KARI LINDSAY- "Dark Alliance"- The Secret Space HOAX- Corey Goode-David Wilcock!

0:00 Speaker 1: Coming up on Total Disclosure podcast.

0:04 Speaker 2: Diapersuckers are the dark forces, so my clients are not

0:08 Speaker 2: the dark forces.

0:09 Speaker 3: No, but I would say to those of you that

0:14 Speaker 3: are supporting him and helping him to defend himself, what's

0:20 Speaker 3: he defending himself from. No one is suing Corey. He's

0:24 Speaker 3: the one suing everybody. Who is the dark force?

0:27 Speaker 4: Who is the cabal?

0:33 Speaker 5: They said things like I couldn't believe he was talking

0:36 Speaker 5: about twenty and back and bases on Mars and the Moon.

0:44 Speaker 6: I think if you look up sensational in the dictionary,

0:47 Speaker 6: you'll probably find David Wilcock's face in there. Cult like

0:50 Speaker 6: behaviors that are going on around that group. Corey literally

0:53 Speaker 6: called himself the Enoch of our modern times, and David

0:57 Speaker 6: claims to have all these insiders.

1:00 Speaker 3: Hundreds of people have been on Guya having different TV shows.

1:03 Speaker 3: Have any of them turned around and sued Gaya? Nobody

1:07 Speaker 3: but Corey Good.

1:09 Speaker 5: The company that created the sky Net. He said he

1:13 Speaker 5: started Cyberdyne years before the Terminator film came out.

1:18 Speaker 6: Let's go back to the beginning. I first met Corey

1:21 Speaker 6: and David. Well, let me back up a little bit

1:23 Speaker 6: from there.

1:32 Speaker 4: I don't make films. I make art. That's that's what

1:37 Speaker 4: I do. I don't that's my artistic process is I

1:40 Speaker 4: don't make corporate product. I'm not thinking about what's going

1:44 Speaker 4: to sell well, I think about what the messages, how

1:48 Speaker 4: I can visually and artistically represent that in a way

1:51 Speaker 4: that's classy and it hits on the right notes. So

1:54 Speaker 4: I watched it and I rewound it, I watched it

1:56 Speaker 4: again and was just mesmerized, like, there's no way, there's

1:59 Speaker 4: no way there's a website that actually has this kind

2:01 Speaker 4: of stuff. Because before this I'd been into like Stephen Greer,

2:04 Speaker 4: I'd put.

2:05 Speaker 1: But yeah, especially from Darcy who made films about like

2:08 Speaker 1: the real side of the secrets right then to come

2:11 Speaker 1: out and be like, but you know, there's this there's

2:14 Speaker 1: this other side as well, this really dark side of

2:18 Speaker 1: the community, and kind of shed a spotlight on it.

2:21 Speaker 4: But well, here's the thing in these dynamics. So so

2:24 Speaker 4: Corey Good, for example, he replaced God in that dynamic.

2:27 Speaker 4: He became he became the lead, the head father figure,

2:31 Speaker 4: the patriarchal figure at the top of the dynamic. And

2:34 Speaker 4: then the way that he was interacting with his followers,

2:36 Speaker 4: so inviting them to conferences, doing movies, having private group

2:40 Speaker 4: chats with them, and making them feel like they're part

2:43 Speaker 4: of the team. That's what was attractive even to me.

2:45 Speaker 4: That's why I added these people on Facebook and tried

2:48 Speaker 4: to get into these networks because it looked like it

2:51 Speaker 4: looked like where the culture was going. What all the.

3:04 Speaker 5: Diap I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide

3:09 Speaker 5: would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from

3:12 Speaker 5: outside this work.

3:13 Speaker 7: And yet I ask you, was not an alien force

3:16 Speaker 7: already among us.

3:17 Speaker 1: We must guard.

3:18 Speaker 7: Again the acquisition of unwanted influence, whether sought or unsolved

3:22 Speaker 7: by the military industrial compact. The potential or the disastrous

3:26 Speaker 7: rise or misplaced power exists and will persist.

3:49 Speaker 4: Now. I am become death drier world.

3:52 Speaker 5: In my association with Project Group, they definitely withheld information.

3:59 Speaker 4: Mm hmite thee on the nam.

4:07 Speaker 7: Hlobys twere or for the testing or about to give

4:10 Speaker 7: me the truth, the whole.

4:11 Speaker 1: Truth and nothing the truth?

4:13 Speaker 5: So help me God, do you believe that our government

4:15 Speaker 5: is in possession?

4:15 Speaker 1: Are the against absolutely.

4:22 Speaker 5: All right?

4:23 Speaker 1: Everybody, welcome back to Total disclosure, UFOs cover ups and conspiracy.

4:29 Speaker 1: My name's Toy and I am your beloved host. Don't

4:32 Speaker 1: mind me. I'm getting over a brief brief sickness. I

4:36 Speaker 1: always not a bit horsey, but it's extra today and

4:40 Speaker 1: I know that's uh sounds crazy, but today I want

4:44 Speaker 1: to start off by dedicating today's show to the twenty

4:50 Speaker 1: one year old man that you know is practically family.

4:54 Speaker 1: We grew up in the same neighborhood and he lost

4:57 Speaker 1: his life at twenty one years old in a orcycle

5:00 Speaker 1: accident over this past week.

5:03 Speaker 6: Uh.

5:03 Speaker 1: So you know, I watched him from a rambunctious toddler

5:06 Speaker 1: grow into a very very well respected man.

5:10 Speaker 6: Uh.

5:11 Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's tragic when we lose someone

5:15 Speaker 1: so young, especially someone so vibrant and useful as Jake Trainey.

5:20 Speaker 1: So you know, I just I dedicated this episode to

5:25 Speaker 1: Jake into the neighborhood Lakeside Forever. All right, guys, Today

5:30 Speaker 1: we're joined by Cary Lindsay, a journalist and filmmaker.

5:34 Speaker 2: Who specializes in exploring the myths and narratives of new

5:40 Speaker 2: age culture. Previously a host of a popular YouTube series,

5:44 Speaker 2: Cary has transitioned into documentary filmmaking, bringing a critical lens

5:49 Speaker 2: to a fascinating and complex set of topics today. Let's

5:56 Speaker 2: welcome miss there Carrie.

5:58 Speaker 4: How we doing, brother, Hi, thank you for having me. Hello.

6:03 Speaker 1: Absolutely.

6:03 Speaker 4: Man.

6:05 Speaker 1: You know, I after I watched Dark Alliance, I you know,

6:10 Speaker 1: I think I think it was in It was even

6:14 Speaker 1: before I got to the second episode, I was I

6:17 Speaker 1: had a notebook and I virtually filled it and I

6:22 Speaker 1: reached out to Darcy and I'm like, Darcy, listen, I

6:24 Speaker 1: want to bring you back back back on the show.

6:27 Speaker 1: And he was like, uh, you know, I'm just gonna

6:30 Speaker 1: I'm kind of like staying back from interviews right now.

6:33 Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, that makes sense. He's like,

6:35 Speaker 1: I'm getting a lot of heat from the community for

6:38 Speaker 1: this documentary. He's like, I just kind of want to

6:40 Speaker 1: chill and uh, let let you know things because he

6:44 Speaker 1: went on a lot of big shows and kind of

6:46 Speaker 1: you know, went full guns of blazing. But you know,

6:50 Speaker 1: then by happenstance, it didn't even it was like a synchronicity.

6:55 Speaker 1: Not even a week later, you contact me while I'm

6:59 Speaker 1: gone tacting you guys, and You're like, hey, I'd love

7:03 Speaker 1: to come on and like talk about the documentary. So man,

7:06 Speaker 1: I'm super excited. This is a topic I've I wanted

7:10 Speaker 1: to dive into because I think there is a lot

7:14 Speaker 1: of I want to believe in the community of UFO

7:18 Speaker 1: is the paranormal, and like we need a balance, and

7:22 Speaker 1: I think.

7:23 Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely that was a great interest, Thank you. So

7:29 Speaker 4: I agree. I think that there should be checks and balances,

7:33 Speaker 4: and to be able to critically examine these topics kind

7:37 Speaker 4: of free of the harassment and abuse that quite often

7:41 Speaker 4: goes along with it in this topic is important and

7:46 Speaker 4: I can understand why why Darcy stepped back at the time,

7:49 Speaker 4: he was getting quite a lot of quite a lot

7:51 Speaker 4: of heat.

7:53 Speaker 1: And as soon as you go against the narrative, especially

7:58 Speaker 1: from someone who is making films about the Secret Space Program,

8:03 Speaker 1: are we allowed to say that without getting like.

8:06 Speaker 4: Well, we made the walk around the New Age Secret

8:09 Speaker 4: Space Program the NASSP. It's our own nomenclature that we

8:13 Speaker 4: used for the documentary, so feel free to use that.

8:16 Speaker 4: I want to sere s SP NASSP, New Age Secret

8:20 Speaker 4: Space Program.

8:21 Speaker 1: All right, So if you guys hear that, then you

8:23 Speaker 1: know what it means now. But yeah, especially from Darcy

8:27 Speaker 1: who made films about like the real side of the secrets,

8:30 Speaker 1: right then, to come out and be like, bah, you

8:34 Speaker 1: know there's this there's this other side as well, this

8:36 Speaker 1: really dark side of the community, and kind of shed

8:40 Speaker 1: a spotlight on it where no one had before. So

8:44 Speaker 1: I want to start by asking you what inspired you

8:47 Speaker 1: to kind of co create Dark Alliance and what specific

8:52 Speaker 1: aspects of the UFO community's mentality did you want to

8:56 Speaker 1: explore through this story.

8:59 Speaker 4: So the genesis of the co creation she stems back

9:03 Speaker 4: all the way to kind of summer of twenty twenty.

9:06 Speaker 4: It was kind of mid COVID, So for the audience

9:10 Speaker 4: listening and watching, my history with the Corey Good story

9:13 Speaker 4: actually stems back to twenty sixteen. So I had found

9:17 Speaker 4: I found Corey Good at the early days on Geya,

9:20 Speaker 4: and I became like an avid follower, and i'd ended

9:25 Speaker 4: up adding them all on Facebook and kind of joining

9:28 Speaker 4: all of their like Private Meat Earth, Cosmic Neighbors groups

9:31 Speaker 4: and Full Disclosure Now and following along in kind of

9:34 Speaker 4: this meta narrative where there's the Guya show and then

9:38 Speaker 4: there's the social aspect kind of below it that was

9:41 Speaker 4: going on. So I was in that for a number

9:45 Speaker 4: of years, and so I think it was twenty nineteen

9:50 Speaker 4: Corey Good did an episode of Edge of Wonder called

9:54 Speaker 4: Civil War and Ethology, where like thirty six minutes in

9:59 Speaker 4: they pop up a graphic of a dark journalist post

10:03 Speaker 4: and then refer to all of his comments as useful idiots,

10:06 Speaker 4: except I was the top comment. So I was like,

10:11 Speaker 4: what's going on right now? What I thought? These guys

10:14 Speaker 4: were my friends? Yeah, So I look at the amount

10:18 Speaker 4: of views it had, and it had had like one

10:20 Speaker 4: hundred and eighty six thousand views in two days. And

10:23 Speaker 4: because I had just been in Vancouver hanging out with

10:26 Speaker 4: hanging out with Graham Hancock, So I was like, what

10:29 Speaker 4: is going on right now? This is this is insane.

10:32 Speaker 4: So I reached out to Edge of Wonder and I'm like, hey, guys,

10:36 Speaker 4: why did you do that? And it took like three

10:39 Speaker 4: weeks or something for Ben Chastine to get back to

10:41 Speaker 4: me and be like, oh, sorry, man, the editor should

10:43 Speaker 4: have taken that out. I'm like, are you gonna take

10:46 Speaker 4: it out? It took it took like two years, but

10:49 Speaker 4: I finally got them to blow it because I was like,

10:52 Speaker 4: don't refer to me in that way, like I didn't,

10:55 Speaker 4: like I hadn't even done anything to warrant that the

10:58 Speaker 4: post was about Edge of wonder and I just made

11:00 Speaker 4: a joke, like not affirming or disaffirming anything that d

11:07 Speaker 4: journalist had said. I just made a joke so.

11:10 Speaker 1: So in that in that in that moment, I mean,

11:15 Speaker 1: the rug kind of like gets old.

11:17 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was my rug pool moment. And after that,

11:20 Speaker 4: I I kind of I contacted Jay Widener. Yep, I

11:26 Speaker 4: think it was about it was about a month after

11:28 Speaker 4: that actually, like so that happened. I apologized to them

11:31 Speaker 4: and was just like, hey, guys, I was trying to

11:33 Speaker 4: internally kind of fix it to the point where Jay

11:38 Speaker 4: Wider released this reality check YouTube series with Yvonne Palomo

11:42 Speaker 4: talking about his experiences and her experiences working with the

11:45 Speaker 4: early years of the Corey Good Thing. And I saw

11:49 Speaker 4: episode three where Yvonne cried about the abuse that Corey

11:53 Speaker 4: and his group had done to her and that that

11:55 Speaker 4: was the real like the final straw where I went,

11:58 Speaker 4: I need to do something like this woman is being

12:02 Speaker 4: abused by people that I could easily contact, Like this

12:07 Speaker 4: is this is weird. So I contacted Jay and said, hey,

12:11 Speaker 4: I'm inside all of these groups, I'm friends with all

12:14 Speaker 4: these people. I can I can kind of feed you

12:18 Speaker 4: information from these groups on how they're responding to you

12:23 Speaker 4: if they're planning to kind of gang up on you.

12:26 Speaker 4: Because at the time that all of these chat messages

12:28 Speaker 4: had leaked from the internal groups where they were going

12:30 Speaker 4: after Richard Dolan and Jerkoozabi from guy dot com and stuff,

12:35 Speaker 4: so it was very there was a lot of stuff

12:38 Speaker 4: floating around and being thrown around. So I offered to Jay, Hey,

12:43 Speaker 4: I can provide screenshots when I if and when I

12:46 Speaker 4: see them kind of thing. So I started doing that,

12:48 Speaker 4: and then I noticed that his thumbnails sucked, so I

12:52 Speaker 4: asked him, Hey, do you want me to do your

12:53 Speaker 4: thumbnails too? So I ended up doing the first like

12:56 Speaker 4: eighteen episodes of Reality Checks thumbnails uh one of them,

13:01 Speaker 4: I think episode five ended up getting cited in Corey

13:04 Speaker 4: Good's Rico lawsuit, which was like really really weird. And

13:09 Speaker 4: at this point I still hadn't come up with the

13:11 Speaker 4: idea for the documentary that came about two months after

13:14 Speaker 4: that citation in the lawsuit. So I I had a

13:19 Speaker 4: late night one night and I watched Mark and j

13:22 Speaker 4: D plus the Plas Brothers. They did the documentary called

13:25 Speaker 4: A Wild, Wild Country about what's his name? Oh show Oho,

13:34 Speaker 4: So I just had clicked in my head, like, wait

13:36 Speaker 4: a minute, there's lawsuits, this is going to be going

13:39 Speaker 4: on for a little while, and there's all of this

13:41 Speaker 4: history that I know, and there's got to be way

13:44 Speaker 4: more there than I even know about. So it just

13:46 Speaker 4: turned into this, oh maybe maybe that could be a thing.

13:48 Speaker 4: And at the time I came like that, the first

13:51 Speaker 4: thing I came up with was the title, which is

13:53 Speaker 4: Dark Alliance the Inside Story of the Cosmic Car about

13:57 Speaker 4: five o'clock in the morning, just like, there you go,

13:59 Speaker 4: that's what it's and that's that's the title. As it

14:03 Speaker 4: stayed for a long time after that.

14:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's stay there for a minute, because it's funny,

14:07 Speaker 1: it's it's it's great. I mean, this is perfect. So

14:11 Speaker 1: the title Dark Alliance is it's I mean, let's not lie.

14:14 Speaker 1: It's evocative, right, can you explain what it signifies in

14:20 Speaker 1: the context of the UFO community, like in the Secrets

14:24 Speaker 1: the SSP narrative.

14:26 Speaker 4: Okay, So for those playing along at home, the Dark

14:30 Speaker 4: Alliance is a terminology created by David and Corey Good

14:35 Speaker 4: David Wilcock and Corey Good to denote their kind of

14:40 Speaker 4: critics and detractors as being a dark Alliance controlled by

14:45 Speaker 4: like the nefarious forces within the the NASSP world to

14:51 Speaker 4: go against the good forces such as the Galactic Federation

14:54 Speaker 4: or the the Anshah or people like that. So it

14:57 Speaker 4: was a a fake group created out of the critics.

15:02 Speaker 2: It was.

15:02 Speaker 4: It was kind of a catchual term for anybody that

15:04 Speaker 4: was critical. Oh you're remember the Dark Alliance. You're working

15:07 Speaker 4: with the c i A. You're being paid by the

15:10 Speaker 4: d i A to ruined Corey and his message. So

15:15 Speaker 4: all of his critics, we took that on the on

15:19 Speaker 4: the chin and they just went, okay, fine, we're the

15:23 Speaker 4: Dark Alliance. So for a long time, my idea of

15:28 Speaker 4: what it was going to be was going to be

15:29 Speaker 4: about the more of the community aspect in how to

15:34 Speaker 4: how we were all working together to critically think about

15:37 Speaker 4: this narrative, and we we were the Dark Alliance. Over time,

15:43 Speaker 4: a few a few members, a few of the critics died. Yeah. Yeah,

15:49 Speaker 4: they just just died as a part of life. It

15:52 Speaker 4: wasn't like anything tragic, right, it was. It was tragic,

15:54 Speaker 4: but it wasn't sudden or was it was. It was

16:00 Speaker 4: just part of life and a lot of us kind

16:02 Speaker 4: of drifted apart. So this idea is kind of floating

16:05 Speaker 4: there in my head. So about a year later, after

16:10 Speaker 4: it kind of fell apart, I started making some some

16:13 Speaker 4: rough cuts, which is really just a chronology where I

16:16 Speaker 4: just went I went online and I found I had

16:20 Speaker 4: had some help from a from a colleague. But I

16:23 Speaker 4: ended up putting together all the public media that's out

16:27 Speaker 4: there on Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, all the videos in chronological

16:31 Speaker 4: order to actually tell this story from the genesis of

16:34 Speaker 4: Corey Good all the way through to the conferences to

16:37 Speaker 4: the lawsuits. So I did right right while while explaining

16:43 Speaker 4: context as well, and oh wow, yeah it was. It

16:48 Speaker 4: was really fun. But like obviously, legally I could never

16:50 Speaker 4: release that. I could never put that out for for

16:54 Speaker 4: money or anything. So I had I had dropped a

16:57 Speaker 4: few clips of this online. I had a train that

17:00 Speaker 4: was played during I think it's during the Golden Probes

17:04 Speaker 4: Awards show or the Golden Probe's pre award show on

17:09 Speaker 4: truth Seekers, and Darcy had seen that trailer and reached

17:12 Speaker 4: out to Stephen, like, Hey, who's this person. They're working

17:15 Speaker 4: on something exactly like what I'm working on. So that's

17:18 Speaker 4: how I ended up meeting Darcy. And yeah, so we

17:21 Speaker 4: ended up having this like eight hour mega conversation throughout

17:25 Speaker 4: the night where we just kind of mind melded on

17:27 Speaker 4: it and realized that, like, it makes so much more

17:30 Speaker 4: sense to work together because he's got like the filmmaking

17:34 Speaker 4: acumen and I've got the research and the story. So

17:37 Speaker 4: it just kind of it was just a natural match.

17:40 Speaker 4: And from there it was it was just off to

17:42 Speaker 4: the races. Like within four months of starting to work together,

17:45 Speaker 4: we were in America, driving across America interviewing people.

17:50 Speaker 1: There's one day about Darcy that man never stops.

17:55 Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever seen. In fact, no, I

17:58 Speaker 4: I was looking at Folk when you asked me for

18:00 Speaker 4: potograph for the Thumb. Now last night I found a

18:02 Speaker 4: photo of Darcy standing still at a taco bell counter

18:05 Speaker 4: and I actually I took note of it as being

18:07 Speaker 4: one of the few times above a cinnem standstill, and

18:10 Speaker 4: I was like, I heard it, crack, he's sitting still. Yeah,

18:14 Speaker 4: he has one of the best work ethic because I

18:17 Speaker 4: honestly like that man never stops. So if anyone listening

18:21 Speaker 4: and watching, go watch his stuff. He deserves it.

18:24 Speaker 1: He works so hard, he definitely deserves it. And you know,

18:29 Speaker 1: he's someone I look up to as a filmmaker myself

18:32 Speaker 1: and you know, working on my own first documentary. Now

18:36 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's I even asked him for uh

18:39 Speaker 1: for for help and and he's you know, obviously super busy,

18:43 Speaker 1: but he he's kind of referred me to like people

18:46 Speaker 1: like yourself and people like.

18:49 Speaker 4: Uh.

18:49 Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to start naming every single name,

18:52 Speaker 1: but there are a few people I am, you know,

18:55 Speaker 1: ready to reach out to, and you know, I really

18:59 Speaker 1: like bring this together. So it's it's ironic that you

19:02 Speaker 1: say that because he's not. He's he's just a very

19:06 Speaker 1: good person. He and he's and he's not you can't

19:09 Speaker 1: buy him off like he's right, he's very His integrity

19:13 Speaker 1: is there. So I really do love that. But all right,

19:17 Speaker 1: back to back to the Dark Alliance stuff and the content,

19:23 Speaker 1: how would you describe the central tent, like the tension

19:27 Speaker 1: within the UFO community between the desire and the truth

19:33 Speaker 1: and the inconsistencies or the willingness to overlook inconsistencies to

19:39 Speaker 1: preserve a compelling narrative.

19:42 Speaker 4: That's a that's an excellent question. You're hitting on the

19:45 Speaker 4: big one there, which is the why why do people

19:48 Speaker 4: believe this stuff? And as someone who spent three and

19:52 Speaker 4: a half years deeply embroiled believing this stuff following along

19:56 Speaker 4: with it. I can tell you it comes about from

19:59 Speaker 4: from mental vulnerable. So for example, when I first found

20:02 Speaker 4: Corey on Guya, I had just been in hospital. I

20:05 Speaker 4: was bedbound. I couldn't get up and walk around. I

20:08 Speaker 4: was I just had a p S three on an

20:10 Speaker 4: old TV and I could. I was like in bed

20:13 Speaker 4: with the controller, not really able to move right. I

20:15 Speaker 4: was just like, oh, do it like that button? And

20:19 Speaker 4: then I ended up. I'd heard about Guya dot com

20:22 Speaker 4: a few months before. Funnily enough, it was. It was

20:27 Speaker 4: really funny. Actually I was on acid when I first

20:29 Speaker 4: saw a trailer for Guys. This was months before I

20:34 Speaker 4: even actually went back and watched any but I I

20:36 Speaker 4: just remember hearing like Corey Good and David Willcarck. It

20:39 Speaker 4: was it was an ad for Cosmic Disclosure, and they're

20:41 Speaker 4: talking about the tall Whites, the Nordic tall white beings.

20:46 Speaker 4: And I remember I was cooking like a chili, like

20:50 Speaker 4: a chili con carne, and I just remember the gravityering

20:54 Speaker 4: across the kitchen and being like, what is this? What

20:57 Speaker 4: is this amazing thing that I'm hearing with my ears right,

21:00 Speaker 4: and so I watched it and I rewound it and

21:03 Speaker 4: watched it again and was just mesmerized, like, there's no way,

21:06 Speaker 4: there's no way there's a website that actually has this

21:09 Speaker 4: kind of stuff. Because before this, I'd been into like

21:11 Speaker 4: Stephen Greer, I'd put money towards the serious documentary and

21:15 Speaker 4: not got anything out of it, which I was already

21:17 Speaker 4: kind of. I was kind of pissed and jaded about

21:19 Speaker 4: the gristuff. Put money towards the serious documentary and not

21:23 Speaker 4: got anything out of it, which I was already kind of.

21:25 Speaker 4: I was kind of pissed and jaded about the Grier stuff.

21:28 Speaker 4: So when I saw, oh my god, there's a whole

21:30 Speaker 4: website with good content. I say that with quotation marks

21:34 Speaker 4: good content, I was like, oh my god. And then

21:40 Speaker 4: I stopped being on acid and I completely forgot about

21:43 Speaker 4: it for about two months, and it wasn't until I

21:46 Speaker 4: was really ill that it popped back in my head

21:49 Speaker 4: and like, oh wow, I can I can check this

21:52 Speaker 4: out now. I've got no excuse not to. I'm just

21:54 Speaker 4: laying here. So I ended up checking out and the

21:58 Speaker 4: foot I ended up watching Wisdom Teachings with David Wilcock. First,

22:01 Speaker 4: because I'm like a stickler for chronology, so I saw

22:04 Speaker 4: that those episodes came before cosmic disclosure. So I was like,

22:07 Speaker 4: I know, I have to start at the beginning, right,

22:09 Speaker 4: So I started watching it. In the first few episodes

22:11 Speaker 4: are about like source field and the source field investigations,

22:15 Speaker 4: and at the time, I was desperate to get better,

22:19 Speaker 4: so I started. I was ready into meditation and stuff

22:22 Speaker 4: in crystals, and I was having a new age hippie

22:25 Speaker 4: but without the secret space aspect, right, and from learning

22:32 Speaker 4: from wisdom teachings about the source field and all that stuff,

22:35 Speaker 4: I started meditating on the source field and somehow got

22:39 Speaker 4: better to the point where doctors were like, how have

22:41 Speaker 4: you healed this quickly? So that for me that was,

22:44 Speaker 4: oh my god, it works. This stuff's legit. I'm in.

22:46 Speaker 4: I'm totally in. When it could have been any number

22:49 Speaker 4: of factors that healed me. It could have just been

22:51 Speaker 4: it could have been an environment, it could have just

22:52 Speaker 4: been my body going no, I'm going to heal you

22:55 Speaker 4: quicker so you don't have to watch this garbage anymore.

22:57 Speaker 4: It could have been anything, right, But in that.

23:02 Speaker 1: I mean I also would say, let's not count out

23:06 Speaker 1: the fact that your mentality was in a place like that,

23:10 Speaker 1: you know, the placebo effect.

23:12 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, absolutely it could have been. It could have

23:15 Speaker 4: been I made myself better by believing I could make

23:17 Speaker 4: myself better.

23:19 Speaker 1: Which is which is unique. Except that would be a

23:22 Speaker 1: huge mystery and a huge fu I mean that that

23:25 Speaker 1: would blow people's minds if you can, you know, if

23:29 Speaker 1: we could literally think ourselves well, right, the implications were

23:36 Speaker 1: to be crazy.

23:38 Speaker 4: I mean, the pharmaceutical industry would go and like go

23:42 Speaker 4: down overnight. So you start a trip to for myself

23:45 Speaker 4: that but you get my point, right.

23:47 Speaker 1: But you start asking these questions like, right am I being?

23:53 Speaker 1: Is something being suppressed in me by all the distraction

23:56 Speaker 1: and all the wonder in the world, and you know,

24:00 Speaker 1: hate ability, And you start asking yourselselves these questions, and

24:05 Speaker 1: then something like that happens right where you're right, something

24:09 Speaker 1: you can explain happens, and it almost affirms what you

24:13 Speaker 1: what you're belief what this whole other side of it.

24:17 Speaker 4: Right, Well, thinking about it now, actually a lot of

24:21 Speaker 4: the validation that came from the like the first couple

24:23 Speaker 4: of years of watching it was it seemed to validate

24:26 Speaker 4: like psychedelic experiences that I had had where I'm I've

24:31 Speaker 4: been searching for not exactly a meaning, but some kind

24:36 Speaker 4: of coder to be able to contextualize it, maybe not

24:40 Speaker 4: explain it, but at least put it in some kind

24:41 Speaker 4: of framework where I can understand it enough to process

24:45 Speaker 4: it because some of the some of the experiences I've

24:47 Speaker 4: had that are pretty crazy, and I don't really talk

24:49 Speaker 4: about them because I feel like I would sound absolutely

24:53 Speaker 4: insane if I was to explain some of the out

24:55 Speaker 4: of body experiences I've had on like mushrooms or or

24:59 Speaker 4: like I had to the d MT trip once.

25:01 Speaker 1: I was literally so have you been to the land?

25:08 Speaker 4: Yes?

25:09 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, it's a it's a weird place.

25:11 Speaker 4: Right, It's it's certainly something. I had an interesting conversation

25:15 Speaker 4: with Andrew Gallimore about it a couple of years ago.

25:18 Speaker 4: It's an interesting place we can.

25:20 Speaker 1: Talk about off that off air. I'd loved it because

25:22 Speaker 1: I can you know, I'd love to have as many

25:26 Speaker 1: conversations and work with you as much as as possible,

25:29 Speaker 1: because it's it's rare you find someone who's like yourself,

25:32 Speaker 1: you know, just in the conversations we've had. Yeah, so continue,

25:37 Speaker 1: So you're you're having these experiences.

25:41 Speaker 4: So I've had. I've had these experiences and they to

25:45 Speaker 4: be able to It was when I started watching Cosmic

25:47 Speaker 4: Disclosure and Corey started talking about in conjunction with all

25:52 Speaker 4: the stuff with the source field and the David Wilcock

25:55 Speaker 4: material that I've been learning about, the alien contact and

25:58 Speaker 4: the entity com intact and the out of seemingly out

26:02 Speaker 4: of body, out of world experiences were very much like

26:07 Speaker 4: a lot of experiences that I had had. So I

26:11 Speaker 4: was like, oh, kindred spirit. So he became exalted in

26:17 Speaker 4: my perception because, oh, here's a guy who's having the

26:20 Speaker 4: same kind of thing happened, and he's talking about it

26:23 Speaker 4: on TV and it's all flashy and well edited and

26:26 Speaker 4: must be legit. So that was kind of my mindset

26:29 Speaker 4: for a few years, and I ended up moving out

26:31 Speaker 4: to Canada. I actually met a fellow believer and I

26:37 Speaker 4: moved out to Canada to live with her and we

26:39 Speaker 4: got married and had a child. Oh wow, Yeah, so

26:43 Speaker 4: it was That's why I was in Vancouver hanging out

26:46 Speaker 4: with Graham Hancock because he was a his his wife

26:51 Speaker 4: was friends with my wife.

26:53 Speaker 1: Oh I mean, I didn't have to hang out with you, Marouffan.

26:57 Speaker 4: It was it was a good time, but it was

27:00 Speaker 4: so it there was a lot there, There was a

27:05 Speaker 4: lot of contextualization and meeting someone else who was also like,

27:08 Speaker 4: oh my god, this guy is the guy. That was

27:10 Speaker 4: also a lot of validation. And it's also a relationship dynamic,

27:14 Speaker 4: right yeah, so's it's no wonder that that relationship diminished

27:20 Speaker 4: somewhat after we fell out of the Corey Good stuff,

27:23 Speaker 4: because it was a connective tissue between the two of us, Right, So,

27:27 Speaker 4: like we're fine now, like we're we're all older and wiser,

27:32 Speaker 4: we have a we have a kid that we love

27:34 Speaker 4: more than anything. So everything's fine now, But at the

27:38 Speaker 4: time it was it played a large part in the dynamic.

27:43 Speaker 4: And this isn't exclusive, by the way, I never talk

27:45 Speaker 4: about this, so yeah, so it was just so I

27:50 Speaker 4: have a I have a daughter that technically doesn't it

27:53 Speaker 4: only exists because of Corey Good. So put that in

27:59 Speaker 4: your pipe, Corey smoking Holy ship.

28:02 Speaker 1: Man. I'm just I was not expecting wow. And and

28:09 Speaker 1: it's and that's so it's not it's this is personal

28:12 Speaker 1: for you.

28:13 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, this isn't like, this isn't like any

28:18 Speaker 4: other topic that I've I've done work on, like I

28:21 Speaker 4: do work in the extreme weather industry, which is is

28:23 Speaker 4: a personal thing. It's something I love, but it's not

28:26 Speaker 4: something where there's there's trauma attached to it, right, right, So.

28:32 Speaker 1: And you think it the other way around, but it's

28:34 Speaker 1: not right chasing tornadoes, you know, you can't expect there

28:41 Speaker 1: to be something there, but no, it's not. It's usually

28:45 Speaker 1: it's it's the other way.

28:47 Speaker 4: Well it's it's so it's different kind of trauma, I think.

28:50 Speaker 4: So it's when you have extreme weather incidents and extreme

28:53 Speaker 4: weather related trauma, it's kind of an act of God

28:58 Speaker 4: kind of thing. Whereas this this stuff it gets real

29:01 Speaker 4: pernicious and really kind of vindictive when, for example, like

29:06 Speaker 4: the group that was going after like c. W. Chanter

29:10 Speaker 4: or Joe from the Carolinas or Richard Dolan that group.

29:15 Speaker 4: What that's where the real danger is in these kind

29:19 Speaker 4: of parasocial groups where people feel emboldened to go and

29:24 Speaker 4: attack and harass people because they have a differing point

29:28 Speaker 4: of view on a very niche topic in the first place. Right, Yeah,

29:35 Speaker 4: And I.

29:36 Speaker 1: Talked about this if so, there's like a nine minute

29:40 Speaker 1: little clip or podcast I just put out where it

29:45 Speaker 1: was just me and again the synchronicities for me on

29:48 Speaker 1: this one are out of I mean, they're through the

29:51 Speaker 1: goddamn roof. Not only what I told you earlier, right,

29:56 Speaker 1: I'm going I'm seeking you guys out right, have you

30:01 Speaker 1: on you come to me in some twist of fate.

30:07 Speaker 1: And then meanwhile I just wrote like a nine page

30:12 Speaker 1: script and it ends. Part of the ending is if

30:16 Speaker 1: you're defending your favorite UFO guru and they have a

30:22 Speaker 1: page like something along those lines, like if you're defending

30:25 Speaker 1: a UFO guru like it's your fantasy football team, there's

30:30 Speaker 1: an issue. Yep, there's an issue. And that's how people

30:35 Speaker 1: defend Alessando. That's how people defend doctor Greer because they

30:41 Speaker 1: attack and they're coordinated about it. It's insanity.

30:46 Speaker 4: I've noticed a lot of this around the Ashton Forbes.

30:51 Speaker 4: It's a lot of brigading, and there's a lot of

30:54 Speaker 4: yeah's brigading people going, groups of people going off the

30:57 Speaker 4: individuals for having a different point of view and accusing

31:00 Speaker 4: them of all kinds of things, which gets to the

31:04 Speaker 4: it gets scary. Like there was a there was a

31:06 Speaker 4: point last year I quit Twitter for about six months

31:08 Speaker 4: because people started attacking me and my daughter where I'm like, no,

31:13 Speaker 4: like we're talking about lights in the sky, guys, We're

31:16 Speaker 4: not talking about like personal issues.

31:20 Speaker 1: The thing is is some people and I know we

31:26 Speaker 1: have like questions and we have things to hit on here.

31:30 Speaker 1: But you raise a very interesting quality about the UFO

31:34 Speaker 1: community because I'm not so sure it's not personal because

31:40 Speaker 1: if i mean, look at your story, if that's your story,

31:44 Speaker 1: like it kind of gets personal. And I can see

31:47 Speaker 1: where people and that's the thing is they engulf themselves

31:51 Speaker 1: in this and the UFO community, right, It's it becomes

31:57 Speaker 1: like I look on Twitter and I'm like, people have

32:00 Speaker 1: so much time to be on x all day posting,

32:06 Speaker 1: to be on spaces all day all day. They don't

32:09 Speaker 1: have jobs. It's it's seemingly they don't have jobs. They

32:13 Speaker 1: don't have bills because they would need a job, right,

32:17 Speaker 1: clearly they don't. And then it's and then they're weaponized.

32:22 Speaker 1: They're weaponized by their favorite UFO guru. Maybe not maybe

32:26 Speaker 1: not directly out in the open, but they think they

32:29 Speaker 1: have like some some large maybe it's them seeking like

32:36 Speaker 1: the approval of like some sort of authority figure.

32:42 Speaker 4: Uh. Right, it's a social dynamic. So you've got like

32:45 Speaker 4: you've got a leader, for lack of a better term,

32:47 Speaker 4: and then you've got the kind of immediate circle, which

32:52 Speaker 4: the the is the connection between the leader and the

32:54 Speaker 4: immediate circle around him. That becomes attractive for people. Right,

32:59 Speaker 4: So when when they see the reciprocity in the relationship,

33:05 Speaker 4: where oh my god, this guy's amazing and he treats

33:07 Speaker 4: his followers like really nicely and graces them with his presence,

33:13 Speaker 4: Like that's attractive to people who are looking for meaning

33:15 Speaker 4: that you brought up a really good point. It just

33:18 Speaker 4: reminded me of a quote that a good friend of

33:21 Speaker 4: mine said a couple of years ago. Now is Matthew Riott.

33:25 Speaker 4: You may have heard of him out in the UFO world.

33:29 Speaker 4: He said to me that people don't get into UFOs

33:33 Speaker 4: because they're happy. And I think that is really the

33:37 Speaker 4: bottom line when it comes to euthologies. Ninety nine point

33:41 Speaker 4: nine percent of people in this topic are here to

33:43 Speaker 4: find answers to a problem in their own lives, and

33:45 Speaker 4: they're not happy. It's not happy search. People are looking

33:48 Speaker 4: for something and when they don't find it, they get angry,

33:53 Speaker 4: or if they think they found it, they'll defend it

33:56 Speaker 4: till the death because they found that answer.

33:59 Speaker 1: And honest, you know, and I'm going to say this,

34:03 Speaker 1: this is probably the first time I've ever said this

34:04 Speaker 1: in in this way, but everything you just said is right.

34:10 Speaker 1: I came back to the UFO world after my mother

34:14 Speaker 1: died and I was searching because I don't have religion,

34:18 Speaker 1: because I don't have because you know, even though I'm

34:21 Speaker 1: sober and I've been sober, and the program you know

34:25 Speaker 1: for sobriety really like tells you like, oh, you need

34:28 Speaker 1: to find like a higher power. It doesn't have to

34:30 Speaker 1: be God, but they sure as hell wanted to.

34:32 Speaker 4: Be, you know, right right, Well, here's the thing in

34:35 Speaker 4: these dynamics, so so Corey Good, for example, he replaced

34:39 Speaker 4: God in that dynamic. He became he became the lead,

34:44 Speaker 4: the head father figure, the patriarchal figure at the top

34:47 Speaker 4: of the dynamic. And then the way that he was

34:50 Speaker 4: interacting with his followers, so inviting them to conferences, doing movies,

34:55 Speaker 4: having private group chats with them, and making them feel

34:58 Speaker 4: like they're part of the team. That's what was attractive

35:02 Speaker 4: even to me. That's why I added these people on

35:04 Speaker 4: Facebook and tried to get into these networks because it

35:07 Speaker 4: looked like it looked like where the culture was going.

35:11 Speaker 4: They created enough of an attractive storefront that made me go,

35:15 Speaker 4: I want to be in that room.

35:16 Speaker 1: So and it's I always said that, you know, it's

35:23 Speaker 1: almost like there was a there was something there, right.

35:28 Speaker 1: I mean we look at like the twenty twelve stuff

35:31 Speaker 1: and the hype that was around it, right, that kind

35:34 Speaker 1: of culture. Then Internet and the connectivity of people is rising. Right,

35:40 Speaker 1: so that becomes the gas, right, and now all you

35:45 Speaker 1: need is a spark and boom. The spark happens on

35:49 Speaker 1: December sixteenth, twenty seventeen, New York Times front page, glowing

35:55 Speaker 1: ores in black money. Boom blows up, and it's and

36:00 Speaker 1: it takes off. And from there it's I mean, we're

36:04 Speaker 1: here today.

36:06 Speaker 4: And now I would argue that that from that release,

36:10 Speaker 4: they're actually there. Was That's what caused a large, large

36:15 Speaker 4: fracture within the community between the fact based side that

36:20 Speaker 4: had kind of just tolerated they had tolerated people like

36:24 Speaker 4: Corey Good. Actually, about six months before that article came out,

36:29 Speaker 4: Richard Dolan had confronted Corey, Michael Silah, and William Tompkins

36:35 Speaker 4: on the mouf On Symposium panel in Laughlin, Nevada, and

36:40 Speaker 4: basically said like what are we doing here? Why are

36:43 Speaker 4: we talking about reptilians and the Galactic Federation? That what

36:46 Speaker 4: I thought was a serious UFO conferences. It's fricking move on.

36:50 Speaker 4: This is supposed to be like the tippy top, like

36:53 Speaker 4: in the top three UFO conferences in the world, and

36:56 Speaker 4: they're sitting there talking about completely on proven things and complete,

37:02 Speaker 4: completely unprovable things.

37:04 Speaker 1: Which would have been okay if you had I mean,

37:09 Speaker 1: it's not okay. I mean, let's say it. It's not okay.

37:13 Speaker 1: Grifting and being a charlatan, especially because you you know

37:17 Speaker 1: that they put Dolan on that panel to legitimize it, yes.

37:22 Speaker 4: And I know that he only agreed to do it

37:25 Speaker 4: so that he could push back, right. He did an

37:30 Speaker 4: interview shortly after with Bill Ryan Well he essentially said

37:33 Speaker 4: as much. I'm I'm kind of paraphrasing. It's been a

37:37 Speaker 4: few years since I listened to it, but from what

37:39 Speaker 4: I remember, the general just was he he was offered

37:43 Speaker 4: it so like it was a two way things, so

37:45 Speaker 4: they wanted him to legitimize it, and he wanted to

37:48 Speaker 4: be there to be like no and pushed back, which

37:51 Speaker 4: is what which is what he did. In the most

37:54 Speaker 4: dolarite respectful way. It is such a nice guy to people.

38:00 Speaker 4: I wouldn't I wouldn't have been that nice about it.

38:02 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm gonna create a marker right here so if

38:04 Speaker 1: I can get it to play, if I can insert it,

38:08 Speaker 1: you know, it's probably gonna play right now. But yeah,

38:13 Speaker 1: the way Dolan does it is it's it's so Dolan.

38:16 Speaker 1: It's like it's I love it, I really do. He's

38:19 Speaker 1: such a good guy. And I you know, he's someone

38:21 Speaker 1: who I've I talked to, you know, on a because

38:25 Speaker 1: I'm close with Bassett and you know, Bob Sallas and

38:30 Speaker 1: you know, all these guys who are like real you

38:33 Speaker 1: know what I consider like the more data driven side community,

38:39 Speaker 1: and that's kind of where I am. I am nuts

38:42 Speaker 1: and bolts when you break it down. But I'm not

38:45 Speaker 1: afraid to have the abduction conversations, the space secret space stuff. Right.

38:51 Speaker 1: It's just and and actually I got invited onto a podcast.

38:54 Speaker 1: Not to deviate too much. I got invited onto a podcast,

38:57 Speaker 1: and I'm not I don't want to name any names

38:58 Speaker 1: because I don't want to. I'll tell you in the private,

39:01 Speaker 1: in private who it is, because I just don't want

39:04 Speaker 1: to stroke any fires. Of course, but when I realized

39:08 Speaker 1: I had said yes because uh circumstance, there was so

39:14 Speaker 1: much going on. I was asked to be on a

39:16 Speaker 1: show and I go, oh, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure,

39:18 Speaker 1: I'll do it. And uh then I look into who

39:21 Speaker 1: it is and I realized, at the same time as

39:25 Speaker 1: I'm about to drop all this stuff, talk to you

39:30 Speaker 1: one of those people who's always perpetrating the stories of

39:34 Speaker 1: like Emery Smith. Oh you probably know who it is now,

39:38 Speaker 1: but I didn't realize it. And I'm like, hey, I

39:44 Speaker 1: don't believe in what you do. I'm sorry, but I'm sorry.

39:48 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna retract my my yes because I

39:53 Speaker 1: can't be a part of something like that. I apologize.

39:56 Speaker 1: I was like, and you know this is this. I

40:00 Speaker 1: don't mean any disrespect. I just I think that you're

40:04 Speaker 1: like I think you're in a cult. I mean, play it,

40:09 Speaker 1: want to play it?

40:10 Speaker 4: You said it, not me. I said, I may agree,

40:14 Speaker 4: I may not agree. You can infu.

40:17 Speaker 1: And that's the thing is is we need we need

40:23 Speaker 1: I cannot stress this enough. We need balance UFOs Lights

40:30 Speaker 1: in the Sky Babe. You great job, great job, keep

40:34 Speaker 1: it to good work. Thank you, Jess. Excellent So What

40:39 Speaker 1: we need in this community is balance. We need to

40:44 Speaker 1: be checked. We need that because UFOs cannot be your

40:49 Speaker 1: whole life. I mean you need to be able to

40:52 Speaker 1: go out and disconnect from this topic and have a

40:55 Speaker 1: regular what we would call regular life or do regular

40:59 Speaker 1: things your friends, like go, touch, grasp, whatever it is.

41:02 Speaker 1: I don't care. You know, do iahuasca in South America?

41:06 Speaker 1: Honestly do that?

41:08 Speaker 4: Do that? Last one, get out of the virtualization bubble

41:11 Speaker 4: is essentially because that's what's happened then. It's happened with

41:14 Speaker 4: every every kind of topic. It's virtualization where we've moved

41:19 Speaker 4: from the ability to like so say in nineteen ninety

41:24 Speaker 4: you would hear for about UFO cases and UFO conferences

41:28 Speaker 4: through a magazine subscription, so like UFO News or UFO Review,

41:34 Speaker 4: and then that would create opportunities for actually interested people

41:40 Speaker 4: to travel to these conferences and kind of interface with

41:45 Speaker 4: other likewise interested people, and it creates this kind of

41:49 Speaker 4: empathetic exchange where you can trust people a little more

41:54 Speaker 4: because you've actually met them. I experienced this myself before

41:58 Speaker 4: I went to contact in the dozer it I was

42:01 Speaker 4: more leaning towards the say the Stephen Cambian attitude of

42:05 Speaker 4: they're all grifters, they're all awful people, they all know

42:07 Speaker 4: what they're doing right. And it wasn't until I went

42:09 Speaker 4: to Contact in the Desert and I just saw these

42:13 Speaker 4: people as people, not as names and stuff on the screen.

42:17 Speaker 4: I actually saw them. I spoke to many of them,

42:21 Speaker 4: and I realized that it's not some nefarious thing, it's

42:25 Speaker 4: not some huge conspiracy. They're just people that talk, and

42:29 Speaker 4: interest goes up and goes down based on audience whim

42:33 Speaker 4: at the end of the day. So if they have

42:36 Speaker 4: something interesting to say, then then they'll get a highest

42:39 Speaker 4: slot on the speaking engagement. But if they don't, then

42:42 Speaker 4: they get pushed down. And it's which does create its

42:45 Speaker 4: own issues with impetus to create interesting content, which we

42:48 Speaker 4: saw with Corey and David Good, Corey and David Good,

42:51 Speaker 4: David and Corey Good. I think as a play we

42:56 Speaker 4: play a clip in the In Dark Alliance of David

42:59 Speaker 4: on FAD's Black Outright saying to Jimmy, it's getting really

43:04 Speaker 4: hard to come up with new material every week for

43:06 Speaker 4: these shows. And to be honest, I don't know why

43:10 Speaker 4: he said that to the world when he's trying to

43:13 Speaker 4: say that this stuff is real. But that's David for you.

43:17 Speaker 1: So yeah, Jimmy is So I do want to talk

43:22 Speaker 1: about Jimmy a little bit, Okay, but not yet because

43:28 Speaker 1: I want to I want to keep this in a

43:30 Speaker 1: linear fashion.

43:31 Speaker 4: Okay, so linearly, I think we had got up to

43:33 Speaker 4: the start of production.

43:35 Speaker 1: Right, and so I want for the audiences who may

43:40 Speaker 1: not be super familiar, we've talked about these two people,

43:44 Speaker 1: David Wilcox and Corey Good. Can you just I mean,

43:48 Speaker 1: don't spoil the film, obviously, but can you do like

43:52 Speaker 1: a real, a brief like synopsis of the story. Who

43:58 Speaker 1: is Corey Good? Who David wilcoks so.

44:02 Speaker 4: David Wilcock is a New Age spiritualist, author and show

44:07 Speaker 4: host entertainer. He had been on Ancient Aliens on the

44:11 Speaker 4: History Channel. He had been on various coast to coast episodes,

44:15 Speaker 4: and there was a book written about him by Win

44:17 Speaker 4: Three in two thousand and four alleging that he is

44:19 Speaker 4: the reincarnation of Edgar Casey, which is is crazy. It's

44:24 Speaker 4: a crazy it's a crazy thing. But his main thing

44:28 Speaker 4: up until twenty twelve was the twenty twelve ascension shift,

44:32 Speaker 4: and when that didn't happen. Jay Widner reached out and

44:36 Speaker 4: offered him a show at Guia dot com. After a

44:39 Speaker 4: little while, he wanted more income, essentially, so he asked

44:45 Speaker 4: for a second show and started vetting insiders and I

44:50 Speaker 4: say this with quotes insiders to be his insider on

44:55 Speaker 4: this new show where they come on and they talk about,

44:58 Speaker 4: you know, whatever experiences they would have had and whatever

45:00 Speaker 4: narrative they wanted to push. And it came down to

45:02 Speaker 4: two people that came down to Shame the Ruiner and

45:05 Speaker 4: Corey Good. Corey Good starts implementing the Law of One

45:09 Speaker 4: into his testimony, which is he basically he had found

45:14 Speaker 4: out that David lived with Carla Ruckert, the lady who

45:17 Speaker 4: channeled the Law of One in the eighties. He lived

45:19 Speaker 4: with her in the late nineties. And you know, he's

45:22 Speaker 4: very adept at the material. So when he started integrating

45:25 Speaker 4: that into his UFO narrative, he was chosen and to

45:30 Speaker 4: put to keep this kind of concise because I could

45:33 Speaker 4: go on, I could tell the whole story like this.

45:36 Speaker 4: David got Corey to be to be the guest on

45:40 Speaker 4: his second show on Guia dot com. Now, this show

45:44 Speaker 4: caused the it got so popular and so viral that

45:47 Speaker 4: the stock price for Guia the company went up three

45:51 Speaker 4: hundred million dollars while that show was on air.

45:55 Speaker 1: People realized, so I think they're actually the percentage because

45:59 Speaker 1: we have to pay attention percentages on stock rather than

46:02 Speaker 1: the number. I think it increased like almost like three

46:07 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty percent or something like.

46:08 Speaker 4: That, something like that. It was it was running, it

46:11 Speaker 4: was about yeah, it was. Their market cap was about

46:16 Speaker 4: seventy five million before.

46:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and then it was up to three hundred million.

46:21 Speaker 1: So you got to think, right, So if people don't

46:25 Speaker 1: realize that stock's like it's the number doesn't really mean much.

46:29 Speaker 1: It's it's how much of a you know, what did

46:32 Speaker 1: you buy in at versus what is it?

46:34 Speaker 4: Where? Right?

46:35 Speaker 1: Right, that's where the money is, right, So I mean

46:38 Speaker 1: if you had if you had stock in Guaya before

46:41 Speaker 1: the episode, you are now pretty wealthy.

46:44 Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh for sure. Some people made a lot of

46:48 Speaker 4: money on early investment in gia ye just because of

46:52 Speaker 4: this explosive growth. But because of that explosive growth and

46:57 Speaker 4: to get back to the kind of concise thing of this, sorry,

47:00 Speaker 4: after a while of having these two shows, these super

47:02 Speaker 4: popular shows, they wanted more and GIA wasn't going to

47:07 Speaker 4: give them more. So they plotted, allegedly, I'm going to

47:10 Speaker 4: say allegedly, because this is still being arbitrated by the courts. Allegedly,

47:15 Speaker 4: they work together to bring down Geia's stock price and

47:20 Speaker 4: essentially wear them down from the inside. So when they

47:24 Speaker 4: leave and create their own version of GIA, a lot

47:27 Speaker 4: of the existing audience would leave and they would be

47:31 Speaker 4: left with less infrastructure, less stock price. And like I said,

47:36 Speaker 4: this is currently being being arbitrated in the court. So

47:39 Speaker 4: GIA is countersuing the ricosuit based on these claims. So,

47:46 Speaker 4: and for what it's worth, I've heard evidence of this collusion.

47:53 Speaker 4: We couldn't put it in the documentary obviously because it's

47:55 Speaker 4: it's more suit evidence. This isn't for public consumption yet.

47:59 Speaker 4: But I've heard it. I know that I have to

48:02 Speaker 4: say allegedly, but I've heard them say the words.

48:06 Speaker 1: So it's uh yeah, hear guys. I mean it's crazy,

48:10 Speaker 1: and that's the thing is uh so, So okay, So

48:14 Speaker 1: these these two people, they they kind of they kind

48:20 Speaker 1: of take the world, or at least the UFO world

48:23 Speaker 1: by storm telling this this you know, really wild and

48:28 Speaker 1: crazy story about how Corey had been attached to what

48:34 Speaker 1: is known as the quote unquote New Age Secret Space Program,

48:40 Speaker 1: and how he had gone fifteen or is it what

48:46 Speaker 1: is it?

48:46 Speaker 4: Twenty fifty twenty and back, but he said they did

48:49 Speaker 4: three consecutive twenty and backs, but you only he did

48:53 Speaker 4: a twenty and back, And then about two years later

48:55 Speaker 4: he comes out on stage and went, oh, I actually

48:57 Speaker 4: did three of them. Oh my god, which is like, oh, okay, reccon.

49:03 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So what that what happens when okay, what

49:08 Speaker 1: allegedly happens when you go out on one of these

49:12 Speaker 1: twenty and backs.

49:14 Speaker 4: So allegedly you are taken. So first of all, before

49:19 Speaker 4: you're taken, you are identified as an intuitive m path

49:22 Speaker 4: via the kind of it's kind of special special ed

49:28 Speaker 4: classes in American middle schools.

49:31 Speaker 1: I guess there are those things I can right.

49:34 Speaker 4: Like pass classes or something. I saw the acronym about

49:39 Speaker 4: a week ago. It's it's super in my mind right now.

49:41 Speaker 4: But so he was allegedly identified through these testing means

49:45 Speaker 4: and taken on training lessons or sessions, and from that

49:53 Speaker 4: he was then taken from his home at sixteen years old,

49:58 Speaker 4: served twenty years in the Secret Space program and then's

50:02 Speaker 4: age regressed and time regressed back to the point at

50:05 Speaker 4: which he left, and then he doesn't recover those memories

50:08 Speaker 4: until twenty years later. So like so for those twenty years,

50:12 Speaker 4: he's technically in two places. So there's the age regressed

50:17 Speaker 4: version of whether there's like pre age regression version of

50:21 Speaker 4: him out in space, and then there's normal coreer.

50:26 Speaker 1: Oh god, so fun.

50:28 Speaker 4: It gets really confusing. But this is a question I've had.

50:31 Speaker 4: I've never seen anybody really kind of contemplate if he's

50:35 Speaker 4: out there on three consecutive twenty and backs, at any

50:39 Speaker 4: point did he interact with himself and how did that work?

50:44 Speaker 4: Once once you start applying logic, the whole thing breaks down.

50:48 Speaker 4: Does none of it makes any sense?

50:50 Speaker 1: Because he I mean so essentially what they're saying is

50:54 Speaker 1: so at sixteen, he gets taken into this program, he

50:58 Speaker 1: gets sent off into space, and because of relativity, he's

51:05 Speaker 1: fighting wars in the Kuyper Belt like and then.

51:09 Speaker 4: Like he's he's part of the off world forces. And

51:12 Speaker 4: he tries to tie this into like solar warden and

51:16 Speaker 4: uh McKinnon.

51:17 Speaker 1: Right, Gary McKinnon, what he saw in the nineties.

51:20 Speaker 4: Right, But he never he never saw here's the thing.

51:24 Speaker 4: Gary McKinnon at no point ever witnessed the term solar warden.

51:28 Speaker 4: This was a term invented on above top secret about

51:30 Speaker 4: two years later, which this has all been wrapped into

51:34 Speaker 4: the They bank on the fact that no one knows.

51:36 Speaker 1: This right and it's very put a pin in, Put

51:41 Speaker 1: a pin in that, because that become important. Ship we

51:44 Speaker 1: might be doing three hours. I don't know, man, but

51:48 Speaker 1: for as long as you can stay of course, I

51:50 Speaker 1: know you're you're in the five five ahead. You're in

51:54 Speaker 1: You're in the five ahead program.

51:56 Speaker 4: I'm in the five ahead program. It spot it spawns

52:00 Speaker 4: by Wolcock's five head. You could, sorry, David, I'm sorry.

52:15 Speaker 1: That Yeah, I can't.

52:19 Speaker 4: Maybe maybe put it over. Put it over the credits

52:24 Speaker 4: so good.

52:26 Speaker 1: That was like comedic perfect timing. Yeah, okay, so so

52:30 Speaker 1: all right. So Corey is allegedly at sixty eighties out

52:34 Speaker 1: in space and he's fighting. By the way, this guy

52:37 Speaker 1: doesn't look like he could he could knock over uh

52:43 Speaker 1: a strawberry bush, like hold a rifle with the yeah

52:49 Speaker 1: space gear. He does not. You look fuck when he started.

52:54 Speaker 4: When he started on the show, he looked like a

52:57 Speaker 4: chubby noodle and now he just looks like a wet noodle,

53:02 Speaker 4: Like it just looks like and it's it's funny how

53:06 Speaker 4: he lost all that weight. He said that he went

53:08 Speaker 4: down to Sedona and started learning how to be a vegan,

53:12 Speaker 4: and that's when he started doing all this like, oh,

53:14 Speaker 4: you have to you have to start being vegan and

53:16 Speaker 4: doing all this stuff. It's because of a bridget something

53:20 Speaker 4: down down in Sedona. She's this vegan food person that

53:24 Speaker 4: even yeah.

53:24 Speaker 1: And that's actually crept its way into the main narrative

53:29 Speaker 1: now where yeah, they think that if you eat meat,

53:32 Speaker 1: I mean, if you don't eat meat and you're a vegan,

53:35 Speaker 1: that you have better chance of contact. It's like, guys,

53:40 Speaker 1: did did you not just hear that? You know, we

53:43 Speaker 1: we kind of figured out that plants not only are

53:45 Speaker 1: they living, but they're screaming when we're down, like just

53:51 Speaker 1: because you think you're you know, you're save in the world,

53:57 Speaker 1: like right by eating plants. Like remember, we've always known

54:00 Speaker 1: that those are living things to some degree, So right,

54:04 Speaker 1: get your bullshit out of here.

54:06 Speaker 4: It's interesting because the way that they presented the whole

54:09 Speaker 4: vegan thing at the time. I ended up being vegan

54:12 Speaker 4: for about two and a half years, like the entire

54:14 Speaker 4: time I lived in Canada, I was vegan, And yeah,

54:18 Speaker 4: like this idea that it increases the ability to make

54:22 Speaker 4: contact is patently false. You're starving your brain of nutrients

54:27 Speaker 4: every day, you're delirious, you're not having contact, you're unwell.

54:33 Speaker 4: That I had. Once I started integrating meatback in in

54:39 Speaker 4: like late twenty nineteen, it was like my brain switched

54:42 Speaker 4: on and at the same time, I'm like exiting the

54:45 Speaker 4: cory stuff. So it was like it was, I don't know,

54:48 Speaker 4: it was almost like a rebirth. Like I felt like

54:50 Speaker 4: I had to kind of start the process of being

54:52 Speaker 4: human all over again because my brain suddenly like, oh,

54:56 Speaker 4: I'm a brain, I can think straight, I could have

55:00 Speaker 4: who thought I have? And I think that's actually one

55:03 Speaker 4: reason why he wanted people to go vegan, is because

55:07 Speaker 4: it erodes the mental strength that they have because slowly, over time,

55:12 Speaker 4: the getting less and less nutrients, less and less like

55:16 Speaker 4: protein or whatever that they it just wears that wasn't down,

55:21 Speaker 4: wasn't down to the point where they acquiesce.

55:23 Speaker 1: You almost have to like look at Corey and be like,

55:25 Speaker 1: it's kind he's kind of fucking genius. The way the

55:31 Speaker 1: way all is I mean, he's a cult leader.

55:35 Speaker 4: He's up I mean, he's certainly friends with a cult leader.

55:39 Speaker 1: Yeah. I put him up against Jim Jones, putting him

55:43 Speaker 1: up against God. Now, they're all gonna not come to

55:47 Speaker 1: my head. Of course, Heaven's gate. Put him up against

55:50 Speaker 1: any of these cult leaders that are well known, and

55:53 Speaker 1: look at the antics and the stuff that's being used

55:58 Speaker 1: to control the the followers, and I mean it's almost identical.

56:07 Speaker 4: Right. Well, it's it's the dynamic, right, It's what makes

56:11 Speaker 4: these people attractive to followers. It's charisma, an interesting story,

56:17 Speaker 4: or perceived power.

56:20 Speaker 5: Right.

56:20 Speaker 1: So so okay, so Corey, Corey goes, you know again

56:26 Speaker 1: God complex here, this is the you know, like this

56:30 Speaker 1: is again we're tying that back. Look, this guy he's

56:34 Speaker 1: you know, he's doing secret space. I mean he's doing

56:39 Speaker 1: missions and and he's working on the New Age secret

56:43 Speaker 1: Space program. He's twenty and back. He's done three of them.

56:46 Speaker 1: So he's he's done sixty years of service. He's super decorated,

56:52 Speaker 1: but nothing to show for it because he's regressed back

56:56 Speaker 1: to the age he's back at and only he recovers

56:58 Speaker 1: the memories through regression. Only some you know twenty odd

57:02 Speaker 1: years later.

57:04 Speaker 4: And then contact starts again, like this is the other

57:06 Speaker 4: thing he has always repressed, that regressed memories where all

57:10 Speaker 4: his memory is coming back of the twenty and backs

57:12 Speaker 4: that he's done and the experience is there. But once

57:15 Speaker 4: he starts talking to David Wilcock, then current contact begins

57:21 Speaker 4: and it begins a whole new story of soaprop Prissianalians

57:24 Speaker 4: where he's being taken off world and he's he's the

57:27 Speaker 4: galactic ambassador for Earth inside the Galactic Federation and they're

57:31 Speaker 4: using him as bait in order to kill Reptilians because

57:34 Speaker 4: they think he's the modern day reincarnation of Enoch. It's

57:38 Speaker 4: it's wild, it's insane.

57:41 Speaker 1: So so continue with that, ready, I mean, obviously I

57:47 Speaker 1: don't know how to say this. Obviously there's so when

57:52 Speaker 1: they come on the scene, like we'll go, We'll even

57:56 Speaker 1: go like past Gaya, right, because I mean that's.

58:00 Speaker 4: It definitely evolved past Guy.

58:01 Speaker 5: Right.

58:01 Speaker 4: They ended up doing movies and conferences and it just

58:05 Speaker 4: evolved beyond the show. It became a world that they

58:09 Speaker 4: were inhabiting.

58:10 Speaker 1: And for anyone who wants like the full like and

58:14 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the full picture guys, you can go

58:20 Speaker 1: watch Dark Alliance. I think it's free right now as well.

58:23 Speaker 4: On it's free, it's free on two b It's free

58:26 Speaker 4: on Amazon Prime if you're in the UK. It's available

58:29 Speaker 4: for purchase on on Amazon America, Apple TV. I mean,

58:33 Speaker 4: I'm not gonna say do it for free because I

58:37 Speaker 4: want I want your money. It costs money to do

58:40 Speaker 4: these things, but we met it at super cost effective.

58:44 Speaker 4: It's it's two dollars an episode, which is probably the

58:48 Speaker 4: best deal you're going to find on UFO documentary out there.

58:50 Speaker 1: So at it right now. And like again, guys, I

58:53 Speaker 1: will you know, I'm a filmmaker myself. You know I

58:58 Speaker 1: went to film programs. It is not And that's the

59:02 Speaker 1: thing is, you know, I do this show and I

59:05 Speaker 1: don't ask for donations like other people. I do put

59:09 Speaker 1: it up there as an ability, uh, for for people

59:12 Speaker 1: to do and for members. I give them early access

59:16 Speaker 1: and a bonus segment for each episode. And that's what

59:19 Speaker 1: you get, right There's none you know, and and and

59:23 Speaker 1: you pay what you want from from two bucks to

59:25 Speaker 1: ten bucks. You pick what you the show is worth

59:28 Speaker 1: to you. And that's kind of what they did with

59:30 Speaker 1: with with this documentary is I mean, it does cost

59:33 Speaker 1: money to make these things, so like you.

59:36 Speaker 4: Can find it for We don't begrudge anyone for having

59:39 Speaker 4: it for free, not at all. But if you can't,

59:41 Speaker 4: if you don't, if you can't afford it and you

59:42 Speaker 4: need you just want to access the information, that's fine.

59:45 Speaker 4: But if you, we do implore people to support us

59:47 Speaker 4: because the support means that we can make more. And

59:50 Speaker 4: the biggest thing that we've heard since this came out is, please,

59:54 Speaker 4: for the love of God, make more of this. I

59:57 Speaker 4: want two episodes. Wasn't enough? I agree to episodes. Wasn't

1:00:00 Speaker 4: it enough? It wasn't. It's yeah.

1:00:03 Speaker 1: So so with that being said, I'll put all the links,

1:00:06 Speaker 1: uh anyone. Links will be in the description below for

1:00:09 Speaker 1: the purchase. I highly recommend it because I think this

1:00:14 Speaker 1: is almost like necessary reading for anyone who is new

1:00:19 Speaker 1: to the community, especially new, because we know you're probably hurting.

1:00:25 Speaker 1: We know that you're probably searching for answers and something

1:00:28 Speaker 1: that is bigger than yourself. Don't get sucked in. So

1:00:36 Speaker 1: really really like this. It's an incredible documentary. I couldn't

1:00:41 Speaker 1: recommend it enough. And I want to get into a

1:00:44 Speaker 1: couple of things here sure now in the documentary you feature,

1:00:50 Speaker 1: I'm I am so sorry right now his name is

1:00:52 Speaker 1: not coming to me, okay, kay not not Jay wider

1:00:58 Speaker 1: uh Leo, the younger guy. Oh Jordan. Yes, I'm so sorry.

1:01:04 Speaker 1: And I reached out to him to have him on

1:01:05 Speaker 1: the show. I really do want to because I want

1:01:08 Speaker 1: to be able to dissect it, like and I think

1:01:11 Speaker 1: you're you're just as amazing and I want to talk

1:01:15 Speaker 1: to all of you.

1:01:16 Speaker 4: His perspective is certainly very interesting because he was one

1:01:19 Speaker 4: kind of like one level up from from where I was.

1:01:23 Speaker 4: Right he was, he was on that inner circle that

1:01:26 Speaker 4: was attractive to me to try and get to, and

1:01:29 Speaker 4: he was the guy he was like I remember when

1:01:31 Speaker 4: I first saw him, it was the is David Wilcock

1:01:34 Speaker 4: a lying sack of misinformation? That was his first big

1:01:36 Speaker 4: viral video in the community, and I immediately added him

1:01:39 Speaker 4: and was like, this is the guy. This guy's like

1:01:41 Speaker 4: my age and he's talking about this stuff that I'm

1:01:44 Speaker 4: really into now.

1:01:45 Speaker 1: So so yeah, Jordan has this charisma. He's a good

1:01:50 Speaker 1: looking guy, he's he's well spoken, he's almost like the

1:01:57 Speaker 1: perfect storm for him arises obviously, like you know, you know,

1:02:00 Speaker 1: YouTube's really taking off. He builds this channel and then

1:02:06 Speaker 1: he gets noticed by Corey Good and David Wilcox because

1:02:13 Speaker 1: they see another avenue. Now this is post Gaya. So again,

1:02:17 Speaker 1: for anyone who wants like the full full story, links

1:02:20 Speaker 1: are in the description below. But they grab Jordan, and

1:02:26 Speaker 1: I want you to talk about this. So they grab

1:02:29 Speaker 1: Jordan and why did they do that? I want you

1:02:33 Speaker 1: to explain that and what happens to Jordan?

1:02:39 Speaker 4: Okay, so let's unpack that. So it was late twenty sixteen.

1:02:46 Speaker 4: Jordan had been it made a couple of videos about

1:02:49 Speaker 4: free energy and like anti gravity drives and secret space stuff,

1:02:55 Speaker 4: but not it's very like proto form. It was very

1:03:00 Speaker 4: early stuff, and Roger Ram saw he was actually he

1:03:04 Speaker 4: was running the Full Disclosure Now brand and page. He

1:03:09 Speaker 4: was essentially Corey's manager. He'll swear up and down he

1:03:12 Speaker 4: wasn't his manager, but we all knew him as his manager.

1:03:16 Speaker 4: That's how he presented himself at the time. So he

1:03:19 Speaker 4: reaches out to Jordan and goes, hey, do you want

1:03:21 Speaker 4: to come work on this Full Disclosure Now thing that

1:03:25 Speaker 4: I've started supporting the work of Corey Good. So he

1:03:28 Speaker 4: starts making videos for that channel and for that blog

1:03:33 Speaker 4: over the course of like the next few months, and

1:03:36 Speaker 4: then he makes the David Wilcock video and that's the

1:03:39 Speaker 4: one that kind of elevated him past just being on

1:03:42 Speaker 4: Roger's little disclosure team and into the oh, you've entered

1:03:47 Speaker 4: the big leagues. Now you've called that David. And then

1:03:49 Speaker 4: David reposted it, and that's actually how I saw it

1:03:52 Speaker 4: was David posted it. And from there it was very quickly,

1:03:56 Speaker 4: like within six weeks, he's flying out to Palm Springs

1:03:59 Speaker 4: to go to com In tucked in the desert. Then

1:04:02 Speaker 4: he was invited out to the MUFMON Symposium.

1:04:07 Speaker 1: Both of which I'm attending this year, so ironic right on.

1:04:11 Speaker 1: And then yeah, but anyway.

1:04:15 Speaker 4: Then he got then he got invited out to Corey's

1:04:18 Speaker 4: technically his first conference that's kind of under Corey's name

1:04:26 Speaker 4: at the time. In twenty sixteen, there was a conference

1:04:28 Speaker 4: in there was a conference in Mount Shasta, but it

1:04:30 Speaker 4: wasn't run by Corey, but he kind of tried to

1:04:33 Speaker 4: present it like it was his conference, but it wasn't.

1:04:35 Speaker 4: So a year later they do on the day of

1:04:39 Speaker 4: that big North American eclipse in twenty seventeen, out there

1:04:43 Speaker 4: at McLeod in Mount Shaster, that's right, right, So they

1:04:48 Speaker 4: have a conference out there and that's what that was.

1:04:53 Speaker 4: Basically when they started hatching the plan to make Above Majestic,

1:04:57 Speaker 4: which was the first movie that they had start that

1:05:01 Speaker 4: they put out basically bolstering this new aide secret space

1:05:05 Speaker 4: program idea, and really it was one of the first

1:05:08 Speaker 4: films to actually uncritically examine these things. And to me,

1:05:15 Speaker 4: it just played out like a boring ancient Aliens episode

1:05:18 Speaker 4: with a lot of droney music. But I can see

1:05:21 Speaker 4: why a lot of people liked it because it was

1:05:24 Speaker 4: at the time they're also tapping into the seventeenth letter

1:05:28 Speaker 4: of the alphabet tinfoil. That kind of right. It tied

1:05:32 Speaker 4: into a lot of this stuff because they're talking about

1:05:35 Speaker 4: trafficking and they're talking about children being taken off world like.

1:05:39 Speaker 4: It kind of ties in a lot to this mass

1:05:40 Speaker 4: arrest narrative that they were pushing. And then when they

1:05:44 Speaker 4: did The Cosmic Secret, it was kind of more of

1:05:46 Speaker 4: the same, but they learnt lessons where they made it colorful.

1:05:49 Speaker 4: They got rid of the boring music. But these movies,

1:05:53 Speaker 4: the genesis of them was this summer of twenty seventeen

1:05:57 Speaker 4: where simultaneously they start wanting to make movies together, they

1:06:00 Speaker 4: get their kind of Avengers team put together, and at

1:06:03 Speaker 4: the same time the first critics are coming out of

1:06:05 Speaker 4: the woodwork. So you've got Richard Doylan and Bill Ryan

1:06:07 Speaker 4: and C. W. Chanter or Stephen Cambien like these people

1:06:13 Speaker 4: started posting critically about it at the same time as

1:06:17 Speaker 4: they start making movies, which is quite quite a synchronicity,

1:06:20 Speaker 4: I think. So now as as they grew, so did

1:06:24 Speaker 4: the descent.

1:06:26 Speaker 1: Absolutely.

1:06:27 Speaker 4: Yeah.

1:06:28 Speaker 1: And and you know, for me the people that you

1:06:31 Speaker 1: just mentioned, you know, I do want to I want

1:06:35 Speaker 1: to talk about I want to because Stephen Cambien becomes

1:06:42 Speaker 1: really hell bent on kind of exposing David and Corey.

1:06:50 Speaker 2: Uh.

1:06:50 Speaker 1: And you know, I really do commend him for for

1:06:53 Speaker 1: being able to do what he did. Sometimes. You know,

1:06:57 Speaker 1: Stephen and I we we we are very usually pretty cordial.

1:07:03 Speaker 1: And you know, if he's listening to this, if he

1:07:06 Speaker 1: listens to it, yeah, I'd love to talk I really

1:07:10 Speaker 1: would so. But going back to going back to it,

1:07:17 Speaker 1: obviously the critics arise. But I mean, the new Aide

1:07:21 Speaker 1: secret space program has taken on a life of its own.

1:07:25 Speaker 1: It is generating millions of views. It is generating revenue,

1:07:32 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden people aren't getting paid.

1:07:36 Speaker 4: Right, That was the that was the next thank you

1:07:39 Speaker 4: for catching me up. My add got hold of me.

1:07:42 Speaker 4: Then I forgot where I wasn't the story. So after

1:07:45 Speaker 4: a few months after the second movie comes out, so

1:07:49 Speaker 4: it is I think January of twenty twenty, February of

1:07:53 Speaker 4: twenty twenty, that's when the last payments come through. And

1:07:57 Speaker 4: they'd already been a big fight over percentages behind this

1:08:00 Speaker 4: seams where Corey wanted to cut David out of a percentage.

1:08:03 Speaker 4: Jordan wasn't getting a very large percentage, and so that

1:08:08 Speaker 4: the executive producer, Guy Leon Kennedy, he kind of had

1:08:12 Speaker 4: to kind of get involved and be like, no, you're

1:08:16 Speaker 4: going to pay people like what they're worth, like, you're

1:08:18 Speaker 4: not going to give them nothing. And that's from there

1:08:25 Speaker 4: it kind of just fell apart because it turned out

1:08:27 Speaker 4: that Corey had he had switched the bank account at

1:08:31 Speaker 4: ten ninety one Productions from the kind of the corporate

1:08:35 Speaker 4: account that was transparent to his personal account which wasn't transparent,

1:08:43 Speaker 4: and then claimed that they had to audit it in

1:08:46 Speaker 4: order to find out what happened and how who owes

1:08:50 Speaker 4: who what basically, and this audit went on. I think

1:08:54 Speaker 4: it's still going on, like people who have just just

1:08:57 Speaker 4: have not been paid since twenty twenty.

1:09:00 Speaker 1: And now, of course I say this not knowing you know,

1:09:06 Speaker 1: I haven't done like a super tremendous amount of research

1:09:09 Speaker 1: into it. But ten ninety one is that issues other

1:09:12 Speaker 1: than this with paying people I've had. Yes, this is

1:09:17 Speaker 1: not the first time that ten ninety one has been

1:09:20 Speaker 1: at the center of some sort of kind of issue.

1:09:25 Speaker 1: And what I will say is it sounds like with

1:09:29 Speaker 1: this one, Corey was to like you could say ten

1:09:35 Speaker 1: ninety one is partial, you know, partially to blame. But

1:09:38 Speaker 1: I think Corey remains the sole, like the sole bad guy.

1:09:43 Speaker 4: In this.

1:09:45 Speaker 1: He clearly, I mean, look at what he does to

1:09:48 Speaker 1: anyone who gets close to him. Every single person is

1:09:53 Speaker 1: almost like a stepping stone. And if you go through it,

1:09:56 Speaker 1: every single person that propped Cory up, eventually he gets

1:10:00 Speaker 1: stabbed in the back to some degree, get ripped off

1:10:04 Speaker 1: or attacked by a group of people who have been

1:10:10 Speaker 1: coordinated to attack this person in order to destroy their

1:10:16 Speaker 1: A livelihood, b credibility and see their you know, image

1:10:23 Speaker 1: in who they are in the community. So all of

1:10:25 Speaker 1: a sudden, you have this like this this real, real,

1:10:31 Speaker 1: real stuff happening, arising from what is later talked about

1:10:37 Speaker 1: in a deposition, which really I'm so glad that that

1:10:40 Speaker 1: video got released because that was the final nail in

1:10:44 Speaker 1: a coffin that had been building itself for many years.

1:10:48 Speaker 1: But the moment Corey Good is pressured on in deposition

1:10:53 Speaker 1: about did you actually go to space?

1:10:59 Speaker 4: And he goes, in my physical body, I don't believe. So, like,

1:11:05 Speaker 4: what kind of answer is that this guy had been

1:11:08 Speaker 4: parading around for the time the last seven years saying

1:11:12 Speaker 4: this stuff is real. This conference is paying me x

1:11:15 Speaker 4: amount of dollars to come on stage and say this

1:11:17 Speaker 4: is real. Now he's going to sit there and say, oh,

1:11:20 Speaker 4: this was all just a marketing tactic for my comic series. Well,

1:11:23 Speaker 4: that's misrepresenting on contracts, buddy, Right, So.

1:11:28 Speaker 1: You marketed it as this, you know, and I don't

1:11:34 Speaker 1: know what the legality would be here, but when you

1:11:37 Speaker 1: market something as real and then it's all of a

1:11:40 Speaker 1: sudden some creation of meditative state, I'm sorry, buddy, that

1:11:45 Speaker 1: that doesn't cut it. You cannot just use that it was,

1:11:49 Speaker 1: you know, and that's a kind of an issue with

1:11:51 Speaker 1: the current world right now is like anyone can say

1:11:54 Speaker 1: anything and then just be like, well I identify as

1:11:58 Speaker 1: I identified that it had and what we all have

1:12:01 Speaker 1: to just go okay, okay, okay, sorry, you know it

1:12:07 Speaker 1: must have been realty. No, you fucking took money from people.

1:12:12 Speaker 1: You you exploited their susceptibility, You exploited their mental their

1:12:21 Speaker 1: their their mental states. You put them in vulnerable positions

1:12:25 Speaker 1: only so that you could pull them out and say

1:12:28 Speaker 1: that you were the hero that doesn't work. That's no, no,

1:12:36 Speaker 1: and and you know, I think what you've done is

1:12:39 Speaker 1: you've shunned the light exactly where it needs to be,

1:12:44 Speaker 1: because I mean, we could talk about Corey good and

1:12:47 Speaker 1: David will Cox all day, but the fact that remains

1:12:51 Speaker 1: is they weren't the first to do it and they're

1:12:54 Speaker 1: not the last, oh for sure.

1:12:56 Speaker 4: I mean, this is why we we bookend the series

1:13:00 Speaker 4: is with the story of Bob Shawt and Georgie van

1:13:02 Speaker 4: Tassel exactly because this stuff and the ownership of contact

1:13:08 Speaker 4: narrative and commercialization of contact narratives has been an issue

1:13:12 Speaker 4: since the first contact narratives, like literally the first ones

1:13:17 Speaker 4: in the early fifties were subject to this same ip

1:13:22 Speaker 4: money grabbing, scrutiny and behaviors back and forth, whether there's

1:13:27 Speaker 4: bickering or oh this he's not channeling the true entity.

1:13:30 Speaker 4: Only I can do that. It's exactly the same to

1:13:34 Speaker 4: what Corey says in that deposition that anybody claiming to

1:13:39 Speaker 4: have contact with the anshawer making it up. It's the same.

1:13:44 Speaker 4: It's literally the same thing. And once I had that realization, though, went,

1:13:47 Speaker 4: I know how to start and end the film now,

1:13:49 Speaker 4: like I have a framework to be able to put

1:13:51 Speaker 4: it in for the for the audience that don't know

1:13:54 Speaker 4: too much about it, but can can can get the

1:13:58 Speaker 4: gist from that.

1:13:59 Speaker 1: Framing right thing right, and to have been into it

1:14:04 Speaker 1: to grasp what's.

1:14:06 Speaker 4: Being said right.

1:14:08 Speaker 1: And So with that being said, so the UFO community often,

1:14:13 Speaker 1: you know, at least especially lately, often relies on whistleblowers

1:14:19 Speaker 1: or let's say, in quote unquote insiders, yet their claims

1:14:25 Speaker 1: can be very very hard to verify. So Dark Alliance,

1:14:32 Speaker 1: you guys address it. But how how did you approach

1:14:35 Speaker 1: that challenge of distinguishing you know, credible sources from those

1:14:39 Speaker 1: who might be exploiting the community's trust.

1:14:42 Speaker 4: So the only thing I look for is is there

1:14:45 Speaker 4: any documentation to prove what they're saying or is that so,

1:14:52 Speaker 4: like in the case of William Tompkins, is the documentation

1:14:54 Speaker 4: that they're providing actually saying what they say it says?

1:14:58 Speaker 4: So he comes out. So we got a lot of

1:15:01 Speaker 4: behind the scenes gayer material from the studios which we

1:15:05 Speaker 4: put into the dock. And there's a lot of a

1:15:08 Speaker 4: lot of stuff with William Tompkins where he's holding up

1:15:10 Speaker 4: these sketches and blueprints of stuff that he did, and

1:15:17 Speaker 4: there's no way to prove whether that's real or not,

1:15:20 Speaker 4: which makes it ultimately worthless information. It doesn't pass falsifiability.

1:15:29 Speaker 1: And William William, Now for anyone who's not familiar with William,

1:15:33 Speaker 1: can you kind of describe who he is?

1:15:36 Speaker 4: So William Tompkins was a Navy kind of blueprint designer

1:15:43 Speaker 4: for battleships and submarines back in World War Two. Now

1:15:49 Speaker 4: he claims that he was working on designing the ships,

1:15:54 Speaker 4: so converting submarines into spacecraft that were then used in

1:16:00 Speaker 4: the Solar Warden era stuff. So the stuff that Gary

1:16:05 Speaker 4: McKinnon allegedly saw is are the craft that William Tompkins

1:16:09 Speaker 4: designed way back when, and obviously they've iterated over time,

1:16:13 Speaker 4: but these initial designs were apparently done by him. Now

1:16:16 Speaker 4: there's no way to prove any of that. He's also

1:16:19 Speaker 4: was around ninety years old, and he's also dead now,

1:16:24 Speaker 4: so you can't prove or disprove a single thing this

1:16:26 Speaker 4: guy said. He was quite clearly diminishing in his interviews

1:16:32 Speaker 4: that he did, and then especially after his death. The

1:16:35 Speaker 4: same thing happened with Pete Peterson after the death. When

1:16:38 Speaker 4: they can't refute anything that they ever said, or can't

1:16:41 Speaker 4: refew anything new that's being said about them, they get

1:16:44 Speaker 4: used as pawns, as literally just props in these stories

1:16:48 Speaker 4: like oh I sent it to Pete Peterson and he

1:16:51 Speaker 4: said this, when that never happened and he's dead and

1:16:53 Speaker 4: he can't ever deny it.

1:16:55 Speaker 1: And it becomes like it's like, um, yeah, yeah, like

1:17:00 Speaker 1: you said, I guess you kind of put it perfectly apologize.

1:17:04 Speaker 1: I guess.

1:17:04 Speaker 4: Three, there's an interesting one I looked into recently. So

1:17:09 Speaker 4: you know Charles Hall of the Tall Whites fame. Yes,

1:17:13 Speaker 4: So there are two separate requests eight years apart recently,

1:17:18 Speaker 4: so one in twenty fifteen, one in twenty twenty three,

1:17:20 Speaker 4: from the National Personal Records Center saying that Charles Hall

1:17:27 Speaker 4: did not serve. There are no records for him serving

1:17:32 Speaker 4: in the military. Now, I want to preface this by saying,

1:17:38 Speaker 4: in the early seventies, there was a fire at the

1:17:42 Speaker 4: records center for the Naval records where they had the

1:17:45 Speaker 4: paper records for every single person. So there is a

1:17:48 Speaker 4: chance that these records were just completely destroyed in this

1:17:51 Speaker 4: fire and never recovered. Because this guy does have some

1:17:54 Speaker 4: some photos and some stuff showing he was in the military,

1:17:58 Speaker 4: but people wanted to corroborate this by going to the

1:18:01 Speaker 4: one place where you can get military records to prove

1:18:05 Speaker 4: or disprove this stuff in stolen ballet cases, and they

1:18:08 Speaker 4: have said twice there's no record. Now, obviously I'm not

1:18:11 Speaker 4: saying that means that he's completely bunked, but this highlights

1:18:14 Speaker 4: the issue that you brought up, that it can be

1:18:16 Speaker 4: incredibly hard to prove or disprove these things, especially when

1:18:20 Speaker 4: it's just a story, right, which is looking back, I

1:18:25 Speaker 4: should have had that thought process of Cory. So like,

1:18:28 Speaker 4: for example, when I watched his deposition, I watched the

1:18:31 Speaker 4: deposition before it ever got released because I was the

1:18:33 Speaker 4: one that redacted all of the materials of business entities

1:18:38 Speaker 4: and names and stuff out of it. I spent Christmas

1:18:40 Speaker 4: week twenty twenty two. I literally spent all of that

1:18:43 Speaker 4: week over Christmas redacting and not sleeping and watching it

1:18:46 Speaker 4: and redacting, and then i'd do that in the day

1:18:49 Speaker 4: and nighttime we'd be doing kind of like a watch

1:18:52 Speaker 4: party on Steven's channel. So that whole week I didn't sleep.

1:18:56 Speaker 4: But it made me realize this stuff about falsifiability that

1:19:00 Speaker 4: he because he's sitting there saying none of this stuff

1:19:03 Speaker 4: was true. And I realized that even before the deposition,

1:19:08 Speaker 4: there was no way to prove what was true and

1:19:10 Speaker 4: what wasn't true. It was ultimately useless information because I

1:19:13 Speaker 4: can't I can't test it. There's no way to stress

1:19:16 Speaker 4: test these stories now because they generally fall apart under

1:19:20 Speaker 4: the tiniest bit of scrutiny. So what happens Instead of

1:19:23 Speaker 4: just going, oh, you got me, they go, you're a

1:19:26 Speaker 4: part of the dark Alliance, You're in a pharise actor.

1:19:28 Speaker 4: You're out to destroy me by simply applying basic logic

1:19:33 Speaker 4: to my story. How dare you? You're going to be

1:19:34 Speaker 4: attacked now? Like that's that's kind of the reaction, and

1:19:38 Speaker 4: then the people that follow him that are looking for

1:19:40 Speaker 4: these answers in their lives, they react accordingly. Because so

1:19:45 Speaker 4: the dark Alights became part of the Cory Good narrative.

1:19:48 Speaker 4: David Wilcock is doing that right now, right with Stephen Cambien,

1:19:53 Speaker 4: where Stephen Cambien has become part of David's larger mythology

1:19:58 Speaker 4: that he talks about. He's accusing Stephen of being a

1:20:02 Speaker 4: Satanic child abuser, that's stealing money from his bank account.

1:20:06 Speaker 4: None of this is true, like nothing, none of that happened,

1:20:10 Speaker 4: but it's it's the only way they know how to

1:20:12 Speaker 4: respond to critical thought.

1:20:15 Speaker 1: And with Stephen specifically, you know, because I really like

1:20:20 Speaker 1: this this angle, not not that I like what's happening,

1:20:22 Speaker 1: but you're you're it's a it's kind of a perfect

1:20:28 Speaker 1: analogy to the the, the then and the now, if

1:20:33 Speaker 1: you will, right because it baffles me. I was actually

1:20:36 Speaker 1: just telling my girlfriend, I was like, because I was

1:20:38 Speaker 1: showing her who David Wilcox was, and YadA YadA, and

1:20:41 Speaker 1: I go, No, millions of people still watch him, like

1:20:46 Speaker 1: it's crazy to me.

1:20:47 Speaker 4: He gets tens of tens of thousands of live viewers

1:20:51 Speaker 4: per week.

1:20:53 Speaker 1: Real remember, I don't know if you saw it. You

1:20:55 Speaker 1: definitely saw it because I was looking for it last

1:20:57 Speaker 1: night because I want to play it. But there was

1:21:00 Speaker 1: this moment in David and I know I'm veering off here,

1:21:04 Speaker 1: but it was the David Wilcock stream, and there's two

1:21:07 Speaker 1: of them. There was one where he's like in this

1:21:09 Speaker 1: weird suit and he's smoking a fake cigarette and rambling

1:21:15 Speaker 1: about literally nothing about like trans people, and.

1:21:21 Speaker 4: I remember that. I remember that stream.

1:21:24 Speaker 1: Then there's another one where him and his wife are

1:21:28 Speaker 1: doing some like.

1:21:29 Speaker 4: I don't know, oh is this the say some ship clip?

1:21:32 Speaker 1: Say some ship and he and the mic picks it

1:21:35 Speaker 1: up and you're just like, kiddy, he.

1:21:40 Speaker 4: Just he just for me, like, I'll send you that

1:21:44 Speaker 4: clip for you to put up. It'll be ide. I

1:21:47 Speaker 4: made a funny meme version of it now. So but

1:21:52 Speaker 4: if you look at if you look at his face,

1:21:55 Speaker 4: so he puts his arm around Elizabeth and Elizabeth is like,

1:21:58 Speaker 4: oh ship, uh huh, and then he looks so repulsed

1:22:02 Speaker 4: to be touching another human being in that moment that

1:22:05 Speaker 4: it's like, what's wrong with you, man? Like that's your wife?

1:22:10 Speaker 1: Crap, that is your wife, and like not not to

1:22:14 Speaker 1: not to even say this, but like she's a very

1:22:16 Speaker 1: good looking woman too, which is super I mean for David,

1:22:19 Speaker 1: is kind of surprising, you know, I say good looking,

1:22:24 Speaker 1: you know, like I mean, she's not.

1:22:27 Speaker 4: Okay. I understand that she's an attractive new age lady.

1:22:30 Speaker 4: It's okay.

1:22:31 Speaker 1: She just might be crazy. Who knows.

1:22:34 Speaker 4: Oh, she's definitely crazy, like she's from Sedanna. Of course

1:22:37 Speaker 4: she's crazy. But there's a uh, there's a lot about

1:22:44 Speaker 4: the relationship I could get into, but I probably shouldn't.

1:22:49 Speaker 1: That's this is why I fucking you know, like him

1:22:53 Speaker 1: and I the way we approach UFO stuff. It's like

1:22:57 Speaker 1: we have the same skeptical mindset. It's just we do

1:23:02 Speaker 1: things differently, and I think sometimes he doesn't really understand

1:23:06 Speaker 1: what I do. It's like, listen, I give I will

1:23:09 Speaker 1: have anyone on the podcast. Not anyone, but you know

1:23:12 Speaker 1: what I mean, like anyone who's like big, you know,

1:23:16 Speaker 1: or or not even big. But I will give pretty

1:23:19 Speaker 1: much anyone the benefit of the doubt to come here

1:23:22 Speaker 1: and tell their story. I walk through it with them.

1:23:25 Speaker 1: I ask open questions, leading questions, and then I let

1:23:31 Speaker 1: the audience kind of dis deduce. I never tell them

1:23:34 Speaker 1: my side what I think. When I know what, I

1:23:38 Speaker 1: let them pretty much pretty much. I give them the equation,

1:23:41 Speaker 1: and then I let you know because I can say

1:23:45 Speaker 1: it's raining outside, but until you go out and look

1:23:48 Speaker 1: at outside for yourself then directly apprehend that, oh, yes

1:23:52 Speaker 1: it is raining, you won't know, like that's the moment

1:23:56 Speaker 1: when you know. So I'm giving you the equation. It's

1:23:59 Speaker 1: your job to look out the window and directly apprehend,

1:24:03 Speaker 1: you know, whether it's bullshit, you know, whether you believe

1:24:06 Speaker 1: it or not. You know, like I've had Richard dodieon,

1:24:09 Speaker 1: I've had Mick West on. I've had Jason Sands on.

1:24:12 Speaker 1: I've had other whistleblowers on, Michael Herrera, uh uh. You know,

1:24:18 Speaker 1: I've had a lot of people, but I've also had

1:24:20 Speaker 1: members of Congress on. I've had you know, a VI

1:24:23 Speaker 1: Lobe was just on this show. So you know, there's

1:24:26 Speaker 1: a difference. And that's what I always try to try

1:24:28 Speaker 1: to tell Steven is you know, because he's trying to

1:24:31 Speaker 1: have interview people and I'm like, well, you got to

1:24:35 Speaker 1: understand people aren't going to want to be interviewed by

1:24:38 Speaker 1: by like your your channel is just a little different.

1:24:42 Speaker 1: You know, you he's mad that people won't go on

1:24:46 Speaker 1: and be interviewed by him, but it's like they know

1:24:49 Speaker 1: that he's going to be starting from that skeptical star

1:24:52 Speaker 1: skeptical point. What you have to do is remove yourself.

1:24:57 Speaker 4: Why I would I would challenge that and say, I

1:25:00 Speaker 4: think I think it's it's more it's a case of

1:25:04 Speaker 4: like having to Oh god, thought the thoughts just going

1:25:08 Speaker 4: from my head.

1:25:08 Speaker 1: Oh no, So here's a good example. He calls James

1:25:14 Speaker 1: Fox a grifter. Now I did have a problem with

1:25:19 Speaker 1: that because I think James is a really, really talented filmmaker.

1:25:25 Speaker 1: I think he really does. And and to be a grifter,

1:25:30 Speaker 1: I mean, I think we use that word a lot

1:25:32 Speaker 1: in the community, and I think it gets thrown around

1:25:36 Speaker 1: far too much because anyone who makes a dollar off

1:25:41 Speaker 1: the UFO world, I mean, people label them a grifter.

1:25:46 Speaker 4: I think it comes I think it comes down to intent.

1:25:48 Speaker 1: Yes, again, this is not a light against Steve and

1:25:51 Speaker 1: I actually really I I've I love I don't I

1:25:54 Speaker 1: don't love him. That'd be weird. I look back to

1:25:58 Speaker 1: what you do and I love the content, right, and

1:26:02 Speaker 1: there's a place for that. I think there's balance, right.

1:26:06 Speaker 4: I remember what I was gonna say. So, it's important

1:26:09 Speaker 4: that you're talking about balance. It's important whilst there's balance,

1:26:12 Speaker 4: it's also important to be able to have these these hard,

1:26:16 Speaker 4: honest conversations. And if you if you're coming out and

1:26:18 Speaker 4: saying coming out with a narrative or coming out with

1:26:22 Speaker 4: some kind of euthological product, then you should be able

1:26:28 Speaker 4: to have those conversations. If you're gonna, if you're gonna

1:26:31 Speaker 4: avoid the harder conversations for the easy sell, then then

1:26:36 Speaker 4: you shouldn't be selling something right, especially not to this community,

1:26:40 Speaker 4: because it's those harder conversations that will actually find truth

1:26:44 Speaker 4: or some some semblance of it in context with the

1:26:48 Speaker 4: thing being spoken about.

1:26:49 Speaker 1: Right right and then and and the thing that I

1:26:52 Speaker 1: was going to bring about of James is he's one

1:26:57 Speaker 1: of the people that got fucked over with money.

1:27:00 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, that the ten ninety one collapse. His Yeah,

1:27:04 Speaker 4: his film's got and it wasn't just him. Was that

1:27:07 Speaker 4: was Corey Good, Stephen Greer.

1:27:08 Speaker 1: Contact not moment of contact phenomena. He didn't take a

1:27:13 Speaker 1: single penny off of that. And actually people's people try

1:27:17 Speaker 1: to say that the director is different, like it James

1:27:20 Speaker 1: Hawks didn't direct it, and it had to be corrected.

1:27:23 Speaker 1: It's like, no, he did direct it. But but okay,

1:27:26 Speaker 1: that's a subset. So but my point is, so this again,

1:27:32 Speaker 1: it didn't start with Corey and David, but it's surely

1:27:36 Speaker 1: not ending there either.

1:27:38 Speaker 4: Oh, definitely not. It's it's continued. I can't say too

1:27:42 Speaker 4: much about other people in the SSPP world, but there's

1:27:48 Speaker 4: definitely like the network continues and like the saga continues

1:27:55 Speaker 4: in just other forms and looking at looking at how

1:28:00 Speaker 4: so for example, how they walked away from Corey in

1:28:03 Speaker 4: twenty twenty when the lawsuits dropped. It was a very

1:28:07 Speaker 4: interesting dynamic in the way that they they separated themselves

1:28:14 Speaker 4: and their communities. It's kind of like mitosis where or actually,

1:28:20 Speaker 4: here's a good analogy for any science nerds out there.

1:28:23 Speaker 4: When you have a thunderstorm that splits on the left

1:28:26 Speaker 4: split and a right split, often one of those splits

1:28:29 Speaker 4: will die and the other one will become the dominant circulation.

1:28:34 Speaker 4: That's kind of what we've seen here, where there's a split.

1:28:37 Speaker 4: Corey and his world goes off and just withers out

1:28:39 Speaker 4: in the planes, while the other one, the rest of

1:28:43 Speaker 4: the people, they just continue to grow and continue to

1:28:46 Speaker 4: get more success and get shows on guire and get

1:28:49 Speaker 4: conferences and fill that void that the previous storm in

1:28:55 Speaker 4: this analogy had occupied. So it's kind of just information theory.

1:28:59 Speaker 4: At the end of the day. It's information and people

1:29:01 Speaker 4: will fill spaces. Life finds a way. That's that's my

1:29:05 Speaker 4: philosophy on it. There's always going to be crazy stories.

1:29:07 Speaker 4: There's always going to be people coming out. We've always

1:29:09 Speaker 4: had storytellers, Like we had snake oil salesmen in the

1:29:12 Speaker 4: eighteen hundreds going around wild West towns. Go and I've

1:29:15 Speaker 4: got some snake oil. I got this from a mystic

1:29:18 Speaker 4: on a mountain, Kansas, Ego, you know.

1:29:21 Speaker 1: And it's exactly.

1:29:23 Speaker 4: It's the same thing. And to a certain extent, it

1:29:26 Speaker 4: is a human thing where we're always going to have storytellers.

1:29:29 Speaker 4: But we love to hear stories, we love to experience stories.

1:29:33 Speaker 4: So we're starved. We're starved for stories, like what's that

1:29:38 Speaker 4: movie that recently came out, Sinners, great story. Everyone's ranting

1:29:42 Speaker 4: and raving about it. But the only reason they're ranting

1:29:44 Speaker 4: and raving about it is because we're so starved for

1:29:46 Speaker 4: a good story that when one comes along, it becomes

1:29:49 Speaker 4: a world phenomenon.

1:29:50 Speaker 1: Now yep.

1:29:52 Speaker 4: So it's these people they play, they play into this

1:29:55 Speaker 4: dynamic of we're looking for a story, something that resonates

1:29:59 Speaker 4: with us. So for example, with me, I was really ill.

1:30:02 Speaker 4: I started hearing about David Wilcock and his research that

1:30:06 Speaker 4: resonated with what I was going through, so I became invested.

1:30:09 Speaker 4: Then I found Corey Good and his experiences mirrored my

1:30:13 Speaker 4: psychedelic experiences. So I became invested because I resonated with it.

1:30:17 Speaker 4: And I try not to use those kind of catual

1:30:19 Speaker 4: terms like the sermon or resonate, but that's the best

1:30:23 Speaker 4: way to describe it because it's it's not like my

1:30:26 Speaker 4: experience completely is a one to one match. It just

1:30:29 Speaker 4: it's on the right wavelength where I feel like it matches,

1:30:33 Speaker 4: and that's that resonance without it being a one to one.

1:30:39 Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, I lost my well, no, no, with that

1:30:43 Speaker 1: being said, I mean, look, we have people like doctor

1:30:46 Speaker 1: Steven Greer, and he's been accused of promoting you know,

1:30:50 Speaker 1: kind of like unverified claims like you know, the CE

1:30:53 Speaker 1: five protocols, which is very disputed because yeah, you know,

1:30:57 Speaker 1: obviously now with groups like Skywatcher and what they're doing,

1:31:02 Speaker 1: like with the un quote unquote dog whistle and and psionics.

1:31:07 Speaker 1: I mean it's really big right now in the community.

1:31:10 Speaker 5: Uh.

1:31:10 Speaker 1: Well, while people like Elizondo have faced scrutiny over his role,

1:31:15 Speaker 1: you know, in a tip, how does the movie and

1:31:18 Speaker 1: Dark Alliance navigate, uh these controversies without alienating the UFO community.

1:31:25 Speaker 4: Uh, trying to just be respectful and like just be

1:31:28 Speaker 4: in the most polite possible way to point out these

1:31:33 Speaker 4: inconsistencies or point out the behaviors because a big part

1:31:37 Speaker 4: of I think a big part of the first Dark

1:31:40 Speaker 4: Alliance is it's about Cory's behavior dynamics within Guia and

1:31:48 Speaker 4: how he dealt with business people and how he dealt

1:31:50 Speaker 4: with the fans, so to speak. And I feel like

1:31:54 Speaker 4: we get a good spread through Jay Leon and then Jordan.

1:31:57 Speaker 4: We go through each phase of that where it's uh

1:32:00 Speaker 4: the early genesis and gyre and how he kind of

1:32:03 Speaker 4: gained power, then how he used that power to try

1:32:08 Speaker 4: and make inroads in Hollywood and make movies, and then

1:32:10 Speaker 4: how he some fans got to come in and make

1:32:13 Speaker 4: the films. Other people just were in group chats and

1:32:16 Speaker 4: were directed. So it's it's just about displaying it in

1:32:20 Speaker 4: a contextual way. That's respectful that people can connect with.

1:32:26 Speaker 4: And I think that's why we framed it with the

1:32:28 Speaker 4: story of fantastical and Bob Short is to say to

1:32:31 Speaker 4: the audience, what you're about to hear is not new

1:32:34 Speaker 4: or shocking. I mean, it is new and shocking, but

1:32:37 Speaker 4: it's it's an age old story that has been repeating

1:32:40 Speaker 4: for the past seventy five years at least. And that's

1:32:44 Speaker 4: just within public record of the UFO and movement. We

1:32:47 Speaker 4: know about people like that all the way back to

1:32:50 Speaker 4: you know, Cavement. There's been mystics and charmans. So it's

1:32:55 Speaker 4: it honestly, it's just about respect.

1:32:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys, did I think you guys balance it

1:33:02 Speaker 1: really well, you know, not like you're not speaking down

1:33:07 Speaker 1: You're almost like it's it's almost like it's it's there's

1:33:15 Speaker 1: people crying for or screaming out in pain, and you

1:33:19 Speaker 1: guys are like, guys, you know, we write here's here.

1:33:24 Speaker 1: It is like, let's let's let's walk through it together. Right,

1:33:28 Speaker 1: Let's walk through and let's just let's actually put this

1:33:33 Speaker 1: in a chronological order and let's see let's put it

1:33:36 Speaker 1: all out there and see if it makes sense and

1:33:38 Speaker 1: it and it and it does it does it doesn't.

1:33:41 Speaker 1: I mean, it does its job in showing that it

1:33:45 Speaker 1: does not hold up under any You.

1:33:49 Speaker 4: Just reminded me of a really good analogy and that

1:33:52 Speaker 4: I was thinking of when I was writing it and

1:33:55 Speaker 4: in my approach. So have you ever seen the show

1:33:58 Speaker 4: The West Wing? Yeah, so you know the story about

1:34:02 Speaker 4: the guy falls down the hole.

1:34:04 Speaker 1: No, you might have to.

1:34:05 Speaker 4: So, so guy falls down a hole and he's shouting, please,

1:34:10 Speaker 4: someone help me out, help me out, and people keep

1:34:13 Speaker 4: coming up and walking by and coming up and walking

1:34:15 Speaker 4: by and not helping him, and all of a sudden

1:34:18 Speaker 4: he sees his friend. He's like, hey, Joe, can you

1:34:20 Speaker 4: help me out? I'm stuck in this hole? And his

1:34:23 Speaker 4: friend Joe just jumps in the hole and he's like,

1:34:25 Speaker 4: what are you doing with it?

1:34:25 Speaker 1: Now?

1:34:26 Speaker 4: We're both in the hole, and he is, yeah, but

1:34:28 Speaker 4: I've been down here before and I know the way

1:34:29 Speaker 4: out right. And that was my approach, was like, I've

1:34:35 Speaker 4: been here before, I've been through this, So that's my lens.

1:34:39 Speaker 4: That's that's how I approach it is. I'm it's almost

1:34:42 Speaker 4: like it's a lecture in the It's I'm trying to

1:34:46 Speaker 4: explain it as a teacher would in a respectful way too,

1:34:52 Speaker 4: in an empathetic way as well, because this isn't some

1:34:55 Speaker 4: dry thing. I have a personal history with this thing, right,

1:34:59 Speaker 4: So out of all the people in the world that

1:35:02 Speaker 4: could probably have taught people about this, I'm the only one.

1:35:05 Speaker 1: With that background.

1:35:07 Speaker 4: Right out of all the critics too, Like I'm the

1:35:09 Speaker 4: only one who was part of it and moved and

1:35:12 Speaker 4: had a kid and had that whole flow of events,

1:35:14 Speaker 4: I'm the only one. It's it does feel quite synchronous.

1:35:19 Speaker 1: You have, Like, yeah, I was gonna say, you have

1:35:22 Speaker 1: this really unique vantage point that like, like you said,

1:35:28 Speaker 1: it's like, hey, guys, I'm trying to give you a shortcut.

1:35:31 Speaker 1: Like I was there, I went through it. This is

1:35:34 Speaker 1: my experience, and you don't have to go.

1:35:36 Speaker 4: Through it, right, And that's the respectful way about it

1:35:41 Speaker 4: is because if you if, especially with these kinds of

1:35:44 Speaker 4: people that believe this stuff, so to say, while I

1:35:47 Speaker 4: was in the throes of believing it, if if I'd

1:35:50 Speaker 4: have come up to myself, or if I had watched

1:35:52 Speaker 4: Dark Alliance, I would have had that eager reaction of

1:35:56 Speaker 4: I need to protect this thing that is giving me

1:35:58 Speaker 4: sustenance in my intellectual wants and in my soul, right,

1:36:05 Speaker 4: and you want to protect that because we're hardwired as

1:36:08 Speaker 4: humans to seek out dopamine, and when we find a

1:36:10 Speaker 4: source of dopamine, we stick to it. That's why people

1:36:12 Speaker 4: get addicted to video games, to drugs, to television, what

1:36:16 Speaker 4: you name it. People get addicted to things not because

1:36:18 Speaker 4: of the often because of the thing that they're actually

1:36:21 Speaker 4: addicted to, but because of the dopamine loop they get

1:36:23 Speaker 4: stuck in. For example, my kid right loves Minecraft, absolutely

1:36:30 Speaker 4: loves Minecraft, and we had to like wean her off

1:36:32 Speaker 4: of it because of the dopamine loop. And we're, you know,

1:36:34 Speaker 4: we're trying to be really responsible with it. And it

1:36:37 Speaker 4: was a challenge and it's it got me thinking actually

1:36:40 Speaker 4: at the time, like wow, if it's this challenging with

1:36:44 Speaker 4: a six year older Minecraft, like how challenging is it

1:36:47 Speaker 4: when you get full fledged like cult member, like a

1:36:49 Speaker 4: scientologist or something like, it's no wonder they go so

1:36:53 Speaker 4: virulently angry because the deeper the loop, the deeper the

1:36:59 Speaker 4: talents are into this, like.

1:37:00 Speaker 1: You taking away their life or yeah, or you're at

1:37:04 Speaker 1: least shattering the current reality, right, and and it's kind

1:37:10 Speaker 1: of a very good thing or very you know, and

1:37:13 Speaker 1: and I don't I don't mean to When I say this,

1:37:17 Speaker 1: I mean it with the most endearing, the most endearing

1:37:22 Speaker 1: possible way. Is it. Your six year old is almost

1:37:28 Speaker 1: an addict in that sense.

1:37:30 Speaker 4: Right, And that that was what we were gutting against

1:37:33 Speaker 4: because we're very very conscious of that, to the point

1:37:37 Speaker 4: where we went, Okay, that's enough, right, And then there

1:37:41 Speaker 4: was a little bit of a fight about like, oh, no,

1:37:43 Speaker 4: I want to play more, you know, but you know,

1:37:47 Speaker 4: it's like that. I think honestly, becoming a parent also

1:37:51 Speaker 4: affected my approach to this because I'm I'm almost approaching

1:37:55 Speaker 4: this like a parent explaining to a child why what

1:37:58 Speaker 4: they're doing isn't working, isn't right, and how to stop

1:38:02 Speaker 4: and be better. You know, between oh I've been down

1:38:08 Speaker 4: here before and I know the way out, and also

1:38:09 Speaker 4: I love you, please be better.

1:38:11 Speaker 1: Right, right, And when you're in it, you're like you

1:38:15 Speaker 1: cannot see and and you know, for anyone who's who

1:38:18 Speaker 1: has addiction issues, you know this your life. You know,

1:38:22 Speaker 1: it eventually becomes all about the next one, the next hit, right,

1:38:28 Speaker 1: the next phil and and and you can look at

1:38:31 Speaker 1: it in the same sense. I mean, So, there was

1:38:34 Speaker 1: a study done and I can't remember what, like what

1:38:39 Speaker 1: institute it was under, but they basically they they put

1:38:43 Speaker 1: rats in a cage and they there was one water

1:38:48 Speaker 1: The one water source was like regular water, and then

1:38:52 Speaker 1: the other there was another water source that had either

1:38:55 Speaker 1: cocaine or like methanmphetamines, heroin in it, and the rats

1:39:00 Speaker 1: under like the fluorescent lights in the lab setting, they

1:39:04 Speaker 1: would they would stop eating, they would stop grooming themselves.

1:39:10 Speaker 1: I mean, they would stop having sex with each other, reproducing,

1:39:14 Speaker 1: and all they could concentrate was on no more in

1:39:19 Speaker 1: the water that was normal. They would be they would

1:39:21 Speaker 1: just sit there and they would constantly be hitting the coke.

1:39:26 Speaker 1: But then so it gets better, so they you know,

1:39:30 Speaker 1: they were constantly they neglected themselves for the dopamine hit

1:39:35 Speaker 1: and you know, essentially just crumbled until they died, you know,

1:39:41 Speaker 1: if something like cardiac arrest or whatever, you know, drug

1:39:44 Speaker 1: induced overdose whatever. And another researcher came in and said,

1:39:50 Speaker 1: wait a second, I mean, you have rats in a lab,

1:39:54 Speaker 1: in a cage with nothing else to do. Their only

1:39:58 Speaker 1: source of pleasure in that water thing. And they figured

1:40:02 Speaker 1: it out they can get dopamine by just you know,

1:40:05 Speaker 1: going this water. There's nothing else for them to do

1:40:07 Speaker 1: in this cage. You know, obviously they could screw the

1:40:09 Speaker 1: each other, but I mean and then eat and stuff.

1:40:12 Speaker 1: But it's it's all very like lab So they put

1:40:15 Speaker 1: those same rats, not the same rats, but rats in

1:40:19 Speaker 1: a like basically like a mimicking the real world. It

1:40:24 Speaker 1: was like, you know, all these puzzles for them, and

1:40:27 Speaker 1: you know, trees and or at least shrubbery and like

1:40:32 Speaker 1: more distraction, I guess, if you will, more real life conditions.

1:40:36 Speaker 1: Put those same water sets never touched the cocaine.

1:40:40 Speaker 4: Right, the real water source, and then well it's not

1:40:45 Speaker 4: because the landscape is texted with smaller dopamine hits, so

1:40:50 Speaker 4: they never feel the need or craving for the for

1:40:54 Speaker 4: you know, the big hit that a cocaine infused water

1:40:57 Speaker 4: might give. That they're just focusing, oh this thing around.

1:41:02 Speaker 1: There's more to.

1:41:05 Speaker 4: Live for, right, Well, it's more variety and choice, and yeah, right,

1:41:11 Speaker 4: I think I think you're right. Ex Actually, everything you've

1:41:13 Speaker 4: just said applies to what you were saying about Twitter

1:41:16 Speaker 4: spaces and the people that are terminally online and and

1:41:20 Speaker 4: don't have any kind of prospects outside of this uh

1:41:24 Speaker 4: self self propelling narrative that they're part.

1:41:27 Speaker 1: Of the chamber.

1:41:28 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so.

1:41:32 Speaker 1: You know what I kind of want to So, what

1:41:34 Speaker 1: has been the reaction from the community, you know, UFO community,

1:41:39 Speaker 1: the paranormal community. I kind of use them like as

1:41:42 Speaker 1: as interchangeable, the just the community. What's been the reaction

1:41:47 Speaker 1: to Dark Alliance? Obviously we talked a little bit about Darcy,

1:41:50 Speaker 1: but what have you been observing and what do you

1:41:55 Speaker 1: hope the documentary will influence with people's approach to evaluating

1:41:59 Speaker 1: and narratives.

1:42:02 Speaker 4: So that the state that from the top. So the

1:42:05 Speaker 4: reaction from the community, I actually missed a lot of

1:42:09 Speaker 4: the initial reaction because I went offline because there was

1:42:13 Speaker 4: a lot of brigading and harassment in late last year.

1:42:17 Speaker 4: So you know what, I don't need. I don't need

1:42:20 Speaker 4: the social media stuff Like I'm happy with a book

1:42:23 Speaker 4: or doing whatever, so you know, I can easily go

1:42:25 Speaker 4: offline and stay off line.

1:42:26 Speaker 1: Same.

1:42:28 Speaker 4: So it wasn't until a couple of months ago that

1:42:31 Speaker 4: I really started kind of going, oh, I wonder how

1:42:34 Speaker 4: I know that sounds kind of passive, like I just

1:42:36 Speaker 4: worked so long on a thing and then I release

1:42:38 Speaker 4: it and I don't even pay attention. But it was

1:42:41 Speaker 4: more it was more for my own well being because

1:42:45 Speaker 4: the the harassment of stuff does get this doesn't really

1:42:50 Speaker 4: get to me, but like I just can't be bothered

1:42:51 Speaker 4: to deal with it anymore. So, you know, like, I

1:42:55 Speaker 4: know what the film is. I know that the people

1:42:57 Speaker 4: that I know are gonna like it, and that's that

1:42:59 Speaker 4: kind of you know. But since then, the thing that

1:43:02 Speaker 4: I've heard the most is make more and I'm so

1:43:07 Speaker 4: glad you're talking about this.

1:43:09 Speaker 1: Wow.

1:43:09 Speaker 4: And most and most of the people that are saying

1:43:11 Speaker 4: I'm so glad you're talking about this are older because

1:43:15 Speaker 4: I think they the way that Corey started targeting the

1:43:18 Speaker 4: youths and through Jordan Safo, which is an aspect that

1:43:22 Speaker 4: I actually missed earlier, is they they wanted him on

1:43:25 Speaker 4: that team because he appealed to the younger audience because

1:43:30 Speaker 4: he was That's why he appealed to me because he

1:43:32 Speaker 4: was my age and I was like, oh my god,

1:43:34 Speaker 4: someone my age is talking about this, So the right

1:43:38 Speaker 4: they they wanted to appeal to the younger audience because

1:43:41 Speaker 4: I think the older audience was starting to cotton on

1:43:43 Speaker 4: that this stuff is too fantastical. So that the big

1:43:49 Speaker 4: thing that I've come across is people thanking me or

1:43:52 Speaker 4: me and Darcy for doing this work and talking about

1:43:56 Speaker 4: something that they knew was wrong. They could suss out

1:43:59 Speaker 4: that was wrong. They had no voice, So, you know,

1:44:03 Speaker 4: for there to be a production that's being shown at conferences,

1:44:07 Speaker 4: like I saw a video from a couple of weeks

1:44:08 Speaker 4: ago of Dark Alliance being shown at a conference like

1:44:10 Speaker 4: one hundred people, and I was like, oh my god,

1:44:13 Speaker 4: Like that's that's a whole crowd of people watching something

1:44:16 Speaker 4: that I helped make. And they're all old people. They're

1:44:19 Speaker 4: all like elderly old people. And that mixed with the

1:44:23 Speaker 4: reaction from predominantly older people saying thank you so much

1:44:26 Speaker 4: for talking about this, it definitely it makes me feel

1:44:30 Speaker 4: like we cut through the noise to the demographic that

1:44:33 Speaker 4: we wanted to hit with this, which was the type

1:44:37 Speaker 4: of people that would have fallen for this stuff, right

1:44:41 Speaker 4: and not just like not everyday normies. Like normal people

1:44:44 Speaker 4: can engage with the documentary and watch it. But for

1:44:48 Speaker 4: someone who say, followed this stuff for five years but

1:44:51 Speaker 4: kind of dropped off, has a whole different perceptual meaning

1:44:55 Speaker 4: to them because they have they have their own memories

1:44:59 Speaker 4: and they have their own speriences to do with this stuff.

1:45:01 Speaker 4: So they have a different perspective. So a big thing

1:45:04 Speaker 4: I've heard from a few people is that they're really

1:45:08 Speaker 4: glad that we're able to get those different types of

1:45:11 Speaker 4: perspectives from like from the production standpoint to the business

1:45:14 Speaker 4: side to the more social dynamic the cult east side,

1:45:18 Speaker 4: right right right.

1:45:20 Speaker 1: And you know, again, I don't mean to take it

1:45:24 Speaker 1: in another direction here, but you know, uh with Corey

1:45:27 Speaker 1: Good and David Wilcock specifically and what they did, I

1:45:32 Speaker 1: you know, one of an Emery Smith. And I think

1:45:37 Speaker 1: one person that we forget to kind of include is

1:45:41 Speaker 1: Michael Salah. I agree, and I think he is also

1:45:47 Speaker 1: like really high up on that list of people to blame.

1:45:50 Speaker 4: So I think Michael Salla is he So he occupies

1:45:55 Speaker 4: a really interesting space. And I have to be careful

1:45:58 Speaker 4: how much I say here. He occupies an interesting space

1:46:01 Speaker 4: because he's not a speaker per se. He's not a

1:46:05 Speaker 4: contact hee, he's not an individual that's saying I met Aliens.

1:46:10 Speaker 4: He's a disseminator. He's a story collector who republishes other

1:46:15 Speaker 4: people's testimony and is kind of treated like the topics

1:46:22 Speaker 4: in house historian yep. Because because of his background American

1:46:29 Speaker 4: University and stuff. It gives him some Yeah, it gives

1:46:33 Speaker 4: him like legitimacy in that space.

1:46:38 Speaker 1: In a hugely unlegitimate world.

1:46:41 Speaker 4: But having watched enough of him, I can tell that

1:46:45 Speaker 4: there is a certain level of I'm just I'm just

1:46:50 Speaker 4: letting this conversation happen. I'm just letting you know he's

1:46:54 Speaker 4: not actually one believing this stuff. He's just there as

1:47:00 Speaker 4: part of the larger meta narrative. And you're seeing how

1:47:04 Speaker 4: that plays.

1:47:05 Speaker 1: Out, right, right, and that that's yeah. And I just

1:47:08 Speaker 1: wanted to bring him up because we hadn't. I know,

1:47:11 Speaker 1: you'd mentioned his name in the panel, but I kind

1:47:14 Speaker 1: of forgot to say, like, he is a kind of

1:47:16 Speaker 1: a He's someone that I think is also like largely

1:47:22 Speaker 1: because of that, because of his credibility when he perpetuated

1:47:28 Speaker 1: these narratives. And that's that's the thing with the UFO

1:47:30 Speaker 1: community is they'll take they'll take certain things.

1:47:36 Speaker 5: Right.

1:47:36 Speaker 1: So the New York Times article, all of a sudden,

1:47:39 Speaker 1: that's giving credence to a secret space program, right because

1:47:43 Speaker 1: because now, look, we've been telling you, the government's lied

1:47:48 Speaker 1: to you. We've been telling you there were secret programs.

1:47:51 Speaker 1: Even though this isn't the program that we're talking about

1:47:55 Speaker 1: it is a secret UFO legacy program, and it is

1:47:58 Speaker 1: published in the New York Time that gives credence to

1:48:02 Speaker 1: the idea alone that there are secret programs. Now all

1:48:06 Speaker 1: of a sudden, people like that are using it to

1:48:09 Speaker 1: prop up these really fantastical narratives and using that as

1:48:15 Speaker 1: a quote unquote source. It becomes real dicey.

1:48:20 Speaker 4: It does, And especially when you mention some of the

1:48:23 Speaker 4: some of the people that he comes out with, like

1:48:25 Speaker 4: Randy Kramer or j JP I like these these they're

1:48:28 Speaker 4: not alien contacts, they're super soldiers or they were military

1:48:33 Speaker 4: assets used in these interplanetary conflicts. Again it's it's there's

1:48:38 Speaker 4: no way to prove these things. So it does get

1:48:43 Speaker 4: very very dicey with how how to deal with it.

1:48:48 Speaker 1: And what I what I think a problem with the

1:48:50 Speaker 1: UFO community is is and this goes to move on

1:48:55 Speaker 1: right a big you know. Uh So, if if the

1:49:00 Speaker 1: community was to admit that's something, if it's almost like

1:49:06 Speaker 1: they can't be and we're dealing with like the most complex,

1:49:10 Speaker 1: deep philosophical questions like what happens after we die? Are

1:49:15 Speaker 1: we alone in the universe? These are unanswered questions of

1:49:19 Speaker 1: the umphed magnitude. Right, these are no small feat And

1:49:24 Speaker 1: it's like we're afraid to be wrong in a in

1:49:27 Speaker 1: a in a topic set where we should be open

1:49:30 Speaker 1: to being wrong. We should be humble to being wrong

1:49:33 Speaker 1: and going, ah that you know I was wrong? You

1:49:38 Speaker 1: know this better information. But no, that's not how we

1:49:41 Speaker 1: play the play the game in the UFO world because

1:49:44 Speaker 1: if we admit we're wrong here, the whole foundation must

1:49:47 Speaker 1: come cracking down and it's a huge problem. And you know,

1:49:54 Speaker 1: I think that was part. So I guess that that

1:49:57 Speaker 1: brings me to this is what role do you think

1:50:00 Speaker 1: that the media, including documentaries like yours, plays in either

1:50:06 Speaker 1: reinforcing or challenging narratives that dominate the UFO community.

1:50:12 Speaker 4: So I was when you asked this a few minutes ago,

1:50:15 Speaker 4: I had a good answer to that come into my head.

1:50:18 Speaker 4: So what you asked, what do I what would I

1:50:20 Speaker 4: want the documentary to affect? Which is is kind of

1:50:26 Speaker 4: kind of the same thing, like what do I think

1:50:28 Speaker 4: movie the movies like this in general due to the culture.

1:50:32 Speaker 4: I think generally they help because when someone comes into

1:50:37 Speaker 4: a crazy house and starts making sense, it's gonna be

1:50:40 Speaker 4: hard at first. That's why I like, say, Darcy got

1:50:42 Speaker 4: a lot of heat when it's released, but then people

1:50:45 Speaker 4: start coming around and they go, oh, actually, thank you

1:50:47 Speaker 4: for doing that. So in terms of an overall effect,

1:50:52 Speaker 4: I'd like it to have. I would like it to

1:50:54 Speaker 4: affect the conference circuit more than anything. Yes, in terms

1:50:58 Speaker 4: of vetting speakers, which contacting the desert, for example, under

1:51:05 Speaker 4: their new management, they've been a lot better about inviting

1:51:11 Speaker 4: crazier aspects of the UFO community. Now, obviously they have

1:51:15 Speaker 4: to balance it business wise with what who's going to

1:51:18 Speaker 4: sell tickets and is an interesting speaker versus who's actually

1:51:23 Speaker 4: speaking just facts. So I think there's been a step

1:51:28 Speaker 4: in the right direction. And you know, I know the

1:51:31 Speaker 4: team over there at Contact, and you know they care

1:51:34 Speaker 4: a lot, like they really care about putting on a

1:51:37 Speaker 4: good show and not having people that are going to

1:51:41 Speaker 4: abuse the trust of the audience or abuse the trust

1:51:45 Speaker 4: of financial backers or people that anyone who might believe them.

1:51:49 Speaker 4: They try not to have people like that anymore, which

1:51:52 Speaker 4: is good because the platforming of Emory Smith and David

1:51:56 Speaker 4: Wilcock and Corey Good was extremely problematic at the time

1:52:00 Speaker 4: because it was feeding into this notion of a dark

1:52:02 Speaker 4: alliance and these critics to the point where David Wilcock

1:52:05 Speaker 4: claimed that there was death threat to contact in the

1:52:07 Speaker 4: Desert twenty nineteen and had security walking around the hotel

1:52:11 Speaker 4: when none of it ever happened, but it became part

1:52:13 Speaker 4: of the mythology and affected a real world event.

1:52:17 Speaker 1: So I did not know that.

1:52:20 Speaker 4: That's pretty crazy. There's there was, Like I said, there's

1:52:22 Speaker 4: a lot, like wow, for everything we fit into the

1:52:27 Speaker 4: two three hours of film. There we go two three

1:52:32 Speaker 4: hours of the two episodes that we did, barely stretches

1:52:36 Speaker 4: the surface, barely offire. I'll send you. I have so

1:52:42 Speaker 4: much material where I could send you that's like, wait,

1:52:44 Speaker 4: this happened. Wait this happened, and you know you could

1:52:48 Speaker 4: probably put them in here, so that would be that

1:52:52 Speaker 4: would be great. I do have a I have a

1:52:54 Speaker 4: hard cut off in ten minutes.

1:52:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I want to good. That's a good I

1:53:02 Speaker 1: didn't even realize that we went so long. Okay, So

1:53:11 Speaker 1: I have one question, because I always do this, I

1:53:13 Speaker 1: have one bonus question or like like members a couple,

1:53:21 Speaker 1: but I'm just gonna cut it to my favorite one.

1:53:25 Speaker 1: So the UFO community often portrays itself as a victim

1:53:30 Speaker 1: of mainstream ridicule. Yet Dark Alliance suggests some of its

1:53:35 Speaker 1: wounds are self inflicted through blind devotion of unverified claims.

1:53:40 Speaker 1: What's the most shocking example of self sabotage you uncovered, I.

1:53:48 Speaker 4: Would say probably Corey admitting that it was all false

1:53:52 Speaker 4: in the deposition that that was. That was the lynch

1:53:56 Speaker 4: pin that he hung his entire story and career off of,

1:54:01 Speaker 4: was that this was real. For him to then try

1:54:05 Speaker 4: and claim that it was marketing tactics or a marketing

1:54:08 Speaker 4: strategy for the development of his IP. That's probably one

1:54:14 Speaker 4: of the big biggest self inflicted wounds but also the

1:54:16 Speaker 4: biggest self inflicted heels at the same time, because a

1:54:19 Speaker 4: lot of people just went finally said it because we

1:54:23 Speaker 4: all knew it, and then all the people that followed

1:54:25 Speaker 4: him went, oh, well, now I have to heal from that.

1:54:29 Speaker 4: So it's kind of a self inflicted wound, but it's

1:54:31 Speaker 4: also a self healing wound because it it knocked a

1:54:35 Speaker 4: lot of people out of the orbit, which is what

1:54:38 Speaker 4: you know. It probably more people than Dark Alliance could

1:54:41 Speaker 4: have ever done. Because I remember once me and Stephen

1:54:44 Speaker 4: released that into the wild, I was finding clips on

1:54:47 Speaker 4: TikTok with like a million views of that deposition, and

1:54:50 Speaker 4: I'm like that my graphics card rendered that. That's funny.

1:54:56 Speaker 4: It was al really like oh wow, like that's all unexpected. Yeah,

1:55:00 Speaker 4: it was a no ship moment of wow. That went

1:55:02 Speaker 4: so much further than I thought it was going to.

1:55:05 Speaker 1: And yeah, I think, I mean, it's still looked back

1:55:07 Speaker 1: on as one of the you know, one of the

1:55:10 Speaker 1: greatest rug poles rug pole moments like uh in modern

1:55:16 Speaker 1: you know, quote unquote uphology. Let's so what I mean,

1:55:21 Speaker 1: what comes next? What comes next for you guys?

1:55:23 Speaker 4: So I can't say what or when or when or why,

1:55:27 Speaker 4: but we are we're very deep on the next one.

1:55:32 Speaker 4: It's going to be good. I'm very excited about it.

1:55:36 Speaker 4: It's going to be it's gonna be covering a lot

1:55:39 Speaker 4: of a lot of the stuff we've covered here today.

1:55:41 Speaker 4: In terms of the why, I want to ask one

1:55:44 Speaker 4: thing I want to get into deeper on this one

1:55:45 Speaker 4: is the why. Now if we get there, we get there,

1:55:49 Speaker 4: if we don't, we know there's a lot of stuff

1:55:50 Speaker 4: to cover. But I'm excited for it. We're about half

1:55:55 Speaker 4: just over halfway through production right now.

1:55:59 Speaker 1: You know, when you do finish it, i'd love to

1:56:02 Speaker 1: you know, obviously revisit this conversation, and.

1:56:05 Speaker 4: You know, I'll be able to get into a lot

1:56:07 Speaker 4: more stuff to the newer people.

1:56:10 Speaker 1: Right right. And you know, if there's any if there's

1:56:15 Speaker 1: anyone that's watching this that might be you know, still

1:56:19 Speaker 1: stuck aside from watching Dark Alliance, you know, what would

1:56:26 Speaker 1: you say to them?

1:56:28 Speaker 4: I would say, log off, get offline, go outside, meet people,

1:56:33 Speaker 4: empathize and interface with people in the real world. This

1:56:37 Speaker 4: this ufone narrative that you're you're following week to week

1:56:40 Speaker 4: or I guess it's not really a weekly thing with

1:56:43 Speaker 4: Corey anymore. But people that follow these New Age secret

1:56:46 Speaker 4: Space program narratives, I would say, create space for yourself.

1:56:51 Speaker 4: As someone that was completely wrapped up in the stuff

1:56:54 Speaker 4: to the whint I changed my diet, I was following

1:56:58 Speaker 4: a new age lifestyle.

1:57:01 Speaker 1: You had a kid.

1:57:02 Speaker 4: I had a kid. Still the coolest part about it,

1:57:06 Speaker 4: I think, Yeah, it creates creates space for yourself, don't

1:57:14 Speaker 4: It reminds me of something that David Thibodeau's mom said

1:57:17 Speaker 4: to David Thibodeaux when he called her from the branch

1:57:21 Speaker 4: Davidian Church. Don't give all of yourself to them, keep

1:57:26 Speaker 4: a little bit of yourself for you and from there

1:57:29 Speaker 4: that's where you. That's how like that little bit of

1:57:32 Speaker 4: yourself is that guy jumping in the whole saying I've

1:57:35 Speaker 4: been down here before and I know the way out.

1:57:37 Speaker 1: What an amazing that well, that was such an amazing

1:57:40 Speaker 1: spot that we'll just leave it there. And gentlemen, ladies

1:57:45 Speaker 1: and gentlemen, thank you so much for watching today's episode

1:57:49 Speaker 1: of Total Disclosure or what listening this has been Cary

1:57:53 Speaker 1: lindsay again, all the links for Dark Alliance will be

1:57:57 Speaker 1: in the description below, as well as where you can

1:58:00 Speaker 1: follow up with what he's doing and what is going

1:58:03 Speaker 1: on in that and that side of the community. Uh,

1:58:07 Speaker 1: super super thank you to going like for for spending

1:58:11 Speaker 1: this time with me today.

1:58:12 Speaker 4: Hey, Norah's thank you for having me. Can I can

1:58:15 Speaker 4: I plug my Twitter? Can I can? I? Yeah? So

1:58:18 Speaker 4: I'm parennally posting crazy memes and UFO history and stuff online.

1:58:24 Speaker 4: You can find me at Fires of Truth on x.

1:58:28 Speaker 4: I also have a substack, but I don't write on

1:58:30 Speaker 4: it too much. It's called Spooky Speaks dot substat dot com.

1:58:33 Speaker 4: I did a good review of the Disclosure First conference

1:58:37 Speaker 4: a couple of years ago, where there was an ill

1:58:39 Speaker 4: fated trip to Rachel, Nevada, and James Fox bailed on

1:58:42 Speaker 4: his film premiere. Go read it. It's pretty interesting. But

1:58:46 Speaker 4: thank you very much for having me, and thank you

1:58:48 Speaker 4: for listening, audience and watching. It's been a pleasure. I

1:58:51 Speaker 4: look forward to having more continuing dialogues about this because

1:58:54 Speaker 4: I think it's an important it's an important conversation, and

1:58:57 Speaker 4: it's important to have these honest, hard conversations where we

1:59:00 Speaker 4: can approach these ideas without having to get emotionally wrapped

1:59:04 Speaker 4: up or triggered in it, which I think is going

1:59:07 Speaker 4: back to what we were saying, is a big problem

1:59:10 Speaker 4: within the community. Absolutely of an emotional regulation is important

1:59:16 Speaker 4: for the topic, right.

1:59:18 Speaker 1: I mean, because I saw a UFO, I saw some

1:59:21 Speaker 1: other stuff, and you know what I mean. It's like

1:59:23 Speaker 1: I know what I saw, but I don't know that

1:59:26 Speaker 1: there's a secret twenty M back program.

1:59:28 Speaker 4: Right.

1:59:29 Speaker 1: That sounds legitimately crazy, and you know, to just to

1:59:34 Speaker 1: be able to discern the two, like we know that

1:59:37 Speaker 1: there's UFOs because we understand that there's unknowns and that

1:59:41 Speaker 1: this world is not you know, it's not black and white.

1:59:43 Speaker 1: There's a lot of gray, So why waste time with

1:59:48 Speaker 1: all this fanciful bullshit when the truth is often you know,

1:59:53 Speaker 1: stranger than fiction already.

1:59:55 Speaker 4: So thank you.

1:59:57 Speaker 1: Like I said, thank you so much everyone, guys of

1:59:59 Speaker 1: the life blood of this show. I couldn't do without you,

2:00:02 Speaker 1: wouldn't do it without you. And you know, keep you know,

2:00:06 Speaker 1: stay vigilant, question everything, and we will seem