, okay, so, so show

50:44 Speaker 5: me what you found. I pull up that slide and uh,

50:47 Speaker 5: you know, the first the first slide is just because

50:49 Speaker 5: of so generic gets no reaction. But then going to

50:52 Speaker 5: like maybe the second slide or even the third slide,

50:56 Speaker 5: he's just like, okay, stop, like stop, did you read this?

51:01 Speaker 5: And I don't answer, but I just look him in

51:03 Speaker 5: the eye and I look at the screen and I'm like, of.

51:08 Speaker 3: Course I've met this, that's how you know it exists.

51:11 Speaker 5: And he definitely picked up on that, and he the

51:13 Speaker 5: conversation ended with him saying, delete it, and he left

51:16 Speaker 5: the room and we never spoke of it again.

51:17 Speaker 4: He's cutting you some slack there in essence, without me knowing, Yes, yeah,

51:21 Speaker 4: you didn't read it, so you're not in any trouble.

51:24 Speaker 4: That's ended here.

51:25 Speaker 3: Delete it.

51:26 Speaker 5: And also, as I claim to learn, you know it,

51:30 Speaker 5: certain material you get exposed to, and it's you're kind

51:34 Speaker 5: of marked for life that that happened, and it's probably

51:37 Speaker 5: not good for your career at a minimum.

51:39 Speaker 3: We've seen other whistleboyer friends of ours have experiences like that.

51:43 Speaker 3: They're marked.

51:44 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I didn't realize that at the time, so

51:47 Speaker 5: that happened. I sit on that for a few days.

51:49 Speaker 5: Didn't sit right with me because I'm still thinking, like, well,

51:52 Speaker 5: that's not what we're supposed to do. I could do that,

51:55 Speaker 5: but everything, supposedly everything we do on those systems, every click,

51:58 Speaker 5: every keystroke is monitored. So like I just I need

52:01 Speaker 5: to self preservation. I need to do to keep trewing

52:05 Speaker 5: the right thing here. So I go to his boss

52:07 Speaker 5: or his boss's boss, I change my approach. I don't

52:11 Speaker 5: say what it is, I don't show it to them.

52:14 Speaker 5: I don't print it out, and I just say, ma'am,

52:18 Speaker 5: we have a spillage incident. I believe it's SAP material.

52:22 Speaker 5: You please provide guidance on how to handle this. And so.

52:27 Speaker 5: Through that I was connected to our parent offices special

52:33 Speaker 5: access Special Access Program Control officer had a meeting set

52:38 Speaker 5: up to go meet with them. A few days later

52:40 Speaker 5: that happened. I go to that meeting in a sap

52:46 Speaker 5: f SO where this material is supposed to be stored

52:49 Speaker 5: and handled, and this person says, okay, show me the material.

52:52 Speaker 5: So I sit down to write exactly what you're showing

52:57 Speaker 5: the material. I sit down, I pull it up. It's

53:00 Speaker 5: like it's right there at the top of the shared servers,

53:03 Speaker 5: though I'm not like it's it's almost instant, like this

53:05 Speaker 5: right there. I pull it up. I start scrolling through

53:08 Speaker 5: it from the bottom. I get no reaction. Then he says, okay,

53:10 Speaker 5: let me look at it. He takes my chair, he

53:13 Speaker 5: goes through, He scrolls through it, no reaction on his face.

53:16 Speaker 5: I'm watching him very closely at this point because I'm

53:18 Speaker 5: exceptionally curious about all of this. No reaction. Then he

53:23 Speaker 5: scrolls through it again and he makes a very deliberate

53:28 Speaker 5: scene where he pauses on lou Elizondo's slide and starts

53:32 Speaker 5: guffawing in a very non believable way and saying, somebody's

53:37 Speaker 5: having a joke this. You don't need to worry about this.

53:42 Speaker 5: You can go. And that's not the reaction I was expecting.

53:45 Speaker 5: I was expecting to at the very least sign the

53:47 Speaker 5: paper right saying, you know, this incident happened, reported it,

53:51 Speaker 5: signed it, Yeah, it's done, so you know. I try

53:57 Speaker 5: to ask him like, are you sure like that? Do

53:58 Speaker 5: I need to sign or anything. He's like, no, you

54:00 Speaker 5: can go. And so I left that room and I

54:04 Speaker 5: never ever had anything about that incident come up again.

54:09 Speaker 3: Except immediately went and checked again for the file.

54:12 Speaker 5: Yeah, I went upstairs and I went to see what

54:14 Speaker 5: had happened, and it was gone.

54:16 Speaker 4: So the idea that it could have been a war game,

54:18 Speaker 4: could it have been something you know some of these

54:20 Speaker 4: UFOs that have been seen over nuclear missile bases, silos

54:23 Speaker 4: and things of that sort. There, The implication has been,

54:26 Speaker 4: as with drones, that it's a readiness test to sub

54:29 Speaker 4: sort We're going to put some secret operation unexpected and

54:34 Speaker 4: see how people and systems react to it. Could that

54:37 Speaker 4: have been what was gone on here?

54:40 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it is something that you know, on

54:44 Speaker 5: the surface level, appears plausible. I do not believe that

54:48 Speaker 5: to be the case, given the circumstances of how it

54:51 Speaker 5: was located, the fact that hundreds of people had access

54:54 Speaker 5: to that system, the fact of it's generic labeling it

54:58 Speaker 5: wasn't you know, there's no red flags on that to

55:00 Speaker 5: draw any draw any fish, to de bait as it were,

55:05 Speaker 5: to catch somebody. And then the process of reporting it,

55:09 Speaker 5: you know that there's no outcome from that besides apparently

55:13 Speaker 5: making a lot of people pissed off and worried and

55:16 Speaker 5: kind of scared.

55:16 Speaker 3: And let me add to that, such something that we noticed,

55:19 Speaker 3: and I believe it's true reporting, which is it when

55:21 Speaker 3: David Gresh testified imact of the constellation before the world

55:25 Speaker 3: ever knew those words, was searched on Google a ton. Additionally,

55:30 Speaker 3: over the research and time and sources that we have,

55:34 Speaker 3: you know, it has been confirmed to us under no

55:36 Speaker 3: uncertain terms. That was the name of a program with

55:40 Speaker 3: that nature. So if we're looking at it as like

55:43 Speaker 3: a lark kind of thing, we get to the point

55:46 Speaker 3: where there's too many outside confirmation after the fact as

55:49 Speaker 3: well as that. Yeah, if that had been.

55:51 Speaker 5: The only thing I had seen in none of the

55:55 Speaker 5: rest of this saga had happened, right, we wouldn't be

55:58 Speaker 5: talking totally.

56:00 Speaker 4: You wrote in a paper that was submitted to Congress,

56:04 Speaker 4: and we'll go to a lot of details in that,

56:07 Speaker 4: but that this was deeply disturbing overall. Why was it

56:10 Speaker 4: disturbing to you?

56:12 Speaker 5: Yeah, So as time passed, it became disturbing, especially after

56:20 Speaker 5: the sort of the process of Grush coming forward left

56:28 Speaker 5: awake on the inside too, people were tracking that weren't

56:33 Speaker 5: even involved, but were able to see sort of the

56:35 Speaker 5: distortions on the inside, distortions of truth exactly, but also,

56:41 Speaker 5: you know, bureaucracies and offices behaving weirdly around this subject,

56:47 Speaker 5: and sort of the movements for reaching out to Congress

56:51 Speaker 5: to get legislation drafted that eventually became that Intelligence Authorization

56:55 Speaker 5: Act and that first NDAA where they provided whistle blower protections.

57:01 Speaker 5: I think that that was one of the moments that

57:05 Speaker 5: really started to convince me that this was this was

57:11 Speaker 5: not under our government's control.

57:17 Speaker 3: That's our core of why we're talking today. What do

57:20 Speaker 3: you mean.

57:23 Speaker 5: Just on an emotional level and blood analysis. Why the

57:28 Speaker 5: hell is Congress passing a law asking for UFO insiders

57:32 Speaker 5: from the intelligence and military military community to come talk

57:35 Speaker 5: to them directly under amnesty about something that doesn't exist.

57:38 Speaker 5: Isn't an issue, and if it is does exist, it

57:42 Speaker 5: is an issue, but it's secret. Apparently our most sensitive

57:47 Speaker 5: congressional committees are not briefed on this.

57:50 Speaker 3: Yeah, I find it at the core disturbing you having

57:54 Speaker 3: Arrow even asked for whistleblowers to come forward to them,

57:58 Speaker 3: having convers asking for wistleblowers to con under amnesty to

58:01 Speaker 3: come to them. Yes, something's rotten.

58:03 Speaker 5: And then also at the same time seeing the sort

58:07 Speaker 5: of EUAP Task Force and its slow death on the

58:11 Speaker 5: inside and the death of the you know, sort of

58:14 Speaker 5: open exchange of ideas and problem solving going on. There

58:18 Speaker 5: was another data point that pointed to something rotten. And

58:23 Speaker 5: the last one that really sealed it and really convinced

58:27 Speaker 5: me that I need to find a way to bring

58:31 Speaker 5: this to Congress, no matter how small it might be,

58:34 Speaker 5: it apparently matters. Was when I was in USDI, I

58:38 Speaker 5: read the transcripts of Sean K. Patrick briefing Senator Rubio,

58:42 Speaker 5: Senator Warren, and Senator Gillibrand on the results of his

58:46 Speaker 5: investigation in his congressionally tasked Arrow report in those transcripts,

58:52 Speaker 5: which were supposed to be a open kimono, here's the truth,

58:57 Speaker 5: mister senator, Miss Senator ok Patrick absolutely distorted downplay and

59:05 Speaker 5: can't prove it. But I would say outright lied to

59:07 Speaker 5: to the people who have direct responsibility.

59:10 Speaker 4: For him, saying what what would what did you say?

59:12 Speaker 5: That was a lot So it's more of a lie

59:15 Speaker 5: of the whole picture, the big picture right in the meeting,

59:19 Speaker 5: it's you know, oh, we you know, Congressman Rubio, you know,

59:23 Speaker 5: we've we've heard about this incident. Uh, we just don't

59:27 Speaker 5: have enough data to go on it to really know

59:29 Speaker 5: what this is. We don't have any way of really

59:32 Speaker 5: figuring out what's going on. It could just be an anomaly.

59:35 Speaker 5: In fact, it's most likely anomaly. So starting with an

59:37 Speaker 5: acknowledgement that you know here you oh, yeah, you have

59:40 Speaker 5: some data, but we have the insight and the scientific

59:43 Speaker 5: expertise to make you feel at ease. Nothing to see here, folks,

59:47 Speaker 5: moving exactly. Although there was also political discussion involved in

59:51 Speaker 5: historic discussion, and you know, I read these transcripts once, uh,

59:58 Speaker 5: and immediately knew it.

1:00:05 Speaker 4: Yeah, veiled threat.

1:00:07 Speaker 5: No, I knew that. I was now something else I was.

1:00:13 Speaker 5: I had inside knowledge into the deception of our government

1:00:16 Speaker 5: by elements of our intelligence community. My blood ran cold.

1:00:21 Speaker 5: A specific point in that transcript where mister Rubio is

1:00:25 Speaker 5: discussing the Legacy Program. This was a subject of direct

1:00:30 Speaker 5: discussion with Sean Kirkpatrick in these meetings, and based on

1:00:34 Speaker 5: mister Patrick's replies about as vague as they were but

1:00:39 Speaker 5: unable to escape the truth of the Legacy Program, mister

1:00:43 Speaker 5: Rubio's response was, well, what the hell is the executive

1:00:46 Speaker 5: branch doing? Have they been running this for sixty years

1:00:48 Speaker 5: without congressional oversight? I might be paraphrasing a little, but

1:00:52 Speaker 5: that's near enough verbatim. And I saw that line and

1:00:55 Speaker 5: I basically closed that file and had a pre sleepless night.

1:01:01 Speaker 4: All Right, you said your blood ran cold, meaning you're pissed, you're.

1:01:04 Speaker 5: Spooked, scared. What is scared? Scared for your country? I

1:01:09 Speaker 5: just think in general, it's like a I don't know,

1:01:11 Speaker 5: there was nothing associated. It was just like immediate, oh fuck,

1:01:16 Speaker 5: good response.

1:01:17 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you now know this is real. This

1:01:19 Speaker 4: is a cover up. They are lying about this stuff.

1:01:22 Speaker 5: Yeah, at that point I definitely knew the phenomenon was

1:01:24 Speaker 5: absolutely really. I knew we were tracking it. I knew

1:01:27 Speaker 5: we had lots of resources on it for some time.

1:01:30 Speaker 5: But getting to that final like step in the ladder,

1:01:34 Speaker 5: that seemed like, oh, and the cover up is real

1:01:37 Speaker 5: and it's inside the house.

1:01:39 Speaker 4: Give us a sense of it. You read one document

1:01:41 Speaker 4: that said immaculate constellation and had some images with it.

1:01:44 Speaker 4: What additional information did you come across that reinforced your

1:01:47 Speaker 4: belief that there is a big surveillance program collecting this stuff?

1:01:53 Speaker 5: Well, I mean one is just that the fact of

1:01:56 Speaker 5: its existence. Right in the brief, it's talking about the

1:01:58 Speaker 5: general mission. It's given examples, but it's clearly talking about

1:02:01 Speaker 5: a collection mission. And then there's programs that have since

1:02:05 Speaker 5: become public. The most relevant one in this case is

1:02:08 Speaker 5: the NRO sentient program that kind of, at least in

1:02:13 Speaker 5: the open source way, demonstrates how you don't need a

1:02:16 Speaker 5: massive workforce to do this anymore. You don't need buildings

1:02:22 Speaker 5: without windows for acres to people taking this information and

1:02:26 Speaker 5: sanitizing it, making it sure it gets to the right

1:02:29 Speaker 5: people without the wrong things in it. And that's just

1:02:32 Speaker 5: on the inside.

1:02:33 Speaker 3: Right, like you don't also need exposure to a bunch

1:02:35 Speaker 3: of human beings with individual egos and identities. To be clear,

1:02:39 Speaker 3: there's kind of AI siphoning off of data and information

1:02:42 Speaker 3: to keep it compartmentalized without spine of human eyes, even

1:02:45 Speaker 3: within our intelligence agencies. If I'm understanding it.

1:02:48 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a bit of a Janus, a two faced god.

1:02:50 Speaker 5: It takes things in one end and make sure you

1:02:52 Speaker 5: hear what you need to hear out the other.

1:02:54 Speaker 3: Right, and you suspect that UAP when that data is

1:02:58 Speaker 3: collected and brought in and ingested, that there is a

1:03:02 Speaker 3: whitewashing or not whitewashing of it. There's a clarifying of

1:03:06 Speaker 3: that stuff to make sure that general people in intellig

1:03:09 Speaker 3: just can you.

1:03:09 Speaker 5: Don't see it absolutely And that's a long standing practice

1:03:12 Speaker 5: for especially for imagery intelligence. Just nothing about UFOs. You know,

1:03:17 Speaker 5: back in the Cold War days, if something a facility

1:03:20 Speaker 5: or an aerospace platform was seen that sorry was collected,

1:03:27 Speaker 5: you know there would be either there'd be a full

1:03:29 Speaker 5: version right for those who needed it. But if you

1:03:32 Speaker 5: just needed to see the facility but maybe not the plane,

1:03:35 Speaker 5: you know, those would be manually excized. Now we have

1:03:39 Speaker 5: tools to do that for us?

1:03:40 Speaker 4: Could you describe then for us how you think this works,

1:03:44 Speaker 4: whatever the name for it is, now, how it works

1:03:47 Speaker 4: due did we have an AI system in twenty eighteen

1:03:50 Speaker 4: that could do what we're describing?

1:03:52 Speaker 5: Well, we know we did. Those documents have since become

1:03:55 Speaker 5: public sentience. Sentience, right, And the fact that sentient operational

1:04:01 Speaker 5: at those dates of the documents mean it was operational

1:04:04 Speaker 5: for years before then, years before twenty eighteen.

1:04:07 Speaker 4: You know, We've had our conversations private and otherwise about

1:04:11 Speaker 4: this kind of an operation, and it just seems like, gosh,

1:04:14 Speaker 4: there should be somebody who's collecting all this information and

1:04:17 Speaker 4: studying it and trying to figure it out. And the

1:04:19 Speaker 4: fact that it goes into the executive branch somewhere, if

1:04:21 Speaker 4: that's what happens to it, good, I'm glad somebody is

1:04:24 Speaker 4: doing it. Why is that, as you've learned about it,

1:04:27 Speaker 4: Why is that not necessarily a good idea?

1:04:30 Speaker 5: Is it?

1:04:30 Speaker 4: Because it's not maybe really within the executive branch that

1:04:33 Speaker 4: it's an entity undo itself?

1:04:35 Speaker 5: Why it may not be a good idea to censor

1:04:38 Speaker 5: our intelligence products that are circulated within our cleared community

1:04:42 Speaker 5: to our service members that are on the front lines

1:04:44 Speaker 5: every day. Is because you are blinding them to their environment,

1:04:50 Speaker 5: you are opening them to threats, you're exposing them to risks,

1:04:54 Speaker 5: and you are essentially inhibiting the pursuit of national security

1:04:58 Speaker 5: objectives by doing so. So there's a reason you guys

1:05:01 Speaker 5: have talked to so many whistleblowers from the military who

1:05:04 Speaker 5: see these things. That's because partially because they're reporting it,

1:05:08 Speaker 5: they feel endangered by it, and nothing is being done

1:05:11 Speaker 5: and no answers are being given, and they are in

1:05:14 Speaker 5: some cases suffering legitimate injuries.

1:05:18 Speaker 4: These images that would pop up here and there on

1:05:21 Speaker 4: some system, on some platform, this AI program that was

1:05:26 Speaker 4: once called Immaculate Constellation, it would grab them, take them away,

1:05:29 Speaker 4: and then they're gone from those platforms, those places, so

1:05:32 Speaker 4: like CIA or so.

1:05:34 Speaker 5: I believe where it could it. You know, the data

1:05:37 Speaker 5: was ingested essentially in a you know a stovepipe, right

1:05:42 Speaker 5: it's locked off, it goes in, it goes into the

1:05:46 Speaker 5: black box, and then a product comes out for what

1:05:48 Speaker 5: you're cleared to see and what you have a need

1:05:49 Speaker 5: to not to see.

1:05:50 Speaker 4: Wouldn't somebody say, hey, where's my image that I recorded?

1:05:53 Speaker 4: And then where to go?

1:05:55 Speaker 5: There's a lot of people who have had incidents like that.

1:05:58 Speaker 5: Helps you have to remember there's a lot of surveillance

1:06:00 Speaker 5: and reconnaissance platforms. Not all these are controlled by military

1:06:04 Speaker 5: or national intelligence. And the thing I believe a lot

1:06:08 Speaker 5: of what was you know, circulated for some time among

1:06:12 Speaker 5: the community was people at combatant commands or with operational units.

1:06:18 Speaker 5: They have their own platforms. Essentially they control that data

1:06:21 Speaker 5: to a large degree, and they were able to decide

1:06:23 Speaker 5: that it goes on jwix, not into the black box. Right.

1:06:27 Speaker 3: So, I've heard this over and over and over that

1:06:29 Speaker 3: there are these pipelines of communication, let's say overseas to Scentcom,

1:06:35 Speaker 3: but there's a squeezing point, there's a narrowing point where

1:06:38 Speaker 3: stuff doesn't get where it's intended to get, and that

1:06:40 Speaker 3: that's been a problem operationally, especially when it comes to

1:06:43 Speaker 3: UAP stuff. People have tried to track and follow what

1:06:46 Speaker 3: they've submitted and it didn't get where that it needed to.

1:06:48 Speaker 3: It's been siphoned off. To be clear, Macula Constellation is

1:06:51 Speaker 3: not an AI scrubbing program, just you know, so our

1:06:55 Speaker 3: audience understands that we've described what maclt constellation is, but

1:06:59 Speaker 3: that is an element we suspect from the literature and

1:07:03 Speaker 3: knowledge of what is public that there is that capability

1:07:06 Speaker 3: to scrub instead of like air brushing out ufros from

1:07:10 Speaker 3: NASA or something.

1:07:11 Speaker 5: And part of the way of knowing what this is

1:07:16 Speaker 5: is knowing who in the d D at least has

1:07:19 Speaker 5: primary responsibility over SAPs. OSD policy really only has control

1:07:24 Speaker 5: over operational SAPs and logistical SAPs. Then you will have

1:07:28 Speaker 5: OSD Research and Engineering and Acquisition sustatement. They will have

1:07:33 Speaker 5: your science and technology SAPs that they are the people

1:07:36 Speaker 5: who r up who they're the gatekeepers for that world.

1:07:39 Speaker 5: And then you'll have your intelligence or USDI in this case,

1:07:44 Speaker 5: their SAPs and caps and those are intelligence apps. They

1:07:48 Speaker 5: are the primary keepers of that. So the implication there

1:07:52 Speaker 5: is that you know if OSD policy is being briefed

1:07:56 Speaker 5: on that emactly. Constellation is a parent SAP, not for

1:07:59 Speaker 5: eight specific platform, but for a mission.

1:08:03 Speaker 3: I think the core of this for me is at

1:08:05 Speaker 3: one point Matt realized, holy shit, this is real. This

1:08:10 Speaker 3: is a problem, and people are being lied to people

1:08:13 Speaker 3: that need to know the truth that it's being siphoned

1:08:17 Speaker 3: off outside of control of what should be our representative government.

1:08:21 Speaker 3: And let me know if I'm saying anything that's wrong

1:08:23 Speaker 3: from your perspective, But I think there's a point that

1:08:25 Speaker 3: he hits like you and I have hit. We're being

1:08:27 Speaker 3: fucking lied to and it's becoming dangerous. Your first sentence

1:08:31 Speaker 3: in the report that we fought to get on congressional record.

1:08:34 Speaker 3: We'll get into that. We've fought for that together. This

1:08:38 Speaker 3: document is a result of a multi year internal investigation

1:08:42 Speaker 3: into the subject of unidentified anomalist phenomena. That first sentence

1:08:46 Speaker 3: in your report that we fought to get into congressional

1:08:50 Speaker 3: record for a reason. So basically your blood goes cold.

1:08:55 Speaker 3: You're like, oh fuck, and then you do a multi

1:08:58 Speaker 3: year internal destigation explaining that's your first sentence.

1:09:01 Speaker 5: What did you do at the time of that knowledge?

1:09:07 Speaker 5: You know, I was still in the Pentagon, but I

1:09:10 Speaker 5: was not a whistleblower. My investigation at that point was

1:09:14 Speaker 5: in the pursuit of my duties encountering WMD, also my

1:09:19 Speaker 5: professional curiosity. You went deep, Well, the report is you know,

1:09:23 Speaker 5: seven categories of evidence, right in macic constellation is the

1:09:27 Speaker 5: tension of grabber, but it's the one where there's the

1:09:31 Speaker 5: least amount of detail, right, So I basically conducted my

1:09:36 Speaker 5: own amateur all source analysis of what the US government,

1:09:43 Speaker 5: specifically the do D, because that's what I had access

1:09:45 Speaker 5: to knew about UAPs, and I collected that information and

1:09:51 Speaker 5: sought out a way to go to Congress because they

1:09:54 Speaker 5: asked and provided amnesty for whistleblowers. If they did not

1:09:58 Speaker 5: want that, they should not have written that into a law.

1:10:00 Speaker 3: Right they said they did, And you started to go

1:10:02 Speaker 3: down that path. And that's our kind of next step

1:10:05 Speaker 3: is you're seeking whistleblower protection. Okay, So now you realize

1:10:08 Speaker 3: you got to do something, and you feel compelled. I

1:10:10 Speaker 3: think we understand why he feels compelled. It's dangerous you

1:10:14 Speaker 3: seek whistleblower protection officially. Is that the next step or

1:10:17 Speaker 3: what's the next step?

1:10:19 Speaker 5: The next step is to figure out how to even

1:10:21 Speaker 5: get to Congress, okay, And actually a little bit before that,

1:10:24 Speaker 5: to figure out, like am I even needed Okay, because

1:10:28 Speaker 5: at this point, you know, the legislation was there, but

1:10:30 Speaker 5: grush was not. I was aware of people on the inside,

1:10:34 Speaker 5: some of who have since become public, some of who

1:10:36 Speaker 5: have not, who the very least shared an interest in

1:10:40 Speaker 5: this getting a wider exposure in the intelligence community. So

1:10:45 Speaker 5: I started talking to people in that world and trying

1:10:50 Speaker 5: to quietly figure out, you know, what's the state of play?

1:10:55 Speaker 5: Is what I have valuable or needed?

1:10:58 Speaker 3: Should or do I need to go forward?

1:10:59 Speaker 5: Right?

1:11:00 Speaker 3: Right?

1:11:00 Speaker 5: So there is a long feeling out period. There lots

1:11:04 Speaker 5: of mistakes made, but those were mistakes born of risk

1:11:07 Speaker 5: because you know this this is there's no channels for this,

1:11:13 Speaker 5: there's official process, and I'm literally in the belly of

1:11:17 Speaker 5: the beast.

1:11:17 Speaker 4: Back to constellation, you begin to get the sense that

1:11:21 Speaker 4: it is, in fact a constellation with a lot of

1:11:23 Speaker 4: individual stars or stove pipes underneath it. Could you describe

1:11:27 Speaker 4: that structure what you learned and how you learned it?

1:11:30 Speaker 5: So that just that's just more of a nature of SAPs,

1:11:34 Speaker 5: apparently learning and how they're constructed, and especially how the

1:11:38 Speaker 5: internal security for SAPs is run. I think you guys

1:11:42 Speaker 5: have reported on it that the budget for security is

1:11:45 Speaker 5: much higher than the budget for the actual research on this,

1:11:48 Speaker 5: and that is a very there's very real world effects

1:11:51 Speaker 5: as I came to learn.

1:11:53 Speaker 4: Describe those. For example, you're you're telling us that you

1:11:56 Speaker 4: realize the guys you're working for or lie? Yeah, do

1:11:59 Speaker 4: you start to feel marked because of your interest in

1:12:02 Speaker 4: this or do you make mistakes that put you in

1:12:05 Speaker 4: somebody's crosshairs.

1:12:07 Speaker 5: So there was no indication that anything untoward was thought

1:12:11 Speaker 5: about me as far as I knew, nobody even knew

1:12:15 Speaker 5: I was interested in this stuff.

1:12:16 Speaker 3: You feel a sense of duty Congress sea so no,

1:12:18 Speaker 3: you know they've been lied to specifically, people tell you, yeah,

1:12:22 Speaker 3: this is an important piece to the puzzle, and you

1:12:24 Speaker 3: felt a sense of patriotic duty to do that, and

1:12:27 Speaker 3: so you took steps to that. You said, cool, they're

1:12:29 Speaker 3: going to give me whistleblower protections. I am a whistleblower.

1:12:32 Speaker 3: What happened? How did you do that? What were the steps?

1:12:36 Speaker 5: So I had to find them. There was no way

1:12:42 Speaker 5: that I could find to get into contact with Congress.

1:12:44 Speaker 5: I tried, So then I started talking to other people

1:12:48 Speaker 5: who were at that time more vocal about their intent

1:12:52 Speaker 5: to be a whistleblower to Congress internally.

1:12:54 Speaker 3: More vocal yes on classified syst.

1:12:56 Speaker 5: Yes, or in not so much on systems, but in

1:13:00 Speaker 5: classified facilities, verbal conversations. So meant one person who did

1:13:08 Speaker 5: go forward kind of watched that person without letting them

1:13:14 Speaker 5: know what I knew to see you know what they

1:13:17 Speaker 5: were doing and how it went for them. At that time,

1:13:20 Speaker 5: it just seemed to be The report was, you know,

1:13:22 Speaker 5: I went in, talked with the staff. The staff then

1:13:25 Speaker 5: had a separate meeting to talk with the member. And

1:13:29 Speaker 5: there's no paperwork, no lawyers involved. It's just you're in,

1:13:32 Speaker 5: you say what you have to say, and you're out.

1:13:35 Speaker 3: That's the channel. No repercussion. That's what they said. We

1:13:38 Speaker 3: know all of those people as.

1:13:39 Speaker 5: Well, the assumption, none of there's not a sop written.

1:13:42 Speaker 5: Now you know, this is what I'm learning.

1:13:44 Speaker 8: And observing, and you told them what you know correct officially, Yeah,

1:13:50 Speaker 8: the first meeting, I wouldn't say I was especially transparent

1:13:55 Speaker 8: going in.

1:13:56 Speaker 5: Remember I knew it. I knew my bosses were lying.

1:14:01 Speaker 5: I'm talking to a permanent member of the Senate staff,

1:14:04 Speaker 5: not a member on the elect representative. I don't know

1:14:07 Speaker 5: what there.

1:14:07 Speaker 3: Could have been bait, you would have been careful. It

1:14:09 Speaker 3: could have been bait.

1:14:10 Speaker 5: So I shared, you know, the tension grabber, the in

1:14:14 Speaker 5: con story, and slowly worked my way around those other

1:14:19 Speaker 5: categories of evidence, but left it at like, you know,

1:14:22 Speaker 5: I got more to say, but like you know, we

1:14:24 Speaker 5: should probably do you want me to say more? Like

1:14:27 Speaker 5: what comes next? So that meeting was had. I spoke

1:14:32 Speaker 5: to that person in the skiff in the Heart Senate

1:14:34 Speaker 5: Office building. I signed my name on the log my

1:14:37 Speaker 5: true name on the logbook on August seventeenth.

1:14:40 Speaker 3: We've been into that skiff and to enjoy three that

1:14:42 Speaker 3: line as well.

1:14:44 Speaker 5: So unless that page goes missing into there.

1:14:47 Speaker 3: Yep, you got balls at church bells man. I' mean

1:14:51 Speaker 3: going in there and doing this on charted territory, just

1:14:55 Speaker 3: trying to do the right thing. I can kind of

1:14:56 Speaker 3: feel it. You know that that's a difficult thing, and

1:14:59 Speaker 3: you did it, and you went in.

1:15:00 Speaker 4: Yeah.

1:15:01 Speaker 5: I don't know who to trust them either. So what

1:15:04 Speaker 5: happens next is I'm told, okay, so we're going to

1:15:07 Speaker 5: set you up. To be clear, I spoke to a

1:15:10 Speaker 5: staff member from SISSY. I was told that next you

1:15:13 Speaker 5: will speak to a staff member from SASK and then

1:15:15 Speaker 5: we will have a meeting with both SASK and SISSY,

1:15:18 Speaker 5: with the elected members of Congress there and the two

1:15:21 Speaker 5: people or sorry, and the STAFFERSTO. That's what was supposed

1:15:25 Speaker 5: to happen. So I feel a little better leaving this meeting. Actually,

1:15:29 Speaker 5: the person I interact with seemed very genuine, took my

1:15:33 Speaker 5: concerns for safety very seriously and perhaps oddly, but it

1:15:41 Speaker 5: was somewhat comforting. Seemed to know more than me, because

1:15:43 Speaker 5: at that point I hadn't really meant anyone who at

1:15:46 Speaker 5: least willingly was going to answer questions, and seemed like

1:15:50 Speaker 5: they knew even a degree of what I knew at

1:15:53 Speaker 5: the time. So yeah, I felt like, Okay, we're on track.

1:15:56 Speaker 5: There's a process here. Congress actually is getting this under control.

1:16:00 Speaker 5: I'll have these meetings and it's you know, I got

1:16:05 Speaker 5: a handshake, maybe a nice little thank you, and I

1:16:08 Speaker 5: feel like I did my duty and I can get

1:16:10 Speaker 5: back to my career.

1:16:11 Speaker 3: They're asking you to come forward, and you do it.

1:16:14 Speaker 5: So none of those meetings ever happen. Weeks go by,

1:16:18 Speaker 5: or reach out, Hey is this going on? Like I

1:16:22 Speaker 5: told you I had more. I want to give that

1:16:24 Speaker 5: more to you, So I don't have it. When can

1:16:28 Speaker 5: we meet? Got the run around, and then eventually the

1:16:32 Speaker 5: blunts reply like, you either send me what you have

1:16:35 Speaker 5: in writing here on this non official channel, or you

1:16:42 Speaker 5: know you don't and we don't need it. So I

1:16:46 Speaker 5: sent that extra information and then for many months I thought,

1:16:52 Speaker 5: you know, I'm done.

1:16:54 Speaker 4: It's disillusioning, isn't it that the Congress has made a

1:16:57 Speaker 4: show of this Hey, we want the information. We're going

1:16:59 Speaker 4: to pass this legislation protect whistleblowers. Come on and tell

1:17:03 Speaker 4: us this stuff, and then the channels really don't work.

1:17:05 Speaker 5: I came to be dissolution at the time. I just

1:17:09 Speaker 5: I came to believe like, Okay, I had something that

1:17:12 Speaker 5: was of minor importance. I'm just really not important enough

1:17:15 Speaker 5: to talk to anymore. So you're the little guy. Shut up,

1:17:17 Speaker 5: we don't need you anymore or else.

1:17:19 Speaker 3: Fun just the fear, right, the fear that you're you're

1:17:21 Speaker 3: trying to do the right thing, the sensitive topic. You know,

1:17:23 Speaker 3: people are lying. Who do you trust, and all of

1:17:26 Speaker 3: a sudden you do what they say. There's got to

1:17:28 Speaker 3: be fear. They're like, oh shit, should I have opened

1:17:30 Speaker 3: my mouth?

1:17:31 Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah. But I think at that point, though it

1:17:33 Speaker 5: was mostly hurt, I still thought like, I guess I'm

1:17:36 Speaker 5: too small, but too small, and I guess you guys

1:17:38 Speaker 5: got this already when I talked. To be clear, David

1:17:40 Speaker 5: Grush had just spoken the month before or before then.

1:17:44 Speaker 5: I was clear, like, hey, you know, this meeting has

1:17:46 Speaker 5: been in the work for months. I saw David Gresh's testimony.

1:17:49 Speaker 5: I don't even know if you need what I have

1:17:50 Speaker 5: anymore hurt. This guy seems to have it all. But yeah,

1:17:55 Speaker 5: they still wanted to talk.

1:17:56 Speaker 3: Right.

1:17:56 Speaker 4: Did there come a time then when you start meeting

1:17:59 Speaker 4: physically me with other people who are sort of like

1:18:02 Speaker 4: whistleblowers or at least making sounds like whistleblowers.

1:18:06 Speaker 5: Yeah, so that came about. The person who connected me

1:18:09 Speaker 5: to Congress started trying to make a network of people

1:18:13 Speaker 5: in the IC and the military, you know, for what ends.

1:18:18 Speaker 5: It was kind of vague, but it was more of

1:18:20 Speaker 5: at least a community of interests, maybe looking towards like

1:18:24 Speaker 5: a group of current and former national security employees that

1:18:28 Speaker 5: can you know, be a resource to the Congress, can

1:18:30 Speaker 5: call onto either like you know, speak or just to

1:18:33 Speaker 5: like make a statement.

1:18:34 Speaker 3: You know, le Jake getting organized.

1:18:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, you've got to be thinking, well, look, I'm going

1:18:37 Speaker 4: to go hear from some other people, see what their

1:18:39 Speaker 4: experienced and like made me I'm doing this right. There's

1:18:42 Speaker 4: another way to do it.

1:18:43 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, at that point I had accepted that,

1:18:46 Speaker 5: you know, they didn't need my information. I didn't feel

1:18:48 Speaker 5: like there was anything left to do. Now I'm back

1:18:50 Speaker 5: at well, I just want to know what's going on.

1:18:53 Speaker 5: These are the people like me sort of.

1:18:56 Speaker 3: Did you have to tell your bosses, Hey, I'm under

1:18:59 Speaker 3: whistleblower protection. Allegedly, I went and whistleblw Did you have

1:19:02 Speaker 3: to tell your bosses at your normal job?

1:19:04 Speaker 5: No, I did not tell my bosses at this point

1:19:07 Speaker 5: in time. I was at the Department of State when

1:19:09 Speaker 5: I was a whistleblower. To be very clear, I was

1:19:11 Speaker 5: a whistle blower when I sorry, I was at a

1:19:13 Speaker 5: Department of State employee when I reached out to Congress,

1:19:17 Speaker 5: and I was a Department of State employee when I

1:19:19 Speaker 5: spoke to Congress. So I get another job with an FFRDC.

1:19:24 Speaker 5: I was going to work at DHQ doing nuclear force planning.

1:19:27 Speaker 5: Pretty cool job, yeah, and then last minute, a job

1:19:32 Speaker 5: posting goes up from the Department of State and I'm

1:19:34 Speaker 5: told about it. I kind of knew some of the

1:19:35 Speaker 5: people at the State Department program, so that was a

1:19:40 Speaker 5: bit of a draw. If I feel like I need

1:19:42 Speaker 5: some protection, this could be this could work out well

1:19:47 Speaker 5: on the long term. So at the time it was

1:19:49 Speaker 5: kind of self interest there, whereas like, yeah, if I

1:19:51 Speaker 5: need to cover my ass and write something and have

1:19:56 Speaker 5: it not be redacted, this is a good place to

1:19:59 Speaker 5: do it.

1:20:00 Speaker 3: That's pre planning right, and that comes from a sense

1:20:03 Speaker 3: of a worry, a sense of fear in a way,

1:20:06 Speaker 3: you have to protect yourself. State Department's a good place.

1:20:08 Speaker 3: You're already thinking ahead. You're not doing pre pubs so

1:20:11 Speaker 3: you can write a book or be in a movie.

1:20:13 Speaker 3: You're doing pre pub to protect your ass.

1:20:15 Speaker 4: You've got a new job at the State Department. You

1:20:17 Speaker 4: have in the back of your mind. Look, if I

1:20:19 Speaker 4: decided to take it a step further, this is a

1:20:21 Speaker 4: good place to do that, right. What's your job at

1:20:23 Speaker 4: State Department? And did you like it?

1:20:25 Speaker 5: Yeah? So my job was on paper sort of similar

1:20:30 Speaker 5: to what I had done at the Pentagon working encountering

1:20:34 Speaker 5: WMD A cool job.

1:20:35 Speaker 3: Why was it cool?

1:20:36 Speaker 4: So?

1:20:36 Speaker 5: The State's part one was mainly the draw I mean

1:20:39 Speaker 5: is to travel, and is to travel to, you know,

1:20:42 Speaker 5: countries that I wanted to in my case in Europe,

1:20:47 Speaker 5: you know, you're interacting with universities, industry groups, government sort

1:20:53 Speaker 5: of associations. Much more slower speed, much less dark and

1:21:00 Speaker 5: grim and in the real world as it were.

1:21:05 Speaker 4: Was there ever a period where you're thinking, maybe I'm

1:21:08 Speaker 4: just leaving this you uap st up behind me and

1:21:11 Speaker 4: oh no, no, no, you've never hooked. You were done.

1:21:15 Speaker 5: Well, I mean the subject matter obviously, and then knowing

1:21:20 Speaker 5: what I knew about the situation government, you know, I

1:21:25 Speaker 5: don't think it's something that you know, you have that

1:21:27 Speaker 5: level of knowledge that you can leave behind.

1:21:30 Speaker 3: Morally you couldn't.

1:21:31 Speaker 5: Yeah, morally. And also is it's still to this day

1:21:34 Speaker 5: is endlessly fascinating, right, But my job would have nothing

1:21:38 Speaker 5: to do with that. And yeah, I I it felt

1:21:45 Speaker 5: like at this point, again, I had not gone to Congress,

1:21:48 Speaker 5: but I had met people who either were going to

1:21:50 Speaker 5: or had felt like, you know, okay, somebody's it's handled.

1:21:54 Speaker 5: People seem more senior than me, who have connections and

1:21:57 Speaker 5: know what they're talking about. Are they got this? So

1:22:00 Speaker 5: I can rest easy?

1:22:02 Speaker 3: Let it go?

1:22:03 Speaker 4: At what one did you read the transcripts of Sean

1:22:06 Speaker 4: Kirkpatrick speaking to the senators? Was that at the State Department?

1:22:09 Speaker 5: No, that was at USDI.

1:22:10 Speaker 4: I'm just trying to figure out at what point you

1:22:13 Speaker 4: decided all right, you know I tried to go to Congress.

1:22:17 Speaker 4: Obviously you knew that arrow wasn't the way to go,

1:22:19 Speaker 4: So you had to make a decision at some point.

1:22:22 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm going to take some action some way.

1:22:24 Speaker 5: Yeah, so the the NDA language comes out. I recognize

1:22:29 Speaker 5: how serious that is. I'm talking with these people, even

1:22:32 Speaker 5: though now I'm at States, I'm still tracking what's going

1:22:36 Speaker 5: on and start getting the the scuttle, but that you know,

1:22:41 Speaker 5: somebody big is going to come forward and you know

1:22:45 Speaker 5: the implications of what they had to say are like

1:22:47 Speaker 5: not good. And they're making these people who are more

1:22:51 Speaker 5: senior than me feel or talk about like you know

1:22:54 Speaker 5: that there's corruption involved, that there is a conspiracy, conspiracy involved,

1:23:02 Speaker 5: nothing is being whispered, but you know, things start to

1:23:04 Speaker 5: feel like, oh maybe this isn't so just a Cold

1:23:08 Speaker 5: war black program that was allowed to go on for

1:23:10 Speaker 5: too long and now just coming in from the cold,

1:23:12 Speaker 5: all nice and cute, like something much darker.

1:23:17 Speaker 3: Right.

1:23:18 Speaker 4: You see people like Dave Grush come forward and get slimed.

1:23:21 Speaker 4: You know that there are other whistleblowers who have come

1:23:24 Speaker 4: forward bits and pieces there. You have to realize at

1:23:28 Speaker 4: some point there's a lot of risk and taken action.

1:23:32 Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean I went forwards in such close proximity

1:23:34 Speaker 5: to Grush that I didn't have at that time, I

1:23:38 Speaker 5: hadn't observed you know, the blowback. It looked like from

1:23:42 Speaker 5: the outside that you know, he had some friction on

1:23:48 Speaker 5: his way there, but looked like he got to Congress,

1:23:51 Speaker 5: was saying the right things, and Congress was going to do.

1:23:54 Speaker 4: Something about his momentum.

1:23:55 Speaker 5: There's momentum, and you know, I again at that time,

1:23:58 Speaker 5: I was already in talks to go talk to Congress,

1:24:04 Speaker 5: just at that point, not so much like, you know,

1:24:08 Speaker 5: out of fear and desperation, just as like, yeah, they're

1:24:12 Speaker 5: asking for people. It seems like they needed right no

1:24:15 Speaker 5: matter how small, it seems like it's important. And this

1:24:18 Speaker 5: person told me it was important. They balloted this person

1:24:20 Speaker 5: I met with, I met with one on one. I

1:24:23 Speaker 5: told them about this you sap which at the time,

1:24:25 Speaker 5: you know, I still to myself, I was like, I

1:24:27 Speaker 5: don't know if it's real or not. You say you've

1:24:29 Speaker 5: been to Congress and you know these things firsthand, Like

1:24:31 Speaker 5: is this it said? It was? And yeah, so have

1:24:38 Speaker 5: those interactions that we've already been over where do things

1:24:43 Speaker 5: start going for me? What's the phrase here? More serious

1:24:52 Speaker 5: is after Congress, after sorry, after speaking to Congress as

1:24:57 Speaker 5: a whistleblower, I interact with continue to interact with this

1:25:01 Speaker 5: person who was trying or at least they told me

1:25:04 Speaker 5: they were trying to start a fund for whistleblowers to

1:25:07 Speaker 5: help get people out of the Legacy program who wanted

1:25:10 Speaker 5: to speak but couldn't because they're both afraid of their

1:25:13 Speaker 5: life and their livelihood. And I thought, well, there's something

1:25:15 Speaker 5: I can help with good at writing paper, you know,

1:25:20 Speaker 5: we'll make this organization that can contribute there. And so

1:25:24 Speaker 5: the honeymoon phase of you know, I I spoke my

1:25:29 Speaker 5: piece and now it looks like I'm helping the good guys,

1:25:32 Speaker 5: and things aren't that serious continues after August of twenty

1:25:36 Speaker 5: twenty three. The result of that is sorry, the result

1:25:40 Speaker 5: of grush and all that we get the UAP disclosure acts,

1:25:43 Speaker 5: or at the attempt to do it. And so I

1:25:46 Speaker 5: think when that failed was the first blow to that

1:25:54 Speaker 5: hope that, you know, things would be handled constitutionally, constitutionally.

1:26:00 Speaker 4: Is there a point at which you see, let's call

1:26:03 Speaker 4: it the whistleblower community, a small group of fairly small

1:26:07 Speaker 4: group of people who have different stories, that you become

1:26:10 Speaker 4: disillusioned with them and with their media contacts who are

1:26:14 Speaker 4: being fed bits and pieces of information.

1:26:17 Speaker 5: Now yes, then no, there also wasn't as much media

1:26:23 Speaker 5: penetration or connection whatever, you want to term it in

1:26:26 Speaker 5: those circles at least that I was a part of.

1:26:29 Speaker 4: In those days, did you consider going to.

1:26:32 Speaker 5: No I had no outreach, no connections to media, and

1:26:37 Speaker 5: I was not pursuing connections to media at all.

1:26:39 Speaker 3: And you know, to be fair, you're kind of navigating

1:26:42 Speaker 3: all of this stuff. You're seeking advice from people, trying

1:26:45 Speaker 3: to figure out what do I do. And you're a

1:26:49 Speaker 3: smart guy, and you look at the world and you

1:26:51 Speaker 3: start reaching out to a couple people or they're being

1:26:54 Speaker 3: introduced to you, like myself, and you're kind of feeling

1:26:57 Speaker 3: it out too, like you know, what is the best

1:26:59 Speaker 3: path for here?

1:27:01 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's so sort of What happens next is the

1:27:04 Speaker 5: uap DA fails. And before that we get word it's

1:27:07 Speaker 5: going to fail. And this person tells me that Congress

1:27:12 Speaker 5: needs people to start fires to try to save the

1:27:15 Speaker 5: uap DA. I ask him, are you serious? Is Congress

1:27:20 Speaker 5: has told you to ask people to make some noise

1:27:23 Speaker 5: and try to save this thing? That person told me yes,

1:27:27 Speaker 5: And so then I started trying to find some media

1:27:32 Speaker 5: personalities who could potentially be trusted. One of my next steps,

1:27:37 Speaker 5: which was, well, now I got to get something cleared

1:27:39 Speaker 5: but then set back in a different way, which is, well, ship,

1:27:44 Speaker 5: we still have all these people apparently who are in danger.

1:27:47 Speaker 5: There's no help from the government, there's no help from Congress,

1:27:50 Speaker 5: there's no help from Arrow Arrow, there's no help from

1:27:55 Speaker 5: people who say they care about humanity, but they're actually

1:28:00 Speaker 5: don't bear that out. So back to square one, and

1:28:03 Speaker 5: for me, square one is going back and re engaging

1:28:05 Speaker 5: with Congress. So I reach out in that. Yeah, I

1:28:12 Speaker 5: guess this would be winter of twenty four twenty three

1:28:18 Speaker 5: around there. Back to my Sissy connection, and that person

1:28:24 Speaker 5: I learned had since moved on, and he connected me

1:28:27 Speaker 5: to the current person, a current staff member for Sissy

1:28:30 Speaker 5: who's handled this, arranged a meeting in a few months

1:28:34 Speaker 5: because I told them, Hey, I'm going to just First

1:28:36 Speaker 5: of all, I asked like, hey, did you get any

1:28:38 Speaker 5: of my testimony? The answer was no, or at least

1:28:42 Speaker 5: that was the claimed answer. So I said, well, did

1:28:45 Speaker 5: you get any notes? Like I know he took notes.

1:28:47 Speaker 5: Did you get notes of what I said? Nah? So

1:28:50 Speaker 5: I okay, you know what, I'm going to write this

1:28:51 Speaker 5: all up for you guys. You have it and you

1:28:53 Speaker 5: can't lose it, and you're going to guarantee to me

1:28:56 Speaker 5: that this is not just going to stay with Sissy.

1:28:58 Speaker 5: It is going to go to sask, is going to

1:29:00 Speaker 5: go to hask and it is going to go to

1:29:01 Speaker 5: Hipsy like it was promised before.

1:29:02 Speaker 4: But never did those acronyms, meaning for the Senate committees

1:29:06 Speaker 4: and the Health committance that would deal with these classroide

1:29:09 Speaker 4: sensitive stuff.

1:29:10 Speaker 3: You're like, fuck this, I'm writing it all down, writing down,

1:29:13 Speaker 3: going to make it really your problem.

1:29:15 Speaker 5: Right, And you gave me amnesty. Do you want this,

1:29:19 Speaker 5: I'm giving it to you, right. So I spend some

1:29:24 Speaker 5: weeks laboriously typing this out hidden drives on encrypted drives,

1:29:34 Speaker 5: using open source software, only only opening it when I

1:29:38 Speaker 5: know I'm not connected to anything on a new device.

1:29:42 Speaker 5: Not a very fun drafting process. And that's just the

1:29:47 Speaker 5: technical aspects of trying to be secure about it at

1:29:49 Speaker 5: this point. And I'm on definitely no illusions that the

1:29:54 Speaker 5: US government some capacity knows about me. I'm mainly concerned

1:29:57 Speaker 5: about foreign intelligence, their possibility of collecting on on me.

1:30:02 Speaker 5: I'm in DC, spy capital of the world. I I

1:30:08 Speaker 5: was very concerned about that and wanted to do even

1:30:10 Speaker 5: the writing of this the correct way. Uh So, during

1:30:15 Speaker 5: that time draft this uh, I observe what's going on,

1:30:24 Speaker 5: continues to go on, the the final death of the

1:30:28 Speaker 5: U U A p U A p Disclosure Act one

1:30:31 Speaker 5: and the attempt to get the second one, which is

1:30:33 Speaker 5: totally watered down and not even worth our time to consider.

1:30:40 Speaker 5: And I go and I have a meeting with Sissy,

1:30:44 Speaker 5: give them the paper. It's a much longer version of

1:30:48 Speaker 5: the report, both in my analysis and the level of detail,

1:30:52 Speaker 5: additional detail and the evidentiary evidentiary sections including the various

1:30:59 Speaker 5: compartments and programs that they could themselves look into to

1:31:04 Speaker 5: access the same information that I saw, which is ridiculous

1:31:07 Speaker 5: that Congress has no access to. Gave all that to them,

1:31:15 Speaker 5: then really had the press to even get to peace

1:31:18 Speaker 5: speak to sask eventually got to speak to Saska permittent

1:31:22 Speaker 5: staff that I believe the raverer and office building. Then

1:31:27 Speaker 5: after I had met with both Sissy and SASK, I

1:31:32 Speaker 5: I after I met with Sissy, but before I finally

1:31:36 Speaker 5: met WITHASK, I submitted a version of this report to

1:31:39 Speaker 5: the State Department. So I after I gave it to

1:31:43 Speaker 5: them the first time, they said thank you very much

1:31:49 Speaker 5: and then never heard again.

1:31:51 Speaker 6: Didn't even I mean, they're asking keep going on, they're

1:31:54 Speaker 6: asking for you to come and they're asking for this,

1:31:57 Speaker 6: and you're so I designed kick open doors, right, Sally,

1:32:00 Speaker 6: please this exactly.

1:32:02 Speaker 5: So I decided to make myself a little dangerous and said, hey,

1:32:05 Speaker 5: I'm going to submit this for pre pub review to

1:32:08 Speaker 5: and I'm going to brief my leadership at State Department

1:32:12 Speaker 5: on this, which it did, and then after briefing them,

1:32:16 Speaker 5: I submitted it to pre pub review and at the

1:32:20 Speaker 5: State Department met with SASK provided a copy of the

1:32:24 Speaker 5: full report, and at that time the cleared one before

1:32:29 Speaker 5: if that ever reached any media sources, so that they

1:32:31 Speaker 5: knew what the media would see before anyone else. You know,

1:32:35 Speaker 5: doing what I thought was only fair. You know, you

1:32:38 Speaker 5: want you're our leaders, you want control, you want this

1:32:42 Speaker 5: to go the right way. I'm giving you full insight

1:32:45 Speaker 5: into what my words are. You can tell me at

1:32:47 Speaker 5: any time to stop or what to change in my.

1:32:50 Speaker 3: Words, nothing transparent. But also you ain't fucking around anymore, right, Yeah.

1:32:54 Speaker 5: No pushback at all, none except for not after this

1:33:00 Speaker 5: sasas being never getting access to house at that time

1:33:03 Speaker 5: you make this and no access to members still and

1:33:05 Speaker 5: that's where.

1:33:06 Speaker 4: We start a process, but right, so you make the submission,

1:33:10 Speaker 4: you get an answer back up what's it say?

1:33:15 Speaker 5: You know, I get no redactions requested and essentially a

1:33:20 Speaker 5: one word, sorry, one sentence answer.

1:33:23 Speaker 4: You may proceed, not exactly something. It gives you a

1:33:28 Speaker 4: lot of confidence at all as well. But I mean

1:33:30 Speaker 4: it sounds like they're saying, go ahead, we have no

1:33:32 Speaker 4: problem with it.

1:33:33 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean we have the emails. You can read

1:33:37 Speaker 5: between the lines and also the tone. Certainly nobody there

1:33:40 Speaker 5: was thrilled about what I was doing.

1:33:42 Speaker 3: Right, but they weren't stopping you. And you know a

1:33:44 Speaker 3: lot of people hear about dops or and that kind

1:33:46 Speaker 3: of thing, and this is a very interesting way to

1:33:49 Speaker 3: go about it. You get pre pubbed through State Department,

1:33:52 Speaker 3: which later Sean ker Patrick and became public made some

1:33:54 Speaker 3: disparaging comments about what gets passed through when it comes

1:33:58 Speaker 3: to going through State harmit doesn't matter. Basically, it's a

1:34:02 Speaker 3: process for you to cover your ass and we'll inform

1:34:05 Speaker 3: everybody and say I'm not messing around here. We go

1:34:10 Speaker 3: and get you get it all written out, you get

1:34:11 Speaker 3: approved and one sentence you know, email back that we've

1:34:15 Speaker 3: seen and you don't have high level of confidence right of, Like, well,

1:34:20 Speaker 3: what does that mean? Can I move forward?

1:34:22 Speaker 4: So there you are.

1:34:23 Speaker 3: What happens next?

1:34:25 Speaker 5: I fly out to California and meet with Michael Schellenberger HM.

1:34:29 Speaker 5: I told him, Hey, I got a story for you.

1:34:31 Speaker 5: Would you like to chat with me? You know, I

1:34:35 Speaker 5: had met him previously, very briefly, totally something unrelated, and

1:34:41 Speaker 5: his work on in the Twitter files defending you know,

1:34:44 Speaker 5: free speech against a very pervasive and insiduous censorship regime,

1:34:49 Speaker 5: regime that our government, even before the Biden administration had implemented,

1:34:54 Speaker 5: inspired me that he would do the right thing.

1:34:56 Speaker 3: Logical, great choice, you know. That was My hope is

1:34:59 Speaker 3: to have a lot of journjournalists working on this from

1:35:01 Speaker 3: different angles so you can trust who are honest. So

1:35:05 Speaker 3: that's where your head's at.

1:35:06 Speaker 5: Yeah, So before we have a good we have a

1:35:08 Speaker 5: good meeting, I show him the document. This has been

1:35:12 Speaker 5: cleared by state. You know, you know, I would prefer

1:35:15 Speaker 5: to like maybe cut it down because it's pretty long,

1:35:19 Speaker 5: but you get to look at it and are you interested.

1:35:21 Speaker 5: The answer is yes, We're going to do a story

1:35:24 Speaker 5: that's in summer of twenty four I believe early summer,

1:35:27 Speaker 5: late spring. So with that in hand, and knowing that

1:35:31 Speaker 5: I had at least tap tapped Sask and Sissy, thought

1:35:38 Speaker 5: it was okay to move forward with that story and

1:35:40 Speaker 5: then try to talk to House with you know, the

1:35:43 Speaker 5: full details in the meantime before that story came out.

1:35:47 Speaker 5: You know, it takes time to bet things. He has

1:35:50 Speaker 5: to look into me, just you know, find out who

1:35:52 Speaker 5: I am, look into the details of what I'm alleging.

1:35:55 Speaker 3: You know, I know that Georgian and I know the

1:35:57 Speaker 3: process well.

1:35:58 Speaker 5: So it takes months, you know. So I got some time,

1:36:00 Speaker 5: and in that time, I for the first time get

1:36:02 Speaker 5: connected with David Grush. I have a very enlightening conversation

1:36:07 Speaker 5: with him, and at his suggestion, he connected me with you,

1:36:12 Speaker 5: and that is how we came to meet.

1:36:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm looking not to report on what you're

1:36:17 Speaker 3: saying initially, I'm looking to help you achieve the goal

1:36:21 Speaker 3: that we're all fighting for, which is getting the people

1:36:23 Speaker 3: asking for the information. This doesn't have to be public,

1:36:26 Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be a public display. This is

1:36:29 Speaker 3: let's facilitate these conversations. That's where we started. I'm not

1:36:33 Speaker 3: really doing journalism work with you. I'm trying to just

1:36:36 Speaker 3: help the process go That's how that was my headspace.

1:36:39 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was asking Grush, like, I'm having a real

1:36:41 Speaker 5: hard time a meeting members themselves and be just even

1:36:44 Speaker 5: talking to anybody house, who's the guy to go to?

1:36:47 Speaker 5: And it was you, okay, So that was our the

1:36:50 Speaker 5: nature of our meeting.

1:36:52 Speaker 3: George and I have had a great relationship trying to

1:36:54 Speaker 3: help facilitate information, knowledge and human beings in this sort

1:36:57 Speaker 3: of thing. So it makes sense. It was a good movie.

1:37:00 Speaker 3: We did well with David Grush. So George and Ize

1:37:05 Speaker 3: our role oftentimes is to connect people. We are reporters.

1:37:09 Speaker 3: It is to break stories, tell the news. But really

1:37:14 Speaker 3: a lot of what I was personally doing was trying

1:37:17 Speaker 3: to facilitate, help facilitate the process they're asking for. At

1:37:22 Speaker 3: that time, we had had a great hearing. David Grush

1:37:27 Speaker 3: also a fravor who had a beg to testify. It

1:37:31 Speaker 3: was great, it was a success. Everything was clean on

1:37:33 Speaker 3: that one. On that hearing. This was a new thing,

1:37:36 Speaker 3: a new era. It felt different from the get go,

1:37:39 Speaker 3: but the idea was we're going to have another set

1:37:40 Speaker 3: of hearings. I'm all for that. They tapped me to

1:37:43 Speaker 3: try to help connect them with people, and George and

1:37:45 Speaker 3: so we've had many calls, through many processes, and now

1:37:49 Speaker 3: I'm out there to have meetings directly about firsthand people

1:37:53 Speaker 3: with firsthand experience who can directly testify about this, whether

1:37:56 Speaker 3: they talk publicly or not, this is the information you need.

1:38:00 Speaker 3: So I go to have these established meetings. You and

1:38:03 Speaker 3: I meet, I do you know physically, and we talk

1:38:07 Speaker 3: about it, and you want to come with me, and

1:38:08 Speaker 3: I can bring you in, but I can't let them

1:38:10 Speaker 3: know because we're still trying to protect you, trying to

1:38:12 Speaker 3: pet your identity. So it was kind of like we'll

1:38:15 Speaker 3: talk about it more in depilated, but a kind of

1:38:16 Speaker 3: harrowing experience. You were very nervous. I mean it was

1:38:19 Speaker 3: like you're exposing yourself in the in the you know,

1:38:23 Speaker 3: in those meetings.

1:38:24 Speaker 5: Absolutely right, and just by walking into those offices or

1:38:28 Speaker 5: the buildings those offices are in.

1:38:30 Speaker 3: Right right, So you public very public. So we kind

1:38:33 Speaker 3: of hid you in the in the camera cruise the

1:38:35 Speaker 3: way I say it, and that you were walking with

1:38:37 Speaker 3: us and getting into the buildings. But I asked each member,

1:38:41 Speaker 3: I said, okay, you wanted direct people, I have one

1:38:44 Speaker 3: here to speak with you. Everybody needs to leave the room,

1:38:47 Speaker 3: including the cameras, it'll just be us. Is that cool?

1:38:50 Speaker 3: And each one although they gave us wisdom along the

1:38:53 Speaker 3: way as we did our progression of getting you right

1:38:55 Speaker 3: in front of people to give them your quick testimony

1:38:58 Speaker 3: and some documentation. So that's what we went through. And

1:39:03 Speaker 3: we go in and there you are, You're sitting in

1:39:05 Speaker 3: front of and you know, somebody with position. I just

1:39:09 Speaker 3: want to know what did that feel like? First of all,

1:39:11 Speaker 3: that that that moment where you've got to finally get

1:39:13 Speaker 3: to them.

1:39:16 Speaker 5: I mean, in the moment, it just was somber, serious. Also,

1:39:24 Speaker 5: you know, nervous. I got a I got like, you know,

1:39:27 Speaker 5: so it's five minutes, but I only have probably like

1:39:29 Speaker 5: a minute to speak.

1:39:30 Speaker 3: Bro. You were sweat and you were stressed. I mean

1:39:32 Speaker 3: it was it was intense.

1:39:33 Speaker 5: So getting yeah, getting the most important information across and

1:39:38 Speaker 5: also establishing my credibilious past as possible.

1:39:43 Speaker 3: And I was making sure you were a fucking plant,

1:39:45 Speaker 3: you know, to be honest. That was part of the process,

1:39:47 Speaker 3: is making sure he'd say the same thing too, you know,

1:39:51 Speaker 3: to to Congress, that that to members, that that he

1:39:54 Speaker 3: said to me, not that I didn't believe you and

1:39:56 Speaker 3: I had done the vetting, and I was there, but

1:39:59 Speaker 3: I want to here you say it, show it, so

1:40:01 Speaker 3: you're not trying to entrap me. I mean, honestly, that's

1:40:04 Speaker 3: part of my thing. Man. We got through that, didn't

1:40:07 Speaker 3: we did.

1:40:09 Speaker 4: It worked well, it did, so you come out of

1:40:11 Speaker 4: that thinking, okay, all right, this is good. I made contact.

1:40:15 Speaker 4: Maybe we'll see where it.

1:40:16 Speaker 3: Goes mold Yeah, yeah, pretty strong.

1:40:19 Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, at this point in time, I'm very

1:40:23 Speaker 5: Actually a skeptico is not the right word. I do

1:40:25 Speaker 5: not believe, did not believe that this would work in Congress,

1:40:28 Speaker 5: but I knew that the attempt had to be made.

1:40:30 Speaker 5: We had to try. We had to try. I knew

1:40:33 Speaker 5: that I alone wasn't big enough or important enough to

1:40:37 Speaker 5: shift the tides of history there to shift what apparently

1:40:41 Speaker 5: the executive branch had decided, which was, we are going

1:40:43 Speaker 5: to squash this, and anybody that tries to bring it up,

1:40:47 Speaker 5: we are going to you know, silence cut out in disparage.

1:40:53 Speaker 3: They were asking for whistleblowers, and there we are, and

1:40:57 Speaker 3: he's blowing the whistle on this, and that's what they

1:40:59 Speaker 3: were asking for. So for me, it was a big

1:41:02 Speaker 3: win for them to meet you face to face because

1:41:04 Speaker 3: I knew down the line if this is going to progress, Look,

1:41:06 Speaker 3: you would have testified. Let's get real clear on this.

1:41:09 Speaker 3: They were asking for it, you would have testified. You

1:41:14 Speaker 3: were not asking to testify. You're saying, here's the little

1:41:17 Speaker 3: piece that I have. But you you said in that

1:41:18 Speaker 3: room that you would if if requested.

1:41:21 Speaker 5: I would if asked. And I did not want to

1:41:23 Speaker 5: do it at the upcoming hearing, of course, because that

1:41:25 Speaker 5: was very close and I in no way felt ready

1:41:28 Speaker 5: to do that.

1:41:28 Speaker 3: But you put the ball in their court. I said

1:41:31 Speaker 3: you would. They didn't ask, right, and we got to

1:41:33 Speaker 3: there's a whole thing about that, but just you really

1:41:35 Speaker 3: put it out there.

1:41:36 Speaker 5: I did.

1:41:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay.

1:41:39 Speaker 5: I think it'll take white a change in our present

1:41:46 Speaker 5: circumstances for anybody to ever testify under oath on this

1:41:49 Speaker 5: subject again in a way that would make a difference.

1:41:53 Speaker 5: I think they know the power of in and open

1:41:59 Speaker 5: hearing and putting your hand on the Bible and swearing

1:42:03 Speaker 5: that you're going to speak nothing but the truth and

1:42:04 Speaker 5: doing so. It's symbolic and it's very valuable, and that

1:42:08 Speaker 5: is why I believe that they are desperately attempting to deny.

1:42:12 Speaker 3: Well in natural that's what we saw. You know, we

1:42:14 Speaker 3: don't got to rehash that. That's what we saw. The

1:42:16 Speaker 3: second hearing absolutely controlled represented. Burchett testified to it by

1:42:21 Speaker 3: saying it publicly that the executive branch did limit what

1:42:25 Speaker 3: could be set and by who. And George has brought

1:42:27 Speaker 3: that up a bunch when you know so, so I.

1:42:30 Speaker 5: Agree, executive branch in the halls of Congress determining what

1:42:35 Speaker 5: the business of Congress is, and not even through the

1:42:38 Speaker 5: courtesy of a phone call to the Vice president of

1:42:40 Speaker 5: the president, but through minions and stooges unelected probably Cia.

1:42:47 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, certainly, yeah.

1:42:49 Speaker 4: Would you when you hear about the lineup for the

1:42:51 Speaker 4: hearing that was held, you've got to be feeling pretty

1:42:55 Speaker 4: good about it.

1:42:55 Speaker 5: Joe.

1:42:55 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's going to be a witness. He's going to

1:42:57 Speaker 4: talk about immaculate constellation.

1:42:59 Speaker 5: And not just a witness us on his own, next

1:43:00 Speaker 5: to lou Elizondo, Tim Galladett and this guy I've never

1:43:04 Speaker 5: heard of before but seems nice. Nick Gold or Michael Great,

1:43:08 Speaker 5: they're all right, good, all right.

1:43:10 Speaker 4: It's going to come out.

1:43:10 Speaker 5: We're all punked.

1:43:11 Speaker 4: Did you know exactly what was going to be discussed

1:43:14 Speaker 4: by the Schellenberger.

1:43:15 Speaker 5: At that point, I asked, I mean I knew it

1:43:17 Speaker 5: was going to be you know, me and my words

1:43:21 Speaker 5: and my report.

1:43:24 Speaker 4: Because the two of you met with him the night

1:43:26 Speaker 4: before the hearing.

1:43:27 Speaker 5: Well, yeah, and I mean I I met with Michael

1:43:31 Speaker 5: to give him the story. I seem like, there's no

1:43:33 Speaker 5: mystery here why they're bringing him.

1:43:35 Speaker 3: There was a lot before that too, But I mean,

1:43:38 Speaker 3: I have a two plus a month process of prompting

1:43:42 Speaker 3: trying to get something on congressional record, knowing that what

1:43:45 Speaker 3: your testimony was valuable. It wasn't just like spur of

1:43:49 Speaker 3: the moment. There is a process. It was three major

1:43:52 Speaker 3: meetings that occurred to validate the information that you provided

1:43:58 Speaker 3: to me. It's it's not just like so getting on

1:44:01 Speaker 3: something on congressional record is a little bit more tricky

1:44:05 Speaker 3: than people think. They have to have time with it.

1:44:07 Speaker 3: So I very slowly with your authorization over those months,

1:44:11 Speaker 3: had in person meetings, not just you being there, but

1:44:14 Speaker 3: then working with them showing them the information, so they

1:44:18 Speaker 3: had time to that. They're worried about getting scammed too, right,

1:44:21 Speaker 3: So it was a process, This process that for me

1:44:24 Speaker 3: was very artuous personally.

1:44:27 Speaker 4: There are a lot of phone conversations that we said

1:44:29 Speaker 4: and on with House staff, and it got curious or

1:44:34 Speaker 4: and curious or is that the people who were in

1:44:37 Speaker 4: on these these conversations.

1:44:38 Speaker 3: With us on the other security folks just popping in

1:44:40 Speaker 3: on a meeting that I'm supposed to be having with them.

1:44:42 Speaker 3: You know, they wanted to know what assets George and

1:44:44 Speaker 3: I have to visually show them we were going to

1:44:46 Speaker 3: provide them. They were saying at one point that we

1:44:49 Speaker 3: were going to testify, and I said, cool, and I

1:44:50 Speaker 3: want to give something substantial to the American public. This

1:44:53 Speaker 3: is what I want to give them. Well, you know,

1:44:55 Speaker 3: at some point they're trying to get us into a skiff,

1:44:58 Speaker 3: and my federal lawyer, our federal lawyer said, do not

1:45:02 Speaker 3: go in there because they will immediately classify all that

1:45:05 Speaker 3: information that alleged the U Mayo access to and then

1:45:08 Speaker 3: you're never reporting on it. So we went through our

1:45:11 Speaker 3: own journey. We don't have to get into that in

1:45:13 Speaker 3: this discussion. But there was a lot of stuff happening

1:45:16 Speaker 3: behind the scenes. But hurrah, hooray Congressional record your report

1:45:21 Speaker 3: which is misrepresented when Nancy Mays talked about a big

1:45:24 Speaker 3: time But we're happy for happy and I was stoked

1:45:28 Speaker 3: to have Michael Schellenberger, who at that time I was like,

1:45:32 Speaker 3: this is great, He's going to be a good ally

1:45:37 Speaker 3: moving forward, and he's the right man for the job. Yeah,

1:45:40 Speaker 3: bottom line, no matter the Shananigan's involved, and how revealing

1:45:45 Speaker 3: that second hearing was about the control mechanisms in place

1:45:48 Speaker 3: about UAP, I was elated, and I think so were you.

1:45:52 Speaker 3: That without having to put your face out to the

1:45:54 Speaker 3: public and endure all that like you're doing and get

1:45:57 Speaker 3: experience now your testimony got on the Congressional record, that

1:46:01 Speaker 3: was a big win.

1:46:01 Speaker 5: Yeah, there was a bit of a personal pleasure too.

1:46:06 Speaker 5: I at the very least got to see someone else

1:46:10 Speaker 5: be scared. Who wants who was scared? Not the bosses

1:46:16 Speaker 5: of the people who interfere in Congress, but the minions

1:46:19 Speaker 5: themselves because their bosses didn't tell them what was going

1:46:21 Speaker 5: to happen.

1:46:23 Speaker 3: Can you dive a little deeper into that?

1:46:26 Speaker 5: Well, By all appearances, both behind the scenes and in

1:46:29 Speaker 5: front of them, the submission of this report onto the

1:46:33 Speaker 5: Congressional record and its announcement caught people by surprise. Its

1:46:37 Speaker 5: distribution was allegedly very tight, and these unelected members on

1:46:47 Speaker 5: these congressional staffs that get to set the agenda for

1:46:50 Speaker 5: our elected leaders had to scramble and adjust in real time.

1:46:57 Speaker 5: They panicked.

1:46:58 Speaker 3: See, having something on congressional ras record is different than

1:47:00 Speaker 3: just putting out a news report. News report goes away,

1:47:04 Speaker 3: one click, done. This is much bigger. And I saw

1:47:08 Speaker 3: that too, So it was a big move and it

1:47:11 Speaker 3: was probably was filled with pleasure to see it stirred

1:47:15 Speaker 3: shit up. Kiss you know you said it before, and

1:47:17 Speaker 3: I want to drill this home. At one time, saying

1:47:21 Speaker 3: these words, putting these words in text, saying them over

1:47:24 Speaker 3: the phone, there was repercussion for that at one time.

1:47:28 Speaker 3: I understand it as I understand it as well. But

1:47:31 Speaker 3: so it gets published and I was stoked. I remember

1:47:33 Speaker 3: that day. I went on a news show and I

1:47:34 Speaker 3: was like, I had nothing. I didn't do it. Somebody

1:47:37 Speaker 3: put it out. I mean, you let me know that

1:47:39 Speaker 3: it was going to be public, But I was like,

1:47:41 Speaker 3: I was like stoked to hear those words mentioned, but

1:47:43 Speaker 3: getting it on record, watching the table's turn was filled

1:47:47 Speaker 3: with pleasure.

1:47:47 Speaker 5: Yeah, no long term outcome, but this is a fight

1:47:52 Speaker 5: without many wins, so you take the small personal pleasures.

1:47:55 Speaker 4: As this news travels, is there a blowback. Do you

1:47:59 Speaker 4: suddenly realize something might happen to me as a result

1:48:02 Speaker 4: of this getting out there. You're happy that it's finally

1:48:04 Speaker 4: there on the record, But then does that change over

1:48:07 Speaker 4: the days or weeks afterward?

1:48:09 Speaker 5: Not so much. Definitely, under no illusions. At this point

1:48:14 Speaker 5: nothing would functionally change. But what mattered was, you know,

1:48:20 Speaker 5: adding new fuel to the fire to what looked like

1:48:23 Speaker 5: was a dying cause.

1:48:26 Speaker 4: Is there a blowback for you personally? Does anybody call

1:48:28 Speaker 4: you and say you shouldn't have done that? Or does

1:48:30 Speaker 4: somebody figure out who you are? Is there an attempt

1:48:33 Speaker 4: to identify who you are?

1:48:34 Speaker 5: I'm sure there were attempts, and I'm sure some of

1:48:37 Speaker 5: them were successful. But I mean, I've been known to

1:48:42 Speaker 5: internal security undoubtedly since almost day one.

1:48:46 Speaker 3: You know, here's the deal. People misunderstand because it was

1:48:51 Speaker 3: misrepresented in Congress. This is not a Pentagon paper, a product.

1:48:57 Speaker 6: Yea.

1:48:57 Speaker 3: You are the author of what the world knows as

1:49:00 Speaker 3: the Immaculate Constellation Report. This is a report based upon

1:49:05 Speaker 3: a field report, based upon your investigation what you've discovered,

1:49:09 Speaker 3: trying to do the right thing bringing it to the

1:49:11 Speaker 3: people that need to see it, because it was so

1:49:12 Speaker 3: hard even though they're asking for you to get it

1:49:15 Speaker 3: to them. So just to be really clear for the

1:49:17 Speaker 3: fundamentally for people, immaculate constellation report. What was submitted into

1:49:22 Speaker 3: Congress onto Congressional record, which we fought together to get

1:49:25 Speaker 3: that done, is your words. It's not some government Pentagon

1:49:31 Speaker 3: report like it was misrepresented by Nancy Mason Congress. Not all.

1:49:35 Speaker 5: All my words, one hundred percent authored by me.

1:49:40 Speaker 3: One of the striking things for me in kind of

1:49:43 Speaker 3: talking with you through this process was just reading the

1:49:45 Speaker 3: final report that went on to Congressional record. I mean

1:49:48 Speaker 3: you list and label cuboid formation of metallic orbs. These

1:49:53 Speaker 3: are UFOs right, so fast mover observed transiting over satellite

1:49:57 Speaker 3: or sorry, sensitive facilities, Intelligence vessels positioned to collect on

1:50:02 Speaker 3: reproduction vehicle equilateral triangle UAP tails unwitting vessel. This one

1:50:10 Speaker 3: struck me large. Disc using clouds as concealment, and why

1:50:16 Speaker 3: that struck me is because George and I have been

1:50:19 Speaker 3: exposed to a lot over the years, and I think

1:50:22 Speaker 3: I know and other people know what you're referencing here.

1:50:25 Speaker 3: It sounds like you watched a video you said on

1:50:28 Speaker 3: US government networks. There exists O P I R. Footage.

1:50:32 Speaker 5: What is it overhead persistent infrared? That might be a

1:50:35 Speaker 5: correction that satellite may not have been an OPR satellite

1:50:38 Speaker 5: after all.

1:50:38 Speaker 3: But this one, and you keep going on a boomerang shaped,

1:50:42 Speaker 3: jellyfish shaped, you know, tic tac shape. You're not just

1:50:46 Speaker 3: making these words up, like you saw visual evidence of these? Yeah,

1:50:50 Speaker 3: and so didn't have George Knapp and I we have

1:50:52 Speaker 3: been exposed to along the years, a lot of visual evidence.

1:50:56 Speaker 3: But this one, the large disc in the clouds. Just

1:50:59 Speaker 3: explain to me seeing something like that.

1:51:02 Speaker 5: Well, number one, it's pretty striking because you're watching it

1:51:05 Speaker 5: from sphinx. It's always cool to watch satellite beads and

1:51:09 Speaker 5: that's just something the general public doesn't get to see.

1:51:13 Speaker 5: And then too, just the size of it. It was

1:51:15 Speaker 5: immediately like, well, what the hell is that? It was in?

1:51:18 Speaker 5: I assume infrared either, Yeah, black hot for that one,

1:51:23 Speaker 5: so the white clouds around it, and yeah, it's almost

1:51:26 Speaker 5: playful in its activities or like it was startled. But

1:51:31 Speaker 5: it's one of those cases where I look at it

1:51:33 Speaker 5: and you know, it looks like applying saucer. But it

1:51:39 Speaker 5: might be one of the things that maybe that was

1:51:41 Speaker 5: actually one of ours in the wrong place at the

1:51:44 Speaker 5: wrong time.

1:51:45 Speaker 3: What do you mean I look to start? What does

1:51:47 Speaker 3: that mean?

1:51:49 Speaker 5: You know, it's just looking at an area over the ocean,

1:51:51 Speaker 5: is what it appears. And this thing just comes tunneling

1:51:54 Speaker 5: along like underneath the cloud cover comes up, and then

1:51:58 Speaker 5: right when it's like almost or frame, it scuits off

1:52:02 Speaker 5: to the side and like tries to get out.

1:52:05 Speaker 4: Of like it comes into us earlier and going oops,

1:52:07 Speaker 4: I'm being somebody spotted.

1:52:09 Speaker 5: Me exactly that it was visibly. That's the feeling it had.

1:52:14 Speaker 3: That that was kind of funting to be. I checked.

1:52:16 Speaker 3: We checked when we were with some friends recently. I

1:52:19 Speaker 3: never know. We are not qualified to know if some

1:52:22 Speaker 3: of the things we've been exposed to are legitimate or not.

1:52:25 Speaker 3: But when I get confirmations like you describing this and

1:52:28 Speaker 3: other people we've just recently talked to, I know that

1:52:30 Speaker 3: footage exists, We've been exposed to it, and I think

1:52:34 Speaker 3: that that's a nice piece to the puzzle for the public.

1:52:39 Speaker 5: What about jellyfish hmmm, yeah, so, I mean I only

1:52:42 Speaker 5: heard that term once it was released. It's similar stuff

1:52:47 Speaker 5: I had seen on the inside, and it was often

1:52:49 Speaker 5: labeled like a floating brain or an organic or irregular shape,

1:52:54 Speaker 5: so that's why it's in there. So yeah, I've seen

1:52:58 Speaker 5: multiples of instance is of irregular shape things that look

1:53:04 Speaker 5: thematically similar to the jellyfish. I've never seen the jellyfish

1:53:08 Speaker 5: video itself, but seeing those, you know, there's an instance

1:53:14 Speaker 5: of their one in southcomb right at our border, crossing

1:53:18 Speaker 5: what appears to be into the United States airspace. Let

1:53:23 Speaker 5: me get club detected from Mexico, I believe from one

1:53:27 Speaker 5: way or another. I can't recall the compass orientation right now,

1:53:30 Speaker 5: but I would assume into the US, which is why

1:53:32 Speaker 5: it was interesting.

1:53:33 Speaker 3: Yeah, let me get clear on a couple of days. Well,

1:53:35 Speaker 3: first of all, you know, people like yourself, you get

1:53:38 Speaker 3: it's happened with lazarre, happened with like every word you say.

1:53:41 Speaker 3: You know you're worried about if your memory is a

1:53:44 Speaker 3: perfect this way, you've done a great job of really curating,

1:53:46 Speaker 3: making sure what you said is accurate. It's okay to

1:53:48 Speaker 3: make a mistake. It's okay to like not remember the

1:53:51 Speaker 3: exact equipment that did this or that in your brain.

1:53:53 Speaker 3: Just so so you're saying the word jellyfish you first

1:53:57 Speaker 3: heard kind of when George and I released that thing.

1:53:59 Speaker 3: Into the public needed jellyfish, although it was described differently

1:54:02 Speaker 3: for different assets you've seen on servers.

1:54:04 Speaker 5: That yeah, yeah, yeah, that term was describing something I

1:54:10 Speaker 5: had seen before.

1:54:12 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, but we just called the jellyfish because that's

1:54:14 Speaker 3: what it was told to us. They had two Spaghetti

1:54:17 Speaker 3: Monster was our other auction. It was said to jellyfish works.

1:54:21 Speaker 3: But that morphology or shape is something that consistently you

1:54:25 Speaker 3: had seen within these classified servers.

1:54:28 Speaker 5: Yes, in other contexts outside of the Middle East, Okay, you.

1:54:31 Speaker 4: Never see any any videos where we're engaging with them.

1:54:34 Speaker 4: Either we're chasing them our warplanes or something are going

1:54:37 Speaker 4: after a disc, a saucer, an orb or something like that.

1:54:42 Speaker 5: So I've seen videos and red reports of engagements, but

1:54:48 Speaker 5: not live like we're not shooting them, but engagements where

1:54:53 Speaker 5: you know, either we are trying to intercept something. Read

1:54:57 Speaker 5: lots of reports on that and from other countries as well,

1:55:00 Speaker 5: trying to intercept these things. You know, each report will

1:55:04 Speaker 5: have its own shape that they're chasing, but guess what

1:55:07 Speaker 5: they are. But then, yeah, when there's an example in

1:55:13 Speaker 5: there up the East Coast, what would be classed as

1:55:16 Speaker 5: an engagement where we're up there protecting our airspace and

1:55:20 Speaker 5: encountering these things and interacting with them in a way

1:55:24 Speaker 5: that we would consider hostile. And if it was, if

1:55:27 Speaker 5: it was anything else, you know, if we had a

1:55:30 Speaker 5: Russian bomber patrol that had a fighter escort and they

1:55:33 Speaker 5: tried to box our fighters out force them down from

1:55:36 Speaker 5: the wash, the jetwash, you know, that would be a

1:55:39 Speaker 5: hostile engagement. But for whatever reason, you know, we're not

1:55:44 Speaker 5: describing it that way internally.

1:55:46 Speaker 4: So we're sending a plane up to take a look, yeah,

1:55:49 Speaker 4: maybe get a better look or even some imagery, but

1:55:52 Speaker 4: not to engage, meaning shoot it down, shoot a sidewinder.

1:55:55 Speaker 5: At it or something, right, I would you know, I'm

1:55:57 Speaker 5: not gonna be able to say that's never happened, but

1:56:00 Speaker 5: I have not seen them engaged, yeah, with weapons.

1:56:06 Speaker 3: Well, it recently happened and we became aware of one

1:56:10 Speaker 3: more details on that I think we'll report on. And

1:56:13 Speaker 3: what happened was the missile quote bounced off and so

1:56:19 Speaker 3: they're trying to figure that out. But you know, what

1:56:21 Speaker 3: does that imply like a field around it? I don't know.

1:56:23 Speaker 3: We also released one that was so embarrassing to release.

1:56:26 Speaker 3: We had to call it look like Kermit the frog.

1:56:28 Speaker 3: I think we called it Syria dome up. But the

1:56:30 Speaker 3: reason we released it because verified we tried to engage it,

1:56:33 Speaker 3: We tried to shoot it, and I believe we hit it,

1:56:36 Speaker 3: but we don't know the aftermath or what happened to

1:56:39 Speaker 3: that we reported on. That is actual information, even though

1:56:41 Speaker 3: it looks so silly, we had to report it because

1:56:43 Speaker 3: it's uap. So from the recent event to that, it

1:56:46 Speaker 3: brings me back to what you said, George about the

1:56:49 Speaker 3: official orders back in Russia back in the day. Tell

1:56:52 Speaker 3: me that real quick again.

1:56:53 Speaker 4: So the Russian military that from seventy eight to eighty eight,

1:56:56 Speaker 4: they had a standing order for the any reunit in

1:57:00 Speaker 4: this vast Soviet military empire, any UFO or ball of

1:57:05 Speaker 4: light flying saucer or anything weird in the sky, it

1:57:08 Speaker 4: had to all be investigated. And the guy who was

1:57:11 Speaker 4: in charge of that program at the Ministry of Defense

1:57:14 Speaker 4: said that there had been several dozen instances where they

1:57:17 Speaker 4: sent planes warplanes to intercept these UFOs and they mostly

1:57:22 Speaker 4: they couldn't keep up with them. They just poofed, they're gone.

1:57:24 Speaker 4: But in three cases they tried to engage and shoot

1:57:27 Speaker 4: them down. Three cases where those planes, though Russian warplanes crashed,

1:57:32 Speaker 4: two of the pilots died, and after the second pilot died,

1:57:36 Speaker 4: they issued in order leave them alone because, in the

1:57:38 Speaker 4: words of the commander of the Russian Air Force, they

1:57:41 Speaker 4: said they have incredible capacities for retaliation.

1:57:45 Speaker 3: So why so many shapes? Why do you think so

1:57:48 Speaker 3: many shapes? I used to think FLA saucers were discs.

1:57:51 Speaker 3: I used to think UFOs were for flight saucers, and

1:57:53 Speaker 3: that's what I used to think. Now, after knowing this

1:57:55 Speaker 3: guy for so long, reading all reports, getting whistlers, talking

1:57:57 Speaker 3: with him, why sony shoots?

1:58:00 Speaker 5: I think part of its Sometimes these might be made

1:58:04 Speaker 5: to purpose, so you know, if they're only making it

1:58:10 Speaker 5: for a specific use case scenario, they'll design it to

1:58:15 Speaker 5: excel in that mission.

1:58:16 Speaker 3: I guess not know that. Absolutely have bombers that look

1:58:19 Speaker 3: a certain way, and then we have the reconnaissance vehicles

1:58:22 Speaker 3: that look another way.

1:58:22 Speaker 4: I have Star Wars, they have giant cruisers, and they

1:58:25 Speaker 4: had to have the ex fighters for different jobs. Would

1:58:28 Speaker 4: you be surprised to hear about cases where these things

1:58:31 Speaker 4: large objects come out of the ocean or go back

1:58:34 Speaker 4: into the ocean. Does that sound familiar?

1:58:37 Speaker 5: I would not be surprised I have not seen very

1:58:41 Speaker 5: large objects go in and out of the water, but

1:58:43 Speaker 5: I've definitely seen small to medium sized UAPs either going

1:58:47 Speaker 5: into the water and disappearing, or going in and out

1:58:50 Speaker 5: or coming out of the water. Fact fact and on

1:58:53 Speaker 5: video and described.

1:58:56 Speaker 3: Is a video and described any kind of change of

1:58:59 Speaker 3: a nerve shit SORR multiple videos, any kind of we

1:59:03 Speaker 3: have also been exposed to some Let me ask you this,

1:59:06 Speaker 3: any change of like any inertial effect, any change of

1:59:09 Speaker 3: speed or motion.

1:59:10 Speaker 5: That's like the water wasn't there.

1:59:11 Speaker 3: It's like the gold for anybody wants to see. I

1:59:13 Speaker 3: wonder if it's ever enough, like is video ever enough?

1:59:17 Speaker 5: Like?

1:59:17 Speaker 3: What is enough for people to wrap their heads that

1:59:19 Speaker 3: there's a real issue here. I don't know. I don't

1:59:21 Speaker 3: think one video is ever going to change. I want

1:59:23 Speaker 3: to talk to you about signals intelligence signet right, that

1:59:26 Speaker 3: was a big part of your investigation. Can you explain

1:59:28 Speaker 3: that and why?

1:59:30 Speaker 5: Yeah, so it was one of the sources where uh,

1:59:34 Speaker 5: you know, we have a fantastic intelligent posture. It's not

1:59:40 Speaker 5: as data heavy, so there's just it's just much easier

1:59:43 Speaker 5: to move around and access and read through quickly. Now

1:59:48 Speaker 5: it's one of the shortest sections in there because in

1:59:53 Speaker 5: my mind, you know, those are these are incidental collections, right, Yeah,

1:59:59 Speaker 5: I'm sure we are specifically collecting signals intelligence on this,

2:00:04 Speaker 5: but my research was not in those sort of data streams.

2:00:11 Speaker 3: That majority is accidental kind of capturing.

2:00:16 Speaker 5: Of exactly from other countries, other militaries, activities related to this,

2:00:21 Speaker 5: and their observations related to this, or sometimes historic things

2:00:25 Speaker 5: that we acquire that happen to pop up in those

2:00:28 Speaker 5: in the Singan channels. Yeah. So the reason there's less

2:00:33 Speaker 5: detail there though, is we're using those every day. We

2:00:36 Speaker 5: rely on them a lot, and they're very fragile, very sensitive,

2:00:40 Speaker 5: and diplomatically sensitive as well.

2:00:42 Speaker 4: The things you're describing that you'd seen that are in

2:00:45 Speaker 4: these reports are mostly things that are there's the Pacific

2:00:48 Speaker 4: and the Atlantic, there's over Africa, there are foreign things

2:00:51 Speaker 4: of something coming over the border from Mexico. Where about

2:00:54 Speaker 4: cases in the US? Is is Norad? Is that just

2:00:58 Speaker 4: a black hole for these kind of it's so something

2:01:01 Speaker 4: that happens over our country you don't even get to

2:01:03 Speaker 4: see it.

2:01:03 Speaker 5: Yeah, Northcom is a black hole you need. I mean

2:01:06 Speaker 5: just legislatively, there's there's legal things keeping us the military

2:01:11 Speaker 5: and the IC supposedly from looking at the states. That'

2:01:14 Speaker 5: supposed to be a domestic law enforcement mission. In general,

2:01:17 Speaker 5: you got to have a very good reason to be

2:01:20 Speaker 5: looking at, you know, over your neighbor's fence. Basically, this

2:01:23 Speaker 5: is a I think it's you know, it's functionally a

2:01:26 Speaker 5: barrier to prevent prevent accidental or just curious people, you know,

2:01:34 Speaker 5: doing things they shouldn't in our home, in our homeland,

2:01:38 Speaker 5: which would actually get them in trouble. It's one thing

2:01:40 Speaker 5: if we're doing it a no some foreign country. Is

2:01:44 Speaker 5: one thing if we're crossing the line and spying here

2:01:48 Speaker 5: without a specific mission.

2:01:51 Speaker 4: The complaint we hear from UFO world is I don't

2:01:54 Speaker 4: care about these blurry images. These things are blurry. The

2:01:57 Speaker 4: tik tac to me, that was a fantastic image.

2:01:59 Speaker 3: You know.

2:01:59 Speaker 5: There.

2:02:00 Speaker 4: You're not sending a Dave Fravor up with an Imax

2:02:03 Speaker 4: camera to make a movie. These are captured on sensor

2:02:06 Speaker 4: systems the same as like twenty nineteen the uss Omaha

2:02:10 Speaker 4: Pitch Black one hundred miles off the coast of southern California.

2:02:14 Speaker 4: They're picking up an image that they follow for an

2:02:16 Speaker 4: hour on a thermal camera. They're blurry, but they're amazing images.

2:02:21 Speaker 4: I mean, is there a reason that the public doesn't

2:02:24 Speaker 4: see crystal clear movie quality images of UFOs?

2:02:30 Speaker 5: Yeah. I think unfortunately it's a product of our education system,

2:02:35 Speaker 5: a lack of curiosity in general about the world. There's

2:02:40 Speaker 5: a lot of arrogance in our academy, and that arrogance

2:02:43 Speaker 5: filters down to our citizens. We know the world, we

2:02:45 Speaker 5: haven't figured out there's something really left to discover here,

2:02:49 Speaker 5: And I think in general, there's so much misinformation, stigma,

2:02:54 Speaker 5: mythology that people grow up with that lead them to

2:02:59 Speaker 5: just automatically categorize any of this as just you know, false, fake,

2:03:09 Speaker 5: not real, misidentified.

2:03:12 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, getting an image on a thermal camera

2:03:15 Speaker 4: one hundred miles out to see in total blackness sounds

2:03:18 Speaker 4: pretty cool to me. That sounds like an amazing accomplishment.

2:03:20 Speaker 4: But is there a ore additional reasons that have been

2:03:23 Speaker 4: maybe discussed behind closed doors? Force fields of some sort

2:03:28 Speaker 4: around these craft that make things blurry even from a

2:03:32 Speaker 4: big camera or image, you.

2:03:33 Speaker 5: Know, probably a very real explanation for why certain shapes

2:03:41 Speaker 5: you know, are harder to observe than others. I think,

2:03:45 Speaker 5: you know, whether it's active camouflage and like the skin

2:03:49 Speaker 5: of the vehicle itself that definitely seems to be in

2:03:52 Speaker 5: play or a field like you describe. I've seen evidence

2:03:55 Speaker 5: of fields around crafts.

2:03:58 Speaker 3: Yeah, some things we've seen have looked so bizarre it

2:04:01 Speaker 3: makes no sense to my brain. It is possible, I've

2:04:04 Speaker 3: heard that from a number of whistleblowers at different levels,

2:04:07 Speaker 3: that what you're seeing could just be a part of

2:04:11 Speaker 3: a greater structure, you know, so it could be something

2:04:15 Speaker 3: like that. Speculating.

2:04:17 Speaker 4: We had this Chinese balloon thing that happened three different

2:04:21 Speaker 4: objects UFOs. Three UFOs shut down in a couple of

2:04:25 Speaker 4: week period, and then we saw people use that the

2:04:29 Speaker 4: usual people in the media world who bashed this stuff,

2:04:32 Speaker 4: who tried to blame it on the UAP Task Force.

2:04:35 Speaker 4: The reason we're not nor AD is not looking for

2:04:37 Speaker 4: something like this because the UAP Task Force confused the

2:04:40 Speaker 4: whole situation. It's as if nor AD would only look

2:04:45 Speaker 4: for things that look like planes, bombers or missiles, so

2:04:49 Speaker 4: we didn't look for UFOs. Is it possible that we

2:04:52 Speaker 4: didn't look for UFOs because it didn't really want to

2:04:54 Speaker 4: find them, or is it we were looking for UFOs.

2:04:57 Speaker 4: It just the public and most of the never saw.

2:05:03 Speaker 5: We've always been seeing these things with things like radar,

2:05:06 Speaker 5: so it's yeah, it's part of standard operating procedures to

2:05:11 Speaker 5: deny this and to not acknowledge it.

2:05:16 Speaker 4: So we've been seeing it. We're just pretending not to

2:05:18 Speaker 4: see it.

2:05:19 Speaker 5: Absolutely our public institutions like the FAA or similar in

2:05:24 Speaker 5: their even local context, it's not allowed to be discussed.

2:05:30 Speaker 5: And there might even be technical measures in the technology

2:05:33 Speaker 5: of this place that just prevents it from you even

2:05:35 Speaker 5: popping up on a screen.

2:05:36 Speaker 3: Right like tic TAC.

2:05:38 Speaker 4: So that happened for two or three weeks. They could

2:05:41 Speaker 4: get a little glimpse of it on these systems, really

2:05:44 Speaker 4: sensitive advanced navy systems at the time, and then poof

2:05:48 Speaker 4: it fell off. At the uss Omaha, they had twelve

2:05:51 Speaker 4: or fourteen of these things zipping in. You'd see them

2:05:54 Speaker 4: on the radar screen and then poof. If they didn't

2:05:56 Speaker 4: want to be seen, we weren't seeing them. I guess

2:05:58 Speaker 4: it could be that as part of an explanation. If

2:06:01 Speaker 4: they don't want to be detected on radar, they have

2:06:03 Speaker 4: ways to avoid radar. Whoever they are.

2:06:06 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a dangerous dynamic to have willful ignorance on

2:06:11 Speaker 5: our side and their capability to at least attempt to

2:06:17 Speaker 5: divate detection at any time on theirs. If we are

2:06:21 Speaker 5: so certain they are friendly, why is this a secret?

2:06:26 Speaker 4: I have one more, Yeah, drones. So sixty minutes just

2:06:29 Speaker 4: did a big piece on drones. Langley Air Force Base

2:06:32 Speaker 4: had these things flying over it for seventeen nights in

2:06:34 Speaker 4: a row, stayed in New Jersey for weeks at a time,

2:06:38 Speaker 4: Sensitive bases, restricted airspace at us UK bases in Britain

2:06:44 Speaker 4: for days and days. We can't track these things coming in,

2:06:48 Speaker 4: we can't track them when they leave. We can't shoot

2:06:50 Speaker 4: them down. We don't know where they're from. But don't worry.

2:06:53 Speaker 4: They're just drones. They're foreign surveillance drones. Give me your

2:06:56 Speaker 4: take on that whole situation.

2:06:59 Speaker 5: Well, if you're a member of the public and you

2:07:01 Speaker 5: are still listening to CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, we're reading

2:07:07 Speaker 5: New York Times or the Wall Street Journal, all of

2:07:09 Speaker 5: that is controlled. It's propaganda. It is shaping your life

2:07:15 Speaker 5: narrative intentionally. So as for the government reactions to that,

2:07:24 Speaker 5: I was very disappointed to see continuation of the dismissal

2:07:28 Speaker 5: of these events by the Trump administration's press secretary. I

2:07:34 Speaker 5: can guess why they decided despite the campaign promise to

2:07:37 Speaker 5: immediately address that issue, to not has to do with

2:07:43 Speaker 5: geopolitical situations we are currently involved in, and the fact

2:07:46 Speaker 5: that we are living through a constitutional crisis related to

2:07:51 Speaker 5: this issue.

2:07:51 Speaker 4: Just seems to me that it is a worse thing

2:07:54 Speaker 4: to say these might be foreign surveillance jones and there's

2:07:57 Speaker 4: not a damn thing we can do about it. Can't

2:08:00 Speaker 4: track them, we can't see them, we can't shoot them down.

2:08:03 Speaker 4: Then it is to say these are genuine unknowns. You know,

2:08:06 Speaker 4: it seems like they're ONKNNS, not just something some drone

2:08:09 Speaker 4: that the Chinese are floating off off of New Jersey.

2:08:13 Speaker 5: Well, there's an infection in our security thinking, which is

2:08:18 Speaker 5: that you know, we must they're prime asists, they must

2:08:23 Speaker 5: be on top. To admit weakness is to admit defeat,

2:08:27 Speaker 5: and to say you don't know what something is a

2:08:29 Speaker 5: pretty big signal of weakness. There's not much humility and

2:08:37 Speaker 5: a lot of arrogance driving I think these responses more

2:08:40 Speaker 5: so than any strategy.

2:08:44 Speaker 3: You know, got just I want to defend footage real

2:08:47 Speaker 3: quickly too. I get three things. I want to defend footage.

2:08:50 Speaker 3: There's a lack of education about what people are seeing

2:08:52 Speaker 3: in thermal So, first of all, these are weapons systems.

2:08:55 Speaker 3: These aren't Imax cameras, but they're kind of better than

2:08:58 Speaker 3: an Imax camera because you can see in the fucking dark.

2:09:01 Speaker 3: So I think there's an education process, and we've been

2:09:03 Speaker 3: trying with our reporting to teach people when you see

2:09:05 Speaker 3: something in thermal what you're seeing is the heat signature,

2:09:09 Speaker 3: and that heat signature represents that shape and of the heat.

2:09:14 Speaker 3: It's just a I think it's an education process. It

2:09:16 Speaker 3: has to come from curiosity, but people need to be

2:09:19 Speaker 3: told what they're seeing. It's new to a lot of people.

2:09:21 Speaker 3: It was new to me when I started seeing military

2:09:24 Speaker 3: videos for the first time. So in defense of grainy,

2:09:27 Speaker 3: bad footage, people just need to understand what they're seeing

2:09:30 Speaker 3: to understand the impact if they're curious enough. Question like

2:09:33 Speaker 3: the Allie, like any country in this world could disclose

2:09:37 Speaker 3: at this point, a major country with technological development could disclose.

2:09:42 Speaker 3: We are not alone in the universe. There are others

2:09:44 Speaker 3: as visitors who have been here a long time. Why

2:09:46 Speaker 3: Why has everybody agreed to not say that to the public.

2:09:50 Speaker 3: Do you have any philosophies?

2:09:51 Speaker 5: Why think in the West this is the reaction, and

2:09:55 Speaker 5: that's an important distinction. I cannot comment so much on

2:09:59 Speaker 5: why Russia or China have have not addressed this in

2:10:04 Speaker 5: a different way than us, But I think in the

2:10:07 Speaker 5: West and the Five Eyes Alliance and its subsidiaries, you know,

2:10:13 Speaker 5: there is a understanding at least that this is not

2:10:20 Speaker 5: talked about at official channels, especially if you're a you know,

2:10:23 Speaker 5: small kid on the block. You don't you don't speak

2:10:29 Speaker 5: out of turn. But it also points to, I think

2:10:35 Speaker 5: the fact that this doesn't ultimately reside in the government anymore.

2:10:39 Speaker 5: This is held in an illegal internationalist regime, some sort

2:10:45 Speaker 5: of international cabal of sorts, mix of corporate, military, political intelligence,

2:10:51 Speaker 5: and criminal interests that have come together and they have

2:10:58 Speaker 5: subverted us and have taken this and have made it

2:11:03 Speaker 5: the source of their wealth and power.

2:11:06 Speaker 3: So I had asked you, maat Doctor edgar Mitchell told

2:11:08 Speaker 3: me in one of the last film before he died,

2:11:10 Speaker 3: he used very similar words.

2:11:12 Speaker 5: Well that doesn't make me feel good.

2:11:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, well he was sure of it. You're a whistleblower,

2:11:18 Speaker 3: not a source to me, and George, you know you're

2:11:20 Speaker 3: a whistleblower. You know, I wanna we do want to

2:11:23 Speaker 3: help are I always hear whistleblowers are scared, and we

2:11:28 Speaker 3: know we know some people with the same people, but

2:11:32 Speaker 3: there's a lot that have come to us that you

2:11:33 Speaker 3: don't know. Are you scared? Are you scared now coming forward?

2:11:37 Speaker 3: Are you scared?

2:11:39 Speaker 5: I mean it comes in waves, Okay, so yes, but

2:11:45 Speaker 5: I make a conscious effort every day to know that

2:11:48 Speaker 5: fear rule my life and my deeds. So yes, I'm scared.

2:11:53 Speaker 5: But this is the right thing, It's the necessary thing,

2:11:57 Speaker 5: and I was raised right.

2:12:01 Speaker 4: You think that by talking to us, it's possible that

2:12:03 Speaker 4: you might have some protection in that if somebody cuts

2:12:07 Speaker 4: your brake lines and you go off a cliff, at

2:12:09 Speaker 4: least there's going to be somebody looking into it and

2:12:12 Speaker 4: raise some hell.

2:12:12 Speaker 5: About it, you know, if that happens, don't try too hard.

2:12:16 Speaker 5: Focus on the mission.

2:12:17 Speaker 3: So this is more about people need to know than

2:12:19 Speaker 3: about your personal well being.

2:12:23 Speaker 4: Any regrets.

2:12:24 Speaker 5: Now, I trusted too much, and I did not trust

2:12:29 Speaker 5: myself enough. Took some I paid some prices, and I

2:12:38 Speaker 5: do not doubt that there are the seeds for future

2:12:42 Speaker 5: costs I'll have to pay in the future.

2:12:44 Speaker 4: Describe for us the personal costs, the reality for you

2:12:49 Speaker 4: going forward, your outlook forever working for the government again,

2:12:53 Speaker 4: for example, or with any kind of a job that

2:12:56 Speaker 4: requires a security clearance, personal cost to your marriage, your personal.

2:13:03 Speaker 5: Life well with the job with government. My career is dead,

2:13:07 Speaker 5: and it has been dead for years now. I have

2:13:11 Speaker 5: a file on me I will even if I went back,

2:13:15 Speaker 5: and even if I chose to never do any of

2:13:18 Speaker 5: this and just keep working, I predict that I would

2:13:21 Speaker 5: have found my career stunted mysteriously as soon as it

2:13:27 Speaker 5: would have sought to or would have sought to advance

2:13:30 Speaker 5: into what I thought was a noble mission. Personally, it's

2:13:41 Speaker 5: hard to describe. You know that I've been doing this

2:13:46 Speaker 5: for about four years now. Only very recently have I

2:13:49 Speaker 5: had anyone to talk to about it outside of like,

2:13:56 Speaker 5: you know, hey, can you make this meeting happen. I've

2:13:59 Speaker 5: had no out that has changed. It's been a very painful,

2:14:06 Speaker 5: costly process to find allies, but I have them. There's

2:14:10 Speaker 5: more of us. This doesn't stop, right.

2:14:14 Speaker 4: You've got to know some of these other whistleblowers who

2:14:17 Speaker 4: are still not public yet correct, so, who are at

2:14:20 Speaker 4: least close to coming forward?

2:14:23 Speaker 5: Yes?

2:14:24 Speaker 4: Is there strength in numbers that in that regard? Yes?

2:14:28 Speaker 5: And if all of us die are imprisoned. The seeds

2:14:30 Speaker 5: have been planted. More will come.

2:14:33 Speaker 4: Well, those seeds have been planted about deaths in the

2:14:36 Speaker 4: whistleblower community. That those stories circulate, I would imagine pretty

2:14:40 Speaker 4: quickly among you and.

2:14:41 Speaker 5: People you know. Yeah, but I'm still here.

2:14:44 Speaker 4: You think anybody has been killed because they knew too

2:14:47 Speaker 4: much on yes topic.

2:14:48 Speaker 5: Yes, I believe, and I think, and I could probably

2:14:52 Speaker 5: help someone else prove it. But lethal action has been taken.

2:15:00 Speaker 5: I guess people that tried to get the truth out,

2:15:02 Speaker 5: or maybe we're just considered a wild cards. I'm not

2:15:09 Speaker 5: able to be efficiently controlled, no longer useful. I think

2:15:14 Speaker 5: once you taste the darkness, like using it.

2:15:20 Speaker 4: They don't have to kill you. They get disreading in

2:15:23 Speaker 4: some way. Oh yeah, manufacture something.

2:15:26 Speaker 3: They asked you to come forward, and you even felt

2:15:29 Speaker 3: that you had a small piece to the puzzle and

2:15:31 Speaker 3: you weren't even sure if it was worth it. And

2:15:33 Speaker 3: then you do that, and what you suffer as the

2:15:36 Speaker 3: consequence is against your career. There's other things we're not

2:15:39 Speaker 3: saying that we suspect are related to you coming forward. God,

2:15:44 Speaker 3: that's got to hurt man, that's got to be painful.

2:15:46 Speaker 3: They've asked you to come forward, and you tried all

2:15:49 Speaker 3: the ways to do that. We had to go to

2:15:50 Speaker 3: a little bit extreme measures to get the rest going.

2:15:53 Speaker 3: It's got to be.

2:15:54 Speaker 5: Painful, Yeah, it is. I don't think it'll stop being

2:15:59 Speaker 5: although hopefully time is its own self. I'd like to

2:16:02 Speaker 5: spend that time with my wife, my family in a

2:16:05 Speaker 5: cell or in the ground. But you know, this is

2:16:09 Speaker 5: bigger than me. It's bigger than us. This is the

2:16:14 Speaker 5: fate of our people, and to me, I'm willing to

2:16:20 Speaker 5: pay that price.

2:16:21 Speaker 3: Is it ironic? You have to put your face out

2:16:23 Speaker 3: with us to protect yourself at this point, that's what

2:16:27 Speaker 3: we're doing, right, Yeah, that's what we're doing.

2:16:29 Speaker 5: This is absolutely what I did not want to do.

2:16:34 Speaker 3: I know I can attest to that. This is not

2:16:36 Speaker 3: This is exactly what you did not want to do.

2:16:38 Speaker 5: Correct?

2:16:39 Speaker 4: Have you gamed it out in your head? What happens next?

2:16:42 Speaker 4: What will likely be assuming we go forward with this

2:16:45 Speaker 4: interview and making public and that right now we don't

2:16:47 Speaker 4: know that that's the case. But when it comes out,

2:16:50 Speaker 4: if it comes out, what happens to you, then what

2:16:53 Speaker 4: are the risks?

2:16:55 Speaker 5: Well? Gaming it out? There's more than me, more will come.

2:17:06 Speaker 5: I could say more if I wanted to. Hopefully this

2:17:11 Speaker 5: rises to a level of public attention that demands it

2:17:15 Speaker 5: be addressed in a serious way. I can't cause that alone.

2:17:19 Speaker 5: Other people will, but more need to come. And I

2:17:25 Speaker 5: think at this point I like to say directly to

2:17:28 Speaker 5: the members of our military and our intelligence community, the

2:17:32 Speaker 5: time is now where you must choose whether you honor

2:17:36 Speaker 5: your oath or your orders. And if you have courage,

2:17:40 Speaker 5: you already know the answer. But for the rest of you,

2:17:45 Speaker 5: lead follower, get out of the way. Get out of

2:17:47 Speaker 5: the way.

2:17:50 Speaker 3: We know people are coming forward, and we know we've

2:17:53 Speaker 3: recorded George and I with other people who will be

2:17:56 Speaker 3: coming forward, you know, so you're not alone. But you

2:18:03 Speaker 3: say you could say more, just explain.

2:18:06 Speaker 5: That when I wrote this document of kind of given

2:18:15 Speaker 5: my state of mind and the measures I took to

2:18:17 Speaker 5: protected I'm also, you know, familiar with ways that information

2:18:24 Speaker 5: can be extracted, that passwords and encryption don't matter. So

2:18:29 Speaker 5: I didn't write everything down.

2:18:33 Speaker 4: So there are other bullets left to fire if you

2:18:36 Speaker 4: needed to.

2:18:36 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, talk about things getting lost in the shelf. Well,

2:18:40 Speaker 5: I highly doubt many members of the public read eleven pages,

2:18:45 Speaker 5: much less the first, but at the end there's an

2:18:50 Speaker 5: interesting area. People might notice that it's out of order too.

2:18:55 Speaker 5: Things are sequentially out of order. There's missing sections, and

2:19:01 Speaker 5: that one of that last sections says sensitive sources from

2:19:04 Speaker 5: mouth to ear.

2:19:08 Speaker 3: We talked, We talked about keeping that in or what

2:19:11 Speaker 3: to how far to go with?

2:19:13 Speaker 5: What does that mean? Well, exactly what it says? Those

2:19:18 Speaker 5: words were only spoken from my mouth to another's ear.

2:19:28 Speaker 3: What is it like to have absolute knowledge that not

2:19:34 Speaker 3: only the UFOs are real, that we've been hiding, that

2:19:39 Speaker 3: that our government has controlled that information away from human

2:19:44 Speaker 3: the base human population, and that there is another intelligence

2:19:52 Speaker 3: that is engaged in humanity straight up? What does that

2:19:55 Speaker 3: feel like being one of the people that knows that

2:19:58 Speaker 3: and doesn't suspect that.

2:20:03 Speaker 5: It's weird going to the supermarket. Even more, it's bizarre

2:20:11 Speaker 5: to work in government and see legions of people who

2:20:15 Speaker 5: have no clue about about any of this, and no

2:20:21 Speaker 5: clue that they are being deceived.

2:20:23 Speaker 3: Why should people believe you? I mean, I know, I

2:20:25 Speaker 3: know you, I know what we've been through, but that's

2:20:27 Speaker 3: not public stuff to everybody. Every step we've taken. Why

2:20:30 Speaker 3: should people believe what you're saying?

2:20:34 Speaker 5: I was there I saw it. I spent years researching it.

2:20:42 Speaker 5: If all that I'm consulting is passage material, then we

2:20:46 Speaker 5: are engaged in a massive deception against our own military

2:20:51 Speaker 5: and intelligence community that I was a victim of and honest,

2:20:57 Speaker 5: and it would have been on a scale that probably

2:21:00 Speaker 5: would have been its own news story.

2:21:02 Speaker 3: Absolutely nonsensical madness. Yeah, so as a human being, why

2:21:07 Speaker 3: should people believe you?

2:21:09 Speaker 5: Well, as a human being, I feel like I'm I'm

2:21:13 Speaker 5: genuine putting myself out there, sacrificing my future, my past,

2:21:21 Speaker 5: and a lot of what I have now to do

2:21:22 Speaker 5: this for no gain.

2:21:25 Speaker 3: Now you get nothing from us. We're just reportant because

2:21:28 Speaker 3: it's an important storm.

2:21:29 Speaker 4: And you're telling it because it's true.

2:21:31 Speaker 5: Absolutely it is. It is true.

2:21:38 Speaker 9: And I can't think of anything more pressing for our

2:21:42 Speaker 9: nation to come to terms with than the fact that

2:21:45 Speaker 9: we have been deceived and our rights taken away to

2:21:48 Speaker 9: protect the privileges of an elite few.

2:21:52 Speaker 5: I am not going to I am not going to

2:21:56 Speaker 5: live my life knowing that I could have helped prevent

2:21:59 Speaker 5: another generation of America and humanity from living in ignorance.

2:22:05 Speaker 3: So let's just separate, you know, for audience and people

2:22:09 Speaker 3: kind of meeting you for the first and then so

2:22:11 Speaker 3: there's certain stuff you were exposed to an official capacity

2:22:14 Speaker 3: that you've come to conclusion on and that you know

2:22:16 Speaker 3: to be correct, know to be true. Then there are

2:22:19 Speaker 3: extrapolations and philosophies and ideas from other types of sourcing

2:22:24 Speaker 3: of information, and we can talk about that kind of

2:22:28 Speaker 3: in a separate realm. And I value your opinion. I

2:22:30 Speaker 3: think people will too, because of your exposure to certain

2:22:32 Speaker 3: things you're saying and not saying. Okay, but if we're

2:22:37 Speaker 3: talking just about our ideas, now you have.

2:22:39 Speaker 4: Thoughts about big picture stuff. Who they are? Is it

2:22:44 Speaker 4: more than one day? Is it us from the future? Ets? Interdimensionals?

2:22:50 Speaker 4: Do you think there's anybody in government who knows? And

2:22:54 Speaker 4: if they do know, is there any reason why they

2:22:57 Speaker 4: should say stay secret? At least some of it shou

2:23:00 Speaker 4: stay secret. The public cannot handle.

2:23:03 Speaker 5: No, The only reason for secrecy is fear and greed,

2:23:08 Speaker 5: and that is the paradigm that we must confront and overcome.

2:23:14 Speaker 5: As for the public and what their reaction might be

2:23:21 Speaker 5: to this information, good bad, indifference, I think we already

2:23:25 Speaker 5: have our answer. It's going to be indifference unless the

2:23:32 Speaker 5: stakes are made clear.

2:23:35 Speaker 3: You're an absolutist. You like, rip the band aid off.

2:23:39 Speaker 5: There's no band aid, there's no wound. This is not

2:23:43 Speaker 5: about protecting healing. This is about power and control. This

2:23:50 Speaker 5: isn't about trying to save what's good. It's about getting

2:23:56 Speaker 5: rid of what's evil.

2:23:58 Speaker 4: Power and control meaning control, link to technology and what

2:24:02 Speaker 4: it would mean.

2:24:02 Speaker 5: Those are just means. It's control in humanity everything.

2:24:07 Speaker 4: Do you suspect that there are reverse engineering programs, that

2:24:10 Speaker 4: there have been crashes, that there are attempts to replicate

2:24:14 Speaker 4: that technology. You got hints of it in the ARV

2:24:17 Speaker 4: or RVA that we're trying to build. What these things

2:24:21 Speaker 4: can do. Do you think we've done it, that we've

2:24:23 Speaker 4: accomplished it? Somebody?

2:24:25 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I think we've absolutely replicated some of

2:24:31 Speaker 5: these capabilities in inferior forms and oftentimes maybe disaggregated from

2:24:36 Speaker 5: what was once a unitary system. But we're only able

2:24:40 Speaker 5: to do a small part what that system does.

2:24:42 Speaker 4: We've seen people say they think that the TIC TAC

2:24:44 Speaker 4: is something we had twenty one years ago, and I'm wondering, well,

2:24:49 Speaker 4: where the hell is it. I mean, if we have

2:24:51 Speaker 4: this technology, we've done some of it to get even

2:24:54 Speaker 4: inferior versions of it. Is that something that's going to

2:24:57 Speaker 4: be incorporated into the US military o arsenal or is

2:25:00 Speaker 4: it something that's outside of it, that's controlled by somebody

2:25:03 Speaker 4: who's not using it for national defense.

2:25:08 Speaker 5: I think the US military might be allowed to use

2:25:12 Speaker 5: some of this technology in the national defense, but I

2:25:16 Speaker 5: don't think they ultimately have control over it.

2:25:20 Speaker 3: You know, this is a kind of arms race. It's

2:25:23 Speaker 3: a technology race. Whoever gains the ability to effectively weaponize this,

2:25:29 Speaker 3: they win. We know that UFOs, due to the proportion systems,

2:25:35 Speaker 3: are a matter of national security and weapons of mass destruction,

2:25:40 Speaker 3: and we know that. We don't think that we met

2:25:43 Speaker 3: with people that deal with that, right. Do you agree

2:25:46 Speaker 3: with that? Do you think that this is we are

2:25:48 Speaker 3: in a race with China and Russia. There's other countries

2:25:51 Speaker 3: competing to weaponize this, And do you think that's a

2:25:55 Speaker 3: problem Because you've dealt with weapons of mass destruction in

2:25:57 Speaker 3: your official career.

2:26:00 Speaker 5: I think deterrence, strategic deterrence has migrated out of sorry,

2:26:09 Speaker 5: has evolved from being relying on nuclear weapons as the pinnacle.

2:26:16 Speaker 5: I believe we have and others have developed the means

2:26:21 Speaker 5: to maybe utilize nuclear reactions to create some very dangerous

2:26:29 Speaker 5: effects through directed energy.

2:26:32 Speaker 3: Your concern is directed energy weapon.

2:26:34 Speaker 5: Right among many. But when it comes to WMDs and

2:26:41 Speaker 5: relations to this technology, I think we have been successful

2:26:45 Speaker 5: in both deriving new science that we have then suppressed

2:26:54 Speaker 5: to prepare preserve a strategic advantage. And I think I

2:27:01 Speaker 5: probably don' want to talk too much more about deterrence.

2:27:07 Speaker 4: Somebody was flying these things that crashed, Somebody built these

2:27:12 Speaker 4: things that are being reverse engineered. Who's that somebody? And

2:27:16 Speaker 4: why don't why don't they come forward? I mean, you know,

2:27:19 Speaker 4: you may not have seen that in a document or

2:27:21 Speaker 4: a file or something somewhere, but you've thought about it.

2:27:23 Speaker 4: You're a smart guy. What are your thoughts on the

2:27:25 Speaker 4: big picture questions? Who are they? Why are they here?

2:27:30 Speaker 4: Why don't they show us what's going on?

2:27:34 Speaker 5: I think I have a good degree of confidence that

2:27:40 Speaker 5: the reason they're here is us. I think life, especially

2:27:47 Speaker 5: sentient life, it's a precious thing, and I think to

2:27:52 Speaker 5: some it might be a resource. I think humanity to

2:27:56 Speaker 5: some level is a resource for them. Look for commodity,

2:28:05 Speaker 5: possibly a commodity, possibly form of entertainment, possibly medical related.

2:28:14 Speaker 5: I think they live here.

2:28:16 Speaker 4: Yes, for all intensive purposes, yes, always.

2:28:19 Speaker 5: I don't know about always, but it certainly appears that

2:28:21 Speaker 5: they have been here for most of recorded history. At

2:28:25 Speaker 5: least some element of this has been here for most

2:28:27 Speaker 5: of human recorded history.

2:28:29 Speaker 4: You think we would see them if they didn't let

2:28:31 Speaker 4: us see them, even with our more advanced sensors. That

2:28:34 Speaker 4: they pop up, but they can also disappear. And do

2:28:38 Speaker 4: they allow us to get these glimpses? Is that a

2:28:41 Speaker 4: game some sort, I wonder or an education proms?

2:28:45 Speaker 5: Is our one that I could not understand if it

2:28:46 Speaker 5: is a game. I think they're both just as powerful

2:28:51 Speaker 5: as we think, but also less, and I think there

2:28:53 Speaker 5: is there is not a single they hear multiple multiple

2:28:59 Speaker 5: certainly multiple factions of the same species, if not multiple species,

2:29:04 Speaker 5: and all the complexity that brings, which might be our

2:29:08 Speaker 5: best hope.

2:29:09 Speaker 3: Do they have an agenda? There's different types? You know,

2:29:12 Speaker 3: what are your philosophies on this? Like who are the others?

2:29:15 Speaker 3: Why are they here? And you've touched upon it. I

2:29:17 Speaker 3: know we're kind of going back a little bit, but

2:29:20 Speaker 3: that is the big question. And I just wanted to

2:29:22 Speaker 3: separate so people understand your exposure and your personal conclusions.

2:29:29 Speaker 5: So I have been exposed to know. Direct information on

2:29:38 Speaker 5: the anatomy, biology, intentions, culture, politics, never came across those files,

2:29:46 Speaker 5: never came across those I think those are all some

2:29:48 Speaker 5: of the deepest secrets they would be. This is correct information.

2:29:55 Speaker 5: What I have learned is that we live in a dream,

2:30:00 Speaker 5: a carefully constructed reality. We make use of a science

2:30:08 Speaker 5: that is tightly controlled and suppressed and distorted. I think

2:30:13 Speaker 5: we are left behind humans. I think normies, the normal humans,

2:30:21 Speaker 5: the people have been left behind us. People need to

2:30:28 Speaker 5: understand that we might have freedom of speech, but that

2:30:34 Speaker 5: has been subverted. We do not have freedom of inquiry.

2:30:40 Speaker 5: We are blocked from learning what we need to know.

2:30:42 Speaker 5: Just in the public world. We are blocked from advancing

2:30:46 Speaker 5: in science. We are taught false science intentionally to prevent

2:30:51 Speaker 5: us from learning more. We live in the matrix. It's

2:30:56 Speaker 5: just much more boring than the movie.

2:31:00 Speaker 4: I think about whistleblowers like yourself, you're about to find out,

2:31:03 Speaker 4: assuming we released this, You're about to find out what

2:31:05 Speaker 4: the price is for coming forward. And there are other

2:31:08 Speaker 4: people in the same kind of position who are wondering

2:31:10 Speaker 4: what they should do, who are basically being held in limbo.

2:31:13 Speaker 4: They've worked in classified programs, their whole life. That's what

2:31:17 Speaker 4: they do, that's what pays their bills, and they're held

2:31:20 Speaker 4: in limbo and that's held over their heads, so they

2:31:22 Speaker 4: don't come forward and they're debating taking the same steps

2:31:27 Speaker 4: as you. There is no hope or help for anything

2:31:30 Speaker 4: like folks like that is there. I mean, we've heard

2:31:32 Speaker 4: promises will help whistleblowers come forward, We'll give them support.

2:31:36 Speaker 4: They're private equity funds and organizations that say they're going

2:31:41 Speaker 4: to help. But we haven't seen shit so far, have we?

2:31:44 Speaker 4: And have you? No.

2:31:45 Speaker 5: I've reached out directly to institutions that claim that they

2:31:50 Speaker 5: are here to help UAP whistleblowers, specifically both in the

2:31:54 Speaker 5: process of coming forward and any sort of stability afterwards.

2:31:59 Speaker 5: It's been radio silence at best. At worst, one of

2:32:05 Speaker 5: those institutions has stolen my information. There is no organized

2:32:13 Speaker 5: help for whistleblowers. It is all controlled. It is all

2:32:16 Speaker 5: at either the special interest of industry that wants to

2:32:20 Speaker 5: get in on this or by the existing.

2:32:23 Speaker 4: Powers that be intelligence agencies who have infiltrated or created

2:32:28 Speaker 4: these things.

2:32:29 Speaker 5: Correct.

2:32:29 Speaker 3: I have directly experienced that sadly over this last year,

2:32:34 Speaker 3: which is the vacuuming up of intelligence on people such

2:32:38 Speaker 3: as yourself who are trying to do the right thing

2:32:40 Speaker 3: as whistleblowers, as well as anything that reporters could possibly

2:32:44 Speaker 3: obtain and release. And it is a treacherous moment in

2:32:48 Speaker 3: our history of this. You did a call to action

2:32:50 Speaker 3: in people. You told them this. You know, it's time,

2:32:53 Speaker 3: you know, move forward. I know that you had some

2:32:56 Speaker 3: encouragement with David Grush. I hope people are encouraged you know,

2:33:00 Speaker 3: also by you. Look, man, if you were to die

2:33:05 Speaker 3: tomorrow because of whatever reason, what do you want people

2:33:09 Speaker 3: to know right now? Like, what do you want people

2:33:12 Speaker 3: to know? If you're just like fucking on, you.

2:33:20 Speaker 5: Are not free And this reality has far more to

2:33:26 Speaker 5: it than you have been allowed to believe. And God

2:33:30 Speaker 5: is real.