UFO Researcher Philip Mantle drops GROUNDBREAKING New Evidence in 1973 Pascagoula Alien Abduction Case

0:27 Speaker 1: D A.

0:35 Speaker 2: I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would

0:39 Speaker 2: vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside

0:42 Speaker 2: this work. And yet I asked you, it's not an

0:44 Speaker 2: alien force already amongst.

0:46 Speaker 3: We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether

0:50 Speaker 3: sought or unsold by the military, industrial conduct potential or

0:54 Speaker 3: the disastrous rise or misplaced power exists and will persist.

1:18 Speaker 4: Now I am become death drawer of world.

1:21 Speaker 3: In my association with Project Group, they definitely withheld information.

1:31 Speaker 4: Have a look on the essay.

1:33 Speaker 1: We're all going against the way.

1:36 Speaker 4: You shall be twayer. We're firm the destiny. You're about

1:39 Speaker 4: to give us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing

1:41 Speaker 4: the truth. So help you God. Do you believe that

1:43 Speaker 4: our government is in possession of the ages? Absolutely?

1:54 Speaker 1: All right, Welcome back to total disclosure, UFOs cover ups

1:59 Speaker 1: and conses, where the search for truth knows no limits.

2:04 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Ty Roberts, and tonight we'd go deep

2:07 Speaker 1: into a case that I think shattered everything we thought

2:11 Speaker 1: we knew about alien contact. In nineteen seventy three, two

2:16 Speaker 1: men from Mississippi, Calvin Parker and Charles Hickson, reported being

2:21 Speaker 1: taken a boortocraft by entities unlike anything ever seen before.

2:27 Speaker 1: Skeptics scoffed, authorities doubted, but the evidence never waned. It

2:33 Speaker 1: never went away. Decades later, with hypnotic regression polygraphs, multiple

2:39 Speaker 1: corroborating witnesses, and one man who was determined to seek

2:44 Speaker 1: out the truth, the Pasca Gula incident stands as one

2:48 Speaker 1: of the most credible, most investigated, and most unsettling alien

2:54 Speaker 1: abductions in history. Tonight or today, we're joined by the

2:58 Speaker 1: man who has done more than anyone other than Calvin

3:02 Speaker 1: Parker and Charles Hickson themselves to bring the full story

3:05 Speaker 1: to light. My one of my best friends in this

3:10 Speaker 1: UFO field, and I think a man who's morals are unwavering.

3:15 Speaker 1: Philip Mantle, veteran researcher, publisher, and co author of Beyond

3:20 Speaker 1: a Reasonable Doubt UH with doctor Irena Scott, which I

3:24 Speaker 1: have right here, the definitive investigation into this case. Buckle up, everyone,

3:31 Speaker 1: because of what you're abody here could redefine your perception

3:35 Speaker 1: of what is real. Welcome back, man, Welcome back. Oh

3:46 Speaker 1: my god, it's been so long, Phil.

3:48 Speaker 4: Yeah, good evening, Tyler, and let's just speak to you again.

3:52 Speaker 1: It's for anyone who doesn't know, I'd say, what for

3:56 Speaker 1: the past six seven months, you've been, you know, kind

4:01 Speaker 1: of taking a step back for medical reasons. So I

4:06 Speaker 1: just I want to say thank you for doing this

4:08 Speaker 1: and thank you for everything you've done for the community.

4:12 Speaker 1: And it's it's really good to see you up and

4:15 Speaker 1: about my friend.

4:17 Speaker 4: Yeah, my pleasure. It's great to be here.

4:20 Speaker 5: Yeah.

4:20 Speaker 4: I can assure you.

4:23 Speaker 1: Better than laying on the couch just watching the world

4:26 Speaker 1: go by, and.

4:28 Speaker 4: That lying in the hospital bed.

4:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would go so stir crazy, like within the

4:34 Speaker 1: first couple of minutes, I would be like, no, this

4:36 Speaker 1: I can't. I'd start doing live shows from the hospital.

4:39 Speaker 1: I give you better.

4:40 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it wasn't a pleasant I've been

4:43 Speaker 4: in hospital before, but what's December. I was in hospital

4:47 Speaker 4: for ten days and I wasn't well at all. But

4:52 Speaker 4: one good thing apart from me getting out hospital, came about.

4:57 Speaker 4: I'll just tell you the little story so then we

5:00 Speaker 4: else's you know, hospitalized. It can be positives from it.

5:04 Speaker 4: Where I live in the County of West Yorkshire in England.

5:08 Speaker 4: I live in a little town called Pontifact. It has

5:12 Speaker 4: a famous house that's supposedly haunted. There's been lots of

5:17 Speaker 4: documentaries about it. People keep going there and things like that.

5:21 Speaker 4: Now that the house originally is what we call a

5:24 Speaker 4: council house. It was owned by the town and you,

5:28 Speaker 4: you know, you rented it out and lived there. Just

5:31 Speaker 4: so happens. In the same hospital ward as me, was

5:37 Speaker 4: a guy called Bill. It was one hundred years of

5:40 Speaker 4: age and he was the first ever resident of that

5:45 Speaker 4: particular haunted house. Now, so, yeah, it was built and

5:50 Speaker 4: him and his wife moved in. And Bill had spent

5:55 Speaker 4: a long time in the military. It was at d

5:58 Speaker 4: Day for example. Once his military time was already became

6:03 Speaker 4: a fireman, so he worked long hours, you know. And

6:08 Speaker 4: he said, most of the time I would be away

6:10 Speaker 4: from home because I'm working night shift or whatever. And

6:14 Speaker 4: he said the house was brand new, nobody had lived there.

6:18 Speaker 4: So he put wallpaper on the walls, and the next

6:22 Speaker 4: morning when he got up, all the way wallpaper is

6:25 Speaker 4: on the floor, and he says, I know how to wallpaper.

6:29 Speaker 4: I've done it a thousand times. And then his wife

6:32 Speaker 4: kept complaining to him that he was moving things in

6:36 Speaker 4: the house, and he said, I couldn't possibly have moved

6:40 Speaker 4: it because I was at work, you know, I was

6:43 Speaker 4: a fireman out in the fire department. They only staying

6:47 Speaker 4: in the house for eight weeks and he came home

6:50 Speaker 4: one one weekend and his wife says, don't worry about it.

6:56 Speaker 4: I've sorted it. We're moving. She planned the move while

6:59 Speaker 4: he was at work. So he was the first ever

7:01 Speaker 4: resident of this haunted house. And it was one hundred

7:05 Speaker 4: years of age Bill, you know, And I just found

7:08 Speaker 4: that out by you know, there's only eight of us

7:11 Speaker 4: on this little ward. We're all chatting about things, you know,

7:15 Speaker 4: got no TV or anything like that. And Bill told

7:18 Speaker 4: us the story about that, so that was the same. Yeah.

7:25 Speaker 4: He also told wartime adventures and d Day and playing

7:29 Speaker 4: football and being in the fire department and you know,

7:34 Speaker 4: and I just so happened that, you know, this came

7:37 Speaker 4: up in conversation and he told me the story.

7:40 Speaker 1: Do you And you're pretty I mean, you're kind of

7:42 Speaker 1: like me where you're very You're not like you don't

7:47 Speaker 1: believe everything that everyone says just because they say it.

7:50 Speaker 1: So what's your what was your sense about it? Like,

7:55 Speaker 1: did you believe that?

7:56 Speaker 3: Well?

7:56 Speaker 4: I asked, I asked him. I said, you know, I

7:59 Speaker 4: know what I know the house. I know where it

8:01 Speaker 4: is because this is only a small town, Tyler, right,

8:05 Speaker 4: And I said, did these things really happen? Bill? He

8:09 Speaker 4: said yeah, And he said my wife couldn't get out

8:12 Speaker 4: of there quick enough. We only stayed in the house

8:15 Speaker 4: for eight weeks. And he said she organized the move

8:19 Speaker 4: without me knowing. I came home from work and she said,

8:23 Speaker 4: we're going. And that was it, you know, you know,

8:27 Speaker 4: because you know, there was only eight of us in

8:31 Speaker 4: this ward with no TV. So you're lying there all day,

8:35 Speaker 4: board stiff. So on an evening when when it cat

8:40 Speaker 4: were quiet and down a bit, we would start and

8:42 Speaker 4: have a chat and talk about you know, football and

8:45 Speaker 4: rugby that they used to play. Bill was one hundred

8:48 Speaker 4: years of age, you know, and it was one hundred

8:52 Speaker 4: and one in January. I hope he got there because

8:55 Speaker 4: I thankfully I was out of there before his birthday

8:58 Speaker 4: came up. You know. It was a fascinating man in himself, Tyler.

9:04 Speaker 4: But what what I'm doing emphasizes this. She's kind of

9:07 Speaker 4: what the pastor Gooler case has been all about. We've

9:10 Speaker 4: been asking the questions, you know, and putting me putting,

9:15 Speaker 4: putting the information out there and getting feedback sometimes completely

9:21 Speaker 4: out of the blue, a lot of times with help

9:23 Speaker 4: from our colleagues and witnesses and so and this was

9:28 Speaker 4: like that. But in you know, in a little hospital

9:31 Speaker 4: water it was just chatting to the fella on an evening,

9:33 Speaker 4: you know, to pass the time. So it shows my mum,

9:37 Speaker 4: God rest her shows us to have a saying tyler.

9:41 Speaker 4: She said, you'll never get lost so long as you

9:44 Speaker 4: have a tongue in your head. In other words, you

9:46 Speaker 4: can always ask your way home. So you always as

9:50 Speaker 4: always be nice, always talk to people, and when it

9:53 Speaker 4: comes to this subject and individual cases, do exactly the same.

9:58 Speaker 4: Just ask the questions and see what happens.

10:01 Speaker 1: Right And and you know, pretty if you ask the

10:06 Speaker 1: right questions, you know it's it's not it's if you're

10:12 Speaker 1: asking the right questions, you'll be able to see through

10:15 Speaker 1: the bullshitters. I mean, there are people that are just

10:17 Speaker 1: like super talented liars. I mean, we we know, I

10:23 Speaker 1: won't name names, but we definitely know some people that

10:26 Speaker 1: know how to talk the talk, uh and get you

10:30 Speaker 1: to believe what they're saying. And but most people, if

10:34 Speaker 1: you're asking the right questions, they're gonna slip up they're

10:36 Speaker 1: gonna the details aren't going to be right, they're gonna change.

10:40 Speaker 1: And you've always been really good about I want to

10:44 Speaker 1: start off before we get into pasta goula. Uh, there's

10:47 Speaker 1: such the anniversary just came up for it, which is

10:50 Speaker 1: why I even bring it up. But the the alien

10:53 Speaker 1: autopsy hoax just had the anniversary. You were like a

10:59 Speaker 1: pit bull chasing chasing a mailman with this thing, and

11:05 Speaker 1: you got to the bottom of it. Can you for

11:07 Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't know, can you explain what the alien

11:12 Speaker 1: autopsy was? What you did?

11:16 Speaker 4: Ustry is actually this August August twenty seventh as well. Yeah,

11:22 Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety five. It was shown around the world

11:25 Speaker 4: on August twenty seventh. What happened was Silo Back in

11:30 Speaker 4: nineteen ninety three, Iborn, Yeah, among other things. I was

11:37 Speaker 4: press officer for the British UFO Research Association and there

11:42 Speaker 4: was no email in those days. It was still paper.

11:46 Speaker 4: And I got a letter one day from a company

11:48 Speaker 4: in London called the Marlin Group, just asking if we

11:53 Speaker 4: could help make a documentary. And I wrote back, sent

11:58 Speaker 4: them some information and they come back to me and

12:02 Speaker 4: what they were looking for was to license film video

12:08 Speaker 4: you know, photographs. We didn't have material that we could license,

12:13 Speaker 4: but I knew companies that did. I put them in

12:15 Speaker 4: touch and the guy who run the company was a

12:18 Speaker 4: gentleman called Race Antilly, and we started talking about, you know,

12:23 Speaker 4: in general, about his documentary, and then out of the

12:28 Speaker 4: blue he said, oh, I've actually got film footage of

12:34 Speaker 4: the aliens being dissected at Roswell. He didn't call it

12:39 Speaker 4: Roswell to begin with tality, called it rose Well. And

12:44 Speaker 4: I said, well that's great, you know, show me, simple thing.

12:49 Speaker 4: If anybody, if anybody makes that kind of you know,

12:54 Speaker 4: if anybody claims they've got something or have seen something,

12:57 Speaker 4: was that fine? Show me And he said, yes, I can't. No,

13:02 Speaker 4: I can't, Yes, I can no. Camp The same year

13:06 Speaker 4: was the release of the movie Firing the Sky Tells

13:10 Speaker 4: the Travis Walton Story. Now. I was hired by the

13:13 Speaker 4: PR Company to help promote the movie, and one of

13:16 Speaker 4: the things I did I hosted Travis Walton and Mike

13:20 Speaker 4: Rodgers in a presentation they gave in London one evening,

13:26 Speaker 4: and then we had a press conference afterwards, and I

13:30 Speaker 4: invited to raise Santillion because his officers were in London

13:33 Speaker 4: and they weren't actually far from where we were having

13:35 Speaker 4: this event, and I met him and then he told

13:39 Speaker 4: me about, oh, you know, I was in America looking

13:42 Speaker 4: for old film footage of Elvis and Pat Boone and

13:45 Speaker 4: that kind of stuff, and I bought some off an

13:48 Speaker 4: old boy, and he came back to me and said

13:51 Speaker 4: he'd been in the military and he had some film

13:53 Speaker 4: of Roswell. Was I interested? And he claimed he and

13:58 Speaker 4: he bought it so again, and I said, fine, you know,

14:02 Speaker 4: show me right. So this went on and we weren't

14:06 Speaker 4: getting anywhere, and well, yeah, if anybody makes a claim,

14:12 Speaker 4: I've got pictures, I've got documentabile the simple thing, then

14:16 Speaker 4: show me. Anyway, we move forward to nineteen ninety five

14:22 Speaker 4: and the movie Roswell was being released here by Sony

14:27 Speaker 4: on video that was made by Paul David and they'd

14:33 Speaker 4: actually sent us a copy for review. So and it

14:36 Speaker 4: prompted me to think about this guy Santilli again. So

14:40 Speaker 4: I had his phone number. I phoned him mob and

14:43 Speaker 4: I said, have you still got that that film? You

14:46 Speaker 4: claim to have the Roswell film? He says yes, but

14:48 Speaker 4: you don't believe me, Philip, so I said, show me.

14:53 Speaker 4: So he said okay, make an appointment with my secretary

15:00 Speaker 4: on down. I lived two hundred miles north of London.

15:03 Speaker 4: Nothing for an American isn't two hundred miles. I know that,

15:06 Speaker 4: but here it's a long way. So my wife and

15:09 Speaker 4: I drove down to meet Race antille Is at his

15:12 Speaker 4: office and he popped a video in the machine and

15:17 Speaker 4: there was a piece of grainy film with a creature

15:20 Speaker 4: on a slab and two men in white coats. He

15:23 Speaker 4: called it the tent footage. He said these were where

15:26 Speaker 4: the aliens were put into a field tent before being

15:30 Speaker 4: shipped away. So I thought break Not only that, Tyler.

15:34 Speaker 4: He gave me a copy. He gave me a copy.

15:38 Speaker 4: I had a copy on VHS. I took it home

15:41 Speaker 4: with me and then we made an appointment. He says,

15:44 Speaker 4: I've got some more being processed. So in the coming weeks,

15:48 Speaker 4: my wife and I gave drove down to London. Eventually

15:52 Speaker 4: we saw two other autopsies. He just showed her a

15:55 Speaker 4: still of one of them. There is another autopsy film

16:00 Speaker 4: where the creature isn't damaged, you know, its legs are intact.

16:03 Speaker 4: It's a bit brighter. And then he showed us some wreckage.

16:07 Speaker 4: So I said to Ray Santilly, what do you intend

16:11 Speaker 4: to do with this film? And he said, I'm going

16:14 Speaker 4: to make my own documentary and We're going to release

16:17 Speaker 4: it on video, right, and you'll buy it from me

16:19 Speaker 4: or you buy it in your local video store. You know. Now,

16:24 Speaker 4: I was just thinking on my feet. I thought, this

16:27 Speaker 4: film needs to get out into the open. That way

16:31 Speaker 4: we'll find out more about it. I was also puing

16:35 Speaker 4: for as conference organizer, so that year, in nineteen ninety five,

16:40 Speaker 4: I already had a conference all set up for August

16:43 Speaker 4: in the city of Sheffield in South Yorkshire. So I

16:47 Speaker 4: just said to the Ray Santilli, will you show the

16:49 Speaker 4: film at our conference? And he said yeah. There was

16:53 Speaker 4: no contract, there was no money involved with Shook Hands,

16:56 Speaker 4: just a jaman. Yeah. Yeah. And just by Luke the

17:04 Speaker 4: story got out. I let slip to a journalist about

17:06 Speaker 4: the film and it just went bananas. Titler. I mean,

17:12 Speaker 4: this was you won't remember because you said it's the

17:15 Speaker 4: year you were born.

17:16 Speaker 5: Yeah.

17:18 Speaker 4: The X Files was at its height, Yeah, absolutely, Roswell.

17:24 Speaker 4: The anniversary was coming up in a couple of years,

17:27 Speaker 4: so there was also rumblings about that, and you know,

17:31 Speaker 4: I literally got factors and phone calls from TV companies

17:34 Speaker 4: around the world, and I just put them in touch

17:37 Speaker 4: with Sam Tilley. He had a private screening on May

17:41 Speaker 4: the fifth, nineteen ninety five, at a venue in London,

17:45 Speaker 4: and that's when a lot of the journalists made arrangements

17:48 Speaker 4: with him, including Bob Kiveer in the States. And it

17:51 Speaker 4: was Bob who did the Fox documentary Alien Autopsy fact

17:55 Speaker 4: or Fiction, which was so successful they had to do

17:59 Speaker 4: three specials to follow it up.

18:02 Speaker 1: Right, because the demand was so and people forget people.

18:07 Speaker 1: I just I don't mean to cut you off, Phil,

18:10 Speaker 1: but for anyone who doesn't remember or it doesn't isn't

18:14 Speaker 1: realizing this is before the internet's the Internet. This is

18:18 Speaker 1: before the world was connected the way it was connected

18:23 Speaker 1: connected today. So for the demand to be so high

18:27 Speaker 1: on this, I mean, your your the networks were just

18:31 Speaker 1: raking it in at this point.

18:33 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I mean Ray came to our conference,

18:36 Speaker 4: showed the film. I mean, we could have sold the

18:40 Speaker 4: tickets for it, you know, ten times over. I'll give

18:43 Speaker 4: you an example. I think it was the day before

18:47 Speaker 4: I had a phone call from a lady wanting a ticket,

18:50 Speaker 4: and I said, and she was in Washington, DC, and

18:55 Speaker 4: she said, I'm coming anyway, and I said, what's your name?

19:00 Speaker 4: So she gave me. You know, I took her name.

19:02 Speaker 4: My wife was on the door taking the tickets, and

19:04 Speaker 4: I said, if this lady turns up, please find a

19:08 Speaker 4: re seat because I admire her courage. You know, coming

19:13 Speaker 4: all that way right right, you don't guarantee even getting through.

19:17 Speaker 4: And Tyler, she turned up and we had a couple

19:20 Speaker 4: of seats at the back where some of our stewards

19:22 Speaker 4: were set, and I just asked one of them to

19:24 Speaker 4: stand up and sat down. And we had film crews

19:29 Speaker 4: from around the world, even even Chinese TV company turned up.

19:34 Speaker 4: And the following day the film was actually broadcasting around

19:40 Speaker 4: the world, so we were the first to see it

19:42 Speaker 4: in public, but it went on and all the places

19:47 Speaker 4: around the world. And I'm sat there thinking, great, my

19:50 Speaker 4: planners worked. We've got it out. We couldn't have been

19:54 Speaker 4: couldn't have got more coverage for it. And I'm thinking

19:57 Speaker 4: the answers will will start to come in, you know,

20:01 Speaker 4: but nothing, absolutely nothing, nothing came in. I'm thinking somebody's

20:09 Speaker 4: going to come forward and say that's me. I'm an actor,

20:13 Speaker 4: or maybe that's my grandfather told me about this film.

20:17 Speaker 1: Or right right, someone in the production or behind it

20:23 Speaker 1: is going to say, wait, guys, you're taking.

20:25 Speaker 4: Yeah, but nothing, absolutely nothing. So I had to make

20:30 Speaker 4: a decision what to do. You know, all the people

20:33 Speaker 4: saying it's a hoax, that's an easy thing to do.

20:37 Speaker 4: What happened was there was one guy. He accused me

20:40 Speaker 4: of being raised until his accomplice, so he actually accuse

20:45 Speaker 4: me of helping fake it and rake the money in accordingly,

20:49 Speaker 4: and the way he came to that conclusion at the time,

20:53 Speaker 4: my wife and I had a growing family and we

20:57 Speaker 4: were building an extension on.

20:58 Speaker 1: Our house, and he said, you're using the money.

21:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, where does he get the money from? He

21:04 Speaker 4: doesn't have it. Well, I don't know how he knew

21:06 Speaker 4: that in the first place, but it was right. I

21:08 Speaker 4: didn't have it, but my wife did. She'd had her

21:11 Speaker 4: own property before we met, and she'd solved that and

21:15 Speaker 4: we used some of that to build the extension.

21:18 Speaker 1: Which is none of his fuck business in the first place.

21:22 Speaker 4: But he accused me of being an accomplice, so it

21:28 Speaker 4: became personal. So I was determined to get to the

21:31 Speaker 4: bottom of it, no matter what I told Santillie this

21:34 Speaker 4: and he just said, okay, Philip. You know, he didn't

21:36 Speaker 4: bat an eyelid. And so, like I said, I had

21:39 Speaker 4: to make a decision. So what I did, rightly or

21:42 Speaker 4: wrongly in public or in private with Ray Antilley, I

21:46 Speaker 4: supported him. And you know, in the meantime, I'm still

21:51 Speaker 4: digging around in the background to try and find out

21:54 Speaker 4: what happened. And it took a long time, Tyler, we

21:57 Speaker 4: don't have time to go through all that. Bit by bit.

22:04 Speaker 4: I'd find a little bit of information that would lead

22:06 Speaker 4: to something else. Then we'd maybe reach a dead end

22:10 Speaker 4: and then we'd look elsewhere. What I used to say

22:12 Speaker 4: to myself was that every now and again I would

22:16 Speaker 4: shape the alien autopsy treat you see if anything fell

22:19 Speaker 4: out of it, you know. And it took, you know,

22:23 Speaker 4: a lot of years, but eventually we found the man

22:26 Speaker 4: who faked it is a gentleman called Spiros Malaris. Spiros

22:31 Speaker 4: is a filmmaker. It's a magician. He's an entrepreneur. He

22:36 Speaker 4: had his own studio at one point. The man who

22:40 Speaker 4: made the dummies was a sculptor. We've been looking for

22:44 Speaker 4: a special effects expert, and it was a British sculpture

22:47 Speaker 4: called John Humphreys.

22:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're looking at the wrong place because you're

22:52 Speaker 1: you look, you're looking visual effects and like CGI and

22:55 Speaker 1: that thing.

22:56 Speaker 4: But it was practical, yeah, I mean the special effects

23:00 Speaker 4: industry in Britain. He's not large and I started off

23:04 Speaker 4: phone in special effects guys and they say it's not me.

23:07 Speaker 4: Maybe ask so and so. So I go and speak

23:09 Speaker 4: to the next guy. He had no idea and we

23:12 Speaker 4: just never got anywhere. John Humphreys has worked in the

23:16 Speaker 4: film business, film and television, but by profession he is

23:20 Speaker 4: a sculptor, not a special effects artist. So IT'SOK, a

23:24 Speaker 4: long time, but we got there, and you know, Race

23:28 Speaker 4: Antilly changed his story, which is nothing new, you know.

23:32 Speaker 4: And like I said in all yeah, it's the anniversary,

23:38 Speaker 4: so I dare say Ray might have something up his sleeve.

23:41 Speaker 4: I don't. I don't know. I haven't heard from him

23:44 Speaker 4: in a while. But the point is style A lot

23:47 Speaker 4: of people say, yes, hoax, that's easy. That's an easy

23:52 Speaker 4: thing to do, you know, But to prove things out

23:55 Speaker 4: of hopes, as I found with the earlier autopsy film,

24:00 Speaker 4: was a lot more difficult.

24:03 Speaker 1: And that's I think. I think That's what I've always

24:06 Speaker 1: respected about you, Phil is uh, you're not so. One

24:12 Speaker 1: of the things that I think the community has a

24:14 Speaker 1: really big issue with, and and it's it's being humble

24:18 Speaker 1: and admitting when you were wrong and being saying I

24:22 Speaker 1: made a mistake. But we're all fallible in that way.

24:27 Speaker 1: We're all uh perceptib we're all susceptible to you know,

24:33 Speaker 1: kind of like I want to believe you fall into

24:38 Speaker 1: that in some way, some part of your brain, I mean,

24:42 Speaker 1: I think must have filled when you first saw the film.

24:45 Speaker 1: Something in your brain was like, this is either a

24:48 Speaker 1: really really good fake or it might be actually the

24:53 Speaker 1: real thing.

24:53 Speaker 4: Well, you know, the first piece of film I saw

24:56 Speaker 4: hasn't really been on television. It's called the ten Footage,

25:00 Speaker 4: and it's very dark.

25:01 Speaker 1: That's the one from the Darker One.

25:03 Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's very bad.

25:05 Speaker 1: That's real, but not well.

25:07 Speaker 4: It's not I know who made it. I've interviewed who made.

25:10 Speaker 1: It, but these guys right, well no, no.

25:14 Speaker 4: But so you've got a creature on a slab. It's

25:17 Speaker 4: covered up. You can see the head and the hands

25:20 Speaker 4: and the feet. The other side of it are a

25:23 Speaker 4: couple of people in white coats, and they seem to

25:25 Speaker 4: be handling some fleshy like material. There's a lamp hanging up,

25:30 Speaker 4: and somebody walks in front of the camera every now

25:32 Speaker 4: and again with the back towards them, and it's very

25:38 Speaker 4: poor filmed, Tyler, but that's what I expected to see.

25:42 Speaker 4: I was quite happy with that, and I at first thought,

25:46 Speaker 4: that's it, you know, right, because it's supposedly been left

25:50 Speaker 4: in somebody's basement for nearly fifty years.

25:53 Speaker 1: You know, right right then Race until he went on.

25:57 Speaker 4: To say, no, I've got more film, and then we

25:59 Speaker 4: saw the you know, the the more graphic autopsy and

26:03 Speaker 4: then the wreckage. Later on he even produced an interview

26:07 Speaker 4: with the alleged cameraman and that was not surprisingly a

26:10 Speaker 4: fake as well. So we got to the bottom of

26:13 Speaker 4: all these different films, you know. And yeah, so I

26:20 Speaker 4: just thought, well, one of the ideas I had at

26:22 Speaker 4: the beginning when you when you sat in Race until

26:25 Speaker 4: his office, which I had on many occasions. He never

26:28 Speaker 4: made anything himself, Tyler. He was a guy who would

26:32 Speaker 4: buy stuff, would license it. His main income was from.

26:36 Speaker 1: Music, so he was more like a producer more like that.

26:41 Speaker 4: Yeah, but he was a buyer and a seller and

26:43 Speaker 4: licens stuff. For example, I mean his office one day

26:46 Speaker 4: and he's got a shoe box and it's full of

26:48 Speaker 4: photographs of the Beatles that he bought an auction and

26:52 Speaker 4: they'd never been seen before anywhere, so you know, you know,

26:57 Speaker 4: he owned them, so he could license them or sell

27:00 Speaker 4: them or whatever. So I I of I wondered at

27:03 Speaker 4: the beginning maybe somebody had pulled a fast one on him.

27:10 Speaker 4: You know, he bought this stuff and then it turned

27:14 Speaker 4: out not to be real, but it didn't really care

27:17 Speaker 4: any way. That well, I'll go with it, and the

27:20 Speaker 4: film took off. Titler like nobody expected. He had a

27:24 Speaker 4: life of its own, and.

27:26 Speaker 1: That's going to be. That's kind of you know, as

27:29 Speaker 1: a as a as someone who's in media, as someone

27:32 Speaker 1: who's in that business, the business of getting being seen right.

27:38 Speaker 1: That's the biggest thing in media is either being seen

27:41 Speaker 1: or heard right. So when you start getting all this attention,

27:46 Speaker 1: I mean, that's it's like having something going viral. Now,

27:50 Speaker 1: it's the endorphin rush. It it's it's it's easy to

27:56 Speaker 1: maybe sacrifice some of your moral code or morality and

28:02 Speaker 1: you do things that you maybe normally wouldn't. You cross

28:06 Speaker 1: lines you normally wouldn't so you can keep the party going.

28:10 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I just wanted to get to the

28:12 Speaker 4: bottom of it. Whichever way it was.

28:16 Speaker 1: Clearly invested interest in it, well, he.

28:19 Speaker 4: Told, he told, he made no no, no bones about it. Tyler.

28:22 Speaker 4: He said, I want to commercialize the film. It's my film,

28:26 Speaker 4: I own it. I'll do with it as I see

28:28 Speaker 4: fake because I introduced, for example, Race Antilly just Stanton Freeman,

28:35 Speaker 4: and they actually met in London, and Stanton then faxed

28:40 Speaker 4: Ray a number of demands, not requests, a list of demands,

28:48 Speaker 4: and Santilli said, oh is this man? You know that's

28:52 Speaker 4: my film and I'll do with it as I please.

28:56 Speaker 4: So I learned straight away, you know Santilli's character. And

29:00 Speaker 4: had I gone down a similar roupe to Stanton, that

29:04 Speaker 4: would have been the end of it. Talry, he would

29:06 Speaker 4: have just not answered my phone calls anymore. And then

29:09 Speaker 4: of course the internet started, not like it is today.

29:14 Speaker 4: There was no Google or anything like that. But it

29:17 Speaker 4: became the first ever uf UFO battle online with the

29:22 Speaker 4: old green lettering and things like that, and you know,

29:29 Speaker 4: it took off santily. It later on made a movie

29:33 Speaker 4: just called Alien Autopsy and the only thing that is

29:37 Speaker 4: really accurate in that movie is how the film takes

29:40 Speaker 4: off and had a life of its own. And it

29:43 Speaker 4: really did. And you know, Sam Tilly just went with it.

29:49 Speaker 4: He had no idea what's gonna happen. I mean, none

29:51 Speaker 4: of us did. And here we are, thirty years later,

29:54 Speaker 4: still talking about the right.

29:57 Speaker 1: Right, right right, We just spent the first twenty minutes

30:00 Speaker 1: talking about it. So I mean it's clearly kind of

30:04 Speaker 1: taken on, you know, a life of its own, because

30:08 Speaker 1: you know, they're And the reason I think that we

30:10 Speaker 1: do need to bring it up in cases like right now,

30:14 Speaker 1: like me and you talking, is because I mean that

30:17 Speaker 1: footage is still circulating and people are for the first

30:22 Speaker 1: time and then they're not. They don't do their due

30:25 Speaker 1: diligence and check sources. No, they just go, oh wow

30:29 Speaker 1: it that looks cool, that looks real, but they don't

30:33 Speaker 1: know the whole backstory. So that's really col and.

30:36 Speaker 4: It's it's embedded in popular culture now as well. I mean,

30:39 Speaker 4: not that long ago, you could buy an alien autopsy

30:42 Speaker 4: cake in America for how for Halloween it was on

30:46 Speaker 4: the Symptoms, it was on Seinfeld and various other bits

30:50 Speaker 4: and beasts.

30:52 Speaker 1: It was like the original you know the mummies that

30:55 Speaker 1: are going around, the Naska mummies, it's like the original

31:00 Speaker 1: version of that.

31:02 Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's when it's when you saw the so

31:05 Speaker 4: called Roswell slides on veiled in Mexico. When you look

31:09 Speaker 4: at the backstory of how that came about, it's exactly

31:12 Speaker 4: the same as the Alien Autopsy film. It's like the

31:15 Speaker 4: views that as a blueprint for another Roswell fake, which

31:19 Speaker 4: it was, of course. So if there's anybody out there

31:21 Speaker 4: listening now and thinks that the Alien Autopsy film means

31:24 Speaker 4: really in any way, shape or form, let me ensure

31:27 Speaker 4: you it is not. I wish it was. I would

31:30 Speaker 4: have loved it to being authentic, but it's not.

31:34 Speaker 1: And that's there you go, yeah, and there you go.

31:38 Speaker 1: And so we're going to switch over to what, you know,

31:42 Speaker 1: what I think the Crown Jewel something something that's totally

31:47 Speaker 1: opposite in the sense of how it how it turns

31:51 Speaker 1: out right, Because the longer you dive into Pascagoula, the

31:56 Speaker 1: more sure and more I mean, the more of a

32:02 Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt something to quote your title here,

32:07 Speaker 1: the more assured I've become that something crazy something happened

32:13 Speaker 1: that night, and there's it's beyond a reasonable doubt what

32:16 Speaker 1: happened might might not be exactly the same, right, we

32:20 Speaker 1: might have some details off, but something extraordinary happened in

32:25 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. So, in your own own words, Phil,

32:30 Speaker 1: what makes the past Google incident so unique compared to

32:34 Speaker 1: the thousands of other abduction claims throughout the years and

32:39 Speaker 1: throughout that time even specifically, Yeah.

32:45 Speaker 4: We're going back to, of course, what's over the eleventh,

32:47 Speaker 4: nineteen seventy three, and there was very few abduction cases

32:52 Speaker 4: in the public domain at that point, and like then

32:56 Speaker 4: as now, most cases are of a single individual, So

33:02 Speaker 4: it's surely one person on known here we have two

33:04 Speaker 4: and o Betty and Barney Hill, you know. Then there's

33:08 Speaker 4: the location where the location were where they were fishing

33:12 Speaker 4: on the Pascagoula River that night. Is not an out

33:15 Speaker 4: of waste spot. Right opposite them as shipbuilding on the

33:20 Speaker 4: river to the left and to the right there are

33:22 Speaker 4: bridges going across the river, one for traffic I think

33:25 Speaker 4: the other was for rail. Behind them is commercial and

33:29 Speaker 4: residential properties. So it wasn't an out of the way location, no, not.

33:35 Speaker 4: Then we add to that tyler within you know, no

33:41 Speaker 4: no time at all of the incident happening. They're in

33:45 Speaker 4: the Sheriff's department being an interviewed on tape. You know,

33:51 Speaker 4: they were, They were recorded, and we have one of

33:53 Speaker 4: those recordings, we have Charlie Hickson at Jackson County Sheriff's Department.

33:58 Speaker 4: Then both were placed in a room by themselves, and

34:03 Speaker 4: the deputy said, I'm just going to get some coffee.

34:06 Speaker 4: And what they didn't know is they were being secretly recorded.

34:10 Speaker 4: And the deputy came back, retrieved the recording out of

34:13 Speaker 4: the desk in the room next to them, and him

34:18 Speaker 4: and the sheriff played it back and thinking, right, we'll

34:21 Speaker 4: catch them now. They're these two old boys were laughing

34:24 Speaker 4: and joking at us, but of course they weren't. They

34:27 Speaker 4: were crawling up the walls, especially Calvin. Calvin was only eighteen,

34:31 Speaker 4: almost nineteen at the time, as Calvin on the right,

34:34 Speaker 4: and Charlie Hickson was aged forty two, a veteran of

34:37 Speaker 4: the Korean War. So combating career did did Charlie, and

34:41 Speaker 4: they were both petrified. The next day they're at the

34:45 Speaker 4: Singing River Hospital being checked out, and from there they

34:48 Speaker 4: go to Keesler Air Force Base where they are checked

34:52 Speaker 4: for radiation, which was zero. But then the powers that

34:56 Speaker 4: be were I said, well, why you're here, guys, why

34:58 Speaker 4: don't you tell us what happened? And they didn't have

35:01 Speaker 4: a tape recorder, but what they had was a stenographer.

35:04 Speaker 4: So we have a complete transcript of the interview there

35:07 Speaker 4: as well. And so all that just at that point

35:12 Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy three makes this case unique. But it

35:19 Speaker 4: was what we uncovered, you know, many many years later,

35:23 Speaker 4: that has solidified that uniqueness and has expanded the case.

35:28 Speaker 4: It's not just Charlie and Calvin anymore. It's other individuals

35:33 Speaker 4: in and around the area. And we've uncovered documentation, photographs, recording,

35:42 Speaker 4: other audio recordings by the powers that be. Dr Heinek

35:46 Speaker 4: and doctor James Harder were on site within two days

35:49 Speaker 4: interviewing Charlie and Calvin and putting them both trying to

35:52 Speaker 4: put them both on the hypnosis. We actually have Calvin

35:55 Speaker 4: hypnosis eleven minutes long. It's very poor quality, but we

35:59 Speaker 4: have it and with faxed the David Mahler that the

36:04 Speaker 4: National UFO Records Century in Albuquerque. He was he give

36:11 Speaker 4: me covered the APROL files a couple of years back,

36:14 Speaker 4: and of course Dr Harder was part of April and

36:17 Speaker 4: in there there are recordings from that time, but I

36:20 Speaker 4: don't think anybody has ever heard them, and that their

36:23 Speaker 4: recording is with Heinek, with Harder, with the sheriff, Sheriff

36:28 Speaker 4: Fred Diamond and and we have all of those much

36:33 Speaker 4: much more sins.

36:35 Speaker 1: I was just at contact in the desert and I

36:40 Speaker 1: had the amazing opportunity and I'm going to have a

36:43 Speaker 1: mire and studio pretty soon too. Paul Heinik, you know,

36:47 Speaker 1: and I got the chance to talk to him. I'm

36:50 Speaker 1: not going to give it away, give too much out

36:53 Speaker 1: because there's something that I'm working on with it. But

36:57 Speaker 1: in when I got to talk to Paul about it,

37:00 Speaker 1: I asked him why or how, you know, how did

37:07 Speaker 1: Project Blue Book pick choose and select the cases that

37:14 Speaker 1: they would investigate. And I mean he went into the

37:17 Speaker 1: to the whole story. But like you said, within a

37:19 Speaker 1: day or two, his father ends up on the scene

37:24 Speaker 1: and his father, this is probably one of the cases

37:30 Speaker 1: that he says, his starts to turn his father's belief

37:35 Speaker 1: from skeptic to holy shit, there's something really going on here,

37:40 Speaker 1: because you know, in the media like, uh, South park

37:45 Speaker 1: really did a disservice to the UFO subject when they

37:49 Speaker 1: aired their first episode and had the anal probe stuff

37:52 Speaker 1: in there. You know that was got taken from Whitley

37:56 Speaker 1: Streeber and then you know Calvin and Calvin and Charles

38:01 Speaker 1: get taken and that is that becomes whether people, whether

38:06 Speaker 1: it's true or not, the stereotypical abduction case becomes, uh,

38:13 Speaker 1: farmers or ranchers in the middle of nowhere fishing. They

38:17 Speaker 1: get taken by a flying saucer, probed anally and then

38:20 Speaker 1: brought back and you know their life is never the

38:23 Speaker 1: same and you know, so this stereotypical abduction scenario is

38:29 Speaker 1: kind of merged from Whitley Strieber and the Calvin Parker

38:33 Speaker 1: Charles Hickson case and pop pop culture or you know,

38:38 Speaker 1: the deep state, if that's who's really running things. They

38:42 Speaker 1: make it out to be like nothing's I mean, this

38:44 Speaker 1: is all just like you know, crazy people and mentally ill.

38:50 Speaker 1: But al Jaalen Heydeck did didn't didn't think so.

38:55 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Calvin stayed friends with with doctor Heineg

39:00 Speaker 4: and he later became friends with Paul because Calvin would

39:04 Speaker 4: ring doctor Heinek at home and it was usually Paul

39:09 Speaker 4: as a young boy that would answer the phone. And

39:12 Speaker 4: they used to have a blackboard next to the phone,

39:15 Speaker 4: and he would write messages on the blackboard. And you know,

39:20 Speaker 4: so Calvin and Paul had it became friends in their

39:24 Speaker 4: own right, many many years later, and Paul has gone

39:27 Speaker 4: on the record saying that his father thought this was

39:30 Speaker 4: a very solid case. And it would have been it

39:33 Speaker 4: would have been even further impressed had he known about

39:36 Speaker 4: what we've uncovered in this last couple of years.

39:38 Speaker 1: Oh no, God, I mean, oh my, if only we

39:41 Speaker 1: could bring him back to show him what's been what's

39:44 Speaker 1: been uncovered recently. And I mean, you've been coming up

39:49 Speaker 1: with so so people know that the Charles Hickson in

39:54 Speaker 1: Calvin Parker story. But is it Maria Blair, Yeah, I.

39:59 Speaker 4: Mean what happened was I got the rights to reprint,

40:05 Speaker 4: republished Charlie Hickson's book Ufo Contact of Pasca Goula. It

40:10 Speaker 4: came out in nineteen eighty three. Yeah, and you could

40:14 Speaker 4: you could buy a copy online, but it cost you

40:16 Speaker 4: a fortune because it didn't sell that many. And I

40:19 Speaker 4: got the rights to it, and I you Charlie had

40:23 Speaker 4: passed away in twenty eleven, and so I thought, I

40:29 Speaker 4: don't know about Calvin. I couldn't find any obituary for him,

40:32 Speaker 4: so I assumed he was alive. I managed to find

40:36 Speaker 4: him and I spoke to him on the phone. He

40:38 Speaker 4: was very nice, but clearly wasn't going to tell me

40:42 Speaker 4: abowful lot. And unbeknownst to me, behind the scenes, just

40:47 Speaker 4: a few weeks before I phoned him, Calvin had been

40:50 Speaker 4: to a funeral a friend of his had died, and

40:54 Speaker 4: as the coming out of the funeral home, he signed

40:57 Speaker 4: the book of condolence and those coming behind him recognized

41:01 Speaker 4: his name and they're doing the sort of pointing and

41:04 Speaker 4: wink wink, you know. And Calvin thought that was, you know,

41:08 Speaker 4: very disrespectful. But his wife, Wenat, who who was engaged

41:12 Speaker 4: to him at the time when this happened, she said,

41:15 Speaker 4: why you write a damn book and you tell everybody

41:18 Speaker 4: your story. He still hasn't told his story in full.

41:21 Speaker 4: So he mentioned this to me and I said, well,

41:24 Speaker 4: I'll publish your book and he said, well, you know,

41:29 Speaker 4: he says, every time I give an interview, the journalist

41:32 Speaker 4: changes it. Well, I'll I'll adopt, I'll adapt my contract

41:38 Speaker 4: and whereby I cannot publish anything until you say it's okay,

41:44 Speaker 4: you give me the green light. And that's what we did.

41:47 Speaker 1: We wanted so he wanted spelling, his spelling errors in there,

41:53 Speaker 1: medical errors and there. He wanted it exactly the way

41:57 Speaker 1: he wrote it. That's a journal.

42:00 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it came out and it was pretty successful.

42:06 Speaker 4: What happened was a local journalist by the name of

42:09 Speaker 4: Karen Nelson came up to interview Calvin, and she, as

42:18 Speaker 4: well as just writing an article about him, she did

42:20 Speaker 4: like a little mini documentary, you know, about eight minutes long. Mate.

42:25 Speaker 4: So when you viewed her article online, this little video

42:29 Speaker 4: was embedded in it. Somebody took that tyler and put

42:31 Speaker 4: it on YouTube. So I'm reading the comments underneath it,

42:38 Speaker 4: and there's one comment and it says, my mom and

42:42 Speaker 4: dad were on the opposite side of the river that night,

42:45 Speaker 4: they too saw the UFO. So I thought, oh, hang

42:50 Speaker 4: on minute. I found this young lady elsewhere on social media,

42:55 Speaker 4: and I explained who I was and what we were doing,

42:59 Speaker 4: and she said, I said, could we speak to your

43:01 Speaker 4: mom and dad? She said, I asked them, and she

43:04 Speaker 4: came back and said yes. And that was Maria and

43:08 Speaker 4: Jerry Blair. I spoke to them first, and Maria told

43:14 Speaker 4: me that Jerry at the time worked off shore. They

43:18 Speaker 4: used to the company who worked for us to service

43:20 Speaker 4: the oil rigs, and it was on side. She was

43:23 Speaker 4: with him on the opposite side of the river that night.

43:26 Speaker 4: There was a little boat there to take him out

43:28 Speaker 4: to work, but the boss hadn't turned up. It was late,

43:31 Speaker 4: so Jerry was trying to get us sleep in the

43:33 Speaker 4: back of the car, and it's not in the best

43:35 Speaker 4: of moods. Maria said, we saw this blue thing. Bearing

43:39 Speaker 4: in mind Charlie and Calvin said that the UFO emitted

43:42 Speaker 4: this intense blue light. She saw this blue thing come

43:47 Speaker 4: down the river, not in the river, you know, And

43:52 Speaker 4: she said it went opposite us, over the other bank

43:54 Speaker 4: of the river and seemed to be either looking for

43:57 Speaker 4: somebody or it was lost. Now she knew the areas,

44:00 Speaker 4: you know. There was no airfield there, there's no helicopters,

44:03 Speaker 4: you know. And then she said, we decided me and

44:06 Speaker 4: her husband to walk down this pier and put his

44:09 Speaker 4: clothes on the boat. And she says, as we're walking

44:13 Speaker 4: down the pier, there's this huge splash in the water

44:15 Speaker 4: next to me, out of the water. Then these are

44:20 Speaker 4: her words, comes this gray man, and it came right

44:25 Speaker 4: up to her face, literally right there. And then she

44:29 Speaker 4: went back down into the water and was gone. And

44:33 Speaker 4: Maria was quite emotional about this.

44:37 Speaker 1: And I asked them, as anyone should be.

44:40 Speaker 4: Yeah, and she said, I can see I've got impressions.

44:45 Speaker 4: I can see something out of my peripheral vision. I

44:48 Speaker 4: can't quite make it out what it is. And she said,

44:51 Speaker 4: I often wondered if something similar hadn't happened to us,

44:56 Speaker 4: that happened to Charlie and Kelvin. So her husband went

44:59 Speaker 4: to She said it was about nine o'clock when this happened,

45:03 Speaker 4: but she wasn't sure. They didn't have a watch. Once

45:06 Speaker 4: she got back to the car, she led it. She

45:08 Speaker 4: ran like, hell, it was twelve o'clock. So there's several

45:12 Speaker 4: hours to.

45:13 Speaker 1: Account quite a bit of time.

45:15 Speaker 4: Yes, So Jerry came back home and said, don't tell anybody,

45:18 Speaker 4: we'll think we're nuts. So they told their two daughters,

45:22 Speaker 4: who are now grown up, that they've seen these blue lights,

45:26 Speaker 4: but they didn't mention anything else. So Calvin's book comes out.

45:30 Speaker 4: It does well. One of the local charities in the

45:33 Speaker 4: area raised some money to have a historic marker near

45:37 Speaker 4: the site, and that was officially opened by the mayor,

45:41 Speaker 4: and Maria and Jerry Blair came along to the opening.

45:45 Speaker 4: She was publicized locally and they were interviewed by the

45:48 Speaker 4: local TV and again they just talked about these blue

45:52 Speaker 4: lights they'd seen. They didn't mention the Gray Man on TV.

45:56 Speaker 4: And then I'd passed Maria and Jerry's details onto my

46:00 Speaker 4: colleague that Dr Irena Scott, I'd pubably served Irene's books previously,

46:07 Speaker 4: and it was just easier for somebody in the States

46:10 Speaker 4: to interview people there. And it was from this strange

46:13 Speaker 4: shounding yorkshman from the other side of the Atlantic. So

46:18 Speaker 4: Dr Scott took home from there. What happened was Jerry

46:22 Speaker 4: took ill, seriously ill, and he was in hospital and

46:29 Speaker 4: he was going to have an operation and wasn't sure

46:31 Speaker 4: if he was going to make it. There's Irena, so

46:35 Speaker 4: he said to Maria, phone, mister Mattle, and he literally

46:40 Speaker 4: phoned me from his hospital bed. And Maria has a

46:44 Speaker 4: recording of a video of it as well, saying, I lied,

46:48 Speaker 4: I saw everything my wife saw, you know. And he

46:52 Speaker 4: still got the stickers on his chest, his bare chest

46:55 Speaker 4: not sitting on his hospital bed. Thankfully, he made it

46:58 Speaker 4: through the operation, but it was only a stop gap,

47:02 Speaker 4: but it was gonna it was going to pass.

47:04 Speaker 1: Away, yes, and and so something it was he in

47:10 Speaker 1: his mind it could have gone really bad that day,

47:13 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So he was getting the

47:15 Speaker 1: deathbed confession read essentially what happened.

47:20 Speaker 4: He then said to his wife, Maria, I got something

47:23 Speaker 4: to tell you, and he said, we too were abducted.

47:32 Speaker 4: And he told her that he told her the whole

47:35 Speaker 4: story and what it is. Maria wasn't looking out of

47:41 Speaker 4: a peripheral vision. She actually had her eyes her eyes

47:44 Speaker 4: screwed up tightly closed, and she could look out of

47:48 Speaker 4: the corner of her eye, and she looked up to

47:50 Speaker 4: the other end of the pier, and two of these

47:52 Speaker 4: creatures were there with her husband, and they were the

47:56 Speaker 4: same creatures as Charlie and Calvin reported. And Jerry said,

48:02 Speaker 4: I've got my eye on that one, as if one

48:05 Speaker 4: of them was in charge or something of that nature.

48:08 Speaker 4: And then they went back across the river. And you know,

48:15 Speaker 4: Dr Scott is recording all this. Maria's telling Irene her

48:19 Speaker 4: one way or another, and then sadly, you know, Jerry

48:24 Speaker 4: did pass away, so we had all that information. We

48:29 Speaker 4: made a documentary. But before that, Maria came back to

48:35 Speaker 4: hers and said she'd like to undergo hypnosis. We declined

48:39 Speaker 4: to begin with because we thought she's still grieving over

48:41 Speaker 4: her husband, right.

48:43 Speaker 1: She came that will taint I mean you and you

48:48 Speaker 1: just don't want to press that line.

48:50 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, So she came back again some sometime later

48:53 Speaker 4: and we said, okay, I'll see what I can do.

48:56 Speaker 4: So all I did, Tyler, was look at online at

48:58 Speaker 4: some hypnotherapists in the area, and I just sent them

49:02 Speaker 4: an email asking if they did regressive hypnoses. I didn't

49:05 Speaker 4: tell them what I needed. And our lady stepped forward,

49:09 Speaker 4: called Crystal, Crystal Slaughter, and she says, yeah, she says,

49:13 Speaker 4: I'll even go to the client's home if it's If

49:15 Speaker 4: it's better for them, they can come here back and

49:17 Speaker 4: go there. So we arranged for Crystal to put Maria

49:21 Speaker 4: under aggressive hypnoses and this was done at Calvin's house.

49:25 Speaker 4: She'd become friends now with Calvin and his wife wen

49:28 Speaker 4: At She knew Calvin had that hypnosis before, so he

49:32 Speaker 4: was there, you know, And we didn't tell the hypnotherapist anything.

49:38 Speaker 4: We just said time, location, that was it.

49:41 Speaker 1: Nothing about what they would be hearing.

49:43 Speaker 4: No, not what we didn't know we're going to hear anything.

49:46 Speaker 4: So we just said the date, time and location. And

49:50 Speaker 4: I had a local cameraman professional to film it, so

49:55 Speaker 4: we had it on the record as well. And Maria

49:59 Speaker 4: is very emotional on the hypnosis. There's big gaps between

50:03 Speaker 4: question and answer. And I know that are those out

50:07 Speaker 4: there that said hypnosis is not the way to do things.

50:09 Speaker 4: They may be right, they may be wrong, but this

50:11 Speaker 4: is what Maria wanted. This wasn't from us, and she,

50:16 Speaker 4: to cut a long story short, she said these creatures

50:19 Speaker 4: were interested in her eggs. They wanted to make beings

50:23 Speaker 4: that look like us, but could walk amongst us unrecognized.

50:27 Speaker 4: I mean, none of us were expecting any of that.

50:29 Speaker 4: You should have seen the Hypnothrapis's face when Maria started

50:33 Speaker 4: talking about this. Maria's opinion then went on to be

50:38 Speaker 4: that they had been abductions. Firmly believed that abdocted by aliens,

50:44 Speaker 4: and she believed that they'd had experiences before, but you know,

50:49 Speaker 4: she couldn't remember any of it. And and then she

50:53 Speaker 4: believed that her and Jerry were the actual targets that night,

50:58 Speaker 4: not Charlie and Calvin, simply because the fact that they

51:02 Speaker 4: were supposed to be at that location at that time,

51:05 Speaker 4: and Charlie and Calvin only decided to go there that

51:08 Speaker 4: day coming home from work, So they were like collateral

51:12 Speaker 4: damage if you like, you know. That was her opinion.

51:16 Speaker 4: We have no evidence of any of that. It's just

51:17 Speaker 4: her opinion. Jumping forward in time, we did a documentary

51:22 Speaker 4: and we missed out on interviewing Maria. So we have

51:28 Speaker 4: a lady in the artic called Chelsea Chelsea Norton Prince.

51:32 Speaker 4: It's part of the Ocean Springs Historical Society. She has

51:36 Speaker 4: an interest in the case. She met Calvin bought his book.

51:39 Speaker 4: So I asked Chelsea, I said, you have an iPhone?

51:42 Speaker 4: He says, yeah, so could you film an interview with

51:45 Speaker 4: Maria on your iPhone? It's not perfect and all that,

51:48 Speaker 4: but it's better than nothing, Tyler. So right, we did that.

51:53 Speaker 4: I sent some questions for Chelsea to ask Maria, and

51:59 Speaker 4: Maria talked to Way. One of the questions I wanted

52:03 Speaker 4: to clarify was when did you first meet Calvin Parker

52:11 Speaker 4: Ben In mind, she'd gone to the opening of the

52:14 Speaker 4: historical marker, and I believe that's when they in person met.

52:20 Speaker 4: She came back and she said, I first saw Calvin

52:24 Speaker 4: Parker when he was abducted. And she claimed she saw

52:29 Speaker 4: what was happening on the other side of the river,

52:32 Speaker 4: and she said, I thought it was men playing around

52:34 Speaker 4: you and messing around doing stupid things. Then things started

52:38 Speaker 4: to happen to them, So she take her eye off

52:40 Speaker 4: what was going on on the other side.

52:42 Speaker 1: Of right, right right, She had her own. Yeah. So

52:47 Speaker 1: are you saying that there is a possibility that Maria

52:53 Speaker 1: saw Calvin and and Charles being abducted across the river.

52:58 Speaker 4: That's what she claims. Yes, Bear in mind her husband Jerry,

53:04 Speaker 4: who wasn't the most talkative of men. You know, I

53:07 Speaker 4: did speak to him. He did say, you know, I lied.

53:12 Speaker 4: I saw the same as my wife. He called them

53:15 Speaker 4: the humanoids. I saw the human EIDs go back out

53:18 Speaker 4: across the water. So Jerry's deathbed confession wasn't an omen

53:23 Speaker 4: eye thing. It took, you know, several months before he

53:26 Speaker 4: passed away, but right to his dying breath, he was

53:29 Speaker 4: still trying to tell his wife Maria what had happened

53:32 Speaker 4: to them, and then Maria has since claimed that she'd

53:36 Speaker 4: had other contacts with them on a psychological level, and

53:41 Speaker 4: a sighting of one of the the UFOs, whatever you

53:45 Speaker 4: want to call it, and.

53:47 Speaker 1: Well, we can't forget that that. Charles also, this is

53:53 Speaker 1: even back in when the past school case was unfolding,

53:59 Speaker 1: if you will, Charles said that he had another encounter

54:02 Speaker 1: and so didn't Calvin ray.

54:04 Speaker 4: Yeah, what what it was with Charlie? He claimed that

54:07 Speaker 4: he would hear voices, yes, from the from these beings,

54:13 Speaker 4: although these beings at the time, these ugly things didn't

54:16 Speaker 4: actually make a noise, but it was from the from them,

54:20 Speaker 4: and Charlie became almost like a contact tee. These beings

54:25 Speaker 4: were going to help mankind, were going to help humanity,

54:29 Speaker 4: and he was going to be part of it. He

54:30 Speaker 4: didn't know what the hell it was, just that he

54:32 Speaker 4: was going to be part of it. He had another

54:34 Speaker 4: sighting which was witnessed by all the family and they

54:39 Speaker 4: were all in the same car. It was in daylight.

54:42 Speaker 4: That's all in his book, of course. So Maria is

54:46 Speaker 4: a similar nature. Yes, Calvin, again, this is what we

54:50 Speaker 4: were talking about at the beginning of all this title

54:54 Speaker 4: was asking the right people the right questions and asking

54:58 Speaker 4: them in the right manner as well. Right via Peter Robbins,

55:05 Speaker 4: who was assistant to Bod Hopkins for many years.

55:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just interviewed him at Contact.

55:11 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, we found out that both Hopkins had actually

55:14 Speaker 4: put both Charlie and Calvin under hypnosis, Charlie twice in

55:20 Speaker 4: the nineteen eighties, a few years apart Calvin in nineteen

55:24 Speaker 4: ninety three. Calvin had another encounter in nineteen ninety three

55:29 Speaker 4: on his own again out in a little boat fishing,

55:33 Speaker 4: and he told a friend of his and his friend said,

55:37 Speaker 4: there's a guy called Hopkins doing a UFO conference in Florida.

55:43 Speaker 4: They drove their unannounced to the hotel that was having

55:47 Speaker 4: this convention. His friend went in. Calvin wouldn't go in

55:51 Speaker 4: bound Bud, but says, here's my room, key, I'll meet

55:55 Speaker 4: him there, And he met Calvin in his hotel room.

56:00 Speaker 4: I knew Bud pretty well and put him on the hypnosis.

56:06 Speaker 4: Not only that, he recorded it. So we have the

56:09 Speaker 4: audio recording of that hypnosis session, and we also have

56:14 Speaker 4: the two hypnosis sessions with Charlie Hickson and Bud Hopkins.

56:18 Speaker 4: I said there a few years apart the two recordings

56:21 Speaker 4: with Charlie. One talks about some encounters he had as

56:25 Speaker 4: a young fella, a young boy, and then what happened

56:29 Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy three similar you know, Calvin talked about

56:34 Speaker 4: what happened, and then we had the opportunity in I

56:38 Speaker 4: think it was twenty twenty two. Kathleen Marden, who is

56:44 Speaker 4: a hypnotherapist, was in town, so we put Calvin on

56:48 Speaker 4: the hypnosis then and we recorded it audio and Calvin

56:53 Speaker 4: goes through what happened in ninety three seventy three, and

56:57 Speaker 4: loan behold, he had two out as a young boy

57:00 Speaker 4: as well, and he talks about them. So we've got

57:05 Speaker 4: all you know this, more and more evidence has been accumulated,

57:10 Speaker 4: but simply because we asked the right questions now. At

57:14 Speaker 4: the time of their encounter in nineteen seventy three, Calvin

57:17 Speaker 4: says Charlie was grabbed by two of these creatures and

57:21 Speaker 4: they scratched his arm. Calvin claims while he was on

57:25 Speaker 4: board that removed his lower clothing and his shoes and socks,

57:29 Speaker 4: and they stuck something thing in his foot and it hurt.

57:35 Speaker 4: So when I started to write the book with Calvin,

57:40 Speaker 4: I asked him I said, do you have any photos

57:43 Speaker 4: Calvin or documents anything. He says, no, it's lost all

57:47 Speaker 4: of those in Hurricane Katrina. The house is on the

57:50 Speaker 4: ten feet of water. So my job, well, he's writing,

57:54 Speaker 4: I'm politely asking people, do you have anything on Pasca

57:58 Speaker 4: go the first place I went towards the Center for

58:01 Speaker 4: UFO Studies founded in nineteen seventy three by Dr Iyek. Yes,

58:07 Speaker 4: they sent me a file. In the middle of this

58:10 Speaker 4: file is a one page typewritten document. Titlet's written on

58:15 Speaker 4: an old typewriter, stated October thirteenth, nineteen seventy three, so

58:19 Speaker 4: it's two days after the event. It's one page, and

58:23 Speaker 4: it basically describes Charlie and Calvin sipping down to their underwear,

58:28 Speaker 4: I mean giving the one sober, and they found puncture

58:33 Speaker 4: ones in Charlie Hixon's arm and Calvin Parker's foot burn

58:40 Speaker 4: in mind these guys had said. Charlie said they scratched

58:43 Speaker 4: his arm and Challenger had I stuck something in his foot?

58:46 Speaker 4: He mentioned photographs, but there one oh photographs. So I

58:49 Speaker 4: thought this document is great. I asked Calvin, who the

58:53 Speaker 4: hell gave you the once sober? He said it was

58:55 Speaker 4: it was Dr Harder. She wasn't a medical doctor, but

58:59 Speaker 4: he had the aside just to look them over. About

59:02 Speaker 4: a year eighteen months later, I had an email out

59:06 Speaker 4: of the blue from the same gentleman the Center for

59:09 Speaker 4: UFO Studies, says Philip, I've been rummaging through some files today.

59:15 Speaker 4: I assume you've already got these. I wasn't looking for them,

59:18 Speaker 4: but I found them, and here you go, Loan, Behold,

59:21 Speaker 4: it's the photographs to go with this document. So you

59:24 Speaker 4: have Charles Yes, so we have Charlie Hickson's forearm with

59:29 Speaker 4: the marks in it, Calvin's foot. These are photographs. They're

59:33 Speaker 4: not digital, but they were digitized obviously, so they were scowned.

59:37 Speaker 4: Back in front and on the back is the person's names,

59:40 Speaker 4: so we know which photo. So we have their testing

59:43 Speaker 4: money saying we were scratched. Calvin said that stuck something

59:47 Speaker 4: in my foot. We have this written document that's probably

59:50 Speaker 4: my doctor, James Harder. And then we have two photographs

59:54 Speaker 4: to go with it. So they're not they're not laser

59:58 Speaker 4: guided incisions or anything like that title let's but they

1:00:01 Speaker 4: are minor injuries that they do support the testimony of

1:00:06 Speaker 4: these two guys.

1:00:08 Speaker 1: And and and then and let's step back a sec

1:00:12 Speaker 1: is there any like you don't think that there's any

1:00:16 Speaker 1: possibility that these guys set out. A lot of people

1:00:20 Speaker 1: say that they were uh, that they were drinking, and

1:00:26 Speaker 1: you know, maybe they can concocted this idea after the

1:00:30 Speaker 1: fact to gain some notoriety. But I mean, that just

1:00:34 Speaker 1: doesn't add up in my book, because.

1:00:36 Speaker 4: The first discussion they had when this had happened. Have

1:00:39 Speaker 4: to remember Calvin was dumed to get married the following month.

1:00:43 Speaker 4: He didn't live in the area. He lived in Laurel, Mississippi,

1:00:46 Speaker 4: which is nearly two hundred miles away. I believe he'd

1:00:49 Speaker 4: gone there to work.

1:00:50 Speaker 1: That he had just gotten that job too.

1:00:53 Speaker 4: That was his first day. He said, I got hired

1:00:55 Speaker 4: and fired and abducted on the same So he didn't

1:01:00 Speaker 4: he didn't know the area at all. And one of

1:01:05 Speaker 4: the things he was worried about was his future father

1:01:08 Speaker 4: in law finding out, and he said, he won't let

1:01:11 Speaker 4: me marry Waynette. So the first discussion they had afterwards

1:01:17 Speaker 4: was we're not going to tell anybody not a word.

1:01:21 Speaker 4: So this they go to Charlie to Calvin's car, which

1:01:24 Speaker 4: is by the way, he's a brand new Rambler hornet

1:01:28 Speaker 4: wherever the hell one of them is. That's what he

1:01:29 Speaker 4: was driving. It was bright yellow and the wind. The

1:01:33 Speaker 4: passenger window facing the UFO was shattered. It fell out,

1:01:41 Speaker 4: and then Calvin gets in the car. He said it

1:01:43 Speaker 4: took him twenty attempts to start it and this was

1:01:45 Speaker 4: a brand new car. So they set off with the

1:01:48 Speaker 4: intention on going home. But then Charlie had a change

1:01:53 Speaker 4: of heart. Remember Charlie was in the Army and fourteen career.

1:01:58 Speaker 4: He says, We've got to tell somebody, what if this

1:02:02 Speaker 4: thing comes back? Does this to somebody else? Right? What

1:02:07 Speaker 4: if this is the start of an invasion? So they

1:02:10 Speaker 4: pulling at a local store that's got a pay phone.

1:02:12 Speaker 4: There's no mobile phones in nineteen seventy three. This is

1:02:16 Speaker 4: a that's what they were driving, so.

1:02:19 Speaker 1: There was a brand new brand.

1:02:24 Speaker 4: So they first phone Keysler and Air Force Base. Keysler said,

1:02:29 Speaker 4: Project bull Book is closed. We don't have anything to

1:02:32 Speaker 4: do with UFOs. Phone phone your local authorities. So they

1:02:37 Speaker 4: phoned the police. Just so happens that the guy who

1:02:41 Speaker 4: took the phone call from them was Sheriff Diamond's son,

1:02:47 Speaker 4: Mick Diamond. He was the police dispatcher on duty that night.

1:02:52 Speaker 4: And he passed the call then through to the Jackson

1:02:55 Speaker 4: County Sheriff's office. Now Mickey is still alive and we

1:03:00 Speaker 4: communicated with him, and he said, Philip, I must have

1:03:04 Speaker 4: had over fifty telephone reports of UFOs that night. And

1:03:09 Speaker 4: it says not only that, when I logged off my

1:03:13 Speaker 4: shift and went back to the station, there were people

1:03:15 Speaker 4: there in person reporting it in person.

1:03:20 Speaker 1: And were were they all saying some?

1:03:26 Speaker 4: I mean, I'll give you an example, Tyler, give you

1:03:30 Speaker 4: an example. He said. One of the fellows reporting something

1:03:35 Speaker 4: in person was a minister, so as a member of

1:03:40 Speaker 4: what we call the clergy. Right, So when Calvin's book

1:03:44 Speaker 4: comes out, I was contacted by a guy in Greece.

1:03:51 Speaker 4: We've since become good friends. It's called Stephanos and his

1:03:55 Speaker 4: surname is Panageo Takis. Now Stephanos was a UFO researcher

1:04:04 Speaker 4: and writer, and not in nineteen seventy three, but in

1:04:08 Speaker 4: nineteen eighty one. He was in the Greek Merchant Navy.

1:04:13 Speaker 4: He was a radio operator and they docked in Pasca Gula.

1:04:19 Speaker 4: Now that was his favorite case. So they had a

1:04:21 Speaker 4: week's lieover. So he set off to get an interview

1:04:25 Speaker 4: with Charlie Hickson, which he did. He went to the

1:04:28 Speaker 4: police station and explained what he was trying to do

1:04:31 Speaker 4: with writing for a magazine back home, and they said, oh,

1:04:35 Speaker 4: why don't you speak to pastor a clergyman, Pastor Emanuel Siegallas,

1:04:43 Speaker 4: and here's his address. So Stephanos literally went and knocked

1:04:47 Speaker 4: on his door. Just by coincidence, the pastor was in

1:04:53 Speaker 4: and his family would have Greek collagin. Then you've got

1:04:56 Speaker 4: a Greek guy standing on my doorstep. So Stephanos went in,

1:05:01 Speaker 4: interviewed him, wrote this up, broke his story up, and

1:05:06 Speaker 4: of course since then he's passed away, but he still

1:05:09 Speaker 4: had a copy of his his interview. What the pastor

1:05:14 Speaker 4: said was on that night of October the eleventh, nineteen

1:05:17 Speaker 4: seventy three, him and another chat by the name of

1:05:22 Speaker 4: Don broad Us, don't work for the Pascagoula Police Department.

1:05:29 Speaker 1: And credible witnesses.

1:05:31 Speaker 4: Then we have a young church volunteer, a young lady

1:05:34 Speaker 4: in the back of the car. They're going to a

1:05:37 Speaker 4: meeting that is run by the church for people who

1:05:40 Speaker 4: had alcohol problems.

1:05:42 Speaker 1: Oh, the old AA meeting.

1:05:44 Speaker 4: Yeah. Now they're driving away and it's this young lady

1:05:47 Speaker 4: who was looking out of the side window and she

1:05:50 Speaker 4: points out this thing that's coming and it went right

1:05:54 Speaker 4: all over the in front of him, right across the

1:05:56 Speaker 4: road in front of them. They even drew a picture

1:05:58 Speaker 4: for stephan Us. It looked pretty similar to what Charlie

1:06:03 Speaker 4: and Calvin's said, and it was heading in that general direction. Now,

1:06:10 Speaker 4: Pascor Cigalas has seems passed away, as the other gentleman

1:06:13 Speaker 4: in the car Don brought us passed away. What about

1:06:17 Speaker 4: this young lady in the back seat. Now, what I'm

1:06:19 Speaker 4: saying is here we have a clergyman on the record,

1:06:23 Speaker 4: and we have Mick Diamond going back to the police

1:06:28 Speaker 4: station saying there's a there's a minister in there reporting it.

1:06:31 Speaker 4: Are this the same guy? I can't imagine that minister's

1:06:35 Speaker 4: report in UFOs that night. Anyway, we managed to find

1:06:40 Speaker 4: the name of this lady in the back seat. She

1:06:42 Speaker 4: she wasn't a native of the area. She gone to

1:06:46 Speaker 4: work there for a couple of years. I think she

1:06:48 Speaker 4: taught at the local school and helped out at the church.

1:06:52 Speaker 4: But I found a couple of social media accounts for her.

1:06:58 Speaker 4: We've got a name, but they hadn't been used in

1:07:01 Speaker 4: a long time, and I left it. At one point, Tyler,

1:07:08 Speaker 4: we couldn't seem to contact and for some reason a

1:07:11 Speaker 4: while later, I went back to one of these accounts

1:07:15 Speaker 4: and there was the name of a church on it.

1:07:17 Speaker 4: So I just simply googled the church and it was

1:07:21 Speaker 4: a church in Maryland, whatever the hell that is.

1:07:26 Speaker 1: That's yeah, a little celt about south of Massachusetts.

1:07:32 Speaker 4: I know that is right up. So the church also

1:07:35 Speaker 4: had a website. So I'm looking on the website and

1:07:39 Speaker 4: there was a couple of sermons that you could download,

1:07:42 Speaker 4: and it told you who the sermons were. Now, this

1:07:45 Speaker 4: lady was called Joe and Hallmark, and here we had

1:07:50 Speaker 4: two sermons by two people called Hallmark, And I'm thinking,

1:07:56 Speaker 4: is this her sons? Is it her husband? So I

1:08:01 Speaker 4: sent the church a very non descript email saying, we're

1:08:09 Speaker 4: looking to speak to Joann Hallmark. She worked with pastor

1:08:12 Speaker 4: Cigalis back in nineteen seventury. Pastagal, if she's around your

1:08:17 Speaker 4: pasta email on please, and that was it. Three or

1:08:20 Speaker 4: four weeks later, she replied, So now I had to

1:08:24 Speaker 4: tell her what we were all about. So I did,

1:08:28 Speaker 4: and she came back to us again a few weeks later,

1:08:31 Speaker 4: sent a fresh photograph of what she looks like now.

1:08:34 Speaker 4: I'd sent the old black and white one of her,

1:08:36 Speaker 4: which she found very amusing. She confirmed, She confirmed all

1:08:41 Speaker 4: what she'd seen. Dr Irena Scott spoke to her on

1:08:44 Speaker 4: the phone and interviewed her on the phone as well.

1:08:47 Speaker 4: So that's how things have happened. You know, Pastor Goolu

1:08:52 Speaker 4: eyes and was the pastor and the minister the same

1:08:59 Speaker 4: per us and that night at the police station. I

1:09:02 Speaker 4: don't know, but the police station certainly had his details

1:09:05 Speaker 4: because they told Stephanos. So.

1:09:08 Speaker 1: Yeah. So it it does add up, and and it

1:09:12 Speaker 1: and it and it falls in line again. You know,

1:09:15 Speaker 1: you're looking for these these these these these threads, and

1:09:21 Speaker 1: they they they keep kind of being pinned back to

1:09:25 Speaker 1: that something extraordinary happened on the Pascagoula River.

1:09:31 Speaker 4: Yeah, and a number of people have said all these

1:09:32 Speaker 4: two guys were drinking moonshine and whatever. Listen, Tyler, I

1:09:38 Speaker 4: come from an Irish family. My family at times certainly

1:09:42 Speaker 4: when those celebrations could drink, you know, and I've never

1:09:47 Speaker 4: known any of them hallucinate anything ever, you know.

1:09:51 Speaker 1: You black out.

1:09:53 Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's an Remember.

1:09:56 Speaker 1: That didn't happen.

1:09:57 Speaker 4: Calvin didn't drink anyway. I think I think, you know,

1:10:00 Speaker 4: Charlie liked to be a tuba, so what you know,

1:10:04 Speaker 4: it's no big deal. But then we have all these

1:10:08 Speaker 4: other people around it, so it's not just about Charlie

1:10:12 Speaker 4: and Calvin.

1:10:14 Speaker 1: Right, you could essentially, and obviously you know this, it

1:10:20 Speaker 1: wouldn't be this way, but you could at this point

1:10:23 Speaker 1: in time, with all the evidence given, we could take

1:10:27 Speaker 1: Calvin and Charles out of the equation and still have

1:10:31 Speaker 1: a pretty good case.

1:10:33 Speaker 4: Absolutely, And that's why we called the book Beyond Reasonable Doubt.

1:10:37 Speaker 4: With Irene and I had written the book and we

1:10:40 Speaker 4: had another title for it. I can't remember what it was.

1:10:42 Speaker 4: And I was sat watching a courtroom drama one night

1:10:45 Speaker 4: on the TV and I said, we have to prove

1:10:48 Speaker 4: beyond reasonable doubt. I emailed Irena and so I think

1:10:51 Speaker 4: I've got a title for the book. That's what we

1:10:54 Speaker 4: as you've just said, Tyler, we believed, right, if we

1:10:59 Speaker 4: took all the evidence with a crude and all those people,

1:11:02 Speaker 4: put them in a court room, we could prove not

1:11:05 Speaker 4: that they would abducted by ailings, but we could prove

1:11:07 Speaker 4: it something out of the ordinary took place that night,

1:11:11 Speaker 4: you know, Yes, and it wasn't just located with Charlie

1:11:15 Speaker 4: and Calvin.

1:11:17 Speaker 1: Correct, And I now someone had asked that earlier, and

1:11:23 Speaker 1: I meant to get to it that Now there was

1:11:26 Speaker 1: a more official sighting or something that happened with the

1:11:32 Speaker 1: It was the Navy. Yeah, they saw a blue glow

1:11:36 Speaker 1: under the water.

1:11:37 Speaker 4: Yeah. What happened was it was just about three weeks later.

1:11:43 Speaker 4: I believe it was either November sixth or November the ninth,

1:11:47 Speaker 4: I can't remember off the top of my head, but

1:11:48 Speaker 4: it was in the same stretch of river where Charlie

1:11:52 Speaker 4: and Calvin were fishing that night, but a bit further out,

1:11:56 Speaker 4: and there were three local fishing boats, three little skiffs

1:12:00 Speaker 4: with eight people in them, were out fishing and it

1:12:04 Speaker 4: was dark, but they saw something under the water. It

1:12:11 Speaker 4: was circular. It's about thirty feet in diameter, and it

1:12:15 Speaker 4: was segmented like they liking it to like the old

1:12:19 Speaker 4: parachutes in the Second World War where they had segments

1:12:21 Speaker 4: in them. They got so close, they got so close

1:12:25 Speaker 4: to this thing that could they literally put an oar

1:12:28 Speaker 4: in the water and hit it and it Yeah. Then

1:12:32 Speaker 4: the lights went off and it would appear elsewhere and

1:12:35 Speaker 4: they would chase it like a cat and mouse. So

1:12:37 Speaker 4: one of the skiffs went to the coast Guard station

1:12:41 Speaker 4: and reported it in person a coast guard, so they

1:12:45 Speaker 4: sent a boat out. They too saw it, and they

1:12:49 Speaker 4: too hit it with a pole or an and it

1:12:53 Speaker 4: went clung again. Now we have the full Coastguard reports

1:12:59 Speaker 4: completely on re Active and it gave us all the

1:13:02 Speaker 4: names of the people. In fact, I've got a freedom

1:13:04 Speaker 4: of information at requests still going through because they got

1:13:10 Speaker 4: only civilians and interviewed them. So they have that interview

1:13:17 Speaker 4: on tapes. Now whether it still exists or not, I

1:13:20 Speaker 4: don't know, so I'm still trying to get access to

1:13:23 Speaker 4: that tape. The next day, the Navy came out and

1:13:27 Speaker 4: they got one of the guys that was there the

1:13:31 Speaker 4: night before. He thought the Navy were a bit stupid

1:13:34 Speaker 4: because he said, well it happened there. There's just nothing there.

1:13:36 Speaker 4: There's just water, you know. And it was said that

1:13:40 Speaker 4: the Navy were going to produce a report, but we've

1:13:42 Speaker 4: never seen it, we've never found it, so maybe they didn't.

1:13:48 Speaker 4: But we have the complete Coastguard report and it says

1:13:51 Speaker 4: in that that these things were unidentified. So again because

1:13:56 Speaker 4: I've been putting the feelers out one colleague, So, no,

1:14:01 Speaker 4: have you spoken to so and so he's got a

1:14:05 Speaker 4: photograph of all those witnesses. No, I'll ask him, so

1:14:09 Speaker 4: he said, A pought, Yeah, I've got it. So what

1:14:12 Speaker 4: what they did out of the Coastguard, all the Navy,

1:14:14 Speaker 4: They'll line them up on the on the side of

1:14:16 Speaker 4: the and took a photograph on. But then again, when

1:14:20 Speaker 4: you turn the photograph over, it gives you everybody's.

1:14:23 Speaker 1: Name, right, because that's what that's what it was a

1:14:25 Speaker 1: common practice.

1:14:27 Speaker 4: Yeah, what we did we put that photograph out on

1:14:31 Speaker 4: Facebook and we said, anybody know any of these people,

1:14:35 Speaker 4: we'd like to speak to them. Within a couple of hours, Tyler,

1:14:38 Speaker 4: a young lady had contacted me privately. He says, they're

1:14:42 Speaker 4: all deceased apart from one. And she said yeah, but

1:14:48 Speaker 4: she says that one's my father in law.

1:14:51 Speaker 1: Oh shoot, a.

1:14:54 Speaker 4: Chap called Earl Ryan, I believe his name. I said,

1:14:57 Speaker 4: can we speak to him? Yeah? Again, the same day

1:15:02 Speaker 4: we had his phone number. I passed that on directly

1:15:05 Speaker 4: to doctor Scott and she interviewed all right. He was

1:15:09 Speaker 4: sixteen at the time when it happened. He was on

1:15:11 Speaker 4: that boat with his dad. His father was the one

1:15:14 Speaker 4: that hit it.

1:15:15 Speaker 1: And again again they are saying this. They are saying

1:15:21 Speaker 1: that they stuck an ore into the water and some

1:15:27 Speaker 1: sort of physical reaction. So this thing was physically there.

1:15:31 Speaker 4: Yes, clink dunk, and that's in the same stretch of water.

1:15:37 Speaker 4: Now people will say, well, it's got no connection to

1:15:40 Speaker 4: Pasca Google and it happened three weeks later, So well,

1:15:45 Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, if it was a guy

1:15:50 Speaker 4: shot at the bus stop and then an little guy

1:15:53 Speaker 4: was shot at the other side of the road three

1:15:55 Speaker 4: weeks later, you kind of think there was a link

1:15:57 Speaker 4: somewhere there, you know, in the same place. Something bizarre happening.

1:16:02 Speaker 4: But again, we have all that documented. Talist is not here,

1:16:06 Speaker 4: say you know, we have it all documented, no reactions.

1:16:10 Speaker 4: There's even a handwritten letter in those documents that I

1:16:14 Speaker 4: think was sent to the UFO researcher at the time.

1:16:20 Speaker 4: I can't remember his name, but we have and it's

1:16:22 Speaker 4: by one of the Coastguard crew when he did a

1:16:24 Speaker 4: little drawing of it. Can't make out what the drawing is,

1:16:27 Speaker 4: but Leonard Stringfield. The letter was sent to Leonard Stringfield,

1:16:34 Speaker 4: and so we have all that, you know. So it's

1:16:38 Speaker 4: more testimony this time from the coast Guard and they

1:16:42 Speaker 4: saw it too, and they it and it went clunk.

1:16:46 Speaker 1: It's amazing to me. And and across most of these reports,

1:16:51 Speaker 1: they're all reporting that there's this blue light.

1:16:54 Speaker 4: A lot of them, not all of them, but a

1:16:56 Speaker 4: lot of them. Yes, it seems the closer to the

1:16:59 Speaker 4: river they get to get the blue light. As they

1:17:02 Speaker 4: spread out other witnesses around the area, then they see

1:17:05 Speaker 4: different things again, you know, the mister. One of the

1:17:08 Speaker 4: criticisms at the time, in nineteen seventy three is that

1:17:11 Speaker 4: on the bridge, this was a toll bridge, so there

1:17:14 Speaker 4: was a toll booth. There was a man in it

1:17:16 Speaker 4: twenty four to seven. The guy was in it that night,

1:17:19 Speaker 4: never saw nothing, So it doesn't mean it wasn't somebody.

1:17:25 Speaker 4: He just didn't see it. We have, mister, we have

1:17:28 Speaker 4: a gentleman by the name of mister Rusty Anderson who

1:17:31 Speaker 4: was driving over that bridge that night with his wife

1:17:35 Speaker 4: and he saw it and he said it was down

1:17:38 Speaker 4: below us. Philip, and he said it was so low

1:17:42 Speaker 4: I thought it was going to crash. Says. The next

1:17:45 Speaker 4: day I went down by the river to my aunt's house,

1:17:48 Speaker 4: she lived down there, and he said, before I had

1:17:51 Speaker 4: chance to say anything. She said, you'll never guess what

1:17:54 Speaker 4: I saw last night.

1:17:56 Speaker 1: Now, Oh my god.

1:17:58 Speaker 4: Then Calvin Parker had a book signing in Pascagoula, and

1:18:04 Speaker 4: this old boy with gray hair like mine come up

1:18:07 Speaker 4: to Calvin and say, God, buy a book, mister Parker, Yeah,

1:18:10 Speaker 4: sign it way next there. She took the money and

1:18:13 Speaker 4: he said, oh, by the way, I saw that thing

1:18:16 Speaker 4: that night, and he walked away. Luckily for us, again,

1:18:21 Speaker 4: somebody was taking photographs, so we had a picture of

1:18:24 Speaker 4: him buying a book. I put it on social media.

1:18:27 Speaker 4: Like to speak to this guy laid here, I think

1:18:31 Speaker 4: it was at the library, said, I know that is.

1:18:33 Speaker 4: I'll ask him if he'll talk to you. He said, yeah,

1:18:36 Speaker 4: I think it was mister Lewis Lee. Now, that night

1:18:40 Speaker 4: of October the eleventh, nineteen seventy three, mister Lee was

1:18:44 Speaker 4: on the other side of the river in the shipyard

1:18:48 Speaker 4: as a crane operator, and he said, my cab was

1:18:54 Speaker 4: about ten or twelve feet off the ground. Some as

1:18:56 Speaker 4: I got in it, I could see this dwn tea

1:19:00 Speaker 4: out over the water, not up in the sky, Tyler,

1:19:03 Speaker 4: you know, he said, I could see it. It was

1:19:06 Speaker 4: a white blue. He said, at times it almost looked

1:19:09 Speaker 4: transparent in the middle, and he watched it for some minutes.

1:19:15 Speaker 4: He said, the only reason I took my eyes off

1:19:17 Speaker 4: it is because my colleague down below he's shouting because

1:19:20 Speaker 4: I've got something on the end of my crane.

1:19:23 Speaker 1: You know, right right right, he start working.

1:19:25 Speaker 4: And when I look back at it going So I

1:19:28 Speaker 4: said to miss mister Lee god resting has passed away

1:19:31 Speaker 4: since we interviewed him. And I said, did you report

1:19:35 Speaker 4: it to anybody? He says, Philip, this is nineteen seventy three.

1:19:40 Speaker 4: There ain't no ghostbusters to call. You're going to report

1:19:45 Speaker 4: it to, he said, my family? And then you know

1:19:50 Speaker 4: whether mister Anderson he'd been He was the chap driving

1:19:55 Speaker 4: over the bridge, he wrote on his Facebook or being

1:19:58 Speaker 4: interviewed about the UFO sighting. A yeah, And there's a

1:20:03 Speaker 4: couple of comments underneath, and there's a a lady with

1:20:06 Speaker 4: a completely different name. She said, oh, I saw it

1:20:09 Speaker 4: that night. So I contacted her and I said, will

1:20:14 Speaker 4: you I was an interview said yes, she was called Pamela.

1:20:17 Speaker 4: Pamela Raley Eves. Now Pamela lived about a mile that way,

1:20:23 Speaker 4: and she said, our house was so over up the river,

1:20:26 Speaker 4: and I was putting my children to bed upstairs, and

1:20:29 Speaker 4: I'm going to close the curtains. I see this blue

1:20:33 Speaker 4: thing out over the river. Jesus Cht. So what you've got.

1:20:37 Speaker 4: You've got Charlie and Calvin here, You've got over here

1:20:42 Speaker 4: Rusty Anderson on the bridge, on the bridge, You've got

1:20:46 Speaker 4: the other side. You've got mister Lewis Lee in the shipyard.

1:20:49 Speaker 4: And then you've got Pamela Railey eaves about a mile

1:20:52 Speaker 4: this way. And then if you're adding the Blairs, yeah,

1:20:58 Speaker 4: so they're only in the whole river covered, yeh yeh. Now,

1:21:04 Speaker 4: when when we had Maria Uh hypnotized, I used the

1:21:09 Speaker 4: same hypnotists while we could to put Calvin on the

1:21:12 Speaker 4: hypnosis again and filmed it. Not that we needed to,

1:21:17 Speaker 4: and we just thought it were good to have it

1:21:18 Speaker 4: on the record visually.

1:21:20 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

1:21:21 Speaker 4: And this time I put some questions for the hypnotist.

1:21:26 Speaker 1: Questions.

1:21:27 Speaker 4: Well yeah, but she knew what to expect now, so

1:21:31 Speaker 4: I said, just ask Calvin. When he's stood on that

1:21:36 Speaker 4: pier with his fish, you know, he's rolling the water,

1:21:39 Speaker 4: can he just describe what he sees in front of him,

1:21:43 Speaker 4: not behind him, what happens? So Calvin, she asked the questions.

1:21:48 Speaker 4: He said, yeah, he said, there's a boat going up

1:21:51 Speaker 4: and there was the company name on it and oh

1:21:54 Speaker 4: a noah.

1:21:56 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you're getting corroborating evidence for the other side.

1:21:59 Speaker 1: Other side.

1:22:00 Speaker 4: Well, then he says, there's the bridge there and you know,

1:22:04 Speaker 4: and he said, and right at the end, Tyler the

1:22:07 Speaker 4: little throwaway comment. He says, oh, there's two figures on

1:22:13 Speaker 4: the other side of the river. Now is that the Blairs?

1:22:19 Speaker 4: Is it someone else? We'll never know because if you

1:22:23 Speaker 4: don't listen carefully, you'll miss it. And I jumped when

1:22:27 Speaker 4: he said it and answered, what That's not what we

1:22:31 Speaker 4: expected at all. So so we have all that on

1:22:37 Speaker 4: record on you.

1:22:38 Speaker 1: Maria in her regression sees Calvin and Charles possibly and

1:22:45 Speaker 1: now Calvin is seeing possibly the Blairs on the other side.

1:22:52 Speaker 1: This is I mean, it's blows my mind how this

1:22:55 Speaker 1: case is not the smoking gun.

1:22:58 Speaker 4: Well, to me, it is. It's the case. I mean,

1:23:03 Speaker 4: I started in this subject back in the nineteen eighties

1:23:06 Speaker 4: and I never thought I'd end up with anything like this,

1:23:09 Speaker 4: and it keeps growing. There's other stuff as well, and

1:23:12 Speaker 4: we could be here all night. What we've done. You

1:23:17 Speaker 4: showed a little piece of it. I've worked with Nacy Weird.

1:23:23 Speaker 4: We've made a four part documentary there. It is Pastor

1:23:26 Speaker 4: Gooula seventy.

1:23:27 Speaker 1: Three, very well made.

1:23:30 Speaker 4: It tells some of these stories. So you'll see Maria

1:23:32 Speaker 4: on there, both under hypnosis and number interview. You'll see

1:23:37 Speaker 4: vintage footies of Charlie and Calvin. You see Calvin under hypnosis.

1:23:41 Speaker 4: You'll see a bit about me that is on Amazon

1:23:45 Speaker 4: Prime now, so if you are a subscriber to Amazon Prime,

1:23:48 Speaker 4: you can watch that completely free of charge wherever you

1:23:51 Speaker 4: are in the world. It's a four part series.

1:23:54 Speaker 1: It's a really darcy One. Thing I really really love

1:23:58 Speaker 1: about Darcy is I mean he's just a machine. I

1:24:03 Speaker 1: mean he really is. He's a machine, and you know

1:24:07 Speaker 1: he is again he I liken him to you in

1:24:12 Speaker 1: that category of people who aren't prone to believing everything.

1:24:17 Speaker 1: For instance, I mean, you have a lot to say

1:24:20 Speaker 1: about a lot of the you know, modern post twenty

1:24:23 Speaker 1: seventeen UFO stuff, and I know you have your views.

1:24:29 Speaker 1: You're not one of these guys who just believes every

1:24:31 Speaker 1: story they're told, And neither is Darcy. No.

1:24:35 Speaker 4: I mean now, I work closely with Darcy on as

1:24:37 Speaker 4: he came to my house being in England and interviewed me,

1:24:41 Speaker 4: and I think he's done a great job. He's got

1:24:44 Speaker 4: some great reconstructions, some fantastic graphics that aren't the kind

1:24:48 Speaker 4: of cheat and cheerful stuff you can just download online.

1:24:52 Speaker 4: He's right done his best. And we've got a lot

1:24:55 Speaker 4: of vintage stuff on there as well, because almost we

1:24:58 Speaker 4: can't interview any of the guys now they both passed away,

1:25:03 Speaker 4: so we have to rely on what we have in

1:25:05 Speaker 4: that respect. But again, thanks to friends and colleagues out there,

1:25:09 Speaker 4: we've uncovered a whole raft of other visual material since

1:25:15 Speaker 4: we made that documentary.

1:25:17 Speaker 1: All right, So the case keeps grolly.

1:25:20 Speaker 4: It keeps growing. There is more to come. There is

1:25:24 Speaker 4: more to come. And I'll give you one example. It's

1:25:27 Speaker 4: not exactly the case, but out of the blue, somebody

1:25:33 Speaker 4: sent me a link and said, I've just listened to

1:25:35 Speaker 4: this on YouTube. What it was. A gentleman had recorded

1:25:42 Speaker 4: his father, I think it's immobile Alabama, and his father

1:25:49 Speaker 4: had a sighting on October nineteen seventy three. In fact,

1:25:55 Speaker 4: he saw it several times the same night. It was

1:25:57 Speaker 4: out on a double date and they saw this thing

1:26:01 Speaker 4: and he took the girlfriend home and he sees it again.

1:26:03 Speaker 4: He's even got a period of missing time. So this

1:26:07 Speaker 4: this chap had the sense to record his father and

1:26:11 Speaker 4: then upload that recording to YouTube. There's no visual, it's

1:26:16 Speaker 4: just it's just audience. Yeah, but it's another it's mobile

1:26:21 Speaker 4: is not that far away, I think from from Pasca, Gooula,

1:26:25 Speaker 4: and it's October nineteen seventy three, spopped into my inbox.

1:26:31 Speaker 4: I don't know the person that sent it, you know.

1:26:34 Speaker 4: So we've got our we're out there. Yeah. So now

1:26:40 Speaker 4: when people are finding an information, they think, oh, was

1:26:42 Speaker 4: that guy who's been doing all the work, and that

1:26:45 Speaker 4: that mantle fellow. I'll send him this, send him this.

1:26:49 Speaker 1: Right. So that's and I think people feel comfortable with

1:26:52 Speaker 1: you because you're not you don't you don't touch them,

1:26:56 Speaker 1: You take a will you asked the way questions, And

1:26:58 Speaker 1: I think people feel comfortable with someone like you who

1:27:02 Speaker 1: you know, it's not going to call them crazy or

1:27:05 Speaker 1: you know what we've.

1:27:06 Speaker 4: Done with that, with the information we've built upright, that

1:27:10 Speaker 4: is again we leave that door open. This is what

1:27:12 Speaker 4: we've found, This is who the witnesses are, this is

1:27:15 Speaker 4: what they had to say. We've interviewed. These are photographs,

1:27:18 Speaker 4: these are the documents. You make up your own mind.

1:27:23 Speaker 4: We're not trying to indoctrinate anybody and say this is

1:27:26 Speaker 4: what happened. In my opinion, and it was only an opinion,

1:27:31 Speaker 4: is that we had to begin with, we had two

1:27:34 Speaker 4: ordinary men who encountered something extraordinary that night that has

1:27:40 Speaker 4: since expanded much further than we ever imagined.

1:27:46 Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be. It could honestly be one of

1:27:48 Speaker 1: the most well documented mass sightings. I mean, at this point,

1:27:57 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty safe to say that, you know,

1:28:00 Speaker 1: like like you we talked about in the beginning that

1:28:03 Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt, there was a craft that that

1:28:07 Speaker 1: was up that that that was in the air over

1:28:11 Speaker 1: the Pascagoula River, not up in the sky, specifically over

1:28:15 Speaker 1: the river, and I mean, it's it's just remarkable. And

1:28:21 Speaker 1: then the Coastcard comes in they see something underwater. We

1:28:23 Speaker 1: were you know, it's not related.

1:28:25 Speaker 4: Maria Blair said, you saw it coming down the river,

1:28:29 Speaker 4: and she wondered, so you wondered, she wondered if they

1:28:32 Speaker 4: were using the river as.

1:28:33 Speaker 1: A map, you follow the river exactly.

1:28:37 Speaker 4: It's just you know, and of course, since we made

1:28:42 Speaker 4: the documentary. Since we wrote that book, a lot of

1:28:45 Speaker 4: the news stuff is in another book called Pasca Gooler Oncoboard.

1:28:49 Speaker 4: That's that's out now, but there's there's a lot more

1:28:52 Speaker 4: in there that hasn't seen the light of day. Videos

1:28:59 Speaker 4: that's the one. So we've got more material in that

1:29:03 Speaker 4: with We've closed a few loose ends and settled that

1:29:07 Speaker 4: because I'm talking about the bridge tender that night he

1:29:11 Speaker 4: didn't He was in the newspaper said I didn't.

1:29:13 Speaker 1: See anything, and so that's funny that they tried to

1:29:17 Speaker 1: use that as as.

1:29:18 Speaker 4: A However, there was a UFO researcher. I thinks Richard

1:29:25 Speaker 4: Hayden wrote to the bridge tender and it wasn't as

1:29:31 Speaker 4: obstructive when he was contacted by a UFO researcher rather

1:29:35 Speaker 4: than the press. He's saying, well, I'm want looking, I'm

1:29:38 Speaker 4: doing something.

1:29:39 Speaker 1: Else, right, So it's probably a case of the media

1:29:45 Speaker 1: kind of taking the words. Kind of what Calvin was

1:29:49 Speaker 1: worried about, right, was the words being miskewed. So the

1:29:53 Speaker 1: bridge tender could have more or less said, you know,

1:29:56 Speaker 1: I didn't see anything, but I also wasn't looking for something,

1:30:00 Speaker 1: you know.

1:30:01 Speaker 4: So what you see in the new book is the

1:30:03 Speaker 4: actual letters themselves a quote from them that I reproduced

1:30:07 Speaker 4: the letters so you can read it for yourself. Tyler.

1:30:10 Speaker 4: You know now the main debunker in nineteen seventy three

1:30:15 Speaker 4: was the late Philip Class.

1:30:18 Speaker 1: Oh my lord, so.

1:30:22 Speaker 4: Philip Class tried to say that Charlie Hickson's polygraph test

1:30:28 Speaker 4: was null and void because the guy who gave him

1:30:31 Speaker 4: it only a few weeks after the event wasn't qualified.

1:30:36 Speaker 4: It was called Scott Glasgow. And not only that, Scott

1:30:40 Speaker 4: Glasgow came from New Orleans, and it was saying why

1:30:44 Speaker 4: didn't they use a couple of the local people found

1:30:49 Speaker 4: out that the local people there were two places in

1:30:52 Speaker 4: the area that could have done it. One said, I'm

1:30:55 Speaker 4: not getting involved with UFO, was full stop. The other

1:30:58 Speaker 4: one said, we only run polygraphs some people who have

1:31:01 Speaker 4: been the kids of a crying mister Parker, and mixed

1:31:04 Speaker 4: the Hickson avant. Now, when this all took off, when

1:31:08 Speaker 4: it all happened, the shipyard gave Charlie and Calvin the

1:31:12 Speaker 4: use of their attorney. It was called Mike Klingo. They

1:31:16 Speaker 4: didn't need him, but it's just something the shipyard did.

1:31:19 Speaker 4: Just so happened, mister Kolingo. You a detective agency in

1:31:24 Speaker 4: New Orleans that theyd polygraphs and they could get him

1:31:27 Speaker 4: to do it for nothing. So they shipped the guy,

1:31:30 Speaker 4: Scott Glasgow over and he was qualified because during the lockdown,

1:31:37 Speaker 4: you remember the lockdown, the COVID lockdown.

1:31:39 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't think anyone could forget the terrible.

1:31:43 Speaker 4: And detective agency in New Orleans was still open and

1:31:48 Speaker 4: it was still the same guy that ran it. So

1:31:50 Speaker 4: I wrote to them and then they replied to me

1:31:53 Speaker 4: by an email and they explained the situation. So we

1:31:58 Speaker 4: closed that door. But but it doesn't really matter it

1:32:01 Speaker 4: tally because if you pass a polygraph test, skeptics will say, well,

1:32:05 Speaker 4: they're not admissible in core. If you fail it, you're

1:32:08 Speaker 4: a goddamn liar. So you can't win either way. But

1:32:13 Speaker 4: the polygraph examine it was very skeptical and he ran

1:32:16 Speaker 4: the test three times because he wanted Charlie to fail.

1:32:21 Speaker 1: Of course, it is very funny that you use you

1:32:26 Speaker 1: said that like that, because right, if you pass the polygraph,

1:32:31 Speaker 1: well you know it's it's only it's only a tool

1:32:35 Speaker 1: among among others. But if you fail it, it's you failed.

1:32:39 Speaker 1: You're you must be lying this is what. Yeah, so

1:32:44 Speaker 1: it's it's I think it's good to put that into

1:32:47 Speaker 1: context as well, because.

1:32:49 Speaker 4: That's that's in past cooler uncovered and it's a lot

1:32:53 Speaker 4: more in there as well.

1:32:55 Speaker 1: Right, And you know, you and I have talked privately,

1:33:01 Speaker 1: you know, with also with doctor Irena Scott. But I

1:33:07 Speaker 1: think something bigger happened in the span of that September

1:33:12 Speaker 1: area to the December nineteen seventy three. There are so

1:33:18 Speaker 1: many cases. It seems like the UFO there must have been.

1:33:25 Speaker 1: It seems like there was a surge in activity in

1:33:27 Speaker 1: the year nineteen seventy three.

1:33:29 Speaker 4: Well, we also have to remember Dr Scott now in

1:33:33 Speaker 4: October nineteen seventy three, she lives in Ohio, but she

1:33:37 Speaker 4: was in Missouri. She was studying for a PhD. Yeah,

1:33:42 Speaker 4: and a mother foonder have you heard that big bang?

1:33:47 Speaker 1: Yeah?

1:33:48 Speaker 4: No, I don't know what you're talking about. There's been

1:33:51 Speaker 4: this huge bang, this huge noise. You know, it's rattled

1:33:55 Speaker 4: the windows and so on. I mean it didn't think

1:33:59 Speaker 4: much of it around the next day. So there's been

1:34:02 Speaker 4: UFO sightings. People are hiding under the tables and what

1:34:05 Speaker 4: iver heard. Dr Scott wasn't involved in UFO research stage

1:34:10 Speaker 4: was stunning for a PhD. She thought they're all bonkers.

1:34:13 Speaker 4: So some years later, this event popped back into her

1:34:18 Speaker 4: consciousness for some reason, and she remembered the year, and

1:34:23 Speaker 4: she remembered the month, but she couldn't figure out when

1:34:26 Speaker 4: it was. And she went to the local reference library

1:34:30 Speaker 4: and looked through the old newspaper cuts and she found

1:34:33 Speaker 4: the details of it. This huge I call it a

1:34:37 Speaker 4: sonic boom, She tells me off for that. It wasn't

1:34:39 Speaker 4: a sonic boom, but it's best way I can describe it.

1:34:43 Speaker 4: It was eleventh October the eleventh, nineteen seventy three. It happened.

1:34:49 Speaker 4: It was across the same date, went halfway across the

1:34:54 Speaker 4: United States. So what I really did? She put on

1:34:58 Speaker 4: her scientist's head and try to figure out how this

1:35:02 Speaker 4: noise had been made, And she couldn't find any anything,

1:35:06 Speaker 4: you know, jet aircraft, rockets, meteorites, you name it. She

1:35:11 Speaker 4: worked with others on it. She couldn't find an explanation whatsoever.

1:35:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, am I mistaken in saying that this is

1:35:19 Speaker 1: I think it's one of It is either the first

1:35:22 Speaker 1: or second loudest second hoarded noise ever.

1:35:27 Speaker 4: Yeah, second normally to the island of Krakatoa.

1:35:31 Speaker 1: Right, yes, yes, okay, So second, yeah, so what could

1:35:36 Speaker 1: possibly make such a sound?

1:35:40 Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, Irena is the Irene is

1:35:44 Speaker 4: the scientist, not meaning she couldn't find an.

1:35:46 Speaker 1: Answer, and and I mean this is heard. I mean

1:35:52 Speaker 1: not not to mention the fact that it's the same

1:35:54 Speaker 1: exact day as the passing Google case halfway across the

1:35:59 Speaker 1: kind entry or or some miles away, but that this

1:36:04 Speaker 1: sound was So could this s been you know, a

1:36:07 Speaker 1: portal or an opening in the space time, Like I mean,

1:36:11 Speaker 1: your mind starts to go so many different places with

1:36:14 Speaker 1: it with the optic in activity, the UFO activity.

1:36:18 Speaker 4: One of the one of the little things that is

1:36:20 Speaker 4: that's not necessarily a smoking gun, but a fascinating thing.

1:36:27 Speaker 4: Happened after the last book came out. Sadly, after Darsy's

1:36:34 Speaker 4: documentary was finished, I was contacted by a guy called

1:36:38 Speaker 4: mister Van Payne. Mister Payne thought he was the first

1:36:45 Speaker 4: person to interview Charlie and Calvin. After their encounter, I said, okay,

1:36:54 Speaker 4: what mister van Payne was He was a photo journalist

1:36:57 Speaker 4: at the time, only a young guy. But he said,

1:37:01 Speaker 4: I had a contact in the Sheriff's Department, and I

1:37:05 Speaker 4: was tipped off Charlie and Calvin said, when I got there,

1:37:11 Speaker 4: they're gone. So he said. I went back the next morning,

1:37:17 Speaker 4: and of course they were gone again. They'd gone to

1:37:19 Speaker 4: the Singing River Hospital. He went there, he missed them again.

1:37:25 Speaker 4: They've gone to Keysla Air Force Base. So we went

1:37:29 Speaker 4: out to Keysler Air Force Base and he waited outside

1:37:34 Speaker 4: and when they came out, he asked for an interview

1:37:37 Speaker 4: on camera, and they said no, so he persuaded them

1:37:44 Speaker 4: to be interviewed with their backs to the camera. They've

1:37:48 Speaker 4: got their backs to the camera and he's here in

1:37:50 Speaker 4: front of us with his microphone and the camera's here

1:37:53 Speaker 4: and he interviews them and it so that's the first

1:37:58 Speaker 4: ever me your interview with Charlie and Calvin, and he

1:38:03 Speaker 4: sent me and we have permission to use it. Not

1:38:07 Speaker 4: only that Tyler. Of course, this was all on film

1:38:11 Speaker 4: in those days, not digital. It's film built the longest

1:38:16 Speaker 4: piece of film. There's another interview that mister Payne did.

1:38:21 Speaker 4: This time it's with the Civil Defense Establishments. They're meteorologist.

1:38:26 Speaker 4: Can't remember his name off the top of my head, huh,

1:38:30 Speaker 4: but he tracks something on radar.

1:38:33 Speaker 1: There was radar evidence, absolutely.

1:38:37 Speaker 4: And we have him. Yeah, we mister Van Payne interviews

1:38:41 Speaker 4: him in his radar station office whatever you want to

1:38:45 Speaker 4: call it, and then you know there's no cover up.

1:38:49 Speaker 4: The guy sat there with talking away and what is

1:38:53 Speaker 4: really interesting, there's there a two final interviews. These are

1:38:58 Speaker 4: completely different. There was a local taxi driver claim that

1:39:03 Speaker 4: a UFO landed in front of him and this crab

1:39:06 Speaker 4: like creature came out. He forgot that his power was

1:39:12 Speaker 4: part behind him and he didn't see anything that I

1:39:16 Speaker 4: want interviewed as well, saying it's talking bunk coming. So

1:39:20 Speaker 4: we even had a hope thrown in for good measure.

1:39:24 Speaker 1: Just for good. Do you think that there's a possible Well,

1:39:27 Speaker 1: I won't go down that route because we could speculate

1:39:29 Speaker 1: about that all day and say do you think that

1:39:32 Speaker 1: that that They tried to inject some nonsense and.

1:39:37 Speaker 4: The guy stepped forward, so as a journalist would go

1:39:41 Speaker 4: and interview him, can you either use it or you don't?

1:39:44 Speaker 4: You know, they would have only used seconds, if not minutes,

1:39:51 Speaker 4: of these interviews on a news broadcast. We've got that,

1:39:54 Speaker 4: we've got the whole lot, so we can show it all.

1:39:59 Speaker 1: If he'd be do you think, I do want to

1:40:03 Speaker 1: kind of get into speculative territory here. I mean with

1:40:07 Speaker 1: the topic coming so far. You know, I think that

1:40:11 Speaker 1: if you asked, you know, out of one hundred people

1:40:17 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, you know, if UFOs existed, maybe

1:40:21 Speaker 1: twenty to thirty would say yes and the rest would

1:40:24 Speaker 1: probably say no. But if you took that same survey today,

1:40:27 Speaker 1: I think ninety nine out of one hundred would say

1:40:30 Speaker 1: that there's life outside of Earth. Whether it's coming here,

1:40:33 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a different story. But the topic has progressed. Nonetheless,

1:40:38 Speaker 1: hearings in Congress, you know, pretty high level testimony, some

1:40:44 Speaker 1: videos coming out that are military recorded. People are much

1:40:51 Speaker 1: in a much more, more, much more of that headspace.

1:40:55 Speaker 1: Do you think that well, I guess. Do you think

1:41:03 Speaker 1: that this will remain It will remain as the most

1:41:10 Speaker 1: like well documented case and maybe one that could be

1:41:16 Speaker 1: used to usher in some sort of disclosure because you

1:41:19 Speaker 1: said earlier Charles had talked about how these beings wanted

1:41:23 Speaker 1: to help humanity.

1:41:24 Speaker 5: Uh.

1:41:25 Speaker 1: Could it have been that this chain reaction was set

1:41:28 Speaker 1: off to have the story be told and have it

1:41:32 Speaker 1: to come together at the right time. You know, people

1:41:36 Speaker 1: maybe people weren't ready for it back then, but they

1:41:37 Speaker 1: are now and the evidence is mounted so much. Uh,

1:41:42 Speaker 1: you know, it just seems like I maybe I'm maybe

1:41:45 Speaker 1: I'm pulling at straws here, but uh, maybe Charles wasn't wrong.

1:41:50 Speaker 1: Maybe he was one of the devices that these beings

1:41:54 Speaker 1: that occupied the craft were going.

1:41:55 Speaker 4: Well, probably not an old child. All we can say is, look,

1:41:58 Speaker 4: we accumulated all this information, all this documentation, and all

1:42:03 Speaker 4: these witnesses. What does it amount to, right, you know,

1:42:08 Speaker 4: what is it we're dealing with here? So even the

1:42:12 Speaker 4: skeptics have moved the goal pusts because initially Philip class

1:42:16 Speaker 4: just said it was a hoax, just down right now. Yeah,

1:42:19 Speaker 4: well that was one of his his standard fallbacks. He

1:42:23 Speaker 4: couldn't figure it out, just call it, just call it

1:42:25 Speaker 4: a hoax, you know. And I've got Philip Plass's whole

1:42:29 Speaker 4: file on it, and he's not looking to research it.

1:42:33 Speaker 4: He's just looking for some some dirt to throw, because

1:42:36 Speaker 4: you know, if you throw enough dirt some of it sticks,

1:42:39 Speaker 4: then you had another gentleman. Right. In twenty thirteen, Joe

1:42:44 Speaker 4: Nickel was part of the same skeptics organization. Joe now

1:42:49 Speaker 4: called it some kind of psychological explanation for them. So

1:42:55 Speaker 4: he called it more or less. I can't pronounce it properly,

1:42:58 Speaker 4: excuse me, but it's called a fure it. It's a

1:43:00 Speaker 4: follier dere It's where two people can have and you know,

1:43:08 Speaker 4: a phantom whatever at the same time, the losing every experience.

1:43:16 Speaker 1: A shared hallucination.

1:43:18 Speaker 4: Yeah, but what tends to happen with that is that

1:43:21 Speaker 4: somebody has a very strong belief and then you have

1:43:25 Speaker 4: a weak willed second person and he impassed not on him.

1:43:30 Speaker 4: Eventually he believes it. Yes, again, it's Charlie and Calvin

1:43:34 Speaker 4: had only been together a day. They didn't even work together,

1:43:40 Speaker 4: so they were only together driving to work and trapping

1:43:44 Speaker 4: home the night. Calvin lived two hundred miles away, so

1:43:48 Speaker 4: and they have the exact same, not the exact same,

1:43:52 Speaker 4: but very very similar experiences. So even the skeptics come

1:43:57 Speaker 4: twenty thirteen and moved there their goals on it. And

1:44:01 Speaker 4: I tried to explain this to Calvin. I said, even

1:44:04 Speaker 4: if it was a shared experience, would't that be fantastic?

1:44:07 Speaker 4: We could study that. Yeah, but it's not. You know,

1:44:13 Speaker 4: Calvin wanted an answer. If I could have said, look,

1:44:16 Speaker 4: I found it this is the answer. Whatever now X was,

1:44:20 Speaker 4: this is the he would have been happy with it.

1:44:22 Speaker 4: Another guy who was a British author. A few miles

1:44:28 Speaker 4: up the way is a place called Horn Island, and

1:44:32 Speaker 4: I believe the military have done some tests there with

1:44:37 Speaker 4: various chemicals and so on, but it closed in the

1:44:41 Speaker 4: nineteen sixties, and he believed that this was some kind

1:44:46 Speaker 4: of military experiment where they put on a hallucinogenic spray

1:44:50 Speaker 4: into the air.

1:44:53 Speaker 1: And again it's almost it's almost more ridiculous to say, there's.

1:44:58 Speaker 4: Boats, there's boats flowing not down the river, there's there's

1:45:01 Speaker 4: traffic going on by the bridge. You're really gonna put

1:45:05 Speaker 4: a hallucinogenic agent into the atmosphere? You know?

1:45:10 Speaker 1: That sounds like a batman villain, you know, it doesn't.

1:45:15 Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost more ridiculous to say.

1:45:17 Speaker 4: Well, then I read I read another one that it

1:45:20 Speaker 4: was the Russians. These creatures were actually Russians dressed in

1:45:27 Speaker 4: their underwater swimming outfit and they were behind them and

1:45:32 Speaker 4: the Russian there was nobody in the water. You know,

1:45:37 Speaker 4: these weren't Russian spies in you know, with their aquils

1:45:41 Speaker 4: on the goggles.

1:45:46 Speaker 1: If if if, if you're gonna say something like that,

1:45:52 Speaker 1: at least have some you know, again, the evidence, the

1:45:58 Speaker 1: puncture marks, the the the corroborating witnesses, all the evidence,

1:46:03 Speaker 1: all the data is suggesting this something extraordinary happened. And

1:46:09 Speaker 1: what these people are trying to say, Yeah, it's a

1:46:12 Speaker 1: Russian Okay, where is the evidence to suggest that exactly?

1:46:18 Speaker 4: You know, and I forget it was the head of

1:46:22 Speaker 4: is it Michael?

1:46:23 Speaker 1: Is it Sherma Michael.

1:46:26 Speaker 4: Yes, he's sort of the head of the skeptics movement.

1:46:29 Speaker 4: I've tried to get in touch with him to debate

1:46:32 Speaker 4: this case, but I've never managed to be successful. I

1:46:35 Speaker 4: would gladly do that, but maybe that's for the future.

1:46:40 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. But so if we're going to

1:46:44 Speaker 1: get into a little speculation here before we before we

1:46:46 Speaker 1: wrap up, but what do you I mean, do you

1:46:50 Speaker 1: think that these these beings, if if we're assumed, if

1:46:56 Speaker 1: we're going to go on the notion that there is

1:46:59 Speaker 1: some sort of non human uh intelligence. It's not some

1:47:03 Speaker 1: black black budgets special access program.

1:47:08 Speaker 5: You know, like.

1:47:11 Speaker 1: You know, some something like that. If we're on the

1:47:13 Speaker 1: notion that it's non human intelligence, I mean, what do

1:47:19 Speaker 1: you do you think that those beings that they saw

1:47:22 Speaker 1: were because they were different than how like people would

1:47:26 Speaker 1: often describe the grays or.

1:47:28 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean they are they are unique to this case,

1:47:32 Speaker 4: unique English creatures roots or right from the very beginning,

1:47:40 Speaker 4: Charlie and Calvin called them robots simply because of the

1:47:43 Speaker 4: way they moved. I couldn't hear them breathing. They never

1:47:46 Speaker 4: made a noise, and we have that on the recordings

1:47:49 Speaker 4: that were made, you know, within two days this happening.

1:47:54 Speaker 4: One of those recordings is is Dr Heinek interviewing that

1:47:58 Speaker 4: showed Fred Diamond and they're talking about robots. So it's

1:48:03 Speaker 4: not something that was invented at some point, you know,

1:48:07 Speaker 4: in the future. They were talking about it there and then.

1:48:10 Speaker 4: And of course Calvin in his encounters saw this female creature.

1:48:15 Speaker 4: It's almost almost human. He did say she looked like

1:48:19 Speaker 4: to have them. He had a mask on, but she

1:48:20 Speaker 4: was almost human. And this is Calvin, you know, he

1:48:23 Speaker 4: did have a sense of humor. I said, well, what

1:48:25 Speaker 4: did she look like? He says, all I can tell

1:48:27 Speaker 4: you is if you saw it in a bar, you

1:48:29 Speaker 4: buy a drink. Yeah, that's the way. That's the way

1:48:33 Speaker 4: he could describe it. So she was she was they

1:48:37 Speaker 4: were in charge.

1:48:39 Speaker 1: Good looking woman, but she had a little bit of

1:48:42 Speaker 1: an extended middle finger.

1:48:43 Speaker 4: That's right, Yeah, yeah like that.

1:48:46 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:48:46 Speaker 4: She was also in Calvin's Encounters when he was a

1:48:51 Speaker 4: young fella. He saw the one in nineteen ninety three.

1:48:57 Speaker 4: And we're going to finish off and say that there

1:49:00 Speaker 4: was another encounter in nineteen ninety two, and we'll do

1:49:05 Speaker 4: with that at some point in the future. It's featured

1:49:07 Speaker 4: in my book. But it's something again that's unique and

1:49:13 Speaker 4: needs discussing at lengthing the future. Absolutely, we may we

1:49:17 Speaker 4: may be working on something to do that.

1:49:20 Speaker 1: Yes, we may be doing that, so I may. It

1:49:24 Speaker 1: gets me excited. That's why I love talking about this

1:49:26 Speaker 1: case because it's just like it is one, you know,

1:49:29 Speaker 1: because there are other Betty and Barney Hills, like there

1:49:32 Speaker 1: are these stories that that and again, you know, back

1:49:37 Speaker 1: then it was the world was a lot different than

1:49:40 Speaker 1: it is today, right. It's it's just for all these

1:49:46 Speaker 1: people to have seen something similar. The amount of production

1:49:51 Speaker 1: that we need to go into that and I and

1:49:54 Speaker 1: that's you know, in part why I brought up the

1:49:56 Speaker 1: alien autopsy because you know, that was a production so

1:50:00 Speaker 1: people put that together and you know, the evidence inevitably

1:50:04 Speaker 1: came out against it to that that it was a

1:50:07 Speaker 1: hoax or you're not not maybe a hoax, but it

1:50:10 Speaker 1: was made for something else and then used out of context.

1:50:13 Speaker 1: But you know, you've been on both sides. You know,

1:50:18 Speaker 1: you've you've seen a case. Uh you know where it

1:50:22 Speaker 1: leads and and when it falls apart.

1:50:25 Speaker 3: Uh.

1:50:25 Speaker 1: But with Pascal Gula, that just simply hasn't happened. It.

1:50:28 Speaker 1: It keeps getting more interesting as the years go on

1:50:31 Speaker 1: and the evidence mounths.

1:50:33 Speaker 4: Absolutely, you know, some of the loopholes that we thought

1:50:36 Speaker 4: were there that when you look into it, they're not.

1:50:39 Speaker 4: It's easy enough to close them.

1:50:41 Speaker 1: Right, And like I said, the amount of work that

1:50:45 Speaker 1: would have needed to go into to generally hoax this

1:50:48 Speaker 1: and have everybody on the same page. Uh, it's just

1:50:51 Speaker 1: it's it's just it's stupid. So two things, real quick.

1:50:56 Speaker 1: Do you have the radar evidence?

1:50:59 Speaker 4: No, would you have the gentleman talking about it, the

1:51:02 Speaker 4: guy who actually saw.

1:51:04 Speaker 1: You'd be obtainable?

1:51:07 Speaker 4: I think it unlikely, but we have his testimony nonetheless.

1:51:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right, yeah, because.

1:51:14 Speaker 4: I have to remember it. In the in those days,

1:51:17 Speaker 4: a lot of things used to get wiped because they

1:51:20 Speaker 4: needed to reuse it again. I mean yeah, it's like

1:51:24 Speaker 4: TV companies here that recorded things on video, they lost

1:51:27 Speaker 4: you unique archives because they're simply taped over them. Yep.

1:51:30 Speaker 4: It was just save money.

1:51:33 Speaker 1: That's why when the government, you know, when people fia

1:51:36 Speaker 1: the government and then they say, you know, we destroyed

1:51:39 Speaker 1: that evidence or we you know, they're like, how how

1:51:43 Speaker 1: could you do? So I'm like, it's easier than you think.

1:51:47 Speaker 4: That's why when when when we got the Coast Guard documents,

1:51:50 Speaker 4: they tell you what they have, We interviewed this, this, this,

1:51:55 Speaker 4: and this, all the people interviewed, and then it says

1:51:57 Speaker 4: tape recorder. So what they're putting together those documents is

1:52:01 Speaker 4: based on those interviews. And there's a tape recording. It's

1:52:04 Speaker 4: highlighted there. So we've got the documents. It is the

1:52:08 Speaker 4: tape still available? I don't know. But if you don't,

1:52:12 Speaker 4: if you don't, ask Tyler, and if you come back

1:52:14 Speaker 4: and say no, well that's another avenue. You know, you

1:52:17 Speaker 4: don't have to worry about it anymore. But if they've

1:52:19 Speaker 4: got it, then can we have a copy? Please?

1:52:23 Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, because that would be I mean, oh my god,

1:52:28 Speaker 1: would that be I mean oof? One more thing, you know,

1:52:34 Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up is do you think that

1:52:35 Speaker 1: it's possible that Philip Close was uh controlled opposition?

1:52:42 Speaker 4: I don't know. I think I think Philip, you know,

1:52:45 Speaker 4: played both sides. It kept him in the in the limelights.

1:52:50 Speaker 4: I don't understand why a skeptic would be like that, but.

1:52:54 Speaker 3: You have it.

1:52:54 Speaker 4: In the paranormal field. You sa have James Randy for example.

1:52:57 Speaker 4: I mean he he was a greater Gella. Yeah, but

1:53:03 Speaker 4: that made him famous, you know, the more attacked Glory,

1:53:07 Speaker 4: the more famous he got, and the more famous, you know,

1:53:11 Speaker 4: the great James Brandy got. And I've met an interview

1:53:15 Speaker 4: with Thegether, you know, I've sat in his living room.

1:53:18 Speaker 4: It's a house that he's got in England, and not necessarily,

1:53:24 Speaker 4: you know, but I used to work for a magazine.

1:53:28 Speaker 4: They wanted an interview with him. I traveled down and

1:53:31 Speaker 4: sat a very nice guy, very nice man, and we

1:53:36 Speaker 4: talked a lot about football, more than anything he has.

1:53:41 Speaker 4: He now has his own museum in Tel Aviv, so

1:53:45 Speaker 4: I think he's back out living there. Whether he's moved

1:53:48 Speaker 4: out of the area because of the ongoing hostilities or not,

1:53:52 Speaker 4: I don't know. But his house was worth a fortune.

1:53:55 Speaker 4: His house was worth a fortune, Tyler and I saw,

1:54:00 Speaker 4: I said, I said, Uri, you didn't buy this house

1:54:06 Speaker 4: bending spoones for a living. Where they hell did you

1:54:10 Speaker 4: get your money from? And he said, you're right, Philip.

1:54:14 Speaker 4: I got my money from downsing for oil and I

1:54:17 Speaker 4: was paid on results. Don't find any oil, don't get

1:54:20 Speaker 4: any money. And he told me that and we became

1:54:25 Speaker 4: friendly for a while. And in nineteen ninety nine I

1:54:30 Speaker 4: had a name fatal heart attack and I was in

1:54:32 Speaker 4: hospital and already rung the hospital and thanked the nurses

1:54:37 Speaker 4: for looking after me, and he sent them a signed

1:54:40 Speaker 4: card thanking them, and had no reason to do that.

1:54:44 Speaker 4: I just did it out of the blue, really, So

1:54:47 Speaker 4: it's a really nice guy. I don't believe in virtually

1:54:51 Speaker 4: anything he says. But he said he doesn't care. It's

1:54:55 Speaker 4: like Charlie and Calvin. I don't care whether he believe me,

1:54:59 Speaker 4: but Calvin would saying he told me a liar. If

1:55:02 Speaker 4: you call me a liar, I'm going to punch your

1:55:04 Speaker 4: light self. And as the same, I don't care if

1:55:07 Speaker 4: you believe me, but if you call me a hooser,

1:55:10 Speaker 4: I'll sue you. You know, it's a different approach. One

1:55:15 Speaker 4: time Calvin met Philip class and he told him exactly

1:55:19 Speaker 4: what he was going to do to him if you again, you.

1:55:23 Speaker 1: Know, yeah, I put the fear of God into him

1:55:26 Speaker 1: because because Calvin's a big boy, he was a tough guy.

1:55:32 Speaker 4: Calvin didn't mind a fight at all. And he said

1:55:35 Speaker 4: at high school, if any if any bothered, anybody bothered

1:55:38 Speaker 4: with his brother, then they got me to deal with, you.

1:55:41 Speaker 1: Know, exactly so, and that's the type of person he was.

1:55:45 Speaker 1: And that's not the type of person who And again

1:55:48 Speaker 1: he's a very reserved person. Anyone can see that from

1:55:52 Speaker 1: any of the interviews and any of the the the

1:55:55 Speaker 1: kind of the witness, not not the witness, but the researcher. Everyone.

1:55:59 Speaker 1: The way they talk about Calvin is that he was

1:56:02 Speaker 1: he was kind of like a teddy bear. He was big, big,

1:56:06 Speaker 1: but he he believed in God hard.

1:56:11 Speaker 4: He disliked all politicians, so he didn't take any of

1:56:14 Speaker 4: anybody political stance. When he was younger, he said he

1:56:18 Speaker 4: found two guys in the woods beating up a black guy.

1:56:22 Speaker 4: So Calvin got hold of these two guys and knocked

1:56:24 Speaker 4: seven bells out of them, you know. So he wasn't racist.

1:56:28 Speaker 4: You know. And it was a hard working, honest guy,

1:56:33 Speaker 4: you know. And in October nineteen seventy three, he had

1:56:37 Speaker 4: his life set out, was getting married in November's going

1:56:42 Speaker 4: to get married by a house, have children, have grandchildren, retired.

1:56:47 Speaker 4: That was it. That was it. But that night, October

1:56:51 Speaker 4: the eleventh, nineteen seventy three, changed his life forever.

1:56:56 Speaker 1: History had plans for Calvin, History had plans.

1:57:02 Speaker 5: It.

1:57:03 Speaker 1: I want to I'm just go this, you know, end

1:57:05 Speaker 1: here is that I want to hear you say it.

1:57:09 Speaker 1: Everything that you've heard, after everything that you've seen, everything

1:57:14 Speaker 1: you've dug into. Do you believe Charles Hickson and Calvin

1:57:21 Speaker 1: Parker were abducted by a non human intelligence in October

1:57:25 Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy three.

1:57:27 Speaker 4: I don't think we can prove that. I think we

1:57:30 Speaker 4: can prove that something quite extraordinary happened. So these two

1:57:35 Speaker 4: individuals and maybe others and were witnessed in part by others.

1:57:41 Speaker 4: But what happened to when Tyler, you know, it's for

1:57:45 Speaker 4: somebody else smarter than me to figure out. You know.

1:57:49 Speaker 4: The way I look upon my role is to document

1:57:52 Speaker 4: these incidents and put that into the growing pile of

1:57:58 Speaker 4: evidence that we have, hopefully somebody somewhere will we'll figure

1:58:02 Speaker 4: it out, somebody smarter than me. What I will say,

1:58:05 Speaker 4: something very bizarre happened. What your guess is as good

1:58:11 Speaker 4: as mine?

1:58:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and uh, Phil, I mean I think I

1:58:18 Speaker 1: think the community, the the UFO researching community, owes such

1:58:23 Speaker 1: a great debt to you, uh, for for how much

1:58:27 Speaker 1: legwork you've put into this case. If it wasn't for you,

1:58:31 Speaker 1: we wouldn't have Calvin Is. We wouldn't have Calvin's book.

1:58:34 Speaker 1: He probably wouldn't have come forward the way he came forward. Uh,

1:58:38 Speaker 1: and we wouldn't have had any time with him, you

1:58:42 Speaker 1: know if albeit uh you know, the latter half of

1:58:47 Speaker 1: his life, we wouldn't have had anything. I think. Uh,

1:58:50 Speaker 1: I think you you were the bridge that brought him

1:58:55 Speaker 1: into the light, that allowed him to tell his story

1:58:59 Speaker 1: and not feel subjugated or crazy or anything like that.

1:59:04 Speaker 4: We became good friends, yes, and Calvin would I'd earned

1:59:09 Speaker 4: his trust. No matter what we did, I would not

1:59:13 Speaker 4: do it without Calvin say so, right, And he would say,

1:59:17 Speaker 4: you don't have to ask me. I said, Calvin, this

1:59:19 Speaker 4: is your story, not mine. Yes, you know it's easy

1:59:22 Speaker 4: for me to say. Yes, I said to me, if

1:59:27 Speaker 4: you don't want to do these things, then don't do them.

1:59:29 Speaker 4: There's nobody going to say anything. For example, he spoke

1:59:32 Speaker 4: at a few conventions. Nobody made him do that. It

1:59:36 Speaker 4: wanted to do it. There is a movie written about Calvin.

1:59:40 Speaker 4: I've read the script and it might be moving forward

1:59:44 Speaker 4: at some point. But I warned him. I warned him,

1:59:47 Speaker 4: I said, Calvin, if you go down the movie roope,

1:59:50 Speaker 4: it may that the end finishing part may not be

1:59:54 Speaker 4: one hundred percent accurate.

1:59:56 Speaker 1: Right look at Fire in the Sky with Travis Vaulton.

1:59:59 Speaker 4: Be aware of that and if if, if, if you

2:00:01 Speaker 4: don't want to do it, nobody's going to force you.

2:00:04 Speaker 4: But he's done it. And the writers worked closely with Calvin.

2:00:08 Speaker 4: They spoke to him, Reddy's books, they would check things

2:00:12 Speaker 4: on it. I've read the screenplay. Each is about ninety

2:00:17 Speaker 4: accurate as it stands that if it ever goes into production,

2:00:20 Speaker 4: that can change. Of course.

2:00:22 Speaker 1: Was it a film or was it a This is

2:00:25 Speaker 1: a series?

2:00:26 Speaker 4: No, this is a feature film. There's been two written.

2:00:29 Speaker 4: There's been a feature film written and a four part

2:00:32 Speaker 4: drama series. Whether we'll never see any of them in

2:00:35 Speaker 4: production is a different matter. But they are there well I.

2:00:39 Speaker 1: Think the time is ripe for green lighting anything for

2:00:45 Speaker 1: us to do with UFOs. I think right now is

2:00:49 Speaker 1: in the zeitgeist, you know, I mean, what's your what's

2:00:54 Speaker 1: your take on the because I didn't want to ask this,

2:00:57 Speaker 1: but I forgot what I mean, what's your take on

2:01:00 Speaker 1: all the latest whistleblower stuff happening? And I mean, do

2:01:05 Speaker 1: you think there's a possible chance of an actual disclosure

2:01:09 Speaker 1: of some sort like? Has that changed for you?

2:01:13 Speaker 4: No? No, simple as that. No, they don't. Waste of time,

2:01:16 Speaker 4: all of them.

2:01:17 Speaker 1: Okay, Hey, I respect that. I respect that.

2:01:21 Speaker 4: Mister Hope I'm wrong, you know, I would be happy

2:01:24 Speaker 4: to something common poke finger up me and say you

2:01:26 Speaker 4: were wrong. I all my hands up. Complete waste of time.

2:01:31 Speaker 4: Don't don't listen to them. There's nothing I mean when

2:01:35 Speaker 4: you talk about disclosure. They keep saying, all the government's

2:01:40 Speaker 4: got this government? How the hell are you now? We've

2:01:43 Speaker 4: got it right? You know?

2:01:45 Speaker 1: Right?

2:01:46 Speaker 5: Right?

2:01:46 Speaker 4: I mean there, you know, I think the government, whoever

2:01:52 Speaker 4: the hell the government is, because I'm gonna tell you

2:01:54 Speaker 4: who the hell they mean? Yeah, they don't know any

2:01:59 Speaker 4: more than we do. Because you or I don't investigate UFOs.

2:02:06 Speaker 4: We investigate sightings of UFOs. So by the time we

2:02:09 Speaker 4: get to the wustiness, it's been and gone, and they

2:02:13 Speaker 4: keep talking about alien crashers and how many crashes can

2:02:19 Speaker 4: they be?

2:02:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what really never sat right with me.

2:02:25 Speaker 4: How long do you stop sending spaceships from whatever the

2:02:27 Speaker 4: hell they're coming from? If before you realize the crashing

2:02:30 Speaker 4: it If we go back to Roswell supposedly with the

2:02:34 Speaker 4: you know, the earliest crash, you traverse the galaxy somehow

2:02:39 Speaker 4: to get here, and then what do you do? You

2:02:42 Speaker 4: crash in the desert.

2:02:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think.

2:02:46 Speaker 4: Roswell was a balloon. I'll go on the record and

2:02:50 Speaker 4: I've written an article about it. And the reason I've

2:02:53 Speaker 4: come to that conclusion is because Marcel's Junior was the

2:02:57 Speaker 4: first to see the eye beams with these inscriptions on.

2:03:01 Speaker 4: We all think I've met Jesse's been here, lovely guy

2:03:05 Speaker 4: telling the truth. If you look at the wreckage of

2:03:09 Speaker 4: the photographs that were taken in General Ramie's office, Yeah,

2:03:14 Speaker 4: they were taken by a photographer called James Bond Johnson.

2:03:17 Speaker 4: It's a radar reflector and under the don't know if

2:03:22 Speaker 4: it's under the chair and on the table is the

2:03:24 Speaker 4: balloon because it started to go gray or brown. It's

2:03:28 Speaker 4: been in the sun for a while, right, there's a

2:03:31 Speaker 4: piece of something sticking out at the end, you know,

2:03:33 Speaker 4: something supporting. I'm pretty sure that when you look at

2:03:37 Speaker 4: the enhanced image, it's got one of those markings on

2:03:43 Speaker 4: that Marcel talks about, one of those hieroglyphs. Really, so

2:03:50 Speaker 4: if it's got a hieroglyphic and General Rami's office, then

2:03:54 Speaker 4: the jump that his father put on the office on

2:03:57 Speaker 4: his kitchen floor that night, it's also a balloon. Yeah,

2:04:04 Speaker 4: that's my take on it. Yeah, I said, I've just

2:04:09 Speaker 4: released an article of a guy who said he's seeing

2:04:11 Speaker 4: photographs of the aliens of as well. So I may

2:04:15 Speaker 4: be totally wrong. That is just my.

2:04:20 Speaker 1: But that's why I like you, Phil is your you're

2:04:24 Speaker 1: like and and people take take a cueue here, because

2:04:29 Speaker 1: I think that what we've lost is the ability to

2:04:34 Speaker 1: be like you and to be willing to be wrong.

2:04:38 Speaker 1: Actually you probably hope you're wrong in most but you're

2:04:42 Speaker 1: also not dense, and you're not gonna believe that everyone's

2:04:45 Speaker 1: channeling aliens and and you know, talking about uh crash retrievals.

2:04:53 Speaker 1: And I get it. I get where you're coming from,

2:04:55 Speaker 1: your your your skeptical skeptical believer, you.

2:05:00 Speaker 4: Know your whole it is is most UFO sightings that

2:05:05 Speaker 4: are reported to us have a conventional explanation.

2:05:09 Speaker 1: Yes, and I think we all know that.

2:05:12 Speaker 4: And that will be the same to the be it

2:05:14 Speaker 4: to the US military or whoever. That's why they keep

2:05:20 Speaker 4: They'll have these little grainy pieces of crap that's released

2:05:24 Speaker 4: and for a few few months down the line, they'll

2:05:27 Speaker 4: say it's a balloon, but it's an airplane because they

2:05:31 Speaker 4: finally got around to having a look at it. Just

2:05:34 Speaker 4: because it's the air force or the government doesn't necessarily

2:05:37 Speaker 4: mean for getting any better quality data than we are

2:05:42 Speaker 4: as civilians. In fact, I would say we get more

2:05:45 Speaker 4: data than they do. We're actively looking for it. And

2:05:50 Speaker 4: I think some civilian organizations do a pretty damn god.

2:05:54 Speaker 4: Some do crap, but some do a pretty damn good job.

2:05:58 Speaker 1: And I agree.

2:06:00 Speaker 4: I wondered what would happen if we had something like

2:06:05 Speaker 4: Pascagoula happened today, but but it involved a serving military personnel.

2:06:13 Speaker 4: They could be at home on leave, you know, don't

2:06:15 Speaker 4: have to be in uniform or anything like that.

2:06:17 Speaker 1: That's what I mean.

2:06:19 Speaker 4: Then, then what would happen.

2:06:21 Speaker 1: I think that the world would have the world would shatter.

2:06:25 Speaker 4: I keep getting all these accusations or they're not allowed

2:06:29 Speaker 4: to tell them, or they'll get killed. That what's his

2:06:32 Speaker 4: fellow from down under? All there's been people killed to

2:06:35 Speaker 4: keep these Who's being killed?

2:06:40 Speaker 1: Who?

2:06:41 Speaker 4: Who the hell's been murdered to keep this quiet? Surely

2:06:45 Speaker 4: if they'd been murdered to keep this quiet? Did a

2:06:48 Speaker 4: shot you? You buge for releasing it? There? The shot

2:06:51 Speaker 4: you first, you know, don't make any sense.

2:06:55 Speaker 1: You know, I will agree with you there and and

2:07:01 Speaker 1: and that's the good thing is we can live in

2:07:04 Speaker 1: a world where we know that ninety five percent of

2:07:07 Speaker 1: sightings and and encounters most likely have a prosaic explanation.

2:07:12 Speaker 1: But there's that last five percent. And out of that

2:07:15 Speaker 1: five percent, there's really like one percent.

2:07:17 Speaker 4: And I think you are the You are the first

2:07:20 Speaker 4: person I've heard you say they say that apart from

2:07:22 Speaker 4: mein Tyler. Yeah, because it's it's a lot less than

2:07:26 Speaker 4: five percent. We get an occasional case that comes along

2:07:30 Speaker 4: every now and again. You know, yes, that and that's

2:07:34 Speaker 4: what we're looking for.

2:07:36 Speaker 1: That's only one of them has to be one, only one.

2:07:41 Speaker 4: I think I think this one is. You know, because

2:07:45 Speaker 4: of everything that we've we've we've managed to come across,

2:07:50 Speaker 4: we found extra witnesses and extra witnesses coming in slowly mature.

2:07:55 Speaker 4: There are others out there. I know for a fact. Yeah,

2:07:58 Speaker 4: I'll show you how one last thing and I gotta go.

2:08:03 Speaker 4: I mentioned Chelsea Norton Prince. She runs the Ocean Springs

2:08:07 Speaker 4: Historical Society. She met Calvin, she bought a book, put

2:08:11 Speaker 4: a couple of posts on her Facebook page. One of

2:08:14 Speaker 4: her members, called Bethany, said, in twenty eleven, when Charlie

2:08:21 Speaker 4: Hixon died, my mum and dad bought his house and

2:08:26 Speaker 4: he had these boxes of papers in it. Now do

2:08:29 Speaker 4: you want them? You want them? She gave them to Chelsea.

2:08:34 Speaker 4: Chelsea knew what I was at, so she contacted me

2:08:37 Speaker 4: and said, do you want a copy of them, Philip,

2:08:41 Speaker 4: And I'll tell you what. She digitized them in rapid procession.

2:08:46 Speaker 4: Now there's no smoking guns in it, because these are

2:08:48 Speaker 4: around the nineteen nineties. However, and we'll just leave it here.

2:08:53 Speaker 4: There's one letter in there from a NASA physicist. His

2:08:58 Speaker 4: name's on it, his address on it. I checked him out.

2:09:02 Speaker 4: He isn't it wasn't n as a physicist. I think

2:09:04 Speaker 4: it's deceased now. But he wrote to Charlie Hickson and said,

2:09:09 Speaker 4: when your encounter took place, I went to my boss

2:09:13 Speaker 4: and asked him to investigate it. And the decline.

2:09:20 Speaker 1: Holy shit.

2:09:22 Speaker 4: So if he's telling the truth and we have no

2:09:24 Speaker 4: reason to suspect that he asked his boss at NASA

2:09:29 Speaker 4: to look into the Hixon and Parker event and they declined,

2:09:33 Speaker 4: would we do the same now?

2:09:35 Speaker 1: I don't know, And who knows. Maybe they declined publicly

2:09:40 Speaker 1: or you know, you know, they declined him, but once

2:09:43 Speaker 1: they knew of it, you know, maybe they started looking

2:09:46 Speaker 1: at it. And I can imagine something like that happening.

2:09:51 Speaker 1: So who knows, who really does know? That's a That's

2:09:54 Speaker 1: a really good place to leave it on. And I'll

2:09:57 Speaker 1: say that, Uh, there's more. The the pastor Goola case is,

2:10:02 Speaker 1: it's there's more coming. There's there is more coming. Phil,

2:10:09 Speaker 1: You are such a treasure man. I am so happy

2:10:12 Speaker 1: that that I've I've gotten to know you over the years,

2:10:15 Speaker 1: and uh, it's still one of my favorite guests of

2:10:18 Speaker 1: all time. I think, like I said, the your four

2:10:21 Speaker 1: community has owed a tremendous debt to someone like yourself.

2:10:25 Speaker 1: You've put so much work and time in how can

2:10:28 Speaker 1: people follow what is going on in Philip Mantle's world?

2:10:33 Speaker 1: Any any books coming out?

2:10:35 Speaker 4: Well, you've We've got the two books out now Beyond

2:10:37 Speaker 4: reasonable Doubt and Pascogola Uncovered. Please avail yourself of those.

2:10:42 Speaker 4: They follow on from each other. We have Pasco Googler

2:10:45 Speaker 4: seventy three, the four part documentary series out now on

2:10:48 Speaker 4: Amazon Prime, produced by Darcy wear and then with more

2:10:52 Speaker 4: to come in the future you know.

2:10:56 Speaker 1: To come, Yeah, and and you know things that are

2:11:01 Speaker 1: you know in more in media more. I think that

2:11:05 Speaker 1: are going to be more more immersive and and they're

2:11:08 Speaker 1: going to be able to show that you know, there's

2:11:13 Speaker 1: like like your your book says with the title, I

2:11:16 Speaker 1: think that's such a spot on title. Is beyond a

2:11:18 Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. I mean because I think this case, like

2:11:21 Speaker 1: you said, if you brought it up to a jury

2:11:25 Speaker 1: of our peers and presented the case in its fullest,

2:11:29 Speaker 1: I think the evidence suggests that, as you say, something

2:11:33 Speaker 1: happened on the night of October eleventh, nineteen seventy three.

2:11:36 Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely all right, Phil, the great great pleasure talking

2:11:41 Speaker 4: to you, Tyler.

2:11:42 Speaker 1: As always my friend you you know, and we have

2:11:45 Speaker 1: some talking to do. I'll email you and we'll get

2:11:49 Speaker 1: on the horn. For everyone else, make sure to like, share,

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2:11:55 Speaker 1: leave us a rating and a review. It really helps

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2:12:00 Speaker 1: and support the channel further, we'll open it up now. Uh,

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2:12:22 Speaker 1: is worth you. With that being said, we'll see you

2:12:24 Speaker 1: on the next time. We'll see you on the next time.

2:12:27 Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense, we'll see you next time.

2:12:31 Speaker 5: Learn to speak

2:13:12 Speaker 1: I