UFO Hearing LIVE: Congress Confronts Pentagon Secrets | Sept 9, 2025

0:08 Speaker 1: This hearing of the Task Force on Declassification of Federal

0:10 Speaker 1: Secrets will come to an order Welcome everyone without objection.

0:14 Speaker 1: The Chair may declare a recess at any time. Additionally,

0:18 Speaker 1: without any objection, the following members are waved onto the

0:20 Speaker 1: Task Force for the purpose of questioning witnesses at today's hearing,

0:24 Speaker 1: Representative Biggs of Arizona, Representative Baggage of Alaska, Representative Ogles

0:30 Speaker 1: of Tennessee, Representative Titus of Nevada, and Representative Moscoits of Florida.

0:36 Speaker 1: There are no objections. I recognize myself for the purpose

0:38 Speaker 1: of making an opening statement, Good morning, and welcome to

0:42 Speaker 1: the hearing regarding UAP disclosures. For too long, the issue

0:46 Speaker 1: of unidentified anomalous phenomena, commonly known as UAPs, has been

0:50 Speaker 1: shrouded in secrecy, stigma, and in some case, outright dismissal.

0:54 Speaker 1: Today I want to state clearly that this is not

0:56 Speaker 1: science fiction or creating speculation. This is a about national security,

1:01 Speaker 1: government accountability, and the American people's right to the truth.

1:05 Speaker 1: I've spoken now to a number of whistleblowers from the military,

1:07 Speaker 1: to include the infamous Egglin Air Force Base incident that

1:10 Speaker 1: occurred when myself and former Representative Matt Gates, as well

1:13 Speaker 1: as Representative Burchett followed up on a lead from multiple

1:16 Speaker 1: active duty Air Force pilot whistleblowers that allege that the

1:19 Speaker 1: United States Air Force was covering up UAP activity at

1:21 Speaker 1: a Gland Air Force base. We have heard from a

1:24 Speaker 1: number of whistleblowers, specifically military pilots, that the reason for

1:27 Speaker 1: not coming forward publicly is out of fear that speaking

1:30 Speaker 1: out would cost them their flight status and potentially their careers.

1:34 Speaker 1: This is unacceptable. We cannot protect our airspaces if our

1:38 Speaker 1: best trained observers are silenced. We cannot advance science if

1:41 Speaker 1: we refuse to ask questions, and we cannot maintain trust

1:45 Speaker 1: in government if we keep the American people in the dark. Now,

1:49 Speaker 1: Congress has tried to fix this problem. Congress tried to

1:52 Speaker 1: create formal channels through the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office

1:55 Speaker 1: also known as ARROW, and the Intelligence Community Inspector General,

1:59 Speaker 1: First service members and officials to make disclosures, but the

2:03 Speaker 1: reality the reports come in are often to brush aside,

2:07 Speaker 1: slow walked, or met with skepticism rather than serious investigation. Recently,

2:12 Speaker 1: the former ERA director known as Sean Kopatrick attacked our

2:14 Speaker 1: witnesses and members on this committee. It should be noted

2:17 Speaker 1: that he's a documented liar and brings into question what

2:20 Speaker 1: his purpose that AERRA really was if it was not

2:22 Speaker 1: to follow up on investigations and disclose his findings to

2:24 Speaker 1: members of Congress. A former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense

2:29 Speaker 1: for Intelligence, Chris Mellin, described a report published by ERA

2:32 Speaker 1: that found no evidence that any USG investigation, academic sponsored research,

2:37 Speaker 1: or official review panel has confirmed any siding of UAP

2:40 Speaker 1: represented extraterrestrial technology as the most air ridden and unsatisfactory

2:47 Speaker 1: government report I can recall reading during after decades of

2:50 Speaker 1: government service. Mellan further noted that this was a first

2:54 Speaker 1: air report submitted to Congress without the Director of National

2:58 Speaker 1: Intelligence's sign off and seemingly exclus input from any scholars

3:02 Speaker 1: or experts who have studied or written exclusively about this topic,

3:05 Speaker 1: extensively about this topic, as would normally be in any

3:08 Speaker 1: other case in this field. Melon determined that this report

3:12 Speaker 1: failed to fulfill the congressional mandate under which it was required,

3:15 Speaker 1: omitted entire agencies with known investigations or activities related to UAPs,

3:20 Speaker 1: and omitted any discussion of efforts to hide classified or

3:23 Speaker 1: unclassified information about UAP. Such efforts were unaddressed by the report,

3:29 Speaker 1: despite the existence of agency records and investigations concurring with them,

3:34 Speaker 1: including those at US Customs and Border Protection. If we

3:39 Speaker 1: set up offices and oversight bodies only to let them

3:42 Speaker 1: become graveyards for testimony, or worse yet, ruises for pretending

3:45 Speaker 1: to investigate when in actuality there was no follow up,

3:48 Speaker 1: then we are not doing our jobs. In recent months,

3:50 Speaker 1: Congress has also been presented with evidence that points to

3:53 Speaker 1: technologies that, to our knowledge, are beyond our current capabilities.

3:57 Speaker 1: It is our duty as elected representatives to follow the

4:00 Speaker 1: wherever they lead, and to ensure that those facts are

4:02 Speaker 1: not buried under classification stamps or bureaucratic excuses. Let me

4:06 Speaker 1: be clear whether UAPs represent adders, serial technology, natural phenomena,

4:10 Speaker 1: or something beyond current human understanding. Congress has a responsibility

4:14 Speaker 1: to investigate. If these objects are foreign in origin, then

4:18 Speaker 1: they pose a direct threat to our national security, and

4:21 Speaker 1: if they represent something unknown, they demand rigorous scientific inquiry,

4:24 Speaker 1: not ridicule, not secrecy, and not silence. The stakes are

4:27 Speaker 1: very high. Addresserah nations are not waiting for US to

4:30 Speaker 1: catch up. They are studying these phenomena as well aggressively,

4:34 Speaker 1: as multiple nations have also announced their own parliamentary investigations

4:38 Speaker 1: into this very topic. If we are to continue to

4:42 Speaker 1: hide information from ourselves, we risk strategic surprise. If we

4:46 Speaker 1: continue to ignore our pilots and service members, as well

4:48 Speaker 1: as countless government whistleblowers, we risk losing their trust. And

4:52 Speaker 1: if we continue to shield the truth from the public,

4:54 Speaker 1: we risk eroding the very foundation of democratic accountability. This

4:58 Speaker 1: is why this hearing matter. This is not about fueling speculation.

5:02 Speaker 1: This is about demanding the basic transparency from the Department

5:05 Speaker 1: of Defense and the intelligence community and other military contractors.

5:09 Speaker 1: It is about asking the questions every American has the

5:12 Speaker 1: right to ask. What do we know, what don't we know?

5:16 Speaker 1: And why a free society are we being told so little.

5:20 Speaker 1: A major barrier to this Committee's inquiry into UAPs has

5:23 Speaker 1: been the lack of cooperation and transparency from the Department

5:26 Speaker 1: of Defense and the intelligence community. In preparation for previous

5:30 Speaker 1: UAP hearings, the Committee repeatedly asked the Department of Defense

5:34 Speaker 1: to allow members to view videos and files related to

5:36 Speaker 1: UAP incidences. Unfortunately, the Department of Defense notified the committee

5:40 Speaker 1: staff that due to the department's special Access program rules,

5:44 Speaker 1: only members of the House Armed Service Committee as well

5:46 Speaker 1: as the Defense Subcommittee on House Appropriations also known as HACKDE,

5:50 Speaker 1: were allowed to be read in onto such programs. For

5:54 Speaker 1: a non committee member to be allowed to view these

5:56 Speaker 1: documents in videos, individual members must be approved by the

5:59 Speaker 1: chairman and ranking member of both HASK and hack D.

6:02 Speaker 1: Independent stap oversite has presented a consistent problem for Congress

6:06 Speaker 1: as well as program budgets are classified. Additionally, oversight reporting

6:10 Speaker 1: to Congress is classified and only provided to the authorizing

6:13 Speaker 1: and appropriations committees of jurisdiction. The American people are not fragile.

6:18 Speaker 1: They do not need to be shielded like children from reality.

6:22 Speaker 1: What they cannot tolerate and what they will not forgive

6:24 Speaker 1: is a government that withholds the truth and punishes those

6:26 Speaker 1: who dare to speak up. I want to close with this.

6:30 Speaker 1: Future generations will look back at this moment and ask

6:33 Speaker 1: what we did when presented with the unknown. Did we

6:35 Speaker 1: look away, embarrassed or afraid, or did we pursue the

6:38 Speaker 1: truth with courage? I intend to be on the side

6:42 Speaker 1: of truth, transparency, and accountability, and I hope my colleagues

6:44 Speaker 1: on this task force will be able to do the same.

6:47 Speaker 1: To quote a few elected officials, Senator Schumer has stated

6:51 Speaker 1: multiple credible sources allege a constitutional crisis over UFOs. Senator

6:56 Speaker 1: Rounds has stated that these are brilliant individuals and they

6:59 Speaker 1: are not making this up. And our current Secretary of State,

7:02 Speaker 1: Marco Rubio, has stated very high clearances and high positions

7:05 Speaker 1: within our government in regards to these whistleblowers. Senator McConnell

7:10 Speaker 1: also described these whistleblers as staying incredible, and the witnesses

7:14 Speaker 1: today are not alone. In fact, they're far from it.

7:16 Speaker 1: In fact, thirty four senior military, government and intelligent officials

7:20 Speaker 1: have broken their silence. This includes Senator or now Secretary

7:25 Speaker 1: of State, Marc Rubio, Senator round Senator gillibrand General Jim Clapper,

7:29 Speaker 1: the former director of the government government's UAP task Force,

7:32 Speaker 1: the former head of aviation security for the White House

7:35 Speaker 1: National Security Council, the former Secretary of Defense, and many more. Again,

7:41 Speaker 1: to quote Senator Secretary of State Rubio in an upcoming

7:44 Speaker 1: documentary known as the Age of Disclosure, even presidents have

7:47 Speaker 1: been operating on a need to know basis that begins

7:49 Speaker 1: to spin out of control. And to quote Senator Gillibrand,

7:53 Speaker 1: who also went public in this documentary, it's not acceptable

7:56 Speaker 1: to have secret parts of this government that no one

7:58 Speaker 1: ever sees. It's time for the funndamental truths of UAP

8:01 Speaker 1: to be real tor nations leaders and the public. It's

8:04 Speaker 1: time for the US government to exercise transparency. And with

8:07 Speaker 1: that I yield to Ranking Member Crockett for the opening statement.

8:10 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Madam Chair. At a time of

8:13 Speaker 2: increasing distrust in government, it is important for Congress to

8:17 Speaker 2: take action to restore the government's credibility. Bringing transparency to

8:22 Speaker 2: an issue of great public interests is a step toward

8:25 Speaker 2: doing just that. So I think Sharewoman Luna for calling

8:29 Speaker 2: this bipartisan hearing to discuss unidentified anomalist phenomena or UAP,

8:35 Speaker 2: which is today's term for what was commonly known as

8:39 Speaker 2: UFO's unidentified flying objects. And while some people think of

8:44 Speaker 2: flying saucers when they hear these terms, it is vital

8:48 Speaker 2: that we focus on the real world's impact of UAPs

8:51 Speaker 2: on critical infrastructure, civilian safety, and national security. There is

8:57 Speaker 2: good reason to believe that most UAPs have origins far

9:01 Speaker 2: closer to home. Currently, NASA has not found any evidence

9:05 Speaker 2: that any UAPs have an extraterrestrial origin. Our adversaries are

9:11 Speaker 2: working to develop new capabilities to gain military advantages, and

9:16 Speaker 2: those efforts are likely explanation for the mysteries that we

9:21 Speaker 2: have observed. Nevertheless, the federal government has a responsibility to

9:26 Speaker 2: the American people to investigate and provide transparent disclosures about

9:30 Speaker 2: every incident.

9:32 Speaker 3: The federal government is equally obligated.

9:34 Speaker 2: To protect those who report what they've seen, especially to

9:39 Speaker 2: commanding officers and supervisors, and Congress should do everything in

9:43 Speaker 2: its power to protect whistleblowers and conduct oversight of agencies

9:48 Speaker 2: that are failing to provide that protection. Democracy depends on transparency,

9:52 Speaker 2: and transparency often relies on the courage of individuals willing

9:57 Speaker 2: to risk their careers, reputations, and in some cases, their

10:01 Speaker 2: personal safety to.

10:02 Speaker 1: Tell the truth.

10:03 Speaker 2: So I look forward to hearing from the witnesses today.

10:06 Speaker 2: We should welcome their accounts and acknowledge the bravery they

10:10 Speaker 2: have shown to come before us. We must ensure that

10:14 Speaker 2: all whistleblowers feel that they can come to Congress to

10:17 Speaker 2: tell their stories without fear of retaliation or of professional consequences.

10:22 Speaker 2: We need transparency, not just to make better policy, but

10:26 Speaker 2: also to ensure that information flows between all those who

10:30 Speaker 2: need it. There are too many tragic examples in our

10:33 Speaker 2: history where information lapses and a lack of cross agency

10:38 Speaker 2: coordination led to disaster. Just this year, failure to communicate

10:42 Speaker 2: between FAA and the Department of Defense led to tragedy

10:47 Speaker 2: over the Potomac. The Biden Haris administration sought to eliminate

10:51 Speaker 2: some of these lapses when it established the All Domain

10:55 Speaker 2: Anomaly Resolution Office at the Department of Defense. AERO can

11:00 Speaker 2: convene sources from all branches of military, the FAA, and

11:05 Speaker 2: NASA to combine forces to create a comprehensive picture of

11:09 Speaker 2: what is happening in our skies. Some UAP reports have

11:13 Speaker 2: perfectly normal explanations satellites, consumer drones, weather balloons, even pranks,

11:20 Speaker 2: but we need to track down each and every single UAP.

11:25 Speaker 2: The United States has millions of eyes in the sky,

11:29 Speaker 2: both electronic and human, but only the combination of civilian, commercial,

11:34 Speaker 2: and military sources can begin to create a complete picture.

11:39 Speaker 2: So we need to ensure that people can come forward

11:41 Speaker 2: and report what they have seen to the relevant authorities,

11:45 Speaker 2: and they have to have the right to do so

11:47 Speaker 2: without fear of retaliation. This country has a history of

11:51 Speaker 2: dedicated public servants standing up for what is right, even

11:55 Speaker 2: in the face of potential consequences. From the Pentagon Papers

11:59 Speaker 2: to Watergate to torture programs, whistle blowers have not only

12:03 Speaker 2: informed the public, but also empowered Congress to fulfill its

12:07 Speaker 2: constitutional duty of oversight. Past Congresses have written laws to

12:13 Speaker 2: grant legal protection for whistle blowers, and it is up

12:16 Speaker 2: to us to work responsibly with all sources to hold

12:20 Speaker 2: the executive branch accountable. We are here today to listen

12:25 Speaker 2: to the stories of those who have witnessed events of

12:28 Speaker 2: interest to the American people and to support the policies

12:32 Speaker 2: that cultivate an environment that welcomes and protects whistle blowers.

12:36 Speaker 2: I hope this hearing will be an example of the

12:39 Speaker 2: respect and protection whistleblowers deserve and the importance of conducting

12:44 Speaker 2: oversight of the federal government.

12:46 Speaker 1: I yeel back. I am pleased to welcome the panel

12:51 Speaker 1: of witnesses for today's hearing. I'd first like to welcome

12:55 Speaker 1: mister Jeffrey Nussatelli is the United State's Air Force veteran

12:59 Speaker 1: and a career federal employee with more than twenty years

13:01 Speaker 1: of experience in national security, law enforcement, and public administration. Next,

13:06 Speaker 1: we have mister alex Alexandra Wiggins. Mister Wiggins is currently

13:12 Speaker 1: serving as a Senior Chief Operation Specialist in the United

13:14 Speaker 1: States Navy. Mister Wiggins is testifying in his personal capacity

13:18 Speaker 1: today and not on behalf of the United States Navy. Next,

13:22 Speaker 1: I would like to recognize a gentlewoman from Nevada, Representative Titus.

13:26 Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Madam Chairman, Ranking Members, allowing me

13:30 Speaker 4: to sit with you on this panel today. I'm honored

13:33 Speaker 4: to be able to introduce a witness here who is

13:36 Speaker 4: from my district, George Knapp, who has been the definitive

13:41 Speaker 4: expert and reporter on this topic that you're exploring today

13:45 Speaker 4: UAPs or UFOs. George is a longtime friend out say

13:51 Speaker 4: that up front of a very respected journalist and a

13:55 Speaker 4: recognized expert in this field nationally and internationally. Just a

14:00 Speaker 4: little something about George. He came to Las Vegas in

14:04 Speaker 4: nineteen seventy nine and joined KLS television station as a

14:08 Speaker 4: general assignment reporter in nineteen eighty one. Since nineteen ninety five,

14:14 Speaker 4: he's been the chief investigative reporter for that channel. He

14:18 Speaker 4: also hosts a national radio show you can listen to

14:21 Speaker 4: on Coast to Coast AM which covers many of the

14:25 Speaker 4: paranormal topics that y'all are discussing. Over the years, George

14:29 Speaker 4: has been, as I said, recognized for his work. He's

14:32 Speaker 4: been honored with the Peabody Award, the DuPont Award, the

14:36 Speaker 4: Edward Murrow Award, in twenty seven different regional Emmys for

14:42 Speaker 4: his investigative reporting. Indeed, he has told Nevada's story with

14:48 Speaker 4: the clarity, with objectivity, and with integrity. So I know

14:54 Speaker 4: that his testimony today is going to be of great

14:58 Speaker 4: interest and vague to the commanding So thank.

15:01 Speaker 5: You very much.

15:03 Speaker 1: Next we have mister Dylan Borland. Mister Borland is the

15:05 Speaker 1: United States Air Force veteran has a long career in

15:08 Speaker 1: federal service. And finally, I'd like to introduce mister Joe Spielberger,

15:13 Speaker 1: a senior policy council at the Project of Government Oversight.

15:18 Speaker 1: Pursuant to Committee Rule nine G, the witnesses will please

15:21 Speaker 1: stand and raise the right hand. Do you solemnly swear

15:30 Speaker 1: or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give

15:33 Speaker 1: is a truth, the whole truth, and the nothing but

15:35 Speaker 1: the truth, So help you God. Let the record show

15:38 Speaker 1: that the witnesses answered and affirmative. Thank you. You may

15:41 Speaker 1: take your seat. We appreciate you being here today and

15:47 Speaker 1: I look forward to hearing your testimony. Let me remind

15:49 Speaker 1: the witnesses that we have read your written statements and

15:52 Speaker 1: it will appear in full in the hearing record. Please

15:55 Speaker 1: limit your oral statements to five minutes, but I understand

15:58 Speaker 1: you have a lot to get through, so if it

15:59 Speaker 1: goes a little over, don't worry about it. As a reminder,

16:02 Speaker 1: please press the button on the microphone in front of

16:04 Speaker 1: you so that it is on and the members can

16:06 Speaker 1: hear you. When you begin to speak, the light in

16:08 Speaker 1: front of you will turn green. After four minutes, the

16:11 Speaker 1: light will turn yellow, and when the red light comes on,

16:13 Speaker 1: your five minutes have expired and we will ask you

16:15 Speaker 1: to please wrap it up. I now recognize mister Nustelli

16:19 Speaker 1: for his opening statement.

16:22 Speaker 6: Good morning. Thank you Chairwoman Luna, ranking Member Crockett, and

16:28 Speaker 6: members of the Task Force for giving us the opportunity

16:32 Speaker 6: to testify today. My name is Jeffrey Neusatelli. I'm a

16:36 Speaker 6: former military police officer with sixteen years of active duty

16:39 Speaker 6: service in the US Air Force. I'm here today because

16:42 Speaker 6: the American people have both the right and the responsibility

16:46 Speaker 6: to know the truth about unidentified aerial phenomenon. That truth

16:51 Speaker 6: remains hidden, classified, and silenced by fear, retaliation, stigma, and confusion.

16:58 Speaker 6: Today we are here to help break that silence. Between

17:02 Speaker 6: two thousand and three and two thousand and five, five

17:05 Speaker 6: UAP incidents occurred at Vanderberg Air Force Base, home to

17:09 Speaker 6: the National Missile Defense Project, a top national security priority

17:14 Speaker 6: at the time, we were conducting launches deemed by the

17:17 Speaker 6: National Reconnaissance Office as the most important in twenty five years.

17:22 Speaker 6: These were historic launches. These facilities were vital, and they

17:26 Speaker 6: were repeatedly visited by UAP. Each incident was witnessed by

17:33 Speaker 6: multiple personnel, documented, investigated, and reported up the chain of command.

17:39 Speaker 6: We sent information up, but we got no guidance down

17:42 Speaker 6: on how to handle these events. I personally witnessed one

17:47 Speaker 6: of these events and investigated others as they occurred. Six

17:51 Speaker 6: other service members have provided me with the information that

17:54 Speaker 6: I will share with you today. The incursions began on

17:59 Speaker 6: October fourteenth, two thousand and three, when Boeing contractors reported

18:03 Speaker 6: a massive glowing red square silently hovering over two missile

18:07 Speaker 6: defense sites. After several minutes, it drifted further east onto

18:12 Speaker 6: the base and vanished over the hills. This event, now

18:15 Speaker 6: known as the Vanderberg Red Square, was referenced by Representative

18:19 Speaker 6: Luna at the first hearing on this topic. Official Air

18:23 Speaker 6: Force records of this event are in possession by ARROW

18:27 Speaker 6: and the FBI. Later that night, while I was on duty,

18:33 Speaker 6: security guards at a critical launch site reported a bright,

18:36 Speaker 6: fast moving object over the ocean. I responded to the incident.

18:41 Speaker 6: Chaos ensued over the radio as the object approached rapidly.

18:46 Speaker 6: I heard my friends screaming, it is coming right at us,

18:49 Speaker 6: It's coming right for us, and now it's right here.

18:53 Speaker 6: Moments later I heard them say that it had shot

18:55 Speaker 6: off and was gone. When I arrived on scene, I

18:59 Speaker 6: talked to five shaken witnesses who described a massive triangular

19:03 Speaker 6: craft larger than a football field, that hovered silently for

19:07 Speaker 6: about forty five seconds over their entery control point before

19:11 Speaker 6: shooting away at impossible speed. About a week later, another

19:16 Speaker 6: patrol reported a light over the ocean behaving erradically. Believing

19:20 Speaker 6: it might be an unannounced aircraft, they declared an emergency

19:24 Speaker 6: and an armed response force responded. Before the forces could arrive,

19:29 Speaker 6: the object descended and either landed or hovered on our

19:33 Speaker 6: flight line, and then took off again at impossible speed.

19:40 Speaker 6: The witnesses to this event were threatened and intimidated. Afterward,

19:46 Speaker 6: they were told to keep quiet and think about what

19:48 Speaker 6: they were reporting. After that, things did get quiet until

19:54 Speaker 6: about two thousand and five, when another patrol reported a

19:57 Speaker 6: massive triangular craft larger than a C one thirty silently

20:03 Speaker 6: floating over the installation. He watched it for a few minutes.

20:07 Speaker 6: It traveled west and disappeared into the night. And then

20:12 Speaker 6: I had my own encounter again. In two thousand and five.

20:15 Speaker 6: I was off duty, sitting in my backyard with two

20:18 Speaker 6: other police officers when we noticed what first appeared to

20:21 Speaker 6: be a satellite in orbit, but it wasn't acting like

20:24 Speaker 6: a satellite. The light was strange. It was pulsing, and

20:27 Speaker 6: then it started to maneuver. It dropped in elevation. At

20:31 Speaker 6: times it would vanish from view and reappear in a

20:33 Speaker 6: different location in the sky, and eventually it reappeared two

20:37 Speaker 6: hundred feet over my house. It was a thirty foot

20:40 Speaker 6: diameter sphere of light. My friends and I watched it

20:45 Speaker 6: for a moment, and then it gently accelerated and traveled

20:49 Speaker 6: up and disappeared into the stars. These events profoundly changed

20:54 Speaker 6: my life and the lives of my friends. We stand

20:58 Speaker 6: at a pivotal moment in history. The question is no

21:01 Speaker 6: longer whether these events are real, but whether we have

21:04 Speaker 6: the courage to face them. True leadership requires vision, a

21:09 Speaker 6: willingness to confront the unknown with transparency and resolve. So

21:13 Speaker 6: I ask the Congress to help we the people, enact

21:17 Speaker 6: this vision. There are three goals. Fund independent research and

21:22 Speaker 6: treat UAP study with the same seriousness as we would

21:25 Speaker 6: any other scientific field. Two end secrecy and overclassification. Transparency

21:32 Speaker 6: is the foundation of truth. Without it, witnesses like us

21:37 Speaker 6: are dismissed. Three Protect the witnesses. Many stay silent out

21:43 Speaker 6: of fear for their careers, reputations, and the safety of

21:47 Speaker 6: their families. Protect them, and you will embolden others to

21:51 Speaker 6: join this cause. These phenomenon challenge are deepest assumptions about reality, consciousness,

21:58 Speaker 6: and our place in the universe. Exploring them can unlock

22:02 Speaker 6: transformative breakthroughs in technology, biology, and human understanding. Let this

22:08 Speaker 6: be the moment when America chooses courage over fear, transparency

22:13 Speaker 6: over secrecy, and progress over stagnation. Let's show the world

22:18 Speaker 6: that our nation leads not only through strength, but through

22:21 Speaker 6: fearless pursuit of the truth.

22:23 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, mister Newtelli. I now recognize Chief

22:35 Speaker 1: Wiggins for his opening statement. Please press your button. Thank you.

22:44 Speaker 7: Good morning, Chairwoman Luna, ranking Member Procket, and members of

22:49 Speaker 7: the task Force and the Committee. Thank you for the

22:52 Speaker 7: opportunity to testify today. My name is Alexandro Wiggins. I'm

22:56 Speaker 7: an active duty US Navy Operation Specialist, Chief, pityoficer, father

23:02 Speaker 7: of three, and dedicated American, testifying today in my personal capacity.

23:07 Speaker 7: The views I share are my own and I do

23:09 Speaker 7: not represent the official positions of the Department of the

23:12 Speaker 7: Navy or any subordinate organization. On the evening of February fifteenth,

23:19 Speaker 7: twenty twenty three, at approximately nineteen fifteen PST, in the

23:24 Speaker 7: Whiskey two nine to one warning area off the coast

23:28 Speaker 7: of southern California, I was serving on board USS Jackson.

23:34 Speaker 7: During that period, I moved between the Interior Communications Center

23:39 Speaker 7: ICC one and the Bridge Wing, correlating the censor pitcher

23:43 Speaker 7: with visual observations. Part of my routine responsibilities for surface

23:48 Speaker 7: and air picture management. What I observed in what our

23:52 Speaker 7: crew recorded was not consistent with conventional aircraft or drones

23:58 Speaker 7: as they appear on our system. A self luminous tic

24:03 Speaker 7: tax shaped object emerged from the ocean before linking up

24:06 Speaker 7: with three other similar objects. The four then disappeared simultaneously

24:13 Speaker 7: with a high synchronized near instantaneous acceleration. I observed no

24:19 Speaker 7: sonic boom and no conventional propulsion signatures, no exhaust plume,

24:25 Speaker 7: no control surface articulation on the Sapphire image system shortly

24:31 Speaker 7: after the synchronized departure radar tracks dropped. These observations were

24:37 Speaker 7: multisensor and recorded inside of ICC one with time location

24:42 Speaker 7: overlay visible in our source frames that have been made

24:47 Speaker 7: public by journalists. From my experience operating in this region

24:52 Speaker 7: over many years, and consistent with our public characterized encounters,

24:58 Speaker 7: unidentified objects reoccur in United States operation areas off southern California.

25:05 Speaker 7: That fact alone does not tell us what they are,

25:08 Speaker 7: but it does argue the systematic stigma free reporting and

25:15 Speaker 7: for the preservation of sensor data so analysts can evaluate

25:19 Speaker 7: safe and intelligence implications with rigor. I want to underscore

25:26 Speaker 7: three points for the Task Force and the Committee Aviation

25:30 Speaker 7: and Maritime Safety. When crews and watchstanders observe objects that

25:36 Speaker 7: maneuver or accelerate in ways that does not match known profiles,

25:41 Speaker 7: and do not then do so near our ships and aircraft,

25:46 Speaker 7: that is first and foremost a safety issue. Standardized checklist

25:51 Speaker 7: and training should ensure we capture the best possible sensor

25:55 Speaker 7: data in real time, including IR settings, slant range estimates,

26:01 Speaker 7: and bearing and range altitude snapshots, and immediate change of

26:05 Speaker 7: chain of custody for any recordings. Reporting without stigma protection

26:11 Speaker 7: without retribution, Sailors need to know that reporting UAP encounters

26:17 Speaker 7: will not harm their careers. Congress can help by reinforcing

26:22 Speaker 7: witness protection and by directing the relevant office to maintain

26:27 Speaker 7: confidential destigmatized channels for service members who step forward with

26:31 Speaker 7: data declassification and transparency where possible. The Task Force Declassification

26:39 Speaker 7: mission is directly relevant here where operational security permits, releasing metadata,

26:46 Speaker 7: preserved sensor excerpts or at least technical summaries would improve

26:52 Speaker 7: public trust and accelerate outside scientific scrutiny that includes, when feasible,

27:00 Speaker 7: the time GEO reference, IR frames and radar parameters needed

27:03 Speaker 7: for independent analysis. To be clear, I am not here

27:08 Speaker 7: to make claims beyond my lane. I'm here to provide

27:11 Speaker 7: a first hand account of what I saw, what our

27:15 Speaker 7: systems recorded, and why it matters for safety, for intelligence,

27:21 Speaker 7: and public confidence. My request to you is practical, help

27:26 Speaker 7: us capture, protect fairly, evaluate the evidence, and provide a

27:31 Speaker 7: safe pathway for those in uniform to report it. In closing,

27:37 Speaker 7: I want to thank the Committee and the Task Force

27:39 Speaker 7: for holding this hearing and for the plit, and for

27:42 Speaker 7: placing this discussion in a form where evidence can be

27:45 Speaker 7: examined carefully and openly. I appreciate your attention and stand

27:50 Speaker 7: ready to answer your questions.

27:51 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you.

27:53 Speaker 8: Chief.

28:00 Speaker 1: I now recognize mister Napper's opening statement.

28:04 Speaker 9: Good morning, chair Woman Luna, ranking member Miss Crockett, and

28:09 Speaker 9: members of the Task Force and Dinatitis. I just knew

28:11 Speaker 9: we were going to get you involved in this topic

28:13 Speaker 9: at one point. Great to see you here. I'm George Knapp,

28:16 Speaker 9: chief investigator reporter at KLASTV in Las Vegas. I began

28:20 Speaker 9: my pursuit of this weird mystery way back in nineteen

28:23 Speaker 9: eighty seven, and for thirty eight years I've always approached

28:26 Speaker 9: this as a news story. It's not a matter of

28:28 Speaker 9: faith or belief to me. It's a story, and it's

28:31 Speaker 9: an important one. I'm proud to be here alongside these

28:34 Speaker 9: witnesses today, men who have seen strange things and step

28:39 Speaker 9: forward to tell the world about it. Whistleblowers and witnesses

28:43 Speaker 9: who step up are routinely insulted, belittled, or worse. They

28:49 Speaker 9: risk their reputations, their careers, their clearances, their livelihoods, and

28:53 Speaker 9: sometimes much worse than that, even their freedom. I know

28:58 Speaker 9: that one of the goals of the task force here

29:00 Speaker 9: is to figure out ways to protect whistleblowers and witnesses,

29:03 Speaker 9: and it's a tall order because so many of the

29:05 Speaker 9: things that happened to witnesses like these are extra legal.

29:09 Speaker 9: They're carried out by persons unknown, as mister Dave Grush,

29:13 Speaker 9: sitting up at the top of the room knows all

29:15 Speaker 9: too well, including events in recent days that have happened

29:18 Speaker 9: to him. I want to share a couple of things

29:21 Speaker 9: that I've learned along the way on this long journey,

29:23 Speaker 9: and I submitted most of that in written form because

29:26 Speaker 9: I estimate that my statement here today would take about

29:29 Speaker 9: four and a half hours. So I'm going to try

29:31 Speaker 9: to jump over and touch on the more important salient points.

29:34 Speaker 9: I submitted the detailed written statement for the record, and

29:38 Speaker 9: we'll go into a lot of that here. But you know,

29:40 Speaker 9: the public has been told over and over since the

29:44 Speaker 9: late forties, there's nothing to worry about here. These mysterious

29:47 Speaker 9: craft seen by millions of people in the skies, in

29:50 Speaker 9: the oceans over the land are not real. They're not

29:54 Speaker 9: a threat. The witnesses are wrong, they're crackpots. Don't believe it.

29:58 Speaker 9: That changed for me. What me hooked is the paper

30:01 Speaker 9: trail documents that were squeezed out of the US government

30:05 Speaker 9: after the FOIA Freedom of Information Act became the law

30:09 Speaker 9: of the land, and those documents paint a much different

30:11 Speaker 9: picture than what the public, the press, and Congress have

30:14 Speaker 9: been told over many years. The documents from military and

30:19 Speaker 9: intelligence personnel behind closed doors admit that quote, these things

30:23 Speaker 9: are real, they're not fictitious. They can fly in formation,

30:26 Speaker 9: they're evasive, and they outperform any aircraft known to exist,

30:30 Speaker 9: including hours. The public, of course, as I said, has

30:32 Speaker 9: been told something much different. Back in nineteen eighty nine,

30:35 Speaker 9: I reported about a guy named Bob Lazar who claimed

30:38 Speaker 9: that he worked at a facility dubbed S four out

30:41 Speaker 9: in the Nevada Desert, very near to Area fifty one.

30:44 Speaker 9: He said he was part of a reverse engineering program.

30:47 Speaker 9: He said, there are alien craft that will be taken

30:49 Speaker 9: apart to figure out how they operated out there. And

30:52 Speaker 9: that's what was a pretty tall order. I had clearly

30:54 Speaker 9: taken a dive into the deep end of the pool there.

30:56 Speaker 9: But in the years since then, I've interviewed dozens of

30:59 Speaker 9: other people, and I've detailed what their testimony has been

31:02 Speaker 9: in the written statement. They include Senator Harry Reid, Senator

31:06 Speaker 9: Howard Cannon, also of Nevada, a guy named Al O'Donnell

31:09 Speaker 9: who was the first general manager of EG and G

31:12 Speaker 9: in Nevada, which managed to eat Nevada Test Site which

31:14 Speaker 9: blew up hundreds of nuclear weapons. There's a guy named

31:17 Speaker 9: doctor James Lakatski who was a career scientist with a

31:21 Speaker 9: defense intelligence agency, who was the guy who initiated a

31:24 Speaker 9: program called ASAP Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program, which is,

31:30 Speaker 9: as far as we know, the largest acknowledged UFO program

31:34 Speaker 9: ever funded by the US government, which put together an

31:37 Speaker 9: amazing pile of information that members of this committee and

31:41 Speaker 9: the world most of which they have never seen. The

31:44 Speaker 9: DEA still hasn't released ninety five percent of what was

31:48 Speaker 9: prepared by that program at a cost of millions and

31:51 Speaker 9: millions of dollars. The one name I do want to

31:55 Speaker 9: bring up in this section session, though, is Robert Bigelow.

31:58 Speaker 9: So looking into the idea of crash retrievals and reverse engineering.

32:02 Speaker 9: While AWSAPP that program was active, the diia's contractor, Robert

32:07 Speaker 9: Bigelow of Las Vegas, made a bold attempt to acquire

32:10 Speaker 9: physical proof of UFO crashes. It's been widely reported and

32:14 Speaker 9: suspected that Lockheed Martin is one of the contractors, the

32:17 Speaker 9: defense contractors that has held this stuff, stored it away

32:21 Speaker 9: in secrecy, and tried to figure out how it works.

32:26 Speaker 9: I have confirmed on the record that Robert Bigelow and

32:29 Speaker 9: a trusted colleague from AFSAP met with and negotiated with

32:33 Speaker 9: senior executives at Lockheed Martin and hammered out a deal

32:37 Speaker 9: wherein Bigelow's company BASS would receive a quantity of unusual

32:42 Speaker 9: material that had been stashed away and protected at a

32:45 Speaker 9: facility in California. That material was not made here. I

32:49 Speaker 9: want to move on now to the Russia files, because

32:51 Speaker 9: that was going to be sort of the central impetus

32:54 Speaker 9: of what I was going to talk to you about today.

32:55 Speaker 9: Back in the early nineties, I got into Russia met

32:58 Speaker 9: with a number of their defensive fishals, Ministry Defense, and

33:02 Speaker 9: others who confirmed for me that Russia had been doing

33:05 Speaker 9: the same thing that the United States had been doing,

33:08 Speaker 9: that is, secretly studying UFOs while publicly saying something completely different.

33:13 Speaker 9: The documents and interviews that I obtained and have now

33:16 Speaker 9: shared with this task force show that the USSR launched

33:19 Speaker 9: what is almost certainly the largest UFO UAP investigation in

33:23 Speaker 9: the world. The first phase of that was an order

33:27 Speaker 9: was sent out to the entire USSR military empire that

33:31 Speaker 9: every unit you see anything strange in the sky, a

33:34 Speaker 9: craft or something unusual, you had to gather all the evidence,

33:39 Speaker 9: collect testimony from the witnesses, look for physical evidence, and

33:43 Speaker 9: all of that information went into one program at the

33:45 Speaker 9: Ministry Defense. Thousands and thousands of these reports came in.

33:50 Speaker 9: A lot of them were first routed to the KGB,

33:52 Speaker 9: but then back to another program that came after this

33:56 Speaker 9: collection effort called Thread three. And Thread three was an

33:59 Speaker 9: analysis program we have provided to the committee the documents

34:03 Speaker 9: of what they were trying to do, and essentially they

34:05 Speaker 9: were trying to build their own UFOs. They were using

34:08 Speaker 9: the information from their observations and studies to try to

34:11 Speaker 9: figure out that technology. The guy who was in charge

34:13 Speaker 9: of that program, Colonel Boros Sokolaw, told me that their

34:17 Speaker 9: goal was to basically develop technology that would be superior

34:21 Speaker 9: to anything we had based on what they learned from UFOs.

34:25 Speaker 1: Mister Nap, just in the name of time, my understanding,

34:28 Speaker 1: did you have anything you wanted to submit for Congress

34:31 Speaker 1: to see in this committee?

34:32 Speaker 9: I have submitted those documents.

34:34 Speaker 1: There like to play any videos? Do you have a

34:37 Speaker 1: video that you would like to play?

34:38 Speaker 9: I don't think it's for me to play. Yeah, Alexander's video, Okay,

34:45 Speaker 9: you can play it. He could narrate it, Okay.

34:48 Speaker 1: In the name of showing that video to everyone on

34:50 Speaker 1: the task, cose we'd like to play that video at

34:52 Speaker 1: this time.

35:00 Speaker 10: H m hm.

35:05 Speaker 11: M Jazz surprised.

35:28 Speaker 12: That that ship took off earlier.

35:36 Speaker 1: If we can get rid of the audio real quick,

35:40 Speaker 1: mister Wiggans and mister Napple'll get back to what that

35:42 Speaker 1: video was in a moment. But we just want to

35:44 Speaker 1: make sure that it was entered into the record as

35:46 Speaker 1: well as all the documents. Those will be able to

35:48 Speaker 1: be publicly found for everyone in the country to view

35:51 Speaker 1: if we could. Mister Napple will continue on the line

35:53 Speaker 1: of questioning, but I'm gonna move on to mister Borland's

35:54 Speaker 1: opening state lines.

35:59 Speaker 10: Good morning, member of the task force in the Committee,

36:01 Speaker 10: I would like to express my gratitude for being invited

36:04 Speaker 10: to testify to the current task force created under the

36:06 Speaker 10: People's Chamber in the American public. As an American citizen, veteran,

36:11 Speaker 10: and intelligence community professional, it is an honor and a

36:14 Speaker 10: privilege to serve under oath before you on behalf of

36:17 Speaker 10: our country. I speak for myself in no former agency

36:20 Speaker 10: or company I have been previously affiliated with. My name

36:24 Speaker 10: is Dylan Borland, a former one N one geospatial intelligence

36:28 Speaker 10: specialist for the United States Air Force and an active

36:30 Speaker 10: duty and listic capacity from twenty ten to twenty thirteen.

36:34 Speaker 10: I've also been employed with BAE Systems and Intrepid Solutions

36:37 Speaker 10: as a senior analyst expert in analyzing video, radar and

36:41 Speaker 10: advance electro optical imagery for official identification of aerial order

36:45 Speaker 10: of battle, as well as Naval and Ground Order of Battle.

36:49 Speaker 10: I'm a federal whistleblower, having testified to both the ICIG

36:53 Speaker 10: and EROW with direct firsthand knowledge of and experience with

36:56 Speaker 10: craft and technologies that are not ours and are reportedly

36:59 Speaker 10: operated without congressional oversight. Because of my direct knowledge of

37:04 Speaker 10: the reality of certain legacy UAP programs, my professional career

37:08 Speaker 10: was deliberately obstructed, and I have endured sustained reprisals from

37:13 Speaker 10: government agencies for over a decade. From twenty eleven to

37:17 Speaker 10: twenty thirteen, I was stationed at Langley Air Force based Virginia,

37:20 Speaker 10: conducting twenty four hour operations via Mandon non mandarial vehicles

37:24 Speaker 10: for Special Operations Forces in the Global War on Terror.

37:28 Speaker 10: During the summer of twenty twelve, my team was on

37:30 Speaker 10: standby for weather and I returned to my barracks on base,

37:33 Speaker 10: and at approximately zero one thirty I saw an approximately

37:36 Speaker 10: one hundred foot equilateral triangle take off from near the

37:39 Speaker 10: NASA hangar on the base. The craft interfere with my telephone,

37:45 Speaker 10: did not have any sound, and the material it was

37:47 Speaker 10: made of appeared fluid or dynamic. I was under this

37:51 Speaker 10: triangular craft for a few minutes and then it rapidly

37:54 Speaker 10: ascended to commercial jet level in seconds, displaying zero connected

37:57 Speaker 10: disturbing sound or wind displacement. Some years after that experience,

38:02 Speaker 10: I was further exposed to classified information from the UAP

38:05 Speaker 10: Legacy Crash Retrieval Program through a sensitive position I held

38:08 Speaker 10: within a special access program. During this time, intelligence officers

38:12 Speaker 10: approached me and fear for their own careers, citing misconduct

38:15 Speaker 10: within these programs and similar retaliation that I was already

38:19 Speaker 10: enduring at this time. These issues include medical malpractice committed

38:24 Speaker 10: by veterans affairs staff, denial of work I performed while

38:27 Speaker 10: listening in the United States Air Force Forge to manipulated

38:30 Speaker 10: employment documents, workplace harassment including colleagues being directed to not

38:34 Speaker 10: speak with me, manipulation of my security clearance by certain agencies, blocking, delaying,

38:39 Speaker 10: and ultimately removing my ability to be employed within the IC.

38:45 Speaker 10: The retaliation I faced, and the retaliation against individuals I

38:48 Speaker 10: know who worked in these programs is what convinced me

38:50 Speaker 10: in March twenty twenty three to become a whistleblower. I

38:53 Speaker 10: came forward out of concern for people's lives and to

38:56 Speaker 10: ensure I did everything I could to let our elected

38:58 Speaker 10: representatives know the truth about what is really happening in

39:01 Speaker 10: the Executive Branch. At the end of March twenty twenty three,

39:05 Speaker 10: I agreed to meet with ARROW following the suggestion of

39:08 Speaker 10: other federal officials, believing it was what our nation required

39:12 Speaker 10: of me. I had reservations with ARROW due to assessments

39:15 Speaker 10: they were reporting publicly at the time as a misrepresentation

39:18 Speaker 10: of the truth. Because of these concerns, I did not

39:22 Speaker 10: share sources and methods information in order to protect current

39:25 Speaker 10: and formal federal personal personnel who had firsthand exposure to

39:28 Speaker 10: technologies of unknown origin. I did not want anyone to

39:31 Speaker 10: face further retaliation beyond what they had already endured. An Unfortunately,

39:35 Speaker 10: a staff member ended up getting in some trouble because

39:40 Speaker 10: of that. After David Grush testified under OATH in the

39:44 Speaker 10: summer of twenty twenty three and provided historic disclosure, I

39:47 Speaker 10: was then asked to go to the ICIG and did

39:49 Speaker 10: so in August twenty twenty three. It was very clear

39:52 Speaker 10: early on during my intake interview, which was video recorded

39:55 Speaker 10: under OATH, that the objective was to solely assess how

39:58 Speaker 10: much I know, and not move forward with an investigation

40:01 Speaker 10: with new information. I provided them. The aftermath of that

40:05 Speaker 10: IG complane still troubles me to this day. Since my

40:09 Speaker 10: ICIG can plane, I've been prevented from assuming prior employment

40:12 Speaker 10: and can confirm I still blacklisted from certain agencies within

40:15 Speaker 10: the intelligence community. In addition, multiple agencies attempted phishing attacks

40:20 Speaker 10: to assess what I had divulged to the Inspector General,

40:23 Speaker 10: including being asked to disclose details of my ICIG complaint

40:26 Speaker 10: during a CI polygraph or a position unrelated to UFO

40:29 Speaker 10: UAP matters as recently as November twenty twenty four. As

40:34 Speaker 10: I sit before you today, I and many other whistleblowers

40:36 Speaker 10: have no job prospects, no foreseeable professional future in a

40:40 Speaker 10: nation every single one of us came forward to defend.

40:44 Speaker 10: Numerous individuals have come forward in various ways to reveal

40:47 Speaker 10: the truth of the UAP reality as patriots and defenders

40:50 Speaker 10: of our nation, Yet many feel discarded, isolated, hopeless, separated

40:54 Speaker 10: from the country they serve. Efforts to rectify this situation

40:58 Speaker 10: for all whistleblowers have been difficult and troubling, And to

41:01 Speaker 10: my fellow whistleblowers and officials who know this information, I

41:06 Speaker 10: offer you my apology, something that I have never gotten,

41:10 Speaker 10: and I'm giving it to you. I swore an oath

41:13 Speaker 10: to the Constitution of the United States and note that

41:15 Speaker 10: demand's truth and transparency for our democratic republic to function.

41:20 Speaker 10: Each day these truths remain hidden from our citizens, humanity

41:23 Speaker 10: drifts further from the principles our nation was founded to uphold.

41:28 Speaker 10: Each day victims of crimes committed by agencies and companies.

41:31 Speaker 10: Maintaining this secrecy or deny justice, is another day our

41:34 Speaker 10: constitution is shredded. In twenty twenty three, patriots provided this

41:39 Speaker 10: committee in the Executive Branch with undeniable proof of the

41:41 Speaker 10: UAP reality, and I commend your continued commitment. The future

41:46 Speaker 10: of humanity is one which we either travel to the

41:49 Speaker 10: stars or aggress to the Stone age with this technology.

41:52 Speaker 10: My career has been to deliver critical information to decision makers.

41:57 Speaker 10: Your role, as elected by your representatives is to act

42:01 Speaker 10: on it. The time to act is now.

42:04 Speaker 1: Thank you, mister Borland. Thank you for your service to

42:26 Speaker 1: our country, and we appreciate you and we are sorry

42:29 Speaker 1: about how you've been treated and we will make sure

42:31 Speaker 1: that we try to rectify that situation. Thank you, mister Spielberger.

42:35 Speaker 1: Please your opening.

42:36 Speaker 13: Remarks Chairwoman Luna, Ranking Member Crockett, and task Force members,

42:42 Speaker 13: thank you for the opportunity to testify here today about

42:45 Speaker 13: the importance of strengthening whistleblower protections, especially in the context

42:49 Speaker 13: of national security. I am a senior policy counsel at

42:53 Speaker 13: the Project Down Government Oversight, a non partisan, independent watchdog

42:57 Speaker 13: organization that investigates and expose is waste, corruption, abuse of power,

43:02 Speaker 13: and when the government fails to serve the public or

43:05 Speaker 13: silences those who report wrongdoing. Whistleblowers are the first line

43:09 Speaker 13: of defense to root out waste, fraud, abuse of power,

43:12 Speaker 13: and corruption in our government. Congress relies on whistleblowers so

43:16 Speaker 13: that it can fully exercise its oversight and legislative authorities.

43:21 Speaker 13: It's understandable that former presidents of both parties have often

43:25 Speaker 13: taken a hostile approach toward whistleblowers. Their disclosures can embarrass

43:29 Speaker 13: the president and their political party, or even lead to.

43:32 Speaker 14: A national scandal.

43:34 Speaker 13: But whistleblowers continue to play a vital role during both

43:37 Speaker 13: democratic and Republican administrations. They help Congress and the public

43:42 Speaker 13: identify and understand what government corruption looks like. Their disclosures

43:47 Speaker 13: fuel investigations and allow us to address wrongdoing and hold

43:51 Speaker 13: those responsible to account. That's why historically there's been a

43:55 Speaker 13: strong bipartisan consensus in Congress to support and protect whistles.

44:01 Speaker 13: Doing so protects the country and ensures our government is

44:04 Speaker 13: more responsive and accountable to the people. National security whistle

44:09 Speaker 13: blowing in particular is a tradition going back to the

44:12 Speaker 13: founding of our country, and over time, national security whistleblowers

44:16 Speaker 13: and their disclosures have impacted some of the most fundamental

44:20 Speaker 13: issues and questions about how we wish to be governed

44:23 Speaker 13: and how our government can better serve its people. From

44:26 Speaker 13: the role the US plays around the world, to holding

44:29 Speaker 13: powerful actors accountable, government ethics and transparency, human rights and

44:34 Speaker 13: civil liberties, executive branch authority, First Amendment, freedoms of speech

44:38 Speaker 13: and dissent, freedom of the press, and the public's interest

44:42 Speaker 13: and right to know. Despite this invaluable public service, blowing

44:46 Speaker 13: the whistle comes at great personal risk. Whistleblowers risk losing

44:50 Speaker 13: their jobs, careers, livelihoods, and reputations. They can face retaliatory investigations, lawsuits,

44:57 Speaker 13: and even serious criminal charges. And they can endure deep mental, emotional,

45:03 Speaker 13: and psychological harm. All of that risk to speak the

45:07 Speaker 13: truth to ensure that agencies fulfill their core missions and

45:10 Speaker 13: that they serve the best interests of the people. Those

45:14 Speaker 13: who retaliate against whistleblowers don't just violate their legal rights,

45:18 Speaker 13: they inflict real harm on our government and betray the

45:21 Speaker 13: public's trust. Targeting whistleblowers instead of the corruption they expose

45:26 Speaker 13: wastes agency resources and further allows that corruption.

45:30 Speaker 14: To continue unaddressed.

45:32 Speaker 13: It can instill a chilling effect across an agency, fostering

45:35 Speaker 13: a climate of fear and distrust, quieting dissent and try speech,

45:40 Speaker 13: and deterring potential whistleblowers from coming forward in the future.

45:46 Speaker 13: Whistleblowers are often some of the most dedicated and principled

45:50 Speaker 13: public servants we have because of their willingness to put

45:53 Speaker 13: themselves on the line to do what's right, and Congress

45:56 Speaker 13: has historically supported them, again on a bipartisan basis, But unfortunately,

46:01 Speaker 13: whistleblowing has increasingly become more politicized, with support for whistleblowers

46:07 Speaker 13: often hinging on which party is in power and which

46:10 Speaker 13: party is politically inconvenienced by the misconduct being exposed. But

46:15 Speaker 13: to be clear, targeting whistleblowers individually risks undermining whistleblowing period.

46:22 Speaker 13: Pogo advises members of Congress on both sides of the

46:25 Speaker 13: aisle to focus on the evidence, not the individual.

46:29 Speaker 14: We will always need whistleblowers to achieve.

46:31 Speaker 13: The government that best serves its people, because when people

46:34 Speaker 13: of conscience, integrity, and good character refuse to speak up

46:39 Speaker 13: out of fear, complacency, or self preservation and leave corruption

46:43 Speaker 13: to fester behind closed doors, that is probably the most

46:47 Speaker 13: dangerous risk of all. If we are serious about increasing

46:51 Speaker 13: government transparency and restoring the public's trust, we need public

46:55 Speaker 13: servants committed to the truth. Whistleblowers need safe and effective

46:59 Speaker 13: channels to make lawful disclosures. They need stronger protections against retaliation,

47:04 Speaker 13: and when they do face retaliation, they need a fair

47:07 Speaker 13: shot to be made.

47:08 Speaker 14: Whole.

47:09 Speaker 13: Congress has made strides to pass whistleblower legislation, and these

47:13 Speaker 13: laws need to be updated and expanded so that whistleblowers

47:16 Speaker 13: truly receive the protections they need, retaliators are held accountable,

47:21 Speaker 13: and we can achieve the type of government that people deserve.

47:25 Speaker 13: We strongly urge Congress to continue its historic tradition of

47:28 Speaker 13: championing the rights and protections of all whistleblowers. Thank you,

47:33 Speaker 13: again for the opportunity to testify here this morning. Pogo

47:36 Speaker 13: is committed to working with you and the Oversight Committee

47:38 Speaker 13: to address these critical issues. I look forward to any questions.

47:42 Speaker 1: Thank you, sir very much. Additionally, without objection, the Additionally,

47:50 Speaker 1: without objection, the following members are waved onto the task

47:53 Speaker 1: Force for the purpose of questioning witnesses at today's hearing,

47:56 Speaker 1: Representative Perry of Pennsylvania and Representative Gothman of Wisconsin. Sorry

48:04 Speaker 1: own a Representative bigs from Arizon already got you, but yeah,

48:07 Speaker 1: we're good with out objections. So ordered, I now recognize

48:10 Speaker 1: myself for five minutes of questioning. Also as my friend

48:16 Speaker 1: mister Mosquwitz might have to go, would you like to

48:19 Speaker 1: go now? Okay, all right, mister Borland. In your testimony,

48:24 Speaker 1: you describe witnessing large Trangler craft while station at Langley

48:27 Speaker 1: Air Force Base in twenty twelve. Can you explain what

48:30 Speaker 1: you observed in terms of size, behavior and why you're

48:33 Speaker 1: confident it was not conventional technology?

48:36 Speaker 10: Great question, ma'am. So on barracks on the base. I

48:39 Speaker 10: lived in the barracks. There was a little smoke hit outside.

48:42 Speaker 10: I was there on the telephone, and what came across

48:46 Speaker 10: to the flight line, and I see a white light

48:49 Speaker 10: pop up and stop about one hundred feet in the air.

48:51 Speaker 10: I thought it was a weather balloon. I've seen tests

48:54 Speaker 10: from there before a weeknight. You know, normal thing, not surprising.

48:59 Speaker 10: I actually finished my cigarette and I began walking up

49:02 Speaker 10: towards the flight line. There is a track, and because

49:05 Speaker 10: I was on three months of night work, I began

49:08 Speaker 10: I would walk the track of night when we were

49:10 Speaker 10: weather down. And as I began walking towards the light,

49:14 Speaker 10: towards the flight line and the track, the light then

49:17 Speaker 10: flies across the base, across the flight line, and as

49:19 Speaker 10: it flies to me, a triangle manifests around the light.

49:24 Speaker 10: I can't tell you if it's active camouflage. I can't

49:26 Speaker 10: tell you if it appeared around the light, but I

49:28 Speaker 10: can tell you that it was a white light and

49:31 Speaker 10: then it was a triangle. It stopped about one hundred

49:34 Speaker 10: feet in front of me and approximately one hundred feet

49:36 Speaker 10: above me. My telephone got extremely hot, completely froze dead.

49:43 Speaker 10: I remember how thick it was. It was between one

49:45 Speaker 10: to two story stick equilateral triangle. I could never see

49:49 Speaker 10: the top of it, and the edges were ninety ninety

49:52 Speaker 10: degrees there were four lights in total, one light on

49:57 Speaker 10: each corner and a larger light in the center two

50:00 Speaker 10: to three times the size of the corner lights. But

50:03 Speaker 10: what was really odd was the outside. The best way

50:07 Speaker 10: to describe it is like looking at a James Webb

50:10 Speaker 10: telescope picture where you have the colors and then the

50:13 Speaker 10: black background. So the craft itself was this black metallic

50:18 Speaker 10: flight paint, but on top of the craft was this

50:21 Speaker 10: gold lava plasma, some tape of fluid going over and

50:26 Speaker 10: around the craft. I'm under this for about two to

50:29 Speaker 10: three minutes, and then the center light flashes two to

50:33 Speaker 10: three times no sound, immediately shoots up to commercial jet

50:37 Speaker 10: level minimum in my opinion, and I immediately feel static

50:42 Speaker 10: electricity all over my body, and then I smell the

50:44 Speaker 10: smell of after a thunderstorm or lightning storm, that really

50:48 Speaker 10: strong summer thunderstorm smell gets up to flight level. I'm

50:53 Speaker 10: trying to get my phone reset and I can only

50:56 Speaker 10: see the center light at this point. If I didn't

50:58 Speaker 10: actually see it take off, I would I thought it

51:00 Speaker 10: was a star. And then it hovers up there and

51:04 Speaker 10: it begins to slowly movedu east out over the Atlantic Ocean.

51:08 Speaker 10: I finally got my phone reset. The entire thing was

51:10 Speaker 10: about from the time I saw the light pop up

51:12 Speaker 10: near the hangar until it took off out over the

51:15 Speaker 10: ocean was about fifteen minutes.

51:18 Speaker 1: And following up to that question, after you disclose this

51:21 Speaker 1: information to the intelligence community, inspector general your subject to

51:24 Speaker 1: phishing attempts and job blacklisting. How widespread do you think

51:28 Speaker 1: this is across the intelligence community for those who raise

51:31 Speaker 1: concerns regarding UP programs.

51:33 Speaker 10: It's a difficult question to answer. I think prior to

51:36 Speaker 10: David Grush and people beginning this process of bringing people

51:40 Speaker 10: into awareness of the reality of these programs and certain

51:45 Speaker 10: things people have witnessed, probably extremely widespread. I think today

51:50 Speaker 10: there's still an issue, but because people are able to

51:54 Speaker 10: come before you and people are speaking out, I think

51:56 Speaker 10: it has been somewhat less I would hope though, that

52:02 Speaker 10: people would because if this goes back into closed doors,

52:05 Speaker 10: this is going to get really ugly.

52:07 Speaker 1: What type of behavior have you witnessed from former AERO

52:10 Speaker 1: director Sean Kylpatrick as well as his staff and relate

52:13 Speaker 1: to this information you provided to them. Did they ever

52:16 Speaker 1: try to classify this information as non human technology?

52:20 Speaker 10: Good question. The problem with this is that I know

52:24 Speaker 10: what I experienced firsthand. I know other things. I think

52:28 Speaker 10: the staff at ERA that I met with in March

52:30 Speaker 10: of twenty twenty three, I think they were good people

52:33 Speaker 10: doing the job they were told to do. I did

52:36 Speaker 10: not meet with Kirkpatrick. He was either not president or

52:40 Speaker 10: did not want to meet me that day. However, they

52:42 Speaker 10: did classify information about the reality of this subject, and

52:51 Speaker 10: it was very concerning because in my era MFR they

52:55 Speaker 10: had actually referenced a former staff member that was the

52:59 Speaker 10: one who told me to go there, and they probably

53:02 Speaker 10: shouldn't have done that.

53:03 Speaker 1: And real quick before my time is up, and we

53:05 Speaker 1: might go to a second runt of question, just so

53:07 Speaker 1: you're all aware, how important, given everything that you've seen

53:10 Speaker 1: in experience is the UAP Disclosure Act of twenty twenty

53:13 Speaker 1: five and restoring both public accountability and trust I.

53:17 Speaker 10: Think very important. I would hope though that the seven

53:21 Speaker 10: year window could be shrunk my opinion, but very important.

53:25 Speaker 10: The truth needs to be known.

53:27 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. I now recognize Jared Mosquet of Florida.

53:33 Speaker 15: Thank you, Madame chairwoman. Thank you for allowing me to

53:36 Speaker 15: wave on to the committee. I remember, you know, the

53:41 Speaker 15: last committee when we had a bunch of former military

53:46 Speaker 15: personnel folks that either served on bases, were pilots, or

53:50 Speaker 15: were in different programs experiencing knowledge, it made me recognize

53:56 Speaker 15: that the narrative has changed. Right, it's politically convenient for

54:02 Speaker 15: the government if you all weren't military folks and suits.

54:07 Speaker 15: It would be much better if you pulled up and

54:09 Speaker 15: win the bags and we're wearing hats and so the

54:14 Speaker 15: picture of this, because that's important for the American people

54:16 Speaker 15: on how you tell a story, what the message looks like,

54:19 Speaker 15: and who the messenger is. So this is now the

54:23 Speaker 15: second or third committee where we have former military folks

54:27 Speaker 15: with impeccable records, with information and knowledge, and it's definitely

54:32 Speaker 15: clear on a bipartisan basis that we have to protect

54:34 Speaker 15: our whistleblowers.

54:35 Speaker 12: It's no doubt.

54:37 Speaker 15: And in a day in which it's really hard to

54:40 Speaker 15: tell what's true or not from a political standpoint, and

54:44 Speaker 15: so I don't really know what is true. I don't

54:48 Speaker 15: know on this subject, but I do know when we're

54:50 Speaker 15: being lied to, and we are definitely being lied to.

54:54 Speaker 15: There's just no doubt about that. Mister Wiggins. I want

54:58 Speaker 15: to talk to you. I find your background and testimony compelling.

55:03 Speaker 12: When you first saw.

55:06 Speaker 15: What you were looking at? What you were looking at,

55:08 Speaker 15: what were your first thoughts.

55:13 Speaker 7: My first thoughts were, I think everything that I was

55:18 Speaker 7: told and taught as a kid and a growing, growing

55:21 Speaker 7: adult no longer uh, you know, was applicable. If I'm

55:25 Speaker 7: able to see something that I thought defies gravity in

55:27 Speaker 7: such a way, then what else could be possible?

55:30 Speaker 14: That was my first thoughts.

55:31 Speaker 15: So did you did you think what you were looking

55:33 Speaker 15: at was a weapons program that you were unaware of,

55:36 Speaker 15: or did you think what you were looking at was

55:38 Speaker 15: obviously some extraterrest serial piece of technology.

55:44 Speaker 7: I didn't. Neither one of those crossed my mind. It

55:47 Speaker 7: was just, how about now, what do you think it is?

55:50 Speaker 14: Now?

55:52 Speaker 7: I'm not the expert I think it. I want to

55:57 Speaker 7: be as skeptical as everyone else and just hope to

55:59 Speaker 7: know than from.

56:00 Speaker 15: Anyone in the US government tell you what you were

56:02 Speaker 15: looking at to try to dissuade you from what you

56:05 Speaker 15: thought it was.

56:06 Speaker 9: No.

56:06 Speaker 15: So, no one was like, oh, you know there was

56:09 Speaker 15: some anomaly with the technology.

56:10 Speaker 10: No one from the government did that.

56:12 Speaker 9: No one.

56:14 Speaker 15: How do you think you were treated when you reported

56:16 Speaker 15: this information or have talked about you know, the tic

56:20 Speaker 15: TAC video is well.

56:21 Speaker 9: Out there, it's well reported.

56:22 Speaker 14: How were you treated.

56:25 Speaker 7: I've I've had no pushback at all. I have haven't

56:30 Speaker 7: had anyone reach out to me or try to, you know,

56:33 Speaker 7: dissuade me in either direction militarily speaking. So I was

56:37 Speaker 7: treated fair, and I appreciate the Navy itself with assisting

56:42 Speaker 7: me with coming here to being able to testify.

56:44 Speaker 12: That's good.

56:44 Speaker 15: So what do you think the American people should take

56:47 Speaker 15: away from watching your video?

56:48 Speaker 1: Right?

56:49 Speaker 15: Because when we watch it, obviously, right, we've never seen

56:51 Speaker 15: anything like that. It defies what we know to be

56:54 Speaker 15: technologically possible. What are we supposed to think someone's lying

56:59 Speaker 15: about something, someone's hiding something? Right, that's not normal what

57:03 Speaker 15: you looked at.

57:05 Speaker 7: I think what the American people should think when seeing

57:08 Speaker 7: that video, along with others before me, is that there

57:13 Speaker 7: is something out there and we should know as the

57:16 Speaker 7: people what it.

57:17 Speaker 15: Is, right, and so let's eliminate possibilities. So they didn't

57:20 Speaker 15: come to you and say there was a technological error

57:22 Speaker 15: with what you were looking at, so we put that aside.

57:24 Speaker 10: Right, they didn't say it was broken.

57:26 Speaker 15: So we look at that and we see something, So

57:28 Speaker 15: it's either a weapons program being reverse engineered by our

57:32 Speaker 15: governments or other governments, or it's nobody's government and it's

57:36 Speaker 15: not from here, those are it? You agree with that assessment,

57:40 Speaker 15: I agree one of the other mister Borland, when you

57:45 Speaker 15: first experienced what you were looking at and you what.

57:51 Speaker 14: Did you do next?

57:52 Speaker 15: Like, what was your next step after it had passed

57:56 Speaker 15: and you were done?

57:58 Speaker 10: I actually kind of laughed myself and said, Okay, so

58:01 Speaker 10: this exists as well. Worked in enough programs, been exposed

58:05 Speaker 10: to enough that I was like, okay, so this is

58:06 Speaker 10: a real thing. I went back, watched the track, talked

58:11 Speaker 10: with a couple of my friends about it. I did

58:13 Speaker 10: talk with some of my co workers. One in particular,

58:16 Speaker 10: which I thought was a joke and it definitely wasn't,

58:19 Speaker 10: was like, you probably should never say this anybody. Uh,

58:22 Speaker 10: And then what happened to me happened?

58:25 Speaker 15: So what about you, mister? How do you pronounce your lasson?

58:35 Speaker 15: And sorry, I know I'm running out of time, Madam, chairman, chairwoman.

58:38 Speaker 15: So obviously your incident happened well before we could record

58:43 Speaker 15: things on cell phones and things of that nature. Right,

58:47 Speaker 15: how do you what did you do when you first

58:50 Speaker 15: experience because what you saw right. You saw it happen

58:54 Speaker 15: like right out of your base. Correct, So tell me

58:57 Speaker 15: what you did after you saw that? What was like

58:59 Speaker 15: your next and I want to hear how what your

59:01 Speaker 15: experience was.

59:02 Speaker 6: My next move. I went into my house after it left.

59:07 Speaker 6: I made sure no one had been abducted, and I

59:11 Speaker 6: picked up the landline. I called the Security Forces command center.

59:14 Speaker 6: I reported it. I requested that they give me a

59:17 Speaker 6: call back and make notifications up the chain of command.

59:21 Speaker 6: I got a call back in about fifteen minutes. They

59:24 Speaker 6: reported that the weather station reported no balloons or aircraft,

59:29 Speaker 6: nothing on radar, no aircraft inbound or outbound. So I

59:33 Speaker 6: got that notification, and then within the following day or two,

59:37 Speaker 6: me and the other witnesses wrote statements we prepared to report,

59:41 Speaker 6: and then we filed all that information.

59:43 Speaker 15: Madam sure, and thank you for your indulgence in my questioning,

59:46 Speaker 15: and thank you for continuing to lead on this subject.

59:50 Speaker 15: What do you and your friends think about it today?

59:54 Speaker 15: You all have talked about it, I mean, so what

59:56 Speaker 15: do you think about your experience as a collective group.

59:59 Speaker 10: That'll be my last question.

1:00:00 Speaker 6: I mean, we we've been talking about this for twenty years.

1:00:05 Speaker 6: We don't know what we saw. What we saw changed

1:00:08 Speaker 6: our lives and the way we think about everything. It

1:00:12 Speaker 6: was incredibly profound. The object I saw, I don't even

1:00:17 Speaker 6: know if it was an object.

1:00:18 Speaker 9: It was a it was a light.

1:00:19 Speaker 6: There was an orb It didn't look like a craft,

1:00:22 Speaker 6: but it did look solid.

1:00:24 Speaker 10: And that's what we talk about.

1:00:26 Speaker 6: We noticed the object, and this was a pattern across

1:00:29 Speaker 6: all the encounters. Someone would see a light, they would

1:00:32 Speaker 6: pay attention to the light that and then the object

1:00:37 Speaker 6: response it performs for you, and then they come down

1:00:41 Speaker 6: and they investigate you. So it's almost like they're curious.

1:00:45 Speaker 6: So that's the thing we primarily talk about. You know,

1:00:49 Speaker 6: why did it come after we noticed it? Maybe it

1:00:53 Speaker 6: noticed us after we noticed it.

1:00:57 Speaker 1: Wellized Representative Macee for five minutes.

1:01:03 Speaker 8: Thank you, Madam Charon.

1:01:04 Speaker 16: I want to thank all of our witnesses for being

1:01:06 Speaker 16: here today. Uh, mister Borland, I like to start with

1:01:10 Speaker 16: you and ask a few questions.

1:01:12 Speaker 8: Were there any other witnesses when you.

1:01:14 Speaker 16: Saw the equalateral triangle? Were there other witnesses that saw

1:01:16 Speaker 16: the same thing?

1:01:17 Speaker 10: Not to my knowledge, ma'am, at that point, the only

1:01:20 Speaker 10: people that would be awake is thus those of us

1:01:22 Speaker 10: that were doing operations for the g WATT and then

1:01:24 Speaker 10: security forces, so not to my knowledge.

1:01:27 Speaker 16: And do you think that, in your opinion that the

1:01:29 Speaker 16: equal Adul triangle was the US government's technology.

1:01:36 Speaker 10: I did once upon a time. But knowing what I

1:01:39 Speaker 10: know now, I'll have to answer that question. And a

1:01:42 Speaker 10: skiff probably I.

1:01:43 Speaker 16: Was good one of my ask questions you teased us.

1:01:45 Speaker 16: So knowing what you know now means what.

1:01:48 Speaker 10: I know enough to know that. If you want to

1:01:50 Speaker 10: answer to that question, go to Era. They had the answer.

1:01:54 Speaker 8: Do you think it was a foreign government?

1:01:56 Speaker 10: I do not know.

1:01:59 Speaker 8: And Aero is to be disclosing.

1:02:01 Speaker 16: The last time I was going to skip with arrow,

1:02:02 Speaker 16: they said they were going to be doing disclosures.

1:02:06 Speaker 8: Had they been doing much of that?

1:02:09 Speaker 10: I don't have an answer to you. For you, I

1:02:11 Speaker 10: don't know. I know what Aero reports publicly, and I

1:02:14 Speaker 10: know what I've been through.

1:02:15 Speaker 16: Yeah, and some of this stuff can be I think debunked.

1:02:20 Speaker 10: Right.

1:02:20 Speaker 16: There are sometimes there are weather balloons that look kind

1:02:22 Speaker 16: of a little funky, or drones or whatever deping on

1:02:25 Speaker 16: the angle direction speed, et cetera.

1:02:29 Speaker 8: Are you scared for your safety?

1:02:33 Speaker 10: That's a complicated question. So being here today, if I

1:02:37 Speaker 10: say the wrong word. Technically, I can be charged with espionage.

1:02:40 Speaker 10: Espionage is a death penalty. Whistle blowers have faced it.

1:02:43 Speaker 10: John Karaoku, for example, I am not scared for my

1:02:47 Speaker 10: physical safety in the sense of an agency or company

1:02:52 Speaker 10: coming to kill me. But I have no job. My

1:02:55 Speaker 10: career has been tarnished. You know, I'm unemployed, living of

1:03:00 Speaker 10: unemployment for the next three four weeks until that's gone.

1:03:03 Speaker 10: So it's a complicated question.

1:03:06 Speaker 16: Have there been stories leaked about your life to try

1:03:08 Speaker 16: to discredit you in the public eye.

1:03:11 Speaker 10: As of now, I don't know that. To mister, I

1:03:15 Speaker 10: am aware, Yes, ma'am.

1:03:16 Speaker 16: They leaked his medical private medical information, horrific things.

1:03:20 Speaker 10: It is.

1:03:22 Speaker 16: Okay you said in your testimony earlier with the chairwoman,

1:03:25 Speaker 16: you know other things.

1:03:28 Speaker 8: I guess it has to be mentioned in a skiff.

1:03:31 Speaker 10: It would other things. It would pending. I'm even legally

1:03:34 Speaker 10: allowed to speak on and the people in the room

1:03:36 Speaker 10: are even legally allowed to hear it.

1:03:38 Speaker 16: And is that would we need to know like the

1:03:41 Speaker 16: the compartmentalized word, like what the code word is, or

1:03:44 Speaker 16: the name of the program, the special access program, or

1:03:46 Speaker 16: even hear it.

1:03:47 Speaker 1: You have to know the word, right, I.

1:03:49 Speaker 10: Would see the name of it, right, I would suggest

1:03:51 Speaker 10: that to be asked to d and I dabbered and

1:03:54 Speaker 10: work with her for that because I can't give you

1:03:56 Speaker 10: the answer on what is the requires.

1:03:59 Speaker 8: This is what the US government does, right. They compartmentalize

1:04:01 Speaker 8: the information.

1:04:01 Speaker 16: At least certain people know the name of the program,

1:04:04 Speaker 16: and if you don't know it, you can't get the information.

1:04:06 Speaker 8: If you don't have the name, you don't know.

1:04:07 Speaker 1: What asked for.

1:04:08 Speaker 16: Even when we're reviewing the budget, we go into a skiff.

1:04:10 Speaker 16: We look at DoD budget and the budget of like

1:04:13 Speaker 16: black box programs, and we don't know what we're looking

1:04:15 Speaker 16: at because we don't know what these programs are. Is

1:04:18 Speaker 16: it a way for the government to hide from Congress

1:04:21 Speaker 16: what's really going on, where the money's going.

1:04:23 Speaker 10: In my opinion, absolutely yes.

1:04:26 Speaker 8: You mentioned too in your testimony earlier that quote.

1:04:29 Speaker 16: You went to speak with the government and they said

1:04:32 Speaker 16: they said somebody's name, a colleague name, and you said

1:04:34 Speaker 16: they shouldn't have mentioned that staff versus name.

1:04:37 Speaker 8: What does that mean?

1:04:38 Speaker 10: A Senate staffer who is the one who helped me

1:04:41 Speaker 10: get to Errow recommended me I go there. Gave me

1:04:43 Speaker 10: the email and the phone number because I could not

1:04:45 Speaker 10: find that information at all at the time. In fact,

1:04:48 Speaker 10: I believe you guys have talked about how Aero didn't

1:04:50 Speaker 10: even have a website for quite a period of time.

1:04:52 Speaker 16: We were told they were going to do disclosures, both

1:04:54 Speaker 16: what they've debunked, because some of it can be debunked,

1:04:56 Speaker 16: and then what they haven't been able to debunk, and

1:04:58 Speaker 16: to my knowledge, you know, hasn't been a thing. I

1:05:01 Speaker 16: only have one minute left, so mister Nap, we were

1:05:03 Speaker 16: definitely going to watch every documentary you guys have done.

1:05:07 Speaker 16: You and Jeremy have done a terrific job. It's I

1:05:09 Speaker 16: usually have more questions than I have answers. I think

1:05:11 Speaker 16: we all do, and you guys are doing a trific

1:05:12 Speaker 16: job to bring information to the public. Do you think

1:05:15 Speaker 16: that any of this is a syop by the US government?

1:05:19 Speaker 9: Entirely possible. I mean, our government and other governments have

1:05:23 Speaker 9: admitted that they've tried to use UFOs to cover secret projects,

1:05:27 Speaker 9: but I think they also do some reverse engineering of

1:05:30 Speaker 9: those claims. So years after people start seeing UFOs over

1:05:34 Speaker 9: Area fifty one, for example, they come up with the story,

1:05:37 Speaker 9: oh yeah, that was we planted that story. So I

1:05:41 Speaker 9: read in a major newspaper just a couple of weeks ago,

1:05:44 Speaker 9: they planted this story and Air Force colonel went out

1:05:46 Speaker 9: into the desert, went to a bar at Rachel and

1:05:50 Speaker 9: gave them some fake UFO photos and that's how the

1:05:52 Speaker 9: whole story about Area fifty one started, which is preposterous.

1:05:56 Speaker 16: Yeah, and I didn't even get to the crash retrieval

1:05:58 Speaker 16: program stuff yet, Miss chairwoman.

1:06:01 Speaker 8: There's just so much. Okay, thank you so much for

1:06:05 Speaker 8: your time today. Wish we had more time. Thank you,

1:06:06 Speaker 8: madam sure.

1:06:13 Speaker 1: I now recognize missus Crockett for five minutes.

1:06:17 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Madam chair and thank you so

1:06:19 Speaker 2: much to each of the witnesses that have come before

1:06:21 Speaker 2: us today. The federal government has had a long standing

1:06:27 Speaker 2: over classification issue in general. We all know that from

1:06:31 Speaker 2: the assassinations of MLK and Malcolm X to the Cointail

1:06:36 Speaker 2: pro and torture programs to now UAPs, the federal government

1:06:41 Speaker 2: has kept the American public in the dark about issues

1:06:44 Speaker 2: of immense public interest. The federal government has routinely made

1:06:48 Speaker 2: excuses for failing to provide transparency to the public, the

1:06:51 Speaker 2: most common of which is national security concerns. Mister Spielberger,

1:06:56 Speaker 2: can you provide an example of when national security was

1:07:00 Speaker 2: inappropriately used as a pretext for classification.

1:07:06 Speaker 13: Congresswoman, Probably one of the most infamous examples of that

1:07:10 Speaker 13: is the nine to eleven Commission that found that overclassification

1:07:14 Speaker 13: was a key factor in the failure to adequately prevent

1:07:18 Speaker 13: the attacks of that day.

1:07:22 Speaker 2: In addition to that, what lessons from these oversight failures

1:07:25 Speaker 2: should guide Congress in approaching UAP oversight?

1:07:32 Speaker 13: Generally speaking, we would advise this Congress to ensure that

1:07:38 Speaker 13: agencies adopt general policy in favor of disclosure instead of

1:07:44 Speaker 13: a knee jerk needing to overclassify information and documents. We

1:07:50 Speaker 13: should ensure that when information is classified or deemed sensitive,

1:07:55 Speaker 13: it's only for legitimate national security and privacy concerns. And

1:08:00 Speaker 13: we would recommend adding additional factors to the considerations of

1:08:05 Speaker 13: cost value, and certainly to the extent that it's critical

1:08:11 Speaker 13: for the public interest and the public's right to know,

1:08:14 Speaker 13: especially when we are talking about these very serious national

1:08:19 Speaker 13: security concerns and implications.

1:08:21 Speaker 2: Can you speak to how whistleblowers have historically helped Congress

1:08:26 Speaker 2: uncover the truth in other areas and how that might

1:08:29 Speaker 2: apply here.

1:08:33 Speaker 13: Absolutely so, Again, Congress has always relied on whistleblowers coming

1:08:38 Speaker 13: forward and making disclosures in a number of different issues

1:08:42 Speaker 13: across different agencies, anything from national security to airline safety,

1:08:51 Speaker 13: railway safety, environmental concerns, workplace health and safety, a lot

1:08:56 Speaker 13: of issues coming out of the COVID pandemic, for example.

1:09:00 Speaker 13: Whistleblowers have come forward with important disclosures on just about

1:09:06 Speaker 13: any critical issue affecting our government and affecting the American people,

1:09:10 Speaker 13: all of which have grave implications for the rights and

1:09:15 Speaker 13: protections that we have and how we live our lives

1:09:18 Speaker 13: in communities across the country.

1:09:21 Speaker 2: How important is it for whistleblowers to have strong protections

1:09:24 Speaker 2: when it comes to UAP related disclosures or disclosures of

1:09:28 Speaker 2: other topics of excessive government secrecy.

1:09:33 Speaker 14: It's absolutely vital.

1:09:34 Speaker 13: This has been one of the disappointing failures of doing

1:09:39 Speaker 13: this work of advocating for stronger whistleblower protections. We recognize

1:09:45 Speaker 13: the invaluable public service that brave whistleblowers play in coming

1:09:51 Speaker 13: forward again taking all of these risks that we've heard about,

1:09:55 Speaker 13: just to speak the truth, to get important information out

1:09:59 Speaker 13: in the public consciousness. But they can only do so

1:10:03 Speaker 13: when we have safe and secure channels for reporting when

1:10:08 Speaker 13: there is trust in the independence of agency watchdogs like

1:10:13 Speaker 13: Inspectors General, like the Office of Special Counsel, like the

1:10:16 Speaker 13: Merit Systems Protection Board, that play critical roles in investigating

1:10:20 Speaker 13: whistleblower disclosures and enforcing the protections of whistleblowers. All of

1:10:26 Speaker 13: that is essential to allow whistleblowers to keep coming forward

1:10:32 Speaker 13: and playing these incredibly important public roles.

1:10:36 Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

1:10:37 Speaker 2: Let me just say this, people look at Congress, especially now,

1:10:42 Speaker 2: and they see a lack of unity. They don't see

1:10:46 Speaker 2: the ability for us to come together really on much

1:10:48 Speaker 2: of anything. I will say that I do applaud the

1:10:52 Speaker 2: chairwoman and the work of this committee because for once

1:10:56 Speaker 2: I feel like we are focusing on governing, which should

1:10:59 Speaker 2: be about transparency. The reality is that we cause more

1:11:03 Speaker 2: harm than good when we allow a lack of transparency

1:11:08 Speaker 2: to fester. It allows for all types of conspiracy theories

1:11:13 Speaker 2: instead of us actually making the investments that we need

1:11:15 Speaker 2: to make to get the information and actually provide it

1:11:19 Speaker 2: to the American people. The reason that I wanted to

1:11:22 Speaker 2: focus on making sure that we answer some questions, specifically

1:11:26 Speaker 2: around the protections of those that are willing to come forward,

1:11:30 Speaker 2: is because the only way that we can make this

1:11:32 Speaker 2: government actually work for all of us is if no

1:11:36 Speaker 2: matter where you are in this federal government, you feel

1:11:39 Speaker 2: as if you are safe when you come forward with

1:11:42 Speaker 2: information of any issue. And so I do want to

1:11:47 Speaker 2: thank you for all of your stories. The reality is

1:11:50 Speaker 2: that we only get five minutes, and the vast majority

1:11:54 Speaker 2: of everything that you have to say cannot be contextualized

1:11:58 Speaker 2: within five minutes. But I know that my colleagues are

1:12:01 Speaker 2: going to get to kind of pulling some more of

1:12:03 Speaker 2: that out. But again, I really just want to thank

1:12:06 Speaker 2: you for your courage in this moment, and thank you

1:12:08 Speaker 2: for your service to our country.

1:12:17 Speaker 1: I now recognize mister Burchett from Tennessee for five minutes.

1:12:21 Speaker 17: Thank you, Chair Lady, and thank you Ranking Member Crockett.

1:12:27 Speaker 17: I see a lot of friends out there, and I

1:12:29 Speaker 17: see a couple of enemies, so I'll remember that.

1:12:34 Speaker 14: But it's a pleasure being here.

1:12:35 Speaker 17: I want to remind people too, this thing is an

1:12:37 Speaker 17: ongoing deal. We're not going to get this overnight. We've

1:12:40 Speaker 17: been fighting this battle, some of y'all for thirty years

1:12:44 Speaker 17: and maybe longer. I hope we just keep focused on

1:12:49 Speaker 17: what we're trying to get to as total disclosure. We

1:12:52 Speaker 17: get a little wrapped up in a lot of things,

1:12:54 Speaker 17: but the government has something and they need to turn

1:12:59 Speaker 17: it over to us. We pay their dad gum salary.

1:13:01 Speaker 17: You pay our salary, and you ought to get more

1:13:03 Speaker 17: out of us than you do. And that's what disgusts

1:13:06 Speaker 17: me about this whole thing. I think they're just trying

1:13:08 Speaker 17: to run the clock out on us. Really, they'll poke

1:13:13 Speaker 17: us a little, they'll make jokes to us and try

1:13:16 Speaker 17: to pull us off off the target. But I think

1:13:18 Speaker 17: we know where we're at, and that's why they're firing

1:13:21 Speaker 17: at us, because we are over the target. My first

1:13:24 Speaker 17: question is, mister Knapp, I recently introduced the UAP whistle

1:13:30 Speaker 17: Blower Protection Act to help provide whistle blower protection to

1:13:33 Speaker 17: federal personnel for just closing the use of federal taxpayer

1:13:37 Speaker 17: funds to investigate UFOs.

1:13:39 Speaker 14: I still don't want to.

1:13:40 Speaker 17: Say, UAPs, how can Congress further increase whistle blower protections.

1:13:49 Speaker 9: I think you've got to unleash the dogs and go

1:13:51 Speaker 9: track down the money and where it goes. Because a

1:13:53 Speaker 9: lot of this stuff has been moved out of government,

1:13:55 Speaker 9: as you know, Burchet, It's been given to private contracts

1:14:00 Speaker 9: who stashed it away. They've had it for so long

1:14:02 Speaker 9: that there's nobody left inside government or very few who

1:14:05 Speaker 9: know where it is.

1:14:07 Speaker 14: And they do that to keep us from FOYA. Correct.

1:14:09 Speaker 9: Yeah, it's going to keep it from FOYA. And I

1:14:12 Speaker 9: think that the contractors had this stuff for a very

1:14:15 Speaker 9: a very long time, set their own standards about who

1:14:18 Speaker 9: is allowed to know what, and it's a very small

1:14:21 Speaker 9: group that ever cracks that. I think Representative Luna has

1:14:25 Speaker 9: been looking at the use of classifications to hide things.

1:14:29 Speaker 9: I'm not sure that even this committee getting security clearances

1:14:34 Speaker 9: that should allow you to see this stuff would allow

1:14:36 Speaker 9: you to follow where it really goes.

1:14:38 Speaker 17: I worry about the people that are looking at it

1:14:40 Speaker 17: don't even know what they're looking at. I mean, it's

1:14:42 Speaker 17: gone through so many I mean since Roswell, for instance.

1:14:46 Speaker 17: I mean, you think there's nobody even allow that was

1:14:49 Speaker 17: around any of that stuff.

1:14:50 Speaker 9: So I don't think they've made much progress. From the

1:14:53 Speaker 9: people that I've talked to, I don't think they've made

1:14:55 Speaker 9: much progress. And learning that technology might have made some

1:14:58 Speaker 9: but you wonder, you know the implication tiktac oh, Yeah,

1:15:01 Speaker 9: that's ours with Fleu over Washington, d c and fifty two.

1:15:04 Speaker 9: Is that ours too? What are you going to break

1:15:06 Speaker 9: that out? You guys authorized tens of billions, hundreds of

1:15:09 Speaker 9: billions of dollars on weapons systems that can't do half

1:15:12 Speaker 9: of what we've seen you if UFOs do so, when

1:15:16 Speaker 9: did they break this out? If it's really a classified

1:15:19 Speaker 9: project could change the world. I don't think they've made

1:15:21 Speaker 9: much progress, and I think they've been lying to us

1:15:24 Speaker 9: and you and the rest of the world and they're

1:15:26 Speaker 9: still doing it.

1:15:27 Speaker 14: Yes, sir, I agree with you.

1:15:29 Speaker 17: How did you manage to obtain the classified Russian uIP

1:15:32 Speaker 17: documents and how did you get them back in the

1:15:35 Speaker 17: United States?

1:15:36 Speaker 9: Well, I met this Russian physicist who was in the

1:15:38 Speaker 9: United States.

1:15:40 Speaker 17: Now I want to clarify that I can't even take

1:15:43 Speaker 17: a thing of honey home on my airplane when I

1:15:46 Speaker 17: fly back to Tennessee. So I did something pretty dumb,

1:15:49 Speaker 17: and I'm bitter about it, but go ahead.

1:15:51 Speaker 9: I did something kind of dumb. I met with these

1:15:53 Speaker 9: officials who you know during that time period, glasgnows Perastroika,

1:15:57 Speaker 9: the Russians were trying to open up to the world,

1:15:59 Speaker 9: and I saw it as window of opportunity and it

1:16:01 Speaker 9: was and We were able to talk these folks into

1:16:04 Speaker 9: providing us information that otherwise we would never have seen.

1:16:07 Speaker 9: Some of that was classified. Found out that they only

1:16:11 Speaker 9: stamped the top pages of these documents that were classified.

1:16:14 Speaker 9: So I just removed them. I removed those pages and

1:16:17 Speaker 9: I carried them out, And if they'd caught me, I'd

1:16:19 Speaker 9: be in a gulag.

1:16:20 Speaker 14: Still.

1:16:20 Speaker 17: Yeah, we'd be saying what happened to George nat what

1:16:25 Speaker 17: happened to the Russians that came forward to you in

1:16:28 Speaker 17: nineteen ninety three, And were there any repercussions for them?

1:16:31 Speaker 9: Well, there were the first thing that happened when I

1:16:33 Speaker 9: talked about this. After getting back and going through the

1:16:36 Speaker 9: files and things and sifting through it, the Russian physicists

1:16:41 Speaker 9: who had helped us being introduced all these people wrote

1:16:44 Speaker 9: back and said there was a huge eruption that there

1:16:47 Speaker 9: was the real right, far autocratic forces that wanted a

1:16:54 Speaker 9: return of the USSR had really go after these guys.

1:16:58 Speaker 9: They described them as traders. Nikola Kapranoff, the physicist friend

1:17:02 Speaker 9: of mine, said, look, if this has happened five years earlier,

1:17:05 Speaker 9: we would be in prison. If it had happened ten

1:17:07 Speaker 9: years earlier, we would have been shot. Luckily, at that

1:17:10 Speaker 9: point Putin was not in power, But none of those

1:17:12 Speaker 9: people that we talked to on that trip in nineteen

1:17:15 Speaker 9: ninety three would ever talk to me again. I went

1:17:17 Speaker 9: back in nineteen ninety six, and it was like I

1:17:19 Speaker 9: had the plague. I spoke to different people, but they

1:17:22 Speaker 9: were scared, and eventually the story was spun where the

1:17:26 Speaker 9: Ministry Defense officials who gave us this information were described

1:17:31 Speaker 9: as ufologists who said there was nothing really significant to

1:17:34 Speaker 9: these files. They didn't really find anything a big deal.

1:17:38 Speaker 9: And I can tell you you'll see those files that

1:17:40 Speaker 9: I shared with you. They did find stuff. There was

1:17:42 Speaker 9: an incident in October nineteen eighty two over an ICBM

1:17:46 Speaker 9: base where UFOs popped up. Was observed. Over this base

1:17:49 Speaker 9: where the missiles are pointed at US, the United States.

1:17:53 Speaker 9: These UFOs perform incredible maneuvers. They split apart, they fused

1:17:57 Speaker 9: back together. They'd appear and disappear, and right at the

1:18:00 Speaker 9: end of this four hour period, the launch control codes

1:18:03 Speaker 9: for the icvms lit up. Something entered the correct codes.

1:18:08 Speaker 9: The missiles were fired up and ready to launch, and

1:18:10 Speaker 9: they could not shut it down. The Russian officers were panicking.

1:18:14 Speaker 9: The UFOs go, they disappeared, the launch control system goes

1:18:18 Speaker 9: back to normal. Colonel Sokolov and his team came in,

1:18:20 Speaker 9: took the thing apart. Could not figure out what it was.

1:18:23 Speaker 9: It wasn't a power surge or EMPs or some of

1:18:25 Speaker 9: the ballooney excuses that our country has given for similar

1:18:29 Speaker 9: events involving our nuclear missiles. They thought it was a

1:18:32 Speaker 9: message from wherever the UFOs were from. And that's a

1:18:35 Speaker 9: chilling thing. I mean that was we were a couple

1:18:37 Speaker 9: of seconds away from World War three starting and the

1:18:39 Speaker 9: UFOs were responsible for it.

1:18:41 Speaker 17: All right, I'm out of time, but real quick, who

1:18:44 Speaker 17: are the contractors that had this material corporation?

1:18:47 Speaker 9: Well, one of them is Lockheed, And I'll tell you.

1:18:49 Speaker 9: I mean, you know, I'm not saying Lockheed's the bad guys.

1:18:51 Speaker 9: They're doing what they were asked to do. They have

1:18:53 Speaker 9: lied about this because that they're what they're supposed to do.

1:18:56 Speaker 9: But Lockheed would be one. There's a list I can

1:18:58 Speaker 9: give you, Congressman, some of the biglines, the usual suspects.

1:19:02 Speaker 17: Okay, thank you you're back, chair lady. Sorry for going over, George, I.

1:19:10 Speaker 1: Now recognized miss Bobert for five minutes.

1:19:13 Speaker 18: Thank you, Madam Chair Chief Wiggins, based on your training

1:19:17 Speaker 18: and operational experience, could the behavior that you witnessed a

1:19:21 Speaker 18: trans medium object vanishing without a sound be explained by

1:19:26 Speaker 18: any known technology that we possess or other governments possessed.

1:19:31 Speaker 12: It cannot.

1:19:33 Speaker 18: And has any government agency debriefed you or any of

1:19:37 Speaker 18: your shipmates regarding the e O I, R and radar

1:19:42 Speaker 18: confirmed u AP encounter aboard USS Jackson.

1:19:46 Speaker 19: No one.

1:19:48 Speaker 18: What was that encounter like when you brought that up?

1:19:51 Speaker 18: If you want to briefly summarize that, when when you

1:19:54 Speaker 18: brought that to their attention and then you were not

1:19:57 Speaker 18: provided any follow up? Who was told and what how

1:20:03 Speaker 18: did you feel when there was no contact back to you.

1:20:07 Speaker 7: As as far as the actual incident happening or at

1:20:10 Speaker 7: the reporting level, Uh, it was within the event happening.

1:20:16 Speaker 7: My duties are to report to the tactical action officer

1:20:19 Speaker 7: on watch while we're standing watched. So, uh, tactical action

1:20:22 Speaker 7: officer was there. I made my report. I've not had

1:20:27 Speaker 7: any discussion outside of that day. There's been no communication

1:20:32 Speaker 7: to me or requests from me, uh to you know,

1:20:36 Speaker 7: within side of the military. But speaking of that actual

1:20:41 Speaker 7: incident itself, once the report was made to the tactical

1:20:46 Speaker 7: Action officer. Uh, that's when I made the decision to

1:20:51 Speaker 7: ask the individual watchstandard that was controlling Sapphire to be

1:20:57 Speaker 7: able to slew into the location. And that's what you

1:20:59 Speaker 7: say seeing the video itself is when the watchstanderd is

1:21:06 Speaker 7: slewing in and kind of showing us what we're looking at.

1:21:09 Speaker 7: But outside of that, that's as far as the reporting

1:21:12 Speaker 7: went that I know of.

1:21:14 Speaker 1: Thank you, Chief. Just for the sake of time, mister A.

1:21:17 Speaker 18: Nussatelli, has Row, the Air Force or the FBI ever

1:21:20 Speaker 18: followed up with you personally about the Red Square event.

1:21:24 Speaker 6: I did have follow up by Arrow. Nothing with the

1:21:28 Speaker 6: Air Force. The Arrow Office updated me. I think at

1:21:34 Speaker 6: least two times. They let me know that they were

1:21:37 Speaker 6: unable to locate any records, that the records have been

1:21:40 Speaker 6: destroyed by the Air Force. The Air Force is destroying

1:21:43 Speaker 6: all their police records every three years on a schedule.

1:21:47 Speaker 18: So you were informed that these documents were destroyed.

1:21:50 Speaker 6: Well, I have a Freedom of Information Act from the

1:21:53 Speaker 6: Air Force to states clearly that they destroy all police

1:21:57 Speaker 6: records on a three year schedule.

1:21:58 Speaker 18: Okay, they were sitting on documentation destroyed it refused to

1:22:05 Speaker 18: question any of the lead investigators anything leading into this investigation.

1:22:13 Speaker 6: Yeah, basically they destroyed all the police records, so you

1:22:16 Speaker 6: couldn't even like call the Air Force and asked them

1:22:19 Speaker 6: if there was a vehicle accident in that timeframe. So

1:22:22 Speaker 6: that's a big problem. We're losing data in real time,

1:22:27 Speaker 6: so we'll never be able to go back in tryin.

1:22:29 Speaker 18: Our federal government has a history of destroying records. Thank you,

1:22:33 Speaker 18: Thank you very much, mister news to tell you, doctor Borlan,

1:22:36 Speaker 18: as a geospatial intelligence officer, have you seen classified data

1:22:41 Speaker 18: indicating UAPs operate in restricted US airspace and has that

1:22:46 Speaker 18: information been withheld from Congress?

1:22:50 Speaker 10: I have not in US airspace that is intelligence oversight,

1:22:54 Speaker 10: so I did not have domestic authorities.

1:22:57 Speaker 18: After filing your inspector General complet over retaliation inside the

1:23:01 Speaker 18: Pentagon's UAP office, did you receive any kind of protection

1:23:06 Speaker 18: or just more retaliation.

1:23:08 Speaker 10: Within the IG or the or aero man either arrow

1:23:13 Speaker 10: They went after the staff member and classified everything, shut

1:23:18 Speaker 10: that down the IG. To this day, I don't even

1:23:21 Speaker 10: know if my complaint's active. I know my attorney that

1:23:23 Speaker 10: represented me was very, very very concerned, and the best

1:23:27 Speaker 10: of my understanding, I was determined credible, not urgent.

1:23:31 Speaker 18: And do you think that that experience would suggest that

1:23:35 Speaker 18: the internal UAP investigations may may be compromised.

1:23:42 Speaker 14: Possibly.

1:23:43 Speaker 10: I mean, it's so hard because this goes back to

1:23:45 Speaker 10: people doing the job they're told to do, and very

1:23:48 Speaker 10: few people are going to want to give up their careers,

1:23:50 Speaker 10: twenty thirty year pension, give up get rid of their

1:23:52 Speaker 10: kids' healthcare, get rid of their house. It's it's possible.

1:23:58 Speaker 18: Yes, yes, thank you very much, Chuck Orland, mister Spielberger.

1:24:02 Speaker 18: Do national security whistleblowers currently have any external appeals processes

1:24:09 Speaker 18: to challenge retaliation or are they just stuck relying on

1:24:12 Speaker 18: the same agencies that they're accusing.

1:24:16 Speaker 13: Congress Woman, this is one of the biggest concerns that

1:24:20 Speaker 13: we at POGO have basically around the independence of investigations

1:24:25 Speaker 13: and accountability for retaliation. Basically, yes, national security whistleblowers have

1:24:31 Speaker 13: to rely on internal administrative processes that go through agency

1:24:36 Speaker 13: inspector generals. There are some differentiations, but the bottom line

1:24:41 Speaker 13: is that they are forced to rely on protection from

1:24:45 Speaker 13: the same agencies and people who they are alleging retaliated

1:24:49 Speaker 13: against them.

1:24:50 Speaker 18: Yes, well, I thank you all for your bravery. We

1:24:52 Speaker 18: are out of time here. Thank you so much for

1:24:54 Speaker 18: coming forward, and we will do everything that we can

1:24:56 Speaker 18: to ensure that you are all protected. Thank you for

1:24:59 Speaker 18: trying to truth and transparency to the American people.

1:25:02 Speaker 1: Adam Cherry Yield I now recognize mister Burlason for about

1:25:06 Speaker 1: five minutes.

1:25:07 Speaker 20: Thank you everyone. It takes such great courage to come forward,

1:25:10 Speaker 20: and we acknowledge that, and I hope that you see

1:25:12 Speaker 20: that we are taking that seriously and so very thankful

1:25:16 Speaker 20: for what you're doing today. I'm also very thankful for

1:25:20 Speaker 20: previous witnesses that have come forward. I see Matthew Brown

1:25:23 Speaker 20: in the audience. He courageously step forward and was as

1:25:26 Speaker 20: a as a witness. I encourage everybody to look and

1:25:30 Speaker 20: seek his his testimony. I want to thank the people

1:25:33 Speaker 20: that came in our first hearing, Ryan Graves, David Grush,

1:25:37 Speaker 20: David Fraver, and in our second hearing, Admiral Galadet, lou

1:25:43 Speaker 20: Elizondo and mister Gold and the many others that have

1:25:47 Speaker 20: come forward. We hear you, and it's time that we

1:25:50 Speaker 20: you know, enough is enough, It's time that we take action. Look,

1:25:54 Speaker 20: I'm not I'm not jumped to the conclusion that I

1:25:56 Speaker 20: believe that there are you know, aliens coming from another planet.

1:26:00 Speaker 20: But I'm open to that, and I think that it's

1:26:03 Speaker 20: my our responsibility, especially when we're seeing that we have

1:26:06 Speaker 20: a government that is blocking, actively blocking information from us.

1:26:10 Speaker 20: Just last night, I tried to get an amendment onto

1:26:14 Speaker 20: the National Events Authorization Act that fit in the germanenus

1:26:18 Speaker 20: of that bill to have UAP disclosure. And conveniently it

1:26:22 Speaker 20: was named non Germaine, mostly deemed by staff, not even

1:26:27 Speaker 20: an elected official. This is the kind of stuff that

1:26:30 Speaker 20: we repeatedly see. Last year, we were blocked by someone

1:26:34 Speaker 20: in House administration from being able to receive a full

1:26:38 Speaker 20: briefing from Arrow. So not an elected official, but someone

1:26:43 Speaker 20: in staff blocked us. And I've had it. Enough is enough?

1:26:48 Speaker 20: I want to queue up a video that I've been given,

1:26:52 Speaker 20: and as before it starts, I'm going to describe. This

1:26:55 Speaker 20: was taken October thirtieth of twenty twenty four. This video

1:26:59 Speaker 20: is of an MQ nine drone tracking an orb or

1:27:02 Speaker 20: this object off the coast of Yemen. You'll see that

1:27:07 Speaker 20: another m Q nine launched a hellfire missile that you

1:27:12 Speaker 20: cannot see that drone and so you'll and I'm not

1:27:16 Speaker 20: going to explain it to you. You'll see exactly what

1:27:19 Speaker 20: it does. This is when it zoomed out so you

1:27:54 Speaker 20: can still see it traveling.

1:27:59 Speaker 13: M hm.

1:28:03 Speaker 20: So, mister Knapp, do you have any have you heard about,

1:28:10 Speaker 20: you know, events like this occurring and what what what

1:28:13 Speaker 20: information might you have?

1:28:15 Speaker 9: I have heard about events like this. I have heard

1:28:18 Speaker 9: about this event. Jeremy Corbela and I talked about it

1:28:20 Speaker 9: in one of our episodes a while back. We did

1:28:22 Speaker 9: not have the video, though. There are servers where there's

1:28:27 Speaker 9: a whole bank of these kind of videos that Congress

1:28:30 Speaker 9: has not been allowed to see that public hasn't been

1:28:32 Speaker 9: allowed to see. Occasionally, some of that stuff gets out

1:28:34 Speaker 9: in the wild and it comes our way. It should

1:28:37 Speaker 9: be going to you. You know, the public should be

1:28:39 Speaker 9: seeing this stuff. And why you're not allowed to I

1:28:42 Speaker 9: don't know. But that's a hell fire missile smacking into

1:28:45 Speaker 9: that UFO and just bounced right off and it kept going.

1:28:49 Speaker 20: It kept going, and it looks like the debris was

1:28:51 Speaker 20: taken with it.

1:28:52 Speaker 9: Yeah, what what the hell is that? What?

1:28:54 Speaker 20: So again, I'm not going to speculate what it is,

1:28:56 Speaker 20: but the question is, what, you know, why are we

1:29:00 Speaker 20: being blocked from this information consistently. I want to ask

1:29:04 Speaker 20: this just a question, how in the world this is

1:29:07 Speaker 20: the document I want to enter this in for the record,

1:29:09 Speaker 20: if it hasn't already been entered, Madam Chair the documentary

1:29:13 Speaker 20: provided on thread three. This is a huge file. How

1:29:18 Speaker 20: in the world did you smuggle this out of Russia

1:29:21 Speaker 20: carefully in your socks?

1:29:24 Speaker 9: And I don't think I want to be really specific

1:29:26 Speaker 9: about it because I might have to go back there

1:29:27 Speaker 9: and get some more sometime, although now I'd be crazy

1:29:31 Speaker 9: to do that. Well, I again, I took the top

1:29:34 Speaker 9: pages off that were stamped with the security signature and

1:29:38 Speaker 9: I carried them out on my person, But the rest

1:29:40 Speaker 9: of them I just threw in my suitcase and threw

1:29:43 Speaker 9: some cavia in there as a distraction as well, and

1:29:46 Speaker 9: hope for the best. Otherwise I'd be a citizen of

1:29:48 Speaker 9: Siberia right now.

1:29:51 Speaker 20: And you had you reported James Lakatski came to you

1:29:57 Speaker 20: with government possession of NHI craft and how they ultimately

1:30:01 Speaker 20: gained entry. Can you testify to the veracity of that claim?

1:30:05 Speaker 9: Doctor Lekatski is an honorable man who served most of

1:30:08 Speaker 9: his career with THEDA, a very trusted high level rocket

1:30:12 Speaker 9: scientist and intelligence analyst who inspired the ASAP program. As

1:30:16 Speaker 9: I said earlier and in full disclosure, I've co written

1:30:20 Speaker 9: two books with him. He dropped this on myself and

1:30:23 Speaker 9: our other co author, out of the Blue, and it

1:30:26 Speaker 9: took fourteen months for us to get dopts her approval

1:30:29 Speaker 9: for him to release two sentences on that. He said,

1:30:32 Speaker 9: this craft we had managed to get inside of it.

1:30:36 Speaker 9: It had no wings, no rotor, no tail, It had

1:30:39 Speaker 9: no fuel, no fuel tanks. They didn't know how it

1:30:42 Speaker 9: flew or how it was operated. It clearly looked like

1:30:45 Speaker 9: it was aerodynamic, but he would not go further. He's

1:30:50 Speaker 9: by the book guy, and until he gets clearance to

1:30:52 Speaker 9: say more about that, I don't think we're going to

1:30:55 Speaker 9: hear much more. But it's not ours. It wasn't ours.

1:30:58 Speaker 9: We didn't make it. We didn't know who made it

1:31:00 Speaker 9: and how it was built and how it operated. We've

1:31:02 Speaker 9: got at least one and I don't know I think

1:31:04 Speaker 9: that's enough confirmation that we've.

1:31:06 Speaker 20: We do haves and material Leslie, mister Berlin, in the

1:31:13 Speaker 20: in the classified realm, have you been exposed to undeniable

1:31:16 Speaker 20: confirmation of NHI technology? And then my second question is

1:31:21 Speaker 20: is Base systems involved in any way with reverse engineering

1:31:25 Speaker 20: exploitation of non human intelligence craft.

1:31:29 Speaker 10: Yeah, we're gonna have to call We're gonna have to

1:31:30 Speaker 10: have a conversation this skiff for that, whether I'm legally

1:31:33 Speaker 10: even allowed to answer that, and whether you're even allowed

1:31:36 Speaker 10: to hear it, sir.

1:31:37 Speaker 20: Okay again, you can you can sense our frustration, and

1:31:42 Speaker 20: so I just want to thank you for coming forward.

1:31:44 Speaker 20: We will continue to fight because look, this is about

1:31:47 Speaker 20: making sure that this government belongs to the people, in

1:31:50 Speaker 20: restoring the republic the way it was intended to be,

1:31:53 Speaker 20: Madame Cher. I also have further witnesses of courageous individuals. It

1:31:58 Speaker 20: was given to me by doctor Stephen Greer, including Michael

1:32:02 Speaker 20: Herrera and his testimony. We have Roderick Cassel and his testimony,

1:32:08 Speaker 20: Randy Anderson his testimony, Steven Digna and others, three others

1:32:14 Speaker 20: all saying similar things to what the witnesses today has said,

1:32:18 Speaker 20: and I would like to enter that into the record

1:32:20 Speaker 20: as well.

1:32:20 Speaker 1: No objection, Thank you. I now recognize Representative Lee for

1:32:25 Speaker 1: five minutes.

1:32:26 Speaker 3: Thank you, Madam Fear. I think we need to make

1:32:30 Speaker 3: sure that we don't get distracted by sensational stories only

1:32:35 Speaker 3: of unidentified anomalists phenomena, and lose track of what the

1:32:39 Speaker 3: core of this hearing is about. This is all a

1:32:42 Speaker 3: perfect example of why whistleblowers are so important and why

1:32:46 Speaker 3: it's so important that we step up and protect them.

1:32:49 Speaker 3: With Trump, RFK, Junior EPA administrator Lee Zelda, and others

1:32:54 Speaker 3: committed to dismantling government and firing professionals who do dare

1:32:58 Speaker 3: to speak out against the threats this administration's disastrous policies create.

1:33:02 Speaker 3: We have to focus on protecting all whistleblowers, not only

1:33:06 Speaker 3: the ones who are reporting on UAP. I'd like to

1:33:09 Speaker 3: thank the whistleblowers who have agreed to come before the

1:33:11 Speaker 3: committee today and speak their truth. This administration's claims to

1:33:16 Speaker 3: care about waste, fraud and abuse, and so often it

1:33:19 Speaker 3: is the whistleblowers who care and who are the tip

1:33:23 Speaker 3: of a sword fighting against the real waste, fraud and abuse.

1:33:26 Speaker 3: One study found that whistleblowers expose fraud at more than

1:33:30 Speaker 3: twice the rate of third party auditors. So, mister Spielberger,

1:33:34 Speaker 3: what are some of the best examples of whistleblowers exposing

1:33:37 Speaker 3: fraud and abuse in the federal government?

1:33:41 Speaker 13: Thank you, Congresswoman again, whistleblowers have played such a vital

1:33:45 Speaker 13: role across so many different issues. One prominent example goes

1:33:50 Speaker 13: back to the twenty fourteen via Weightless scandal. HOGO actually

1:33:55 Speaker 13: played a very instrumental role coordinating with Iraq and Afghanistan

1:33:59 Speaker 13: veterans of America at that time. We receive tips and

1:34:03 Speaker 13: whistleblower disclosures from over eight hundred different individuals talking about

1:34:09 Speaker 13: the v A subjecting veterans to extensive wait times in

1:34:18 Speaker 13: order to get the basic standard of care that they deserve.

1:34:23 Speaker 13: It's certainly prolonged serious illnesses, even contributing to hasten deaths,

1:34:30 Speaker 13: and we were able to.

1:34:33 Speaker 14: Help shed more light on.

1:34:37 Speaker 13: That issue, which I think just emphasizes the importance. Even

1:34:43 Speaker 13: outside of the national security context. We are often still

1:34:46 Speaker 13: talking about serious issues and even life and death concerns.

1:34:51 Speaker 3: And unfortunately, whistleblowers can whistle blowing can lead to serious

1:34:56 Speaker 3: repercussions and retaliation, especially in this vidictive and lawless administration.

1:35:01 Speaker 14: Mister Spielberger.

1:35:02 Speaker 3: In the past, what kinds of retaliation have they faced

1:35:04 Speaker 3: and what are we seeing today under the Trump administration.

1:35:09 Speaker 13: So we've certainly heard about a number of different examples

1:35:13 Speaker 13: of retaliation. One that I'd like to highlight that mister

1:35:16 Speaker 13: Borland referenced previously is retaliation through abuse of the security

1:35:22 Speaker 13: clearance process that can have grave implications not just for

1:35:25 Speaker 13: a whistleblower, but also their ability to seek legal counsel

1:35:29 Speaker 13: and defend themselves against retaliation. And when we look at

1:35:33 Speaker 13: the past several months of this administration, unfortunately we've seen

1:35:38 Speaker 13: a really systematic approach toward dismantling the non partisan civil service.

1:35:43 Speaker 13: We've seen the mass firings. We've seen undermining of independent

1:35:47 Speaker 13: agency watchdogs, mass firings of Inspectors General, undermining the Office

1:35:52 Speaker 13: of Special Counsel, the Merit Systems Protection Board. Again, these

1:35:56 Speaker 13: entities that are meant to be independent and play a

1:35:59 Speaker 13: critical role in investigating whistleblower disclosures and ensuring that their

1:36:04 Speaker 13: rights are protected.

1:36:08 Speaker 5: Thank you.

1:36:08 Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty nine, Congress passed the Whistleblower Protection Act

1:36:11 Speaker 3: and then broadened it again in twenty twelve to ensure

1:36:13 Speaker 3: that federal workers could feel free to come forward to

1:36:16 Speaker 3: their elected officials. And it's a good thing we did,

1:36:19 Speaker 3: because whistleblowers have played a more important role than ever

1:36:22 Speaker 3: since Trump has taken office. It was thanks to a

1:36:24 Speaker 3: whistleblower that we learned that dose willisurely put every single

1:36:27 Speaker 3: americans personal security information at risk by bypassing safeguards and

1:36:32 Speaker 3: copying all this data to an unsecure server. I ask

1:36:35 Speaker 3: you anatamous consent to enter into the record of New

1:36:37 Speaker 3: York Times article title quote those put critical social security

1:36:40 Speaker 3: data at risk.

1:36:41 Speaker 8: Whistleblawer says, good to go.

1:36:44 Speaker 21: Thanks.

1:36:44 Speaker 3: We've had whistleblowers at the National Labor Relations Work reveal

1:36:47 Speaker 3: that DOZE minions may have shipped case files outside of

1:36:50 Speaker 3: the agency, possibly to help then co President Elon must

1:36:53 Speaker 3: continue to exploit his workers, And last week, whistleblowers at

1:36:55 Speaker 3: the National Institute of Health came forward to say that

1:36:58 Speaker 3: RFK Junior's vaccine and miss information campaign have pervaded even

1:37:02 Speaker 3: the highest levels of the agency. Typically, whistleblowers have an

1:37:05 Speaker 3: Inspector General they can rely on to investigate their claims

1:37:08 Speaker 3: and register issues with agency leadership. But President Trump has

1:37:10 Speaker 3: fired or demoted over twenty inspectors general. If I may

1:37:13 Speaker 3: ask one more question, mister Spielberger, can you explain how

1:37:16 Speaker 3: eroding the independence and capabilities of inspectors general further in

1:37:20 Speaker 3: danger these whistleblowers.

1:37:23 Speaker 13: Absolutely so again whistleblowers already face incredibly great challenges in

1:37:28 Speaker 13: coming forward under normal circumstances, and when we erode these

1:37:31 Speaker 13: entities that are expected and required to enforce whistleblower protections

1:37:39 Speaker 13: fairly investigate their disclosures, it calls into question the integrity

1:37:43 Speaker 13: of their investigations and findings, whether they'll take whistleblowers seriously

1:37:48 Speaker 13: when they come forward, and whether we can trust that

1:37:51 Speaker 13: they will use their authority to enforce the protections of

1:37:54 Speaker 13: whistleblowers who do come forward, essentially, whether they will continue

1:37:59 Speaker 13: in their role as an independent watchdog or basically become

1:38:04 Speaker 13: a lap dog for a current or future president.

1:38:08 Speaker 3: Thank you, and I will note I was like, no

1:38:10 Speaker 3: longer liberty, no more liberties, I go back.

1:38:13 Speaker 1: Thank you, I now recognize mister Crane for five minutes.

1:38:18 Speaker 5: Thank you, miss chairwoman for holding this hearing. Thank you

1:38:21 Speaker 5: to the witnesses for appearing in the effort of transparency.

1:38:27 Speaker 19: Here.

1:38:27 Speaker 5: I got to admit to the witnesses that you know,

1:38:29 Speaker 5: growing up, I really never believed in UFOs or any

1:38:32 Speaker 5: of this stuff. I always sound thought it was a

1:38:34 Speaker 5: little kooky and whatnot. But uh, you know, after hearing,

1:38:39 Speaker 5: you know, your testimony from honorable service members watching videos

1:38:44 Speaker 5: like my colleague mister Burlason just presented. You know, I

1:38:47 Speaker 5: gotta admit I've become a believer. Not that I know

1:38:50 Speaker 5: where these things come from or you know what they

1:38:52 Speaker 5: really are up to, But I'd like to start with

1:38:58 Speaker 5: asking the witnesses. Mister new should tell you were in

1:39:01 Speaker 5: the Air Force, right, yes? Did you believe in UFOs

1:39:05 Speaker 5: prior to your encounter?

1:39:07 Speaker 9: I've always been interested.

1:39:09 Speaker 5: Okay, Chief Wiggins, you're in the currently in the Navy,

1:39:12 Speaker 5: is that correct?

1:39:13 Speaker 9: Correct?

1:39:14 Speaker 5: Did you believe in UFOs before your encounter?

1:39:17 Speaker 21: I did.

1:39:18 Speaker 7: I'm from Las Vegas and I've watched towards NAP that

1:39:20 Speaker 7: whole life.

1:39:21 Speaker 5: Okay, what about you, mister Borland.

1:39:24 Speaker 10: I have always been open to where facts go.

1:39:28 Speaker 5: So were you guys scared or hesitant to come forward

1:39:32 Speaker 5: and tell your story because of fear and believing that

1:39:37 Speaker 5: you might be reprimanded or ostracized from society because of

1:39:41 Speaker 5: your stories?

1:39:44 Speaker 12: Yes? Absolutely.

1:39:46 Speaker 6: I probably would not have come forward if I didn't

1:39:49 Speaker 6: have documentation to prove some of my story. And I

1:39:52 Speaker 6: also wouldn't have come forward without the people that paved

1:39:55 Speaker 6: the way for us. You know, the first Congressional hearing chief.

1:40:00 Speaker 10: What about you?

1:40:02 Speaker 7: Once I got the okay from the Navy from top down,

1:40:06 Speaker 7: that gave me a level of relief. Prior to that,

1:40:09 Speaker 7: I didn't have any thought left or right of that.

1:40:13 Speaker 7: But I think the Navy to give me the go

1:40:16 Speaker 7: ahead and that gave me the relief that I would

1:40:18 Speaker 7: not have any level of reprisal or anything happened to me.

1:40:21 Speaker 10: Mister Borland, how about you? Absolutely? I mean, after I

1:40:25 Speaker 10: went through everything, it was pretty clear that I caused

1:40:29 Speaker 10: a major issue in the executive branch. So I did

1:40:32 Speaker 10: what I was supposed to do, and that's why I

1:40:35 Speaker 10: haven't spoken publicly publicly. That's why I'm happy to be here.

1:40:38 Speaker 10: This is how I wanted this to be done.

1:40:40 Speaker 5: In regards to me, mister Borland, why do you think

1:40:43 Speaker 5: that you faced reprimand and discipline for your effort to

1:40:49 Speaker 5: come forward and be transparent about what you saw?

1:40:53 Speaker 10: About what I saw is the reason why I got

1:40:56 Speaker 10: into what I know and has been disclosed to and

1:41:00 Speaker 10: the IG. And I think that information while it was

1:41:03 Speaker 10: it was labeled an extremely sensitive national security issue. Thank you,

1:41:09 Speaker 10: mister Napp.

1:41:09 Speaker 5: I've watched many of your videos on Joe Rogan in

1:41:12 Speaker 5: other places One of the big questions I think for

1:41:16 Speaker 5: many of us is why do you believe that the

1:41:18 Speaker 5: federal government refuses to be transparent.

1:41:20 Speaker 10: About this issue.

1:41:23 Speaker 9: I think there's probably multiple reasons. At the start, when

1:41:26 Speaker 9: these things first started invading our skies in large numbers,

1:41:29 Speaker 9: we were scared. It was right after World War Two,

1:41:32 Speaker 9: and we didn't know what they were, and they didn't

1:41:34 Speaker 9: want to panic the public, and that was probably a

1:41:36 Speaker 9: good call. Over time, I think they the length sort

1:41:40 Speaker 9: of became institutionalized. You know, flights over Washington, d C.

1:41:44 Speaker 9: In nineteen fifty two, they're seen, they're captured on radar.

1:41:47 Speaker 9: Jets are chased after these objects, and then we get

1:41:50 Speaker 9: an explanation it was a temperature inversion. And those kind

1:41:54 Speaker 9: of lies have been told for a long time. What

1:41:56 Speaker 9: was told to me by an investigator from Congress, a

1:41:59 Speaker 9: guy named Richard Demo, who was sent after this story

1:42:02 Speaker 9: by Robert Bird and Harry Reid. He came out to Nevada,

1:42:06 Speaker 9: tried to get into Area fifty one, did get in there,

1:42:08 Speaker 9: looked around, talk to people, trying to get to the

1:42:10 Speaker 9: bottom of it. He believed that this program reverse engineering,

1:42:13 Speaker 9: et cetera, was inside, had been moved inside these corporations,

1:42:17 Speaker 9: and he said when this comes out, people are going

1:42:20 Speaker 9: to go to prison, and he meant people who were

1:42:23 Speaker 9: basically misusing legitimate national security funds tens of billions of

1:42:26 Speaker 9: dollars in order to keep this cover up going. I

1:42:29 Speaker 9: also believe there's a legitimate reason for the cover up

1:42:32 Speaker 9: in that there is undeniable connection of national security involved

1:42:36 Speaker 9: in this technology. If we are racing for it to

1:42:39 Speaker 9: master that technology against the Russians and the Chinese, which

1:42:42 Speaker 9: is what I have been told by Senator Reid and

1:42:44 Speaker 9: many others, then it is a race that's critical to

1:42:48 Speaker 9: our survival. There could be a form of disclosure. I think, yes,

1:42:53 Speaker 9: it's real, it's from somewhere else, without revealing all the

1:42:56 Speaker 9: details that would allow someone else to have an advantage

1:42:58 Speaker 9: in the race for this technolog Thank you.

1:43:01 Speaker 5: Finally, I'd like to enter into the testimony a letter

1:43:07 Speaker 5: I sent to the DoD regarding the case of Major

1:43:10 Speaker 5: David Charles Grush, a UAP whistleblower who's been extremely helpful

1:43:14 Speaker 5: to this committee. Unfortunately, due to his participation in the

1:43:18 Speaker 5: disclosure of UAP, he suffered reprisal like the removal of

1:43:22 Speaker 5: his clearance, denial of promotion and loss of medical retirement.

1:43:25 Speaker 5: I wrote the DoD on July twenty fourth, twenty twenty five,

1:43:29 Speaker 5: on behalf of major grush, and I'm still waiting for

1:43:32 Speaker 5: a reply. I appreciate any help the Committee can offer

1:43:35 Speaker 5: to get a response.

1:43:37 Speaker 10: Thank you.

1:43:37 Speaker 1: I yield back with that objection. We'll be following up

1:43:39 Speaker 1: with the DoD after this hearing. Thank you, Representative Crane.

1:43:42 Speaker 1: I'd like next like to recognize Representative Gil for five minutes.

1:43:49 Speaker 22: Thank you cherwom Luna for holding this hearing, and I'd

1:43:52 Speaker 22: like to yield a minuteto my time.

1:43:54 Speaker 1: To you perfect. My first question is to mister Napp,

1:43:57 Speaker 1: how do we know that the files that you obtained

1:43:59 Speaker 1: from the former Soviet government are not BS and just

1:44:03 Speaker 1: given to you as a disinformation campaign against US government.

1:44:06 Speaker 9: That's a good question. So I shared some of them

1:44:08 Speaker 9: with the Senate Intelligence Committee when I first got back,

1:44:10 Speaker 9: because that was requested by the Russians who shared some

1:44:13 Speaker 9: of that information with me. Secondly, I gave all of

1:44:16 Speaker 9: that material to the DA through BASS the afs APP program.

1:44:20 Speaker 9: Sorry for the acronyms.

1:44:22 Speaker 1: Can you name names real quick?

1:44:23 Speaker 9: Sorry? At BASS?

1:44:25 Speaker 1: Or also did you give them two directly?

1:44:26 Speaker 9: I gave them to Robert Bigelow and to Jim Lecatski,

1:44:30 Speaker 9: and they hired a whole team to go through them

1:44:33 Speaker 9: and retranslate them and analyze it. Then they created a

1:44:37 Speaker 9: structure of how the UFO programs in the USSR and

1:44:40 Speaker 9: Russia were put together. They said they were real. Find

1:44:44 Speaker 9: the other person who said they're real is David.

1:44:45 Speaker 1: Grush noted, thank you, Representative Gil.

1:44:50 Speaker 22: And thank You'd like to yield the remainder of my

1:44:53 Speaker 22: time to Eric Burlison.

1:44:57 Speaker 20: Thank you, represented Gil, Mister Wiggins, Chief Wiggins. In your view,

1:45:02 Speaker 20: what mechanisms such as internal protocols, witness debriefings, or cross

1:45:08 Speaker 20: agency documentation should be better established in order to ensure

1:45:13 Speaker 20: that such a credible sighting like the one that you

1:45:15 Speaker 20: have given are preserved and made available to oversight bodies

1:45:20 Speaker 20: like this.

1:45:23 Speaker 10: Thank you sir.

1:45:25 Speaker 7: As a active duty Navy member, our mission is to

1:45:31 Speaker 7: carry out the ship's mission or the commands mission, and

1:45:35 Speaker 7: we on a general basis don't have knowledge of what

1:45:40 Speaker 7: to do when we see things like this.

1:45:41 Speaker 21: We just don't.

1:45:42 Speaker 7: We're there to do our mission and do what's told

1:45:45 Speaker 7: of us, right, So I think what would be important

1:45:49 Speaker 7: is giving active duty members a clear way of being

1:45:57 Speaker 7: able to report things like this to where it gets

1:46:00 Speaker 7: to this point and ensuring that we have a standard

1:46:05 Speaker 7: level of understanding that there wouldn't be any level of

1:46:08 Speaker 7: reprisal or anything happening. Because you know, I've been in

1:46:11 Speaker 7: the Navy for almost twenty four years. But what about

1:46:15 Speaker 7: the sailors that I've been in for two years that

1:46:17 Speaker 7: experience things like this. They're not going to have the

1:46:20 Speaker 7: knowledge or they'll probably be a little bit more fearful

1:46:23 Speaker 7: to speak up, being at that their career is just starting.

1:46:26 Speaker 10: Yeah.

1:46:27 Speaker 20: I just I want to commend you. You're the first

1:46:29 Speaker 20: witness to come forward that is currently serving and it's recognized,

1:46:33 Speaker 20: and so I thank you, and your testimony is unbelievable.

1:46:37 Speaker 20: Let me ask this question, are you familiar with the

1:46:40 Speaker 20: Witness Protection Act that to represented Burchett has filed.

1:46:45 Speaker 7: I'm not too familiar, sir.

1:46:46 Speaker 20: Anyone on the committee familiar with it. It's fantastic. It's

1:46:50 Speaker 20: the language that we need. It's language that will protect

1:46:54 Speaker 20: with you know, whistleblowers from from any kind of reprisal.

1:46:59 Speaker 20: And yet it's again and again blocked by by you know,

1:47:04 Speaker 20: this body in some way. Many times it's being blocked

1:47:08 Speaker 20: not by elected officials but by staff behind the scenes.

1:47:12 Speaker 20: And the other bill, the UAP Disclosure Act, which was

1:47:16 Speaker 20: filed last year Senator Schumer, who I cannot believe that

1:47:20 Speaker 20: there's a topic that he and I agree on, but

1:47:23 Speaker 20: he and I agree on this topic. He is sponsored

1:47:26 Speaker 20: in the Senate. He put it on the National Defense

1:47:28 Speaker 20: Authorization Act last year. Remarkably, I can't get it on

1:47:32 Speaker 20: the It was stripped out by the House last year,

1:47:34 Speaker 20: and I can't get it onto the bill leaving the

1:47:37 Speaker 20: House this year. Mister Napp, how.

1:47:41 Speaker 9: Far would that would do?

1:47:43 Speaker 20: That bill go to actually getting the answers that we need.

1:47:48 Speaker 12: Pretty far?

1:47:49 Speaker 9: I think that are still going to have roadblocks. You know,

1:47:52 Speaker 9: the keepers of the secrets, the private companies that have

1:47:54 Speaker 9: been doing this job for intelligence agencies for a long time,

1:47:57 Speaker 9: are not going to cough it up. You'd have to

1:47:59 Speaker 9: force it out of them. And whether you can get

1:48:01 Speaker 9: them to admit that they have it or not, I

1:48:03 Speaker 9: mean they're supposed to lie about it. They've been lying

1:48:05 Speaker 9: about it, you know. I more power to you. I

1:48:09 Speaker 9: hope it works. I hope it passes this time, but

1:48:12 Speaker 9: it's a it's a daunting challenge to get them to

1:48:15 Speaker 9: open up after lying about it for more than seventy

1:48:18 Speaker 9: five years.

1:48:18 Speaker 20: Yeah. And then finally, mister Borland, when you engage with

1:48:23 Speaker 20: Arrow in twenty twenty three, you noted that their public

1:48:25 Speaker 20: statements did not match the reality that you and others

1:48:29 Speaker 20: had witnessed and your assessment, what were the key limitations

1:48:34 Speaker 20: of Arrow?

1:48:36 Speaker 10: You know, I would put it to you this way.

1:48:37 Speaker 10: The statement Arrow has made is scientific evidence of extraterrestrials.

1:48:42 Speaker 10: Scientific evidence requires a scientific control extraterrestrials an entity on

1:48:47 Speaker 10: another planet. The only way to scientifically prove extra terrestrial

1:48:52 Speaker 10: is we have to go to that planet, acquire technology,

1:48:55 Speaker 10: bring it back, and compare it to what we have here.

1:48:57 Speaker 20: So you're saying they won't let anything out because or

1:49:01 Speaker 20: they won't. They won't come forward unless they confirm that

1:49:04 Speaker 20: it Unless say, go to the planet and confirm where

1:49:07 Speaker 20: its origin.

1:49:07 Speaker 10: Is, that that would be scientific evidence. Yes, and by

1:49:11 Speaker 10: that statement, Aro found those scientific evidence of better terrestrials

1:49:15 Speaker 10: is basically I don't want to call it a SI off,

1:49:18 Speaker 10: but a misrepresentation because we do have things. But making

1:49:21 Speaker 10: that statement is not technically a lie. It's a misrepresentation

1:49:25 Speaker 10: of the full truth.

1:49:27 Speaker 20: Thank you.

1:49:28 Speaker 18: Madam Chair, may I just since we're on that topic

1:49:31 Speaker 18: real quick, how do we get to these other planets?

1:49:34 Speaker 18: How do we pass the Van Allen radiation belt safely?

1:49:40 Speaker 10: Good question for you. I cannot answer that for you.

1:49:45 Speaker 1: I would now like to recognize mister Perry for five minutes.

1:49:50 Speaker 12: Thanks, Madam Chair. I think I'll start with maybe mister Borland.

1:49:55 Speaker 12: So you have a clearance, right, you're in uniform. You

1:49:58 Speaker 12: have a clearance. When did you leave at service?

1:50:01 Speaker 14: A year?

1:50:01 Speaker 10: I left in twenty thirteen, February thirteen.

1:50:04 Speaker 12: Who was a president if you recall.

1:50:06 Speaker 10: Twenty thirteen would have been President Obamaser was.

1:50:08 Speaker 12: A president Trump?

1:50:09 Speaker 9: Right?

1:50:09 Speaker 12: No, sir, okay, So you have a clearance, right, you're

1:50:12 Speaker 12: serving the uniform. You have a clearance. Your story, You know,

1:50:15 Speaker 12: I think many of us are kind of picturing the

1:50:17 Speaker 12: scene you walk out in the flight line having to smoke.

1:50:20 Speaker 12: This event occurs. Do you have the perception, at least

1:50:24 Speaker 12: I do, based on your story that this involves the

1:50:30 Speaker 12: US government? Whatever you saw involves the US government.

1:50:34 Speaker 10: That is one hundred percent my opinion then and.

1:50:37 Speaker 12: Now and was there an after action? Was do you

1:50:42 Speaker 12: do a daily debrief of the activities of the day.

1:50:46 Speaker 12: Was any of that recorded? Was there a conversation with

1:50:49 Speaker 12: the command? Was there any documentation that you know of

1:50:52 Speaker 12: at the time?

1:50:53 Speaker 10: Not to my knowledge. I mean, like I said, I

1:50:55 Speaker 10: talked about it in on the off floor, and a

1:50:57 Speaker 10: couple of people had pulled me aside, some older and

1:50:59 Speaker 10: list it and we're like, you probably want to keep

1:51:01 Speaker 10: that to yourself.

1:51:03 Speaker 12: So did you get the did you get the impression

1:51:06 Speaker 12: that they knew what you were talking about, just didn't

1:51:09 Speaker 12: want you to harm your career or seem crazy, or

1:51:12 Speaker 12: that they didn't really witness Do you know anybody else

1:51:15 Speaker 12: that witnessed what you saw?

1:51:17 Speaker 10: Again? Not that night? Like I said, the only people

1:51:19 Speaker 10: that would have been out there would have been security

1:51:20 Speaker 10: forces and then those of us that were.

1:51:22 Speaker 12: Doing security forces in uniform or contract probably both. Did

1:51:27 Speaker 12: you talk to them? Did anybody talk to them in

1:51:29 Speaker 12: an after action?

1:51:30 Speaker 10: Not to my knowledge.

1:51:31 Speaker 12: Is there any interest in the command to determine and

1:51:35 Speaker 12: verify what you saw? Not to my knowledge or it's unfortunate,

1:51:39 Speaker 12: Chief Wiggins. Thank you for your service, gentlemen, Thank thanks

1:51:42 Speaker 12: for all of you for your courage that be here.

1:51:47 Speaker 12: Your story's a little bit different, sounds like it, well

1:51:52 Speaker 12: for both of you guys, and also, mister Nussatelli, if

1:51:57 Speaker 12: this were sanctioned by the US government even though you

1:52:00 Speaker 12: have a clearance, but it's classified above the clearance level,

1:52:05 Speaker 12: do you see any reason why they would allow you

1:52:08 Speaker 12: access being present, viewing it, hearing it, you know, being

1:52:15 Speaker 12: around it? Like, what is this an accident? Like does

1:52:19 Speaker 12: the US government make these kind of acts? They make accidents,

1:52:22 Speaker 12: mistakes like this way, Oh, we're doing this, we're doing

1:52:26 Speaker 12: this test of this new system and we forgot these

1:52:29 Speaker 12: guys were standing here. Does that sound like something that

1:52:32 Speaker 12: the US government would do. No, sir.

1:52:37 Speaker 6: Some of the launches we were doing were like five

1:52:39 Speaker 6: billion dollar projects that had taken like ten years to

1:52:42 Speaker 6: develop the technology, and these objects were coming right up

1:52:46 Speaker 6: to the launch pad. So any kind of mistake, I mean,

1:52:50 Speaker 6: we could it could cause a catastrophe, right, So it's

1:52:53 Speaker 6: very confusing why these objects would be operating in in

1:52:58 Speaker 6: around our bases or during trade any exercise it US.

1:53:01 Speaker 12: Would lend you to believe that the US government had no,

1:53:06 Speaker 12: had nothing to do with whatever it is you saw. Correct,

1:53:09 Speaker 12: they wouldn't want it there because it would potentially interrupt

1:53:12 Speaker 12: the proceedings at the time. Was there an after action.

1:53:16 Speaker 12: Was there a discussion by your command where that? Was

1:53:18 Speaker 12: there an investigation? It's pretty significant activities that you were

1:53:22 Speaker 12: involved in. Was there an investigation that you know of?

1:53:25 Speaker 6: We conducted investigations in real time, right, we document all

1:53:28 Speaker 6: the evidence, But as far as anything from higher up,

1:53:32 Speaker 6: I don't know if there was an investigation. No information

1:53:34 Speaker 6: came down on what we should.

1:53:36 Speaker 12: Were you ever interviewed at someone else's request.

1:53:40 Speaker 6: About that incident?

1:53:41 Speaker 12: About the incident?

1:53:42 Speaker 6: I don't believe so.

1:53:43 Speaker 12: Do you think that's you find that odd? If something happens.

1:53:47 Speaker 12: You're around multi million, maybe billion dollar operations and launches

1:53:51 Speaker 12: of national security interests very sensitive, there's an anomaly in

1:53:57 Speaker 12: the operation.

1:54:00 Speaker 6: The only person witness that saw UAP at Vanderberg at

1:54:04 Speaker 6: a time frame it was interviewed was the one that

1:54:07 Speaker 6: witnessed the thing.

1:54:08 Speaker 12: Land Well, why wouldn't Well, I don't know why I'm

1:54:11 Speaker 12: asking you, but it seems to me that we would

1:54:13 Speaker 12: want to interview everybody associated, even not associated, to find

1:54:17 Speaker 12: out if they were associated. Chief Wiggins, how about you?

1:54:20 Speaker 12: Did anybody? Was there an investigation? Was there an after action?

1:54:23 Speaker 12: Was there documentation on the incident that you were privy to?

1:54:28 Speaker 7: No, sir, not that I know of, and in my

1:54:31 Speaker 7: previous experience as an operation specialist, all operations that I've

1:54:36 Speaker 7: been a part of have been deliberate.

1:54:38 Speaker 12: So yeah, there there and deliberate operations. After the operations,

1:54:44 Speaker 12: you conducted an after action review, or that's what the

1:54:46 Speaker 12: Army calls it. I don't know what. I imagine the

1:54:49 Speaker 12: Navy has something similar to determine your weaknesses your successes.

1:54:53 Speaker 12: Do you do that in regard to this incident.

1:54:55 Speaker 7: No, sir, the Navy calls it after action reports, and

1:54:59 Speaker 7: not to my knowledge, was there after action report of

1:55:04 Speaker 7: this incident.

1:55:04 Speaker 12: It's unfortunate.

1:55:05 Speaker 1: Thank you, Chair, I yield, I now recognize mister Biggs

1:55:09 Speaker 1: for five minutes.

1:55:10 Speaker 23: Thank you, Mauna Chair. Thank you to the witnesses for

1:55:13 Speaker 23: being here today. I'll tell you today's testimony should alarm

1:55:16 Speaker 23: every American, no matter their views on UPS. This isn't

1:55:20 Speaker 23: simply about UPS. It's about government integrity, responsible use of

1:55:23 Speaker 23: taxpayer funds, and Congress's constitutional duty to oversee the executive

1:55:28 Speaker 23: branch for evidence of critical information hidden in special access

1:55:32 Speaker 23: programs off limits to virtually every elected representative and certainly

1:55:38 Speaker 23: to the public. Incredible witnesses report retaliation for speaking out.

1:55:43 Speaker 23: These are clear attempts to silence those who are exposing

1:55:46 Speaker 23: the truth.

1:55:47 Speaker 12: We must protect the whistleblowers.

1:55:48 Speaker 23: In the decades of government disinformation have eviscerated public trust.

1:55:53 Speaker 23: So this isn't a partisan matter.

1:55:55 Speaker 12: It's a constitutional matter.

1:55:57 Speaker 23: And when you talk about the VA's Miss Bielbigger and

1:56:01 Speaker 23: all the problems that they had, the hub of that

1:56:03 Speaker 23: was Phoenix, and they went after the whistleblowers there, and

1:56:08 Speaker 23: that was under the Obama administration. So it doesn't matter

1:56:11 Speaker 23: which administration which party. Both parties have got to come clean,

1:56:16 Speaker 23: particularly on this. So the government thinks you can hide

1:56:19 Speaker 23: the truth and punish those who speak out, Congress has

1:56:22 Speaker 23: to keep pushing until the facts, whatever they are wherever they.

1:56:25 Speaker 10: Leave, come to light.

1:56:26 Speaker 12: I'm going to go to you, mister Nap.

1:56:27 Speaker 14: First.

1:56:28 Speaker 23: You've interviewed numerous UAP whistleblowers over the years. The question

1:56:32 Speaker 23: is how do you verify their claims before deciding they're

1:56:35 Speaker 23: credible enough to report.

1:56:36 Speaker 9: On It's the combination of factors. First, to check their credentials.

1:56:40 Speaker 9: Did they really serve where they said they did? And

1:56:42 Speaker 9: did they work where they said they did? Are there

1:56:44 Speaker 9: any other witnesses? Is their visual proof, film footage, things

1:56:48 Speaker 9: of that sort. You ask the people around them that

1:56:50 Speaker 9: know them, that used to work with them, if they're

1:56:53 Speaker 9: credible people. That's one way, you know. I think about ARROW,

1:56:56 Speaker 9: the organization that this body created to deal with witnesses

1:57:01 Speaker 9: and whistleblowers. I hope I'm not taking too much of

1:57:04 Speaker 9: your time here, but they invited people to come forward,

1:57:06 Speaker 9: service members who knew saw things and had experiences, and

1:57:11 Speaker 9: I can tell you that the people that I have

1:57:12 Speaker 9: talked to who went through that are deeply disappointed. There

1:57:15 Speaker 9: was a guy named Bob Jacobs who was a lieutenant

1:57:18 Speaker 9: attached to Vandenberg in nineteen sixty four. His unit would

1:57:22 Speaker 9: record missile tests. They recorded all of them. On one

1:57:25 Speaker 9: of this particular tests, a UFO comes out of nowhere.

1:57:29 Speaker 9: Zapp's what looks like a laser beam at what would

1:57:31 Speaker 9: have been a nuclear dummy, a nuclear weapon and disabled it.

1:57:35 Speaker 9: And he is called into the commander's office. Two guys

1:57:39 Speaker 9: in suits clipped that film footage out that chose the UFO,

1:57:43 Speaker 9: and he's ordered to never talk about it. He comes

1:57:46 Speaker 9: forward to ARROW. He heeds the call, thinking he's doing

1:57:49 Speaker 9: his duty as an American to tell that story. And

1:57:52 Speaker 9: they completely dismissed him. They made up a story that

1:57:55 Speaker 9: they had tracked down the original footage and there was

1:57:57 Speaker 9: nothing like that in it. Well, there was no regional footage.

1:58:00 Speaker 9: It had been taken away the day the footage was recorded.

1:58:03 Speaker 9: He is deeply disappointed. People like Bob Sallas, who had

1:58:06 Speaker 9: worked at a nuclear ICBM base, who saw UFOs flying

1:58:10 Speaker 9: over the base and these missile silos were taken down.

1:58:13 Speaker 9: He went to Arrow too and was completely disregarded. It

1:58:15 Speaker 9: almost looks like Arrow operated as a counterintelligence operation to

1:58:19 Speaker 9: get people to come in tell their stories, and then

1:58:21 Speaker 9: discredit all of them. I can't imagine that any whistleblower

1:58:25 Speaker 9: or witness will ever go to Arrow again because of

1:58:28 Speaker 9: what happened under the first director, who's now long gone

1:58:31 Speaker 9: but still seems to act as the spokesperson for that organization.

1:58:35 Speaker 23: And I would say, I would say, Madam Chair, maybe

1:58:37 Speaker 23: at some point we need to really dig deep into Arrow,

1:58:41 Speaker 23: and I would encourage.

1:58:42 Speaker 1: You, so I'd be happy to send maybe a subpoenats

1:58:44 Speaker 1: mister Kilpatrick.

1:58:49 Speaker 12: Mister.

1:58:51 Speaker 23: Miss Nukutelly, Misteratelly, you've testified that official Air Force records

1:58:57 Speaker 23: of the Red Square incident are now held by arrow

1:59:00 Speaker 23: and the FBI has Congress or you been denied access

1:59:04 Speaker 23: to those records? And and on what grounds would they

1:59:08 Speaker 23: would we be denied access you or US?

1:59:11 Speaker 10: No, the records are unclassified, so okay.

1:59:17 Speaker 23: In the two thousand and three to two thousand and

1:59:18 Speaker 23: five incidents you described, where any physical effects, electromagic interference,

1:59:22 Speaker 23: radio anomalies, or security system disruptions documented in base logs

1:59:28 Speaker 23: or any reports official reports not to my knowledge, mister Wiggins,

1:59:36 Speaker 23: as the full resolution unended footage of your incident been

1:59:39 Speaker 23: provided to Congress.

1:59:42 Speaker 12: Yes, okay, where you or your.

1:59:46 Speaker 23: Crew ever instructed formally or informally not to document or

1:59:49 Speaker 23: discuss the event ever?

1:59:51 Speaker 14: No?

1:59:52 Speaker 7: Good.

1:59:53 Speaker 23: Mister Borland, you've talked about manipulation of your security clearance records.

1:59:58 Speaker 23: Can you identify which agencies are offices were responsible and

2:00:01 Speaker 23: whether they provided any written justification?

2:00:03 Speaker 10: I can do that in a skiff ser one percent.

2:00:06 Speaker 10: Because of being a part of a multi agency special

2:00:09 Speaker 10: access program, I cannot give those publicly, So.

2:00:12 Speaker 23: I had to encourage US Maunachair to have that skiff,

2:00:15 Speaker 23: that skiff meeting if we can. And then mister Borland

2:00:19 Speaker 23: again for you justify that you withheld certain sources and

2:00:21 Speaker 23: methods from aero due to mistrust, can you give us

2:00:25 Speaker 23: some specifics that legit believe they were misrepresenting the truth.

2:00:30 Speaker 10: Well, as I said already what I said about scientific method,

2:00:34 Speaker 10: scientific control, extraterrestrials. I mean, I know what I've seen,

2:00:38 Speaker 10: I know what I know, and I know it's true.

2:00:40 Speaker 10: So any agency that's going to go public and try

2:00:43 Speaker 10: and manipulate the public perception of this subject in such

2:00:49 Speaker 10: a way that is negative when I know the truth

2:00:52 Speaker 10: about it, is why I had extreme reservations with it,

2:00:56 Speaker 10: and also what I've been through in other whistle blowers

2:00:59 Speaker 10: and then know about this subject I've been through.

2:01:02 Speaker 23: So, Madame Chair, thank you for letting me wave on.

2:01:04 Speaker 23: I think the key thing you talked about was manipulation

2:01:08 Speaker 23: of message, manipulation of narrative.

2:01:11 Speaker 12: That is really the problem with its entire.

2:01:17 Speaker 23: The system that we've seen since you've started these wonderful hearings,

2:01:21 Speaker 23: Madam Chair, and I thank.

2:01:22 Speaker 12: You so much.

2:01:23 Speaker 1: Thank you Governor, I mean Representative Biggs. Miss the chair

2:01:27 Speaker 1: would now like to represent or recognize mister I guess

2:01:30 Speaker 1: you for five.

2:01:31 Speaker 19: Minutes, Thank you, Madam Chair. First question, mister Borland. Earlier

2:01:36 Speaker 19: today you mentioned that under in a skiff, you would

2:01:39 Speaker 19: be able to discuss whether a member of Congress is

2:01:43 Speaker 19: actually legally able to access certain information? Under what authority

2:01:47 Speaker 19: would a member of Congress be restricted from accessing information

2:01:50 Speaker 19: on this topic?

2:01:51 Speaker 21: Even within a skiff.

2:01:53 Speaker 10: I would suggest reaching out to Director Dabbird and speaking

2:01:56 Speaker 10: with her about that. I'm hopeful that this is back

2:02:00 Speaker 10: to the executive branch and who even has authority. Unfortunately,

2:02:03 Speaker 10: I can't give you a one percent solid answer because

2:02:06 Speaker 10: I don't even have that knowledge.

2:02:08 Speaker 19: Next question, UH to George Knapp, what is the estimated

2:02:12 Speaker 19: annual budget your view for the for the program for

2:02:16 Speaker 19: investigating or reverse engineering UAP related technology, including official, misappropriated

2:02:21 Speaker 19: or black budget funds.

2:02:23 Speaker 9: I wouldn't have a clue. I don't know any person

2:02:25 Speaker 9: that's ever seen it.

2:02:26 Speaker 21: Does anyone on this panel wish to address that question? Okay?

2:02:31 Speaker 19: Moving on, are any of you willing to name specific

2:02:34 Speaker 19: gatekeepers within the root cell of the UAP SAP Federation?

2:02:46 Speaker 9: You mean specific people and contractors that have dealt with.

2:02:49 Speaker 21: US secret specific individuals.

2:02:54 Speaker 9: Well, one of them was named doctor James Ryder at

2:02:58 Speaker 9: at Lockheed. But you know, again to emphasize, I don't

2:03:03 Speaker 9: fault these contractors for doing what they were asked to

2:03:06 Speaker 9: do by our government. They're supposed to lie if people

2:03:09 Speaker 9: ask about it. And the intelligence agencies who gave this

2:03:13 Speaker 9: stuff to them CIA, I think primarily told them to

2:03:17 Speaker 9: keep it quiet, and they've done that. And I suspect

2:03:20 Speaker 9: that they'd like an off ramp, that they'd like some

2:03:22 Speaker 9: help with figuring out this technology at some point.

2:03:25 Speaker 21: And this is again available to anyone.

2:03:27 Speaker 19: Is there a security classification guide for UAP or NHI.

2:03:37 Speaker 6: I remember in the two thousand and three or twenty

2:03:40 Speaker 6: twenty three hearing it was stated that all UAP related

2:03:44 Speaker 6: material is classified secret or above.

2:03:51 Speaker 9: I have a name for you, go ahead, Glenn Gaffney CIA.

2:03:56 Speaker 21: Glenn Gaffney CIA.

2:03:59 Speaker 19: Another question for you, mister Knapp, what is in your view,

2:04:04 Speaker 19: having investigated this issue for so many years, what is

2:04:06 Speaker 19: the long game with respect to disclosure of this information

2:04:10 Speaker 19: to the public.

2:04:11 Speaker 21: Because with the advent of.

2:04:15 Speaker 19: Essentially a video camera and a high megapixel phone in

2:04:19 Speaker 19: everybody's pocket, at some point this information is going to

2:04:22 Speaker 19: be impossible to withhold from the public.

2:04:25 Speaker 21: What do you think is the long game here?

2:04:28 Speaker 9: Well, the secret's out. I mean, how many videos have

2:04:30 Speaker 9: there been already you know, videos that are leaked from

2:04:33 Speaker 9: within the military and intelligence agencies and contractors and censor platforms.

2:04:37 Speaker 9: It's out there, but they have the high ground. The

2:04:39 Speaker 9: people that don't want us to take it seriously, dismiss it,

2:04:42 Speaker 9: discredit the witnesses, come up with a cover story. I mean,

2:04:45 Speaker 9: it's been out there a long time. The public senses

2:04:48 Speaker 9: that it's real, and the people in the authority dismiss them.

2:04:53 Speaker 9: It's a game that's been going on a long time,

2:04:56 Speaker 9: and I don't think they're ever going to release it.

2:04:59 Speaker 9: I think that there's an aude among the people that

2:05:01 Speaker 9: have been involved in this for a long time that

2:05:03 Speaker 9: the public doesn't deserve to know, and that the public

2:05:05 Speaker 9: probably can't handle it, but they can.

2:05:08 Speaker 19: Final question, again, this one's open to anyone who'd like

2:05:11 Speaker 19: to answer it. Describe your understanding of the org chart

2:05:15 Speaker 19: or lines of control within the executive branch with respect

2:05:18 Speaker 19: to these topics, and if you'd like to address that

2:05:26 Speaker 19: in a skiff, feel free to say so.

2:05:28 Speaker 10: That could work as long as I'm legally allowed to

2:05:30 Speaker 10: and you're legally allowed to receive it.

2:05:36 Speaker 9: I think these programs are in the executive branch, a

2:05:40 Speaker 9: National Security Council and over on that side. That seems

2:05:44 Speaker 9: to be what some of our witnesses have told us

2:05:47 Speaker 9: over the years. So you can, you know, Congress can

2:05:49 Speaker 9: file all kinds of requests. The foyas can be filed

2:05:52 Speaker 9: with the Department of Defense, Department of War now and

2:05:56 Speaker 9: they can honestly say, well, we don't have it, because

2:05:58 Speaker 9: they don't have it.

2:06:02 Speaker 21: Thank you.

2:06:02 Speaker 19: Is there anything in my remaining thirty seconds that you'd

2:06:06 Speaker 19: like to share on any of these questions that I've

2:06:09 Speaker 19: asked you today?

2:06:14 Speaker 9: I applaud the committee for trying to tackle this monster

2:06:17 Speaker 9: of an issue. I really appreciate that it's actually it

2:06:19 Speaker 9: might be the only bipartisan issue in Washington where everybody

2:06:23 Speaker 9: can agree. I've I've watched multiple hearings now everyone is

2:06:27 Speaker 9: asking the same kind of questions, whether right or left,

2:06:29 Speaker 9: and honestly went the answers, and you know, Chairman Luna,

2:06:33 Speaker 9: Chairwoman Luna, I appreciate your dedication to this, Tim Burchett

2:06:37 Speaker 9: and the other members for sticking with it, because you know,

2:06:41 Speaker 9: it's come up in Congress before, and they had hearings

2:06:44 Speaker 9: and then they dropped it for fifty years. So it's

2:06:46 Speaker 9: going to take a time, a lot of time. To

2:06:48 Speaker 9: get to the bottom of this, and I applaud your

2:06:50 Speaker 9: your commitment to getting to the truth.

2:06:53 Speaker 1: Thank you, mister nat Pursuit to committee in rural nine, I'm.

2:06:55 Speaker 20: Sure, can I have a part ask a parliamentary question

2:06:59 Speaker 20: of you?

2:06:59 Speaker 13: Yes?

2:06:59 Speaker 7: Sure?

2:07:00 Speaker 20: Does this subcommittee have the authority to do subpoenas task force?

2:07:05 Speaker 1: So the task force to answer that question has to

2:07:08 Speaker 1: do it through full committee, okay. So and also in

2:07:11 Speaker 1: regards to immunity, which to mister Borland's point, we are

2:07:14 Speaker 1: going to be doing a motion to ask for immunity

2:07:19 Speaker 1: for you and a few other people to come into

2:07:22 Speaker 1: a skiff and tell us what you know without being

2:07:24 Speaker 1: subject to the Espionage Act, et cetera.

2:07:26 Speaker 9: Thank you.

2:07:27 Speaker 1: So that's just kind of an update, but as a

2:07:29 Speaker 1: task force, because we're not a full subcommittee and there

2:07:32 Speaker 1: are certain authorities that haven't been granted to us, probably

2:07:35 Speaker 1: because they don't want us to have it, but there

2:07:37 Speaker 1: are ways to work around it. So we're kind of

2:07:39 Speaker 1: figuring that out. Pursued to Committee Rule nine, see, the

2:07:42 Speaker 1: majority and minority will have an additional thirty minutes each

2:07:45 Speaker 1: to ask questions of the witnesses without objection. So ordered

2:07:50 Speaker 1: with that being said, if you guys want to jump

2:07:52 Speaker 1: in the key. I know Representative Crane, Burleson and likely

2:07:55 Speaker 1: burchet have a few more questions. I'll just start out

2:07:57 Speaker 1: with two and then i'll pass the bucked Burlsen Burchette,

2:08:01 Speaker 1: do you have anything, I'll birch it and then Crane.

2:08:05 Speaker 1: Just real quick, mister Napp and short answers, please, because

2:08:08 Speaker 1: of time, how much of these alleged Russian crash retrieval

2:08:11 Speaker 1: documents have already been physically out there? So I mean

2:08:15 Speaker 1: percentage wise of the documents that you submitted to Congress,

2:08:17 Speaker 1: what was public already and what was not newly?

2:08:19 Speaker 9: Maybe one percent?

2:08:20 Speaker 1: Okay, so the rest of it should be predominantly new information. Also,

2:08:24 Speaker 1: can you just elaborate real quick? I know you had

2:08:26 Speaker 1: I think mentioned a Thread three program, but also alleged

2:08:29 Speaker 1: in those documents. I got through maybe half of them

2:08:31 Speaker 1: last time. There's a lot and I don't speak Russian.

2:08:34 Speaker 1: Contrary to what my people might allege. What does the

2:08:37 Speaker 1: Thread three? Was there any specific programs that existed within

2:08:41 Speaker 1: the Soviet government or groups to specifically investigate this by name?

2:08:45 Speaker 1: Real quick?

2:08:46 Speaker 9: It's a number. There's a number in those documents I

2:08:49 Speaker 9: gave you there was a larger program that actually had

2:08:51 Speaker 9: three sub programs. That was Thread three was the name

2:08:55 Speaker 9: I got, And then the DIA guys who looked at

2:08:58 Speaker 9: it figured out there was a much larger organization.

2:09:00 Speaker 1: Existed in those documents. Yes, okay, thank you, real quick.

2:09:03 Speaker 1: I'd like to ask the committee to replay that video

2:09:05 Speaker 1: that Burlison had played earlier. I want to ask every

2:09:08 Speaker 1: witness here, specifically ones that have sensor training or have

2:09:12 Speaker 1: been able to recognize some of this movements real quick.

2:09:14 Speaker 1: So if you guys can please roll that real quick, okay,

2:09:44 Speaker 1: while this is still rolling, mister news to Telly real quick,

2:09:47 Speaker 1: yes or no? Answers, Are you aware of anything in

2:09:49 Speaker 1: the government United States government arsenal that can split a

2:09:53 Speaker 1: health fire and missile like this and do whatever blob

2:09:57 Speaker 1: thing it didn't? Then keep going nothing nothing, all right?

2:09:59 Speaker 1: How about you, Chief we Wiggins? Nothing to my knowledge, man, okay,

2:10:03 Speaker 1: And how about you, mister Borland.

2:10:05 Speaker 10: I prefer to answer that in the skiff.

2:10:08 Speaker 1: Okay, does this video scare you guys? Yes or no?

2:10:15 Speaker 1: Yes Wiggins, yes, Nat.

2:10:19 Speaker 9: I had a different reaction. I was really happy that

2:10:22 Speaker 9: it got out.

2:10:22 Speaker 1: Thanks for providing curiosity that all right, mister Morland. Yes,

2:10:28 Speaker 1: for okay, all right, that that is the end of

2:10:32 Speaker 1: my questioning. I like to now recognize mister.

2:10:34 Speaker 22: Crane, thank you.

2:10:39 Speaker 10: Chief.

2:10:39 Speaker 5: I was on a ship for a little bit. I

2:10:41 Speaker 5: was a gunner's mate on the US of Skattiesburg for

2:10:43 Speaker 5: a couple of years. My question to you is when

2:10:46 Speaker 5: you saw had your encounter and you saw it on

2:10:51 Speaker 5: the screen, you were in the CIC.

2:10:53 Speaker 12: Is that correct? That's correct.

2:10:55 Speaker 7: On an LCS ship, the CIC is on the bridge,

2:10:59 Speaker 7: so it's ICC one.

2:11:01 Speaker 12: But yes, the same did did.

2:11:03 Speaker 5: A bunch of the other folks and the CIC come

2:11:06 Speaker 5: and check out what you were looking at?

2:11:08 Speaker 21: Yes, we all did.

2:11:11 Speaker 7: The Tactical Action Officer, myself, the r c O and

2:11:17 Speaker 7: two others that was that were on watch. We were

2:11:19 Speaker 7: all in the same space, so we were all looking

2:11:21 Speaker 7: at the sapphire screen all at the same time.

2:11:23 Speaker 5: Because in the other in the other couple instances with

2:11:26 Speaker 5: the witnesses, you guys just saw it by yourself. Is

2:11:28 Speaker 5: that correct, mister Borland, you saw by yourself for me, Yes, sir,

2:11:32 Speaker 5: mister Nissateli, you saw this by yourself.

2:11:36 Speaker 12: No, there were multiple witnesses in every case.

2:11:38 Speaker 5: ADVANTA okay, so Chief, did that spread like wildfire throughout

2:11:43 Speaker 5: the ship in the next day or two what you

2:11:45 Speaker 5: guys had seen.

2:11:47 Speaker 7: No, sir, it didn't spread throughout the ship, but it

2:11:49 Speaker 7: spread throughout ICC one conversation. As you do your turnover,

2:11:54 Speaker 7: we talk about it. But it didn't go further than

2:11:57 Speaker 7: just the watch standards that stood watch on the bridge

2:12:00 Speaker 7: and an icc one. So it did move around there

2:12:03 Speaker 7: throughout a few days.

2:12:05 Speaker 5: I'm kind of surprised. Stuff usually spreads around the ship

2:12:08 Speaker 5: pretty fast. Why do you think the rest of your

2:12:12 Speaker 5: fellow sailors on the boat didn't hear about it?

2:12:15 Speaker 7: Potentially uninterested? Possibly, you know, with engineers or combat systems

2:12:21 Speaker 7: like yourself, don't make their way up to the bridge

2:12:24 Speaker 7: enough to get withinside of the circle of talk about

2:12:27 Speaker 7: the incident.

2:12:28 Speaker 5: Was it hard for you to get permission from the

2:12:30 Speaker 5: Navy to bring that video?

2:12:33 Speaker 7: I myself didn't bring the video.

2:12:35 Speaker 21: I just saw the video.

2:12:36 Speaker 7: When I saw the video, I got in touch with

2:12:40 Speaker 7: Admiral Galadat. That's how I wind up knowing about the

2:12:44 Speaker 7: video itself. When I first talked to the admiral and

2:12:48 Speaker 7: you can hear my voice at the back end of

2:12:49 Speaker 7: the video and that's I was like, Hey, that's my

2:12:51 Speaker 7: voice that I wanted to talk about it.

2:12:53 Speaker 5: How long did that encounter take place?

2:12:55 Speaker 7: Chief, So, the encounter itself, from the time I recognized

2:13:01 Speaker 7: on my radar to the time after the video ends

2:13:06 Speaker 7: was probably about five to seven minutes.

2:13:10 Speaker 5: What speed was the object moving at?

2:13:14 Speaker 7: When I first witnessed off the port bridge wing the

2:13:19 Speaker 7: object moving out of the water, What I thought was

2:13:21 Speaker 7: originally just a light on the water, something on the

2:13:24 Speaker 7: horizon and surfacing and going into the air. I then

2:13:29 Speaker 7: knew it was an air contact. But as an air

2:13:33 Speaker 7: controller myself, I started thinking and going through kind of

2:13:37 Speaker 7: like my checklist in my mind.

2:13:38 Speaker 14: Could it be a helo? But it's not blinking lights?

2:13:41 Speaker 7: So I then realized, this is something I've never seen before.

2:13:45 Speaker 7: So the speed itself, just going from the horizon to

2:13:49 Speaker 7: about maybe three four thousand feet in the air was

2:13:53 Speaker 7: very slow, slowly rising, and then it sped up. I'm

2:13:58 Speaker 7: not an expert at you know, knowing specific speeds of

2:14:03 Speaker 7: aircraft just by visual eye, but I would say probably

2:14:07 Speaker 7: one two mock instantly into the rest of the formation.

2:14:10 Speaker 7: I didn't notice visually with my own eyes the other

2:14:13 Speaker 7: three objects until I went back to my radar and

2:14:17 Speaker 7: also utilized sapphire to see that in fact, there were

2:14:20 Speaker 7: four total, and then again when they all left after

2:14:25 Speaker 7: a certain amount of time. It was nearly instantaneous.

2:14:29 Speaker 5: So you spotted it visually first, Chief, and then went

2:14:32 Speaker 5: back to your radar. Did you guys find it on?

2:14:34 Speaker 5: Spotted on radar? First?

2:14:35 Speaker 12: Radar first, because that was my watch station was, and.

2:14:38 Speaker 5: Then you went out to the port bridge wing?

2:14:40 Speaker 10: Is that correct? Correct?

2:14:41 Speaker 21: To verify what I saw in Mari?

2:14:43 Speaker 5: What range was it at, Chief? When you were able

2:14:45 Speaker 5: to see it visibly.

2:14:47 Speaker 7: I would say about seven nautical miles seven to eight

2:14:53 Speaker 7: nautical miles of a light from the ship?

2:14:56 Speaker 12: Wow?

2:14:57 Speaker 5: Thank you, I yelled back.

2:15:00 Speaker 1: I recognized mister Burrows.

2:15:03 Speaker 20: Taking out in share mister Chief Wiggins. You said that

2:15:06 Speaker 20: it was it emerged from the ocean. Is that right?

2:15:10 Speaker 12: Yes, sir?

2:15:11 Speaker 20: And before it did, it was glowing. It was a

2:15:13 Speaker 20: glowing object under the water.

2:15:16 Speaker 7: That part I couldn't tell because it was nighttime at

2:15:21 Speaker 7: nineteen fifteen approximately, and it was also at a distance,

2:15:25 Speaker 7: so it's very hard to tell the difference between something

2:15:28 Speaker 7: on the horizon and something surfacing from the water. My

2:15:32 Speaker 7: personal thoughts after seeing what I saw is that it

2:15:36 Speaker 7: did in fact come from the water, but I don't

2:15:39 Speaker 7: have visual evidence showing exactly you know that it did

2:15:44 Speaker 7: in fact come from the water, but I had again,

2:15:46 Speaker 7: I had to go through my process of elimination and

2:15:50 Speaker 7: try to figure out was this a ship on the

2:15:52 Speaker 7: horizon just showing its lights at night? But to see

2:15:57 Speaker 7: its surface then it made me question, Okay, where did

2:16:00 Speaker 7: this come from? If it's flying and it's not a

2:16:03 Speaker 7: drone or anything like that, where was its origin? Where

2:16:06 Speaker 7: did it start?

2:16:09 Speaker 20: Mister Napp. In your testimony and in this document, you

2:16:14 Speaker 20: detail an event that happened in Russia where their nuclear

2:16:18 Speaker 20: missiles were activated and we were close to a World

2:16:22 Speaker 20: War three at that time, which is startling to hear.

2:16:26 Speaker 20: It's also good to know that, as we have investigated

2:16:29 Speaker 20: the JFK files as well, that we're learning that there

2:16:34 Speaker 20: was a document that was sent between Russia. There was

2:16:37 Speaker 20: an agreement between Russia and the United States that if

2:16:40 Speaker 20: they were to see some unidentified objects over sensitive sites,

2:16:45 Speaker 20: that they would report it to each other. Are you

2:16:47 Speaker 20: familiar with that document?

2:16:51 Speaker 9: Yes, I'm also familiar with the rhetoric public rhetoric between

2:16:56 Speaker 9: President Reagan and Gorbachev at the time too, that they

2:17:00 Speaker 9: traded statements about wouldn't it be something if we were

2:17:03 Speaker 9: threatened by something from way outside, how we might work together.

2:17:07 Speaker 9: I know for sure that they had conversations about it,

2:17:10 Speaker 9: and I know we did reach an agreement to try

2:17:13 Speaker 9: to lessen the possibility that US detecting a UFO or

2:17:16 Speaker 9: group of UFOs would not be mistaken for a bunch

2:17:19 Speaker 9: of Russian missiles. There were exchanges of that sort that

2:17:22 Speaker 9: went back and forth.

2:17:23 Speaker 20: Yeah, and I can imagine this is to me the

2:17:25 Speaker 20: validity of this document is underscored by the fact that

2:17:29 Speaker 20: Russia would not want this to be known. They absolutely

2:17:32 Speaker 20: would not want to know, the public to know, or

2:17:35 Speaker 20: the United States to know that there was a vulnerability

2:17:37 Speaker 20: in their missile systems.

2:17:38 Speaker 9: Would you agree, absolutely? And you know, and we had

2:17:42 Speaker 9: many similar incidents at our nuclear weapons facilities here that

2:17:45 Speaker 9: have all been sort of swept under the rug. But

2:17:47 Speaker 9: it's pretty scary when you take down ten missile silos

2:17:51 Speaker 9: during tense times and you don't have a better explanation

2:17:54 Speaker 9: for it than it was a special test of security

2:17:58 Speaker 9: mechanisms or using e MPs, which is a preposterous explanation.

2:18:03 Speaker 1: Real quick, we're going to cut to mister Ogle's he

2:18:05 Speaker 1: just got back, so we're in a special kind of

2:18:08 Speaker 1: lightning round, So five minutes and then we'll go back

2:18:10 Speaker 1: to line of question.

2:18:11 Speaker 24: Thank you, madam chair. You know, at this point, I

2:18:15 Speaker 24: think it's clear from from the hearing that there's advanced

2:18:19 Speaker 24: technologies that are taking place in our airspace. You know,

2:18:24 Speaker 24: the question is, and I opposed it in one of

2:18:26 Speaker 24: the previous hearings, is it ours?

2:18:28 Speaker 21: Is it theirs?

2:18:29 Speaker 10: Or is it otherworldly?

2:18:31 Speaker 24: There may not be a silver bullet at the moment,

2:18:34 Speaker 24: but when you look back through the hearing and the

2:18:37 Speaker 24: evidence that's been presented, if you're going to point the

2:18:40 Speaker 24: American people to one piece of evidence to start their

2:18:44 Speaker 24: journey on this topic, what.

2:18:46 Speaker 12: Would you suggest, sir?

2:18:51 Speaker 10: One piece of evidence?

2:18:55 Speaker 6: I would I would start with this hearing in the cheering.

2:19:02 Speaker 10: There is no evidence, but.

2:19:04 Speaker 24: Is there a specific exactly? But is there a specific

2:19:06 Speaker 24: evidence or footage or document that you think lends extreme

2:19:11 Speaker 24: credibility to what we're talking discussing today?

2:19:13 Speaker 6: I would say this new video we're seeing today is

2:19:16 Speaker 6: exceptional evidence that we're dealing with something but the.

2:19:19 Speaker 24: Kinetic Yes, mister Wiggins, Sir, I'd have to say that.

2:19:25 Speaker 7: If just the average person here in America looked at

2:19:29 Speaker 7: absolutely everything that has come across television, the Internet, et cetera,

2:19:34 Speaker 7: you can't tell yourself that one hundred percent of what's

2:19:36 Speaker 7: being recorded as fake or false. You have to at

2:19:40 Speaker 7: some point understand that there's something else out there.

2:19:44 Speaker 24: Well, I mean, and you bring an entering point. You know,

2:19:45 Speaker 24: in the law enforcement community, anytime you're conducting investigation, you're

2:19:49 Speaker 24: always looking at the totality of the circumstances. You're looking

2:19:52 Speaker 24: at all the evidence evidence and how they piece together.

2:19:55 Speaker 24: And so that would be my you know, advice to

2:19:58 Speaker 24: the American people that this is a journey that is

2:20:02 Speaker 24: just beginning from a congressional perspective, but you have decades

2:20:07 Speaker 24: of data, some of it not real, much of it is.

2:20:10 Speaker 24: But thanks to Chairwoman Luna, we're now presenting this to

2:20:14 Speaker 24: the American people, and I think this latest video from

2:20:17 Speaker 24: mister Burlason is something that should get everyone pause when

2:20:21 Speaker 24: you think when you see the three orbs that drop,

2:20:23 Speaker 24: was that in a defensive posture or was that in

2:20:26 Speaker 24: an offensive posture? And what capabilities did those orbs have

2:20:29 Speaker 24: that we quite frankly may not have mister Napp.

2:20:35 Speaker 9: As I mentioned at the beginning of my remarks, what

2:20:37 Speaker 9: hooked me on the story was the paper trail, these

2:20:39 Speaker 9: documents that shouldn't exist. We've been told for decades over

2:20:42 Speaker 9: and over, there's nothing to it. It's not a threat.

2:20:45 Speaker 9: You can go about your business. And then when FOYA

2:20:48 Speaker 9: becomes the law of the land, thousands of pages to

2:20:51 Speaker 9: the contrary leak out. There's a memo by General Nathan

2:20:55 Speaker 9: Twining in nineteen forty seven when the country was being

2:20:58 Speaker 9: overflown by dozens of UFOs, hundreds of UFOs, in which

2:21:02 Speaker 9: he said, look, this is not a visionary or fictitious,

2:21:06 Speaker 9: it's real. These things are craft, they're not ours. They

2:21:09 Speaker 9: outperform anything we've got. I mean, if you followed the

2:21:12 Speaker 9: paper trail of documents that they wrote before the military

2:21:16 Speaker 9: got wise and realized that FOYER really exists and changed

2:21:19 Speaker 9: their tune and not put things in writing, it spells

2:21:22 Speaker 9: it out pretty clearly. I'll go refer back to Russia.

2:21:26 Speaker 9: One incident I did not mention that represent Burlson is

2:21:29 Speaker 9: there are Colonel Sokolov in that Ministry Defense program said

2:21:33 Speaker 9: there were forty incidents where Russian warplanes were sent to

2:21:37 Speaker 9: intercept UFOs, and they were ordered to fire on them,

2:21:40 Speaker 9: and for the most part, the UFOs would zip away.

2:21:43 Speaker 9: Three of the pilots, though, did fire at these things.

2:21:45 Speaker 9: Those three planes stalled out, crashed. Two of those pilots died,

2:21:49 Speaker 9: and after that the Russians changed the standing order. If

2:21:52 Speaker 9: you see a UFO, leave them alone. No country in

2:21:54 Speaker 9: the world wants to say and admit that these objects

2:21:57 Speaker 9: are flying around in our airspace and there's nothing we

2:21:59 Speaker 9: can do about it. I mean, who wants to say that.

2:22:01 Speaker 9: The US certainly doesn't. The Russians didn't either, and I've

2:22:04 Speaker 9: got to be almost out of time. But mister Berlin,

2:22:06 Speaker 9: then you.

2:22:07 Speaker 12: Sir, really quickly.

2:22:09 Speaker 10: Yeah, to be honest with you, I think Bob Blazar,

2:22:11 Speaker 10: and not for the reasons that most would talk about,

2:22:14 Speaker 10: mainly because Bob Blazar was immediately discredited. They said he

2:22:18 Speaker 10: never worked where he worked, they said he never did

2:22:20 Speaker 10: what he did. But yet Bob Blazar showed up with

2:22:22 Speaker 10: a bunch of friends in a video camera and was

2:22:24 Speaker 10: filming these test flights in the middle of the desert,

2:22:27 Speaker 10: so clearly he knew something.

2:22:31 Speaker 9: Madam Chairman, if I'm out of time, I You'll bet

2:22:33 Speaker 9: thank you very.

2:22:33 Speaker 1: Much representative ogles. I'd like to go back now on

2:22:36 Speaker 1: our lightning run of questioning to represented Burchett and then Burlsen.

2:22:42 Speaker 1: Burchette always number one.

2:22:45 Speaker 14: As well. I should be number one in your heart,

2:22:49 Speaker 14: number four thirty five on the chart.

2:22:51 Speaker 17: That's me, uh, Dylan, knowing you testified to arrow. Are

2:22:58 Speaker 17: they objuscating when they claim to have discovered no evidence

2:23:02 Speaker 17: of extraterrestrial beings, activity, or technology?

2:23:05 Speaker 14: And are they lyned in the American public?

2:23:08 Speaker 10: As I said before, it's a manipulation of the public perception.

2:23:12 Speaker 10: The statement scientific evidence of extraterrestrials is a true statement.

2:23:17 Speaker 10: It is not the truth about what is happening and

2:23:20 Speaker 10: what we have.

2:23:23 Speaker 17: DiDia like a comment on that further, mister Natt, It

2:23:27 Speaker 17: was edgy.

2:23:28 Speaker 9: It's splitting hairs. No proof that they're extraterrestrials. What would

2:23:31 Speaker 9: that proof look like a piece of kryptonite? What would

2:23:34 Speaker 9: it be? I mean, we could be talking about different

2:23:37 Speaker 9: forms of non human intelligence. I think the dominant paradigm

2:23:40 Speaker 9: is that they come from outer space, somewhere else, and

2:23:43 Speaker 9: they have some way that they can cross those vast

2:23:45 Speaker 9: distances that we can't even imagine doing, but not necessarily.

2:23:49 Speaker 9: That's not necessarily the answer, So asking for proof of

2:23:52 Speaker 9: extraterrestrials might not be the answer at all. It's splitting hairs.

2:23:55 Speaker 9: You know, we don't know where they're from. I don't

2:23:58 Speaker 9: know anyone who knows the answer for sure. They call

2:24:00 Speaker 9: them aliens just as a placekeeper kind of a word.

2:24:02 Speaker 9: But no one in all these programs who study this

2:24:05 Speaker 9: stuff for years, people with much bigger brains than mine,

2:24:08 Speaker 9: knows the answer for sure.

2:24:10 Speaker 17: I've talked to navy folks that some of the deep

2:24:12 Speaker 17: sea areas they think there might be something there that

2:24:15 Speaker 17: they're here, and I don't know when they got here.

2:24:18 Speaker 17: Another point that needs to be made is every time,

2:24:21 Speaker 17: you know, we say we're going to back engineer or

2:24:23 Speaker 17: whatever you want to call it, these craft, I always say,

2:24:27 Speaker 17: like it'd be like if you took a ride motorcycles.

2:24:30 Speaker 14: But if you took like an Indian or a Harley.

2:24:32 Speaker 17: To the people that came over here on the Mayflower,

2:24:35 Speaker 17: you know, they'd see a bright, shiny object. They might

2:24:38 Speaker 17: polish it, you know, they might, they might get it started.

2:24:42 Speaker 17: I doubt they could. They couldn't. They couldn't work on it,

2:24:46 Speaker 17: They couldn't put fuel they wouldn't be able to have

2:24:48 Speaker 17: the capability of putting fuel in it. I just think

2:24:50 Speaker 17: that that's you know, we're just we're scratching at something

2:24:53 Speaker 17: that we don't have any knowledge of, and that's why it's.

2:24:57 Speaker 14: Just taking so dad come long. But they do know.

2:25:00 Speaker 17: First one that cracks that code, it's it's over. I mean,

2:25:05 Speaker 17: it's it's it's energy, it's power, it's everything. And I

2:25:09 Speaker 17: worry too that in the wrong hands that they do

2:25:11 Speaker 17: that they keep it from the rest of us because

2:25:14 Speaker 17: they're so invested in whatever energy sources we have here.

2:25:18 Speaker 17: If they're billionaire, buddies are going to profit and they

2:25:21 Speaker 17: can't and they can't retool because they know once it's

2:25:25 Speaker 17: out on the internet, it's over. And so I think

2:25:28 Speaker 17: there's a lot of things going after and I think

2:25:30 Speaker 17: that's why the move to discredit folks is so rapid too.

2:25:34 Speaker 14: I think, you know, they're just they point to them

2:25:36 Speaker 14: and they put the dogs on them, and it disgusts me.

2:25:40 Speaker 9: There's a price to be paid for that too. The

2:25:42 Speaker 9: Russians and Chinese are trying to figure this out as well,

2:25:44 Speaker 9: but they don't have the same kind of stigma. They

2:25:46 Speaker 9: tell their best scientists and engineers get in there and

2:25:49 Speaker 9: work on it, and they've been doing it for a

2:25:51 Speaker 9: very long time. I'd have a head start on us here.

2:25:54 Speaker 9: We don't have our best scientists and engineers working on

2:25:56 Speaker 9: it because they've been told it's nonsense. The stigma is

2:25:59 Speaker 9: very real for people like that.

2:26:01 Speaker 14: I agree, you'll back ch your lady.

2:26:03 Speaker 1: Thank you, and now like to recognize Representative Burlison.

2:26:08 Speaker 20: Mister Nucatelli. When you heard the testimony of mister Napp

2:26:15 Speaker 20: talking about that these missiles were shut down or turned

2:26:19 Speaker 20: on in Russia, does that remind you or can you

2:26:25 Speaker 20: hear these stories? It's got to remind you of the

2:26:27 Speaker 20: event that happened on your base.

2:26:31 Speaker 12: Absolutely.

2:26:31 Speaker 6: There are many many accounts of incursions of this tiger

2:26:36 Speaker 6: lock taking place. I believe in the sixties we had

2:26:39 Speaker 6: a similar incursion in New England and the same thing happened.

2:26:43 Speaker 6: There were these objects coming over the base at low

2:26:46 Speaker 6: altitude two hundred feet over the base security police and

2:26:50 Speaker 6: they were scrambling fighters and then the objects would just

2:26:53 Speaker 6: fly off and that went on for weeks. So the

2:26:56 Speaker 6: historical record has laid out that there's a pattern that

2:26:59 Speaker 6: are our installations are visited.

2:27:01 Speaker 21: By these craft.

2:27:03 Speaker 6: You know, they come in and do whatever they're doing,

2:27:06 Speaker 6: and then they leave and we don't know how to respond.

2:27:09 Speaker 6: We don't know how to protect the installation. So that's

2:27:13 Speaker 6: why we're here.

2:27:14 Speaker 20: When you first heard and we're having to report on

2:27:17 Speaker 20: these incidents that were being witnessed by other individuals. Did

2:27:21 Speaker 20: you find did you believe them? Did you yourself believe

2:27:25 Speaker 20: it would be true until you saw it.

2:27:26 Speaker 6: These are people I've worked with for years, deployed with.

2:27:31 Speaker 6: You know, I was in some of the weddings. These

2:27:32 Speaker 6: are people that I work with every day of my life.

2:27:35 Speaker 6: Usually when the events were occurring, we were all together,

2:27:39 Speaker 6: you know, there'd be forty sixty one hundred people on

2:27:42 Speaker 6: duty during these encounters.

2:27:43 Speaker 20: Really, yeah, all seeing it at the same time.

2:27:46 Speaker 6: Yes, these were these encounters were playing out while we

2:27:49 Speaker 6: were on duty, and we were responding and investigating in

2:27:55 Speaker 6: real time as they occur.

2:27:56 Speaker 20: And as you said, the importance of your operation was

2:28:00 Speaker 20: highly important, because they said it is the most important

2:28:03 Speaker 20: in twenty five years, the research that you were conducting.

2:28:07 Speaker 6: For that particular launch, we had five hundred Air Force

2:28:11 Speaker 6: Police officers guarding the launch, five hundred people.

2:28:15 Speaker 21: It was that critical.

2:28:16 Speaker 6: Wow, but I had this thing showed up, we wouldn't

2:28:18 Speaker 6: have been able to do anything to event.

2:28:21 Speaker 1: It's showing up real quickly. Can you just redescribe size

2:28:24 Speaker 1: and whether or not you heard anything? It was pubic wise, the.

2:28:28 Speaker 6: Two square objects were at least as large as a

2:28:32 Speaker 6: football field. The second encounter, they think it was much

2:28:36 Speaker 6: larger than a football field. We're talking like build flying buildings.

2:28:40 Speaker 6: The object I saw was about thirty feet in diameter.

2:28:43 Speaker 1: And to confirm you were not the only person that

2:28:44 Speaker 1: saw this, correct? I think I was also told that

2:28:47 Speaker 1: there was also reports of this in a police blotterer

2:28:50 Speaker 1: in the area.

2:28:51 Speaker 6: Can you confirm that, yes, that's the documentation that I

2:28:55 Speaker 6: maintained from the original event and turned into air.

2:29:02 Speaker 1: Do you have any more?

2:29:03 Speaker 20: No, and I'm sure. I just want to reiterate to

2:29:06 Speaker 20: the American people that if you're frustrated, so were we.

2:29:10 Speaker 20: We're extremely frustrated. We've been, you know, the two three years.

2:29:14 Speaker 20: I can only imagine how frustrated mister Nap is or

2:29:17 Speaker 20: or Danny Sheehan is and the amount of time that

2:29:20 Speaker 20: you guys have poured into this to try to get answers.

2:29:23 Speaker 20: I mean, my song is back there he's been pouring

2:29:25 Speaker 20: to try to get answers into this were I hope

2:29:29 Speaker 20: that you all see that we're committed to this and

2:29:32 Speaker 20: we're gonna be scrappy about it. We may not have

2:29:34 Speaker 20: the direct authority, but I can assure you Representative Luna

2:29:39 Speaker 20: is about as scrappy as it gets. I wouldn't want

2:29:42 Speaker 20: to scrap with her. But that being said, I think

2:29:45 Speaker 20: that if if the American people want to see answers,

2:29:48 Speaker 20: we need to action. We've had the hearings, it's time

2:29:51 Speaker 20: to take action. It's time that we pass Tim Burchett's

2:29:55 Speaker 20: u A Whistleblower Act, It's time that we passed the

2:29:58 Speaker 20: UAP Disclosure Act. And I think that we've had a

2:30:02 Speaker 20: lot of talk about this, it's time for action.

2:30:06 Speaker 1: Thank you, Brolson. I would now like to yield thirty

2:30:19 Speaker 1: minutes to Representative Crockett. I'll reserve. Thank you. In closing.

2:30:25 Speaker 1: I want to thank our witnesses once again for their

2:30:27 Speaker 1: testimony today. I now yield to Ranking Member Crockett for

2:30:30 Speaker 1: closing remarks. I'll pass.

2:30:35 Speaker 10: No.

2:30:36 Speaker 2: I just want to say thank you so much to

2:30:37 Speaker 2: each and every one of you for being here today,

2:30:40 Speaker 2: for saying committed to this and for your courage. I

2:30:44 Speaker 2: truly believe that courage is contagious, and right now we

2:30:48 Speaker 2: need more courage than ever, whether it's UAPs or whether

2:30:52 Speaker 2: we're dealing with any other form of government where people

2:30:55 Speaker 2: are afraid to come out and speak their truth.

2:30:59 Speaker 1: The American people.

2:31:00 Speaker 2: Are relying on amazing public servants like you to speak

2:31:04 Speaker 2: up on their behalf, to be the watchdog and to

2:31:08 Speaker 2: make sure that we are as safe as possible. And

2:31:12 Speaker 2: so thank you so much again for conducting a by

2:31:15 Speaker 2: partisan hearing on such an important matter.

2:31:19 Speaker 1: Thank you. I now like to recognize myself for some

2:31:22 Speaker 1: closing remarks. This is obviously something that doesn't just affect

2:31:26 Speaker 1: everyone in this room. I can tell you that specifically

2:31:29 Speaker 1: for where I represent in Panel's County, Tampa Bay, and

2:31:31 Speaker 1: Florida as a whole. There's many sidings, many questions people

2:31:34 Speaker 1: reporting this, but I'm not the only one. I was

2:31:36 Speaker 1: also told by Representative Biggs as well as you know,

2:31:40 Speaker 1: our great representative from Alaska that these are not isolated instances,

2:31:44 Speaker 1: and so it does bring give us reasoning to provide

2:31:48 Speaker 1: investigative inquiry into these topics, but also to I would

2:31:52 Speaker 1: also like mister Spielberger if you could actually review and

2:31:55 Speaker 1: see if your organization would endorse the Whistleblower Protection Act

2:31:58 Speaker 1: that Representative Birchet has. I can tell you that I

2:32:01 Speaker 1: will be signing onto a letter as well as I'm

2:32:03 Speaker 1: sure many other members of this task course, and we

2:32:05 Speaker 1: hope that the ranking chairwoman or my colleague here, Representative Crockett,

2:32:11 Speaker 1: as well as our Democrats that we're here today consider

2:32:13 Speaker 1: also signing onto that as we do feel that it

2:32:15 Speaker 1: is time to ensure that our whistleblowers are given adequate

2:32:19 Speaker 1: protections and that people like mister Borland are not facing

2:32:22 Speaker 1: retribution in the way that they have been. With that

2:32:25 Speaker 1: being said, with all that and without objection, all members

2:32:28 Speaker 1: have five legislative days within to submit materials and additional

2:32:31 Speaker 1: written questions for with the witnesses, and which will be

2:32:34 Speaker 1: also affwarded to those witnesses if there are no further business.

2:32:37 Speaker 1: Without objection, I like to now recognize Representative Burchette for

2:32:42 Speaker 1: a closing room.

2:32:43 Speaker 17: I would just like to thank the ranking Member and

2:32:45 Speaker 17: the chair Lady for their courage.

2:32:47 Speaker 14: This is a tough issue.

2:32:48 Speaker 17: We all catch hail for it, and it's uh, but

2:32:53 Speaker 17: it's but it's gratifying that we're here in a bipartisan

2:32:56 Speaker 17: nature and the way this meeting was conducted, and I

2:32:58 Speaker 17: want to thank y'all for your courage.

2:32:59 Speaker 14: Thank you.

2:33:07 Speaker 1: M without objection, the Task Force stands durned. M.

2:34:20 Speaker 5: Yeah.