Are UFOs Glitches in the Simulation? | Reality, Mandela Effect & The Nature of God (Ft. Rizwan Virk) PT.1

0:00 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, before we get into this episode, I just

0:04 Speaker 1: wanted to make a quick PSA if you will. Now

0:07 Speaker 1: in this episode, Riswan and I have an amazing, amazing conversation.

0:13 Speaker 1: He was one of the first guests that was in

0:17 Speaker 1: studio and I am still obviously working out some kinks.

0:21 Speaker 1: As you'll see in the episode, I needed to have

0:24 Speaker 1: him correct his mic positioning, and unlike Joe Rogan, who

0:28 Speaker 1: will tell you right up, you know, move up on

0:30 Speaker 1: the microphone, I didn't do it. And we weren't wearing headphones.

0:35 Speaker 1: Another rookie mistake. This is an audio podcast. Most of

0:39 Speaker 1: my audience is on audio platforms. I definitely need to

0:43 Speaker 1: work on that. It's something that it's obviously imperative to

0:47 Speaker 1: get right and to be better. So just know that

0:51 Speaker 1: I am listening, I am we are working on it.

0:55 Speaker 1: I am very very sorry for any inconvenience. The episode

0:59 Speaker 1: is a I highly recommend that you watch this episode

1:03 Speaker 1: on YouTube, as it is filmed in the new studio

1:07 Speaker 1: and it's amazingly shot, amazingly edited by our new editor

1:12 Speaker 1: Corie Lindsay. Also, I noticed by the analytics that most

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1:48 Speaker 1: With that being said, I hope you enjoyed today's conversation

1:51 Speaker 1: with risban Verk.

2:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all.

2:18 Speaker 1: Right, it's start. So I mean again if you want

2:24 Speaker 1: to say thank you to start as you want to

2:26 Speaker 1: say that you're for doing this because you know, for me,

2:29 Speaker 1: it's like I said, it's it's a really full circle moment.

2:33 Speaker 1: You're the first guest. Guest. I had a couple other

2:36 Speaker 1: people in here, but they're locals, uh Gene and Nat Sticko.

2:40 Speaker 1: So I just want to say again, thank Youriz for

2:43 Speaker 1: being is okay? All right, all right, let's get into it.

2:49 Speaker 1: Yeah all right, welcome back to Total Disclosure. My name

2:56 Speaker 1: is Ty Roberts, and today we're diving head first into

3:00 Speaker 1: a mind bending theory that challenges the very nature of

3:05 Speaker 1: the world around us, or what socially we describe as reality,

3:09 Speaker 1: The Simulation Hypothesis. Our guest is someone uniquely qualified to

3:15 Speaker 1: help us navigate this digital rabbit hole. I was very

3:19 Speaker 1: happy to meet him at a recent conference Contact in

3:22 Speaker 1: the Desert, and now we're sitting here in the studio.

3:26 Speaker 1: Riswan Wrk is a graduate of MIT and a successful

3:29 Speaker 1: tech entrepreneur, investor, and best selling author. His books including

3:35 Speaker 1: coming out next week or this week whenever we're watching

3:39 Speaker 1: a brand new second edition of The Simulation Hypothesis and

3:42 Speaker 1: The Simulated Multiverse, Having will capture the imagination of millions

3:47 Speaker 1: by blending quantum physics, computer science, philosophy, and ancient wisdom.

3:53 Speaker 1: He's founded multiple tech companies, helped launch startups through play

3:57 Speaker 1: Labs via MIT, and even dip his toes in Hollywood

4:00 Speaker 1: as a film producer. I'm so sorry about that, making

4:04 Speaker 1: him a rare bridge between science, storytelling and speculative thought.

4:09 Speaker 1: Could our reality be nothing more than a sophisticated simulation?

4:13 Speaker 1: Could you have fos, the paranormal, synchronicities, and even disclosure

4:17 Speaker 1: all be features or bugs in the program? And more importantly,

4:22 Speaker 1: who or what is running it? Riz, thank you for

4:25 Speaker 1: being air. Let's log in, let's log, let's log into

4:29 Speaker 1: the simulation to find out. Yeah, Riz, thank you for

4:32 Speaker 1: being air. On total disclosure, I'm going to start because

4:36 Speaker 1: I know I kind of want to go headfirst in

4:39 Speaker 1: what first led you to explore the simulation hypothesis in

4:44 Speaker 1: the depths that you've done, and how did your background

4:47 Speaker 1: at MIT influence your approach on this?

4:50 Speaker 3: Sure, well, you.

4:51 Speaker 4: Know, my background is as a computer scientist, an engineer,

4:56 Speaker 4: and then as a tech entrepreneur, and not surprisingly, those

5:01 Speaker 4: are the disciplines or paths that really led me into

5:04 Speaker 4: this rabbit hole that we now referred to as simulation theory.

5:08 Speaker 4: And so what happened was when I sold my last

5:12 Speaker 4: startup back in like twenty sixteen or so, I was

5:18 Speaker 4: visiting another game company in San Francisco, actually across San

5:22 Speaker 4: Francisco Bay in Marin County, and they had developed a

5:25 Speaker 4: virtual reality ping pong game, and so I had this

5:28 Speaker 4: VR headset on and they said, you got to try this,

5:31 Speaker 4: you got to try that.

5:31 Speaker 3: Okay, let's try it.

5:32 Speaker 4: Put it on and it was a room about this size,

5:35 Speaker 4: and it was a big bulky headset and there were

5:37 Speaker 4: wires coming from the ceiling. I mean, VR headsets improved

5:40 Speaker 4: quite a bit. I think it was the HTC Vibe.

5:44 Speaker 3: And I started playing this Ping Pong table tennis game.

5:47 Speaker 4: And what happened was during this game, the graphics weren't

5:51 Speaker 4: that great.

5:52 Speaker 3: And so I was in the video game industry for

5:55 Speaker 3: quite a few years.

5:56 Speaker 4: And of course I'm familiar with the evolution of video

5:59 Speaker 4: games all, you know, throughout my lifetime.

6:02 Speaker 3: When I was a kid, I played the Atari.

6:04 Speaker 1: Like the original Pong, right it was originals.

6:07 Speaker 4: And original well the original because it was original home

6:10 Speaker 4: version right right. And then arcades we had Space Invaders,

6:13 Speaker 4: which you know, for pretty much the game that most

6:16 Speaker 4: people have heard of.

6:17 Speaker 3: This is kicking off the industry.

6:19 Speaker 4: The industry actually kicked off with Pong in like the

6:21 Speaker 4: early nineteen seventies, so that.

6:23 Speaker 3: Was even before Wow.

6:24 Speaker 4: I think it was seventy two or seventy four when

6:27 Speaker 4: they released the physical arcade.

6:29 Speaker 1: Right right, Wow, it's and you can kind of see

6:33 Speaker 1: the evolution to like Space Invaders, like how how the

6:38 Speaker 1: Leap went, Like it's it's kind of similar and like

6:41 Speaker 1: it's very basic in its nature. It's but it's just

6:44 Speaker 1: repetitive it's fun. It's just a side note. But yeah,

6:48 Speaker 1: that's so. So that's how So how did that derive

6:51 Speaker 1: into you thinking about this on a deeper level.

6:54 Speaker 4: Well, it's usially Pong because the game keeps coming up

6:58 Speaker 4: when you're talking about this subject. But you know, I

7:02 Speaker 4: saw the eight big games from Atari and Nintendo back

7:07 Speaker 4: in the eighties, and then you saw, you know, the.

7:10 Speaker 3: Sixteen bit games.

7:11 Speaker 4: And there's a slide that I show sometimes like a

7:14 Speaker 4: contact in the desert and elsewhere that shows the evolution

7:16 Speaker 4: of racing games. And so if go back to one

7:20 Speaker 4: of the original games, I think it was called Pole Position,

7:23 Speaker 4: and I used to watch this game on my Atari

7:25 Speaker 4: and you'd be going around the racetrack and there would

7:28 Speaker 4: be these.

7:29 Speaker 3: Characters in the bleachers. I mean they were really basic,

7:32 Speaker 3: two D blurry. As a kid, I would start to.

7:35 Speaker 4: Wonder, Okay, what happens to these characters when I'm not around?

7:39 Speaker 4: Or there would be a scene of Mount Fuji in

7:40 Speaker 4: the distance, and I'd wonder, okay, what's beyond the race track?

7:44 Speaker 4: Is there really a virtual world out there? So video

7:47 Speaker 4: games and science fiction kind of played a role.

7:49 Speaker 3: But then you see the sixteen bit racing games, and

7:52 Speaker 3: they look better.

7:53 Speaker 4: Then you see the thirty two bit and sixty four

7:55 Speaker 4: and you see that they're so realistic now that they

7:58 Speaker 4: look like the real cities there. And so going back

8:01 Speaker 4: to the VR ping Pong experience, so I was playing

8:03 Speaker 4: table tennis in virtual reality, and for a moment, my

8:07 Speaker 4: mind or my body.

8:09 Speaker 3: Forgot that I was in a VR headset, and I

8:11 Speaker 3: thought I.

8:11 Speaker 4: Was playing a real game of table tennis, so much

8:14 Speaker 4: so that I tried to put the paddle down on

8:16 Speaker 4: the table, and I tried to lean against the table, but.

8:19 Speaker 3: Of course there was no there was no tables.

8:22 Speaker 4: Fell to the floor and I almost fell over, so

8:24 Speaker 4: I had to do a double ta. So I said

8:26 Speaker 4: to myself, Okay, based on that really bad graphics, really

8:31 Speaker 4: bulky headset with wires, there was no mistaking that I

8:34 Speaker 4: was not playing a real game.

8:36 Speaker 3: But the responsiveness the physics engine was so good.

8:39 Speaker 4: That it fooled my brain and my body just for

8:42 Speaker 4: an instant into thinking it was real. So I began

8:44 Speaker 4: to wonder how long would it take us to build

8:48 Speaker 4: something like the Matrix that was so immersive and so

8:52 Speaker 4: realistic that you would basically forget there's a world outside, right,

8:57 Speaker 4: and you know. At the time, I was in Silicon

8:59 Speaker 4: Valley and I was building video games. So it became

9:02 Speaker 4: a technology discussion initially, and I laid out these ten

9:06 Speaker 4: stages of technology to get to what I called the

9:08 Speaker 4: simulation point. And I defined the simulation point as a

9:13 Speaker 4: theoretical point where we can build virtual realities that are

9:17 Speaker 4: indistinguishable from physical realities with AI characters that are indistinguishable

9:22 Speaker 4: from characters controlled by humans, right, or avatars or biological

9:27 Speaker 4: beings as well. And so that's how I started going

9:30 Speaker 4: down the rabbit hole. But of course after I looked

9:32 Speaker 4: into that, and I had other VR experiences as well

9:35 Speaker 4: we can talk about, but that was the one that

9:37 Speaker 4: only stuck.

9:37 Speaker 3: In my memory.

9:38 Speaker 4: But then I started to look at quantum physics, and

9:41 Speaker 4: I realized there were so many strange things going on

9:43 Speaker 4: with quantum physics that it just wouldn't make sense for

9:47 Speaker 4: us to be in a physical world. Why would you

9:49 Speaker 4: do these things. On the other hand, if we were

9:50 Speaker 4: in a virtual world, these things which are pretty much,

9:54 Speaker 4: you know, very so confusing, that can't be understood. I mean,

9:58 Speaker 4: Richard Feinman, nobody understands quantum acts.

10:02 Speaker 3: Right. On the other hand, I think I can safely

10:04 Speaker 3: say that nobody understands quantum mechanics.

10:09 Speaker 4: And then I started looking at the spiritual traditions and

10:13 Speaker 4: the religious scriptures and what the mystics of these traditions.

10:16 Speaker 3: Have been telling us.

10:18 Speaker 4: And the mystics have basically been telling us that the

10:21 Speaker 4: world is some kind of a hoax, and they were

10:23 Speaker 4: able to peek outside the simulation.

10:26 Speaker 1: And come back and go, and at least that's.

10:28 Speaker 3: The terminology I like to use.

10:30 Speaker 4: So given the combination of these three things, the technology,

10:34 Speaker 4: the science, the religion, the spiritual side of religions, if

10:39 Speaker 4: you will, and philosophy, you know, it turned out all

10:43 Speaker 4: of these were pointing to something very interesting. And I

10:45 Speaker 4: had explored different aspects of consciousness as well. I was

10:48 Speaker 4: kind of living a double life where during the day

10:50 Speaker 4: I was running my startup, dealing with engineering things, dealing

10:55 Speaker 4: with VCS and finance, but in the evenings and the weekends,

10:58 Speaker 4: I would fly off to you know, the Monroe Institute

11:01 Speaker 4: to try to do an auto body experience, or I

11:03 Speaker 4: would do really So I had been living this double

11:06 Speaker 4: life for a while, but it was interesting for me

11:09 Speaker 4: because it pulled together the simulation hypothesis.

11:13 Speaker 3: That's why I wrote this book is.

11:15 Speaker 4: That it pulled together all the threads of my life

11:18 Speaker 4: and that's how I got into.

11:19 Speaker 2: All of this.

11:21 Speaker 1: Wow, I remember, I've only done it once. I put

11:25 Speaker 1: on a VR headset. It was it was the PlayStation one,

11:29 Speaker 1: like the one of the first ones. So it wasn't

11:30 Speaker 1: like tied to the It wasn't like that. But you're

11:33 Speaker 1: right it after about an hour, it fooled me like

11:38 Speaker 1: it fooled my senses and my my my brain, or

11:42 Speaker 1: the way you explained it, it tricked to my consciousness

11:46 Speaker 1: into thinking that it was base reality. And I start,

11:49 Speaker 1: like you said, start, you start thinking things are there

11:52 Speaker 1: because I was ducking. It was one of those shooter

11:54 Speaker 1: games you run around and it's like it was like

11:56 Speaker 1: stick figures. So the graphics again are terrible, so I

11:59 Speaker 1: can relate to that experience. And again, these are where

12:03 Speaker 1: these questions start coming from.

12:05 Speaker 4: You have you tried some of the latest V heads

12:09 Speaker 4: Now if you try.

12:10 Speaker 3: The Apple Vision Pro.

12:11 Speaker 4: Now that it wasn't successful as a commercial product because

12:14 Speaker 4: it was like three thousand.

12:15 Speaker 1: Four thousand dollars not feasible.

12:16 Speaker 4: It wasn't that comfortable, but the graphics level is amazing

12:20 Speaker 4: to the point where I would look up and I

12:22 Speaker 4: would see my hands, But.

12:24 Speaker 3: Turns out they were reproducing my hands.

12:27 Speaker 4: So they were able to take the room and digitally

12:30 Speaker 4: add things into the room that looked very real even

12:34 Speaker 4: though they're not really there.

12:35 Speaker 3: So that's called.

12:36 Speaker 1: Augment augmented reality right right, And.

12:39 Speaker 4: It's like you have a little control where you can

12:41 Speaker 4: set the transparency so that it actually can reproduce the room,

12:46 Speaker 4: or it can just produce like a movie theater that

12:48 Speaker 4: you're not actually in that looks.

12:49 Speaker 1: Like why you're on the moon. I saw one that

12:53 Speaker 1: like someone was watching a movie on the moon like

12:55 Speaker 1: that they put themselves on the moon and then you know,

12:57 Speaker 1: put the movie up. I'm like, what the So then

13:01 Speaker 1: this is all leading me too well, I guess for

13:06 Speaker 1: you kind of explained what it is, but in simple terms,

13:12 Speaker 1: what is the what is what the simulation hypothesis is,

13:16 Speaker 1: and how it's different from just science fiction concepts like

13:21 Speaker 1: the matrix from the movie, because there's there's a difference.

13:25 Speaker 4: Yeah, So first of all, I would say that simulation

13:28 Speaker 4: hypothesis has its origins in philosophy and in science fiction, right,

13:33 Speaker 4: and I think in the West, the best expressions of

13:36 Speaker 4: this idea do come from science fiction, so it becomes

13:39 Speaker 4: the easiest way to explain the concept. But if I

13:43 Speaker 4: were to define it, I would say it's basically the

13:46 Speaker 4: idea that what we see around us this table, you know,

13:52 Speaker 4: anything on the table is not really a physical reality,

13:56 Speaker 4: but in fact is a virtual reality.

13:58 Speaker 3: So it's been generated based on information.

14:02 Speaker 4: And so you know, there's a couple of assumptions that

14:05 Speaker 4: go behind that, right, which is that the universe is

14:07 Speaker 4: based on information, and the second one is that that

14:10 Speaker 4: information is rendered for us.

14:13 Speaker 3: In a real time to make it look real, right, right.

14:16 Speaker 4: So we think and then the implications of that are

14:19 Speaker 4: that this is some kind of a hoax, that all

14:22 Speaker 4: of this.

14:22 Speaker 3: Now there's different flavors.

14:24 Speaker 4: Of the simulation hypothesis what we can go into a

14:26 Speaker 4: little bit later, which I in PC versus RPG version,

14:29 Speaker 4: but that's the basic idea.

14:31 Speaker 3: Now you can go back to science fiction writers like

14:34 Speaker 3: Philip K. Dick.

14:35 Speaker 4: He gave a speech in Mets, France in nineteen seven,

14:39 Speaker 4: So I think about that nineteen seventy seven. I mean,

14:41 Speaker 4: this is before you know the IBM PC, right, I

14:44 Speaker 4: think the Apple one or Apple two maybe was just

14:47 Speaker 4: coming out, and he gave a speech and people can

14:50 Speaker 4: see it on YouTube where he said, we are living

14:52 Speaker 4: in a computer programmed reality, and the only clue we

14:56 Speaker 4: have to it has when some variable has changed, some

14:59 Speaker 4: alteration hers in our reality.

15:02 Speaker 1: We are living in a computer program reality. So that

15:07 Speaker 1: could explain deja vu or the Medela effect.

15:12 Speaker 4: Yeah, so his next line is, we would have a

15:15 Speaker 4: sense of deja vu. We would think that we were

15:19 Speaker 4: repeating the same experiences or we were saying the same

15:23 Speaker 4: things again and again. And so he had to be

15:27 Speaker 4: a clue that there was something weird about reality and

15:31 Speaker 4: that reality was being run like a computer program and

15:35 Speaker 4: it can run multiple times.

15:36 Speaker 3: But so that was you know, Philip k Did was

15:38 Speaker 3: a science fiction writer.

15:39 Speaker 4: Some people might say, okay, he took too many drugs

15:42 Speaker 4: back then. If you watch that video, people are in

15:44 Speaker 4: the audience, including his friends.

15:46 Speaker 3: One of his friends, Joan Simpson I think was her name.

15:48 Speaker 3: She was sitting there and they're just like, what are

15:49 Speaker 3: you talking about?

15:50 Speaker 1: Right? Right?

15:52 Speaker 3: Lost it right.

15:53 Speaker 4: But it turns out that in the same year as

15:54 Speaker 4: the Matrix, there was another blockbuster or such a movie

15:59 Speaker 4: called The Thirteenth Floor.

16:00 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm so so glad you brought that up.

16:03 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so that turns out was based on a.

16:07 Speaker 4: Science fiction novel was based on a TV show, a

16:10 Speaker 4: German TV show, but that was based on a science

16:13 Speaker 4: fiction novel from the nineteen sixties by a guy named

16:16 Speaker 4: Daniel Gluye, which was called Some Mela chron three. So

16:19 Speaker 4: you can see this concept bubbling up in science fiction

16:23 Speaker 4: for a long time. Of course, the Matrix is the

16:25 Speaker 4: best known representation of it, and the Wachowski's who made

16:29 Speaker 4: the Matrix were said they were inspired by Philip K.

16:33 Speaker 3: Dick. As an aside, I interviewed Philip K. Dick's wife when.

16:36 Speaker 4: I was writing the first version of this book, and Tessa,

16:40 Speaker 4: she's you know, she's still around.

16:42 Speaker 3: You can interview her. Actually, she's she's pretty old now,

16:45 Speaker 3: I guess. I don't know how exactly in the area. No,

16:47 Speaker 3: she's not. She's not here. She's in California.

16:50 Speaker 1: Okay, well, so, yeah.

16:52 Speaker 3: Is where she lives, somewhere around there.

16:54 Speaker 1: I'd love to talk to her, Yeah, I was.

16:55 Speaker 4: Anyway, I asked her, so, what would you know Philip

16:58 Speaker 4: think about the Matrix? And she said, well, his first

17:02 Speaker 4: thought would be that he would love it, you know,

17:04 Speaker 4: the ideas or ideas he's been playing with. But his

17:06 Speaker 4: second thought would be to call his agent and say,

17:08 Speaker 4: can I sue these guys?

17:09 Speaker 3: We're still with my ideas.

17:12 Speaker 1: Ipte that I love it, but so.

17:15 Speaker 4: So the idea has been around in science fiction for

17:17 Speaker 4: a while, but it's really as computer technology and video

17:20 Speaker 4: games and AI technology popular and better at representing things,

17:28 Speaker 4: that this idea has caught on, and mostly thanks to

17:32 Speaker 4: a guy named Nick Bostrom who's a philosopher at Oxford, Okay,

17:35 Speaker 4: And he wrote a paper in two thousand and three,

17:37 Speaker 4: So we're talking just a couple of years.

17:39 Speaker 1: After The Matrix comes out ninety nine, right.

17:41 Speaker 3: Yeah, ninety nine. It was in March thirty first, nineteen

17:45 Speaker 3: ninety nine.

17:45 Speaker 4: And a couple of years later Nick Boston released his

17:48 Speaker 4: paper say that was titled are You Living in a

17:51 Speaker 4: Computer Simulation? And he came at it from a philosophical

17:55 Speaker 4: perspective but also from the perspective of AI.

17:58 Speaker 3: And his basic argument, which you call the simulation argument, was.

18:02 Speaker 4: If somebody can build AI characters that have all of

18:07 Speaker 4: the memories that we have and all of the processing,

18:11 Speaker 4: uh you know powers that we have, right that it

18:14 Speaker 4: wouldn't take that much computing power Therefore that much meaning

18:19 Speaker 4: in cosmic yet not so.

18:21 Speaker 1: Not completely out of the realm of possibility, like yeah, like.

18:24 Speaker 3: Give it, give it, you know, a thousand years. I mean,

18:27 Speaker 3: he was saying that if there was.

18:28 Speaker 4: A technological civilization, I mean, he didn't give a time frame,

18:30 Speaker 4: but uh, that was able to get to the stage.

18:34 Speaker 4: He estimated that the number of operations you know that

18:37 Speaker 4: we have brains, the amount of memories we have stored,

18:40 Speaker 4: and he said, even a computer the size of the

18:42 Speaker 4: moon would be able to represent all of human history

18:45 Speaker 4: and every single you know, every single interaction that h

18:49 Speaker 4: and memory that has ever gone on. And that's you know,

18:52 Speaker 4: using today's estimates and technology. So but basically, you know,

18:57 Speaker 4: he said, if if a civilization ever get to that point,

19:01 Speaker 4: then they're gonna want to create simulations of the past.

19:05 Speaker 4: And he called those ancestors simulations and so you know,

19:10 Speaker 4: but his point, what he called the what he called

19:12 Speaker 4: the simulation argument, was that if any civilization ever gets there,

19:18 Speaker 4: he said, there's a couple of possibilities.

19:19 Speaker 3: One is they can't do it.

19:21 Speaker 1: And they never get there, maybe before long before then.

19:24 Speaker 2: Yeah.

19:24 Speaker 4: The second is they get there, but they decide not

19:27 Speaker 4: to make any simulations, okay, which I think is little unlikely,

19:29 Speaker 4: So let's just.

19:30 Speaker 3: Group those two together.

19:31 Speaker 4: Okay, there's no similations, there's no such civilization that ever

19:35 Speaker 4: makes such simulations.

19:36 Speaker 3: And then the third possibility he said was that we

19:39 Speaker 3: are most definitely in the simulation.

19:41 Speaker 4: And why he said, because if they can create one simulation,

19:45 Speaker 4: they can create another one just by adding more server power.

19:49 Speaker 4: And inside each of these simulations there could be a

19:52 Speaker 4: billion simulated beings or how many you have on Earth's.

19:56 Speaker 1: Seventy seven billion? Right, right and right, So at that.

19:59 Speaker 3: Point we're just talking more computing power.

20:02 Speaker 1: Right.

20:03 Speaker 3: His argument was.

20:03 Speaker 4: A statistical one, and that's where the terminology the simulation

20:07 Speaker 4: I thought this came from, which is that are you

20:09 Speaker 4: more likely to be in a simulated world or are you.

20:14 Speaker 3: More likely to be in a physical world?

20:16 Speaker 4: He actually said are you more likely to be a

20:17 Speaker 4: simulated mind versus being.

20:19 Speaker 3: A biological mind?

20:20 Speaker 1: Right?

20:20 Speaker 3: But then Elon Musk came around a few years later.

20:22 Speaker 1: And said, the chances that we are in base reality

20:25 Speaker 1: or what zero one in billions.

20:27 Speaker 4: Yeah, the chances that we're not in base reality I

20:30 Speaker 4: either we're in a simulation, would be billions to one,

20:32 Speaker 4: and that he said that in twenty sixteen, which was

20:35 Speaker 4: the same year that I was playing you know this

20:36 Speaker 4: Big what to think about it?

20:39 Speaker 3: So that was the argument.

20:41 Speaker 4: That caught on and this terminology became popular. That said,

20:46 Speaker 4: there's an alternative version of that, which is the matrix version,

20:50 Speaker 4: where in the matrix you actually had Neo and Morpheus, right,

20:54 Speaker 4: they existed outside the video game or outside simulation, and

20:58 Speaker 4: then they had.

20:59 Speaker 1: Characters avatars inside.

21:02 Speaker 4: And so those are the two different flavors that I

21:05 Speaker 4: was talking about, which is more AI n PCs or

21:09 Speaker 4: actual players of the game who exist outside of the simulation.

21:14 Speaker 3: And that's an interesting access and a rabbit hole to.

21:17 Speaker 4: Go down in it because it raises all kinds of

21:19 Speaker 4: issues around free will.

21:21 Speaker 1: Religions, right, the big the big ones, and and that's

21:26 Speaker 1: kind of you know, uh where I want to build

21:29 Speaker 1: on that because honestly, if tomorrow, I mean, we talk

21:33 Speaker 1: about UFO disclosure a lot, but if tomorrow we confirmed,

21:39 Speaker 1: beyond the shadow of a doubt, we are in fact

21:44 Speaker 1: in a simulation that reality as we experience it is

21:48 Speaker 1: in fact simulated, what would it really change. I mean,

21:53 Speaker 1: the table would still be a table, the microphone would

21:57 Speaker 1: still be a microphone. You know, it's more or less

22:01 Speaker 1: the more philosophical implications that I see being a cause

22:06 Speaker 1: for concern people's motivations, their will to live, and what

22:10 Speaker 1: keeps society in check if you will. So, I mean,

22:15 Speaker 1: what does it really change if we if we confirm it.

22:18 Speaker 3: Well, that's an interesting question.

22:20 Speaker 1: The bills are still due tomorrow.

22:22 Speaker 4: Yeah, so we're still in the simulation, right, so right,

22:25 Speaker 4: we have to treat it as if it's real while

22:27 Speaker 4: we're here.

22:29 Speaker 2: Uh.

22:29 Speaker 4: But at the same time, just because it may not

22:33 Speaker 4: be the ultimate reality doesn't mean the experiences that we're

22:37 Speaker 4: having aren't real.

22:38 Speaker 1: And that's what I meant. And this is what I

22:40 Speaker 1: mean because I feel like people are and my sorry

22:43 Speaker 1: about the tangent here, and I don't mean to cut

22:45 Speaker 1: you off, but I feel like people look at this,

22:49 Speaker 1: they look at this the wrong way because they say,

22:51 Speaker 1: if it's a simulation, then we must not mean anything

22:55 Speaker 1: and nothing matters, and nothing matters, right, And I would

22:59 Speaker 1: say that it's the exact opposite. I think that we

23:02 Speaker 1: matter even more. And then it kind of confirms that

23:06 Speaker 1: if it's a simulation, there is a simulator, a ka god,

23:10 Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, and there exists outside

23:14 Speaker 1: of the simulation. So it would confirm a lot of

23:17 Speaker 1: the religious you know, religious philosophy, if you will. So

23:22 Speaker 1: I'm just not I feel like people are looking at

23:24 Speaker 1: it the wrong way.

23:26 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're correct in that, and I think

23:29 Speaker 4: that's why I tend to be one of the few

23:31 Speaker 4: people talking about simulation theory who focuses on this idea

23:35 Speaker 4: of the NPC versus RPG flavors of simulation theory. And

23:41 Speaker 4: I say, it's more of an axis, if you will,

23:43 Speaker 4: because it's a continuum. You can start off with a

23:46 Speaker 4: simular computer simulation that has one hundred percent AI and

23:50 Speaker 4: that's you know, we're watching it run, and it's running

23:52 Speaker 4: a whole civilization, like we might want to stimulate the

23:55 Speaker 4: spread of a virus or you know, economic stock markets.

23:58 Speaker 1: See how it plays out right.

24:01 Speaker 4: At the other end, we're all players of the game,

24:05 Speaker 4: and we all have characters, and we all have quests

24:07 Speaker 4: and achievements, and we're all have certain experiences together. Now,

24:10 Speaker 4: in a video game like say World of Warcraft, you

24:13 Speaker 4: have both.

24:14 Speaker 3: You have both, yes, NBCs and PCs or player characters

24:18 Speaker 3: or avatars.

24:19 Speaker 1: Right.

24:19 Speaker 4: The term avatar itself comes from Sanskrit, and not many

24:22 Speaker 4: people know where it came from.

24:24 Speaker 3: Because really what it originally meant was you.

24:27 Speaker 4: Had a divine entity that squeezes itself into a physical body.

24:33 Speaker 4: So it was an incarnation of a divine entities. And

24:36 Speaker 4: so what happened was that the guys who were building

24:39 Speaker 4: one of the first mmrpgs, although it wasn't a massively

24:44 Speaker 4: multiplayer online role playing game, it was just a multiplayer

24:47 Speaker 4: online role playing game. It was using Commodore sixty four's

24:50 Speaker 4: back in the eighties with the modems and the dim

24:53 Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember that.

24:54 Speaker 3: I do.

24:56 Speaker 4: And it was at Lucasfilm, which is George Lucas, you know,

25:00 Speaker 4: special effects company, after he had built he had really

25:03 Speaker 4: Star Wars, and so they built a game called Habitat

25:05 Speaker 4: and they had these little two D characters on the

25:07 Speaker 4: screen and you would maybe have like five or ten

25:09 Speaker 4: people in a room. But they were looking for a

25:11 Speaker 4: term to describe their character, and he said, it felt

25:14 Speaker 4: like I was taking myself a physical body, squeezing into

25:18 Speaker 4: the telephone lines, you know, the coverenter of sixty four,

25:21 Speaker 4: right into this tiny.

25:22 Speaker 3: Little character on the screen. And so they chose the

25:25 Speaker 3: term avatar.

25:26 Speaker 4: So even that hints at the spiritual elements of this idea,

25:33 Speaker 4: and so that's why I think if you think of

25:35 Speaker 4: it more as a continuum, some people say, well, if

25:37 Speaker 4: I'm in a simulation, then nothing matters, and that's kind

25:40 Speaker 4: of equivalent to kind of nihilistic you know philosophy, like

25:44 Speaker 4: if the number of players is zero, there's also sollipsism,

25:48 Speaker 4: and you know, nothing matters but me, which would mean an.

25:50 Speaker 3: Equals one right. Then on the other end, you know

25:54 Speaker 3: you're up to an equals one hundred percent source players.

25:58 Speaker 4: And so I think, for example, if you and I

26:00 Speaker 4: are interacting with each other in a video game, does

26:03 Speaker 4: that mean we're not really interacting? I mean, we happen

26:08 Speaker 4: to be in the same studio right now. But the

26:09 Speaker 4: other day I was doing a zoom call with somebody

26:11 Speaker 4: about this, and I said, are we actually having a conversation? Well,

26:14 Speaker 4: technically no, I was talking to my computer and the

26:17 Speaker 4: bits were sent to his computer, and his computer was,

26:20 Speaker 4: you know, replaying my words, and then he was talking

26:23 Speaker 4: to his computer, and yet we had a real conversation.

26:25 Speaker 3: So if you were in a video game and you learned.

26:28 Speaker 4: A language, do you still know that language that you

26:31 Speaker 4: learned from interacting with people in the game outside you

26:34 Speaker 4: absolutely do.

26:35 Speaker 1: Right, So in that sense, wow.

26:38 Speaker 4: I think you know, these can be thought of as

26:40 Speaker 4: very real experiences that really do matter. So I think

26:44 Speaker 4: that's a different perspective on this idea. But it can

26:49 Speaker 4: also help us when we're dealing with challenges in life.

26:54 Speaker 3: So for example, we.

26:55 Speaker 4: All have physical challenges, sometimes illnesses, we have financial challenges,

27:00 Speaker 4: relationship challenge, oh yeah, you name it.

27:03 Speaker 3: Life is a series of challenges. And if we view.

27:06 Speaker 4: Life as a series of challenges or quests, I think

27:10 Speaker 4: it can bring a different perspective to our lives and

27:14 Speaker 4: it makes it a little bit easier to deal with.

27:16 Speaker 4: Instead of saying, oh yeah, life sucks and that's it,

27:18 Speaker 4: you know, and life is suffering, you say, okay, well,

27:21 Speaker 4: maybe there's a reason I'm going through this, and I can.

27:23 Speaker 3: Learn something from this experience.

27:25 Speaker 4: And it's one challenge that perhaps my player, that part

27:29 Speaker 4: of me which exists outside the simulation is watching this

27:32 Speaker 4: on a screen right now, kind of I call it

27:34 Speaker 4: the writer's room.

27:35 Speaker 1: That's the writer's a good way.

27:37 Speaker 4: Yeah, you're sitting there watching your your sims, your avatars

27:41 Speaker 4: play out, and you're like, Okay, what challenge do we

27:43 Speaker 4: want to throw at this, at this guy or at

27:46 Speaker 4: this nest, right, what crazy you.

27:48 Speaker 1: Know, drop some COVID on them?

27:51 Speaker 3: Exactly? You got doing it at that at the level

27:54 Speaker 3: of the entire city, right individually?

27:57 Speaker 4: What if we were each doing this individually about our

28:00 Speaker 4: own we're actually signing up for certain quests and certain

28:05 Speaker 4: challenging situations. Because when you think about it, who are

28:08 Speaker 4: the actors that win the Academy Awards. They're the ones

28:11 Speaker 4: that play the roles that go through the most difficulty,

28:14 Speaker 4: that most challenges, right, And doesn't mean that these challenges

28:19 Speaker 4: there's not real suffering. I mean, while you're there, you're

28:21 Speaker 4: absolutely suffering. Just like you know, a guy in a

28:24 Speaker 4: video game can't walk through the wall. It's real from

28:27 Speaker 4: the perspective of the video game character, right, But we

28:30 Speaker 4: can have I think a different perspective outside outside of

28:34 Speaker 4: the simulation.

28:35 Speaker 3: So that's why I think it can matter, but in

28:37 Speaker 3: a positive way, not just the negative one.

28:39 Speaker 1: Okay. So with that being said, then, and I like

28:44 Speaker 1: how you call them quests. It just because it makes

28:47 Speaker 1: everything more like magical, like go into the go into

28:51 Speaker 1: the gas station as a quest, I'm gonna start using

28:54 Speaker 1: that if consciousness. If consciousness is on local as some

29:01 Speaker 1: quantum theorist and mystics suggests, is it possible that our soul,

29:06 Speaker 1: like you had said, could exist outside the simulation and

29:11 Speaker 1: just interfaces what this avatar like you had said. It

29:14 Speaker 1: kind of feels like you already answered that.

29:15 Speaker 4: Actually, well yeah, but I think that's an important distinction

29:20 Speaker 4: in that this idea of the soul could be the

29:23 Speaker 4: player and the body is the avatar, right character. And

29:28 Speaker 4: I think that is a good way to look at it.

29:30 Speaker 4: I mean part of the reason why in this book,

29:34 Speaker 4: in Simulation Hypothesis, I have a whole section dedicated to

29:38 Speaker 4: the world's spiritual traditions. And you know, some people in

29:40 Speaker 4: the science come in there are like, why did he

29:41 Speaker 4: do that? This is a scientific idea or this is

29:44 Speaker 4: a technological idea. Why is he talking about religion? Why

29:47 Speaker 4: is he talking about unexplained phenomenon? And my point is

29:50 Speaker 4: that if you look at all of the world's scriptures,

29:54 Speaker 4: they will use metaphors to try to describe what they read,

29:59 Speaker 4: what they what they saw, right, and the mystics of

30:02 Speaker 4: these religions that started these religions were even just the

30:05 Speaker 4: saints along the way. As I said earlier, I think

30:08 Speaker 4: they have this experience where they peaked outside the simulation. Now,

30:12 Speaker 4: that could be through what's often called theophany, where something

30:18 Speaker 4: comes from outside the physical world, like an angel or

30:22 Speaker 4: some antitique and makes them confront it. In the story

30:27 Speaker 4: of Islam, for example, you have the prophet Muhammad fasting

30:30 Speaker 4: in the mountains in a cave and suddenly the angel

30:32 Speaker 4: Gabriel shows up and grabs them by the head and says, repeat, rebeat, Right,

30:36 Speaker 4: you can't ignore when something like that happens, or through

30:41 Speaker 4: means of self awareness yoga type means sharmonic type means

30:46 Speaker 4: somebody is able to raise their awareness outside of.

30:49 Speaker 3: Their physical body and say, okay, there is more.

30:51 Speaker 4: Now they have to explain that to the people from

30:54 Speaker 4: two thousand years ago, right or five thousand.

30:56 Speaker 1: Years very limited language, limited.

30:59 Speaker 3: Language, So they came back and they tried to use metaphors.

31:02 Speaker 4: That's why I say almost everything in the scriptures should

31:04 Speaker 4: be taken metaphorically. But that doesn't mean it's not real.

31:07 Speaker 4: It just means that they didn't have the right terminology

31:11 Speaker 4: or cultural context to tell what was going on. And

31:14 Speaker 4: this goes back to Plato's cave. So you know the

31:16 Speaker 4: allegory of absolutely so most people know the basic allegory

31:21 Speaker 4: of the cave, which is that you're in a cave

31:22 Speaker 4: and just like the shadows against the wall, that there's

31:25 Speaker 4: a fire by the opening of the caves or a light,

31:28 Speaker 4: and all the people inside the cave see are these

31:31 Speaker 4: shadows on the wall because they happen.

31:32 Speaker 3: To be chained to the other side.

31:34 Speaker 4: One guy gets out, breaks his chains and goes outside.

31:38 Speaker 4: Now many people have heard the algory, but they haven't

31:41 Speaker 4: read the whole thing. And when you read it, the

31:44 Speaker 4: first thing that happens when he goes outside.

31:45 Speaker 3: Is he's blinded. What there's too much light. He's not

31:48 Speaker 3: used to the sun sun. So that's an interesting aspect.

31:52 Speaker 4: When you know, people talk about near death experiences or

31:56 Speaker 4: they talk about these ligious verses, they.

31:57 Speaker 3: Always see the light.

31:58 Speaker 4: But the second part of what happens, or what happens

32:02 Speaker 4: near the end, is this guy that Plato calls the philosopher,

32:05 Speaker 4: let's called him the mystic comes back into the cave

32:08 Speaker 4: and he tries to explain to the people what he saw,

32:11 Speaker 4: and they're like, no, that's not real.

32:13 Speaker 1: Nobody's flying can't be real.

32:15 Speaker 3: And I think that is an experience that often happens.

32:18 Speaker 4: You know, when somebody has this kind of peeking outside

32:22 Speaker 4: of the simulation. And so if you look at the metaphors,

32:25 Speaker 4: one of the metaphors that's used almost verbatim in different scriptures,

32:29 Speaker 4: like in the Bagabat Gita, Yes and nutitions, they say that,

32:34 Speaker 4: you know, incarnating and reincarnating is like putting on and

32:38 Speaker 4: taking off a set of clothes or garments. Okay, So

32:42 Speaker 4: it turns out Rumy, who is an Islamic Sufi mystic,

32:46 Speaker 4: uses the exact same metaphor. He says, the soul clothes

32:49 Speaker 4: itself in the body, just like the body clothes itself

32:52 Speaker 4: in garments or clothing. And so they were trying to

32:55 Speaker 4: explain what it would mean to enter into a body,

33:00 Speaker 4: but they didn't have the right terminology for it right.

33:03 Speaker 4: So I was actually asked to speak at a at

33:06 Speaker 4: an Islamic jurisprudence conference at a university in the UK,

33:10 Speaker 4: and they had like legal scholars from like Cairo and

33:13 Speaker 4: Germany and so like, like.

33:15 Speaker 1: Like serious serious thinkers.

33:17 Speaker 4: Yeah, and sometimes you know, people who study religion aren't

33:20 Speaker 4: necessarily religious. Sometimes they are, but they know about the background.

33:24 Speaker 4: And they even had Ayatola from a rent r. It's

33:26 Speaker 4: an interesting experience. It's not like the guy we see.

33:30 Speaker 1: In the in the propaganda a bunch of priests who

33:34 Speaker 1: are called atomis.

33:35 Speaker 3: But anyway, for me, it was interesting. I was like,

33:37 Speaker 3: why are you inviting me to do this? I don't

33:39 Speaker 3: know anything about Islamic juris primates.

33:41 Speaker 4: They're like, well, your ideas are on simulation theory are

33:44 Speaker 4: quite interesting. And that kind of led me to go

33:46 Speaker 4: down this rabbit hole even deeper of looking at different scriptures.

33:49 Speaker 3: And they were debating, just like we do here in

33:51 Speaker 3: the US. You know, when can you do abortion? When

33:54 Speaker 3: does the when does the soul enter the fetus? Is

33:57 Speaker 3: it a conception?

33:59 Speaker 1: I think that's a possible question to answer.

34:01 Speaker 3: Twenty days, Yeah, and it's a very difficult question to answer.

34:03 Speaker 4: And I said, well, I have a different perspective to

34:06 Speaker 4: give you on that, which is think of that when

34:09 Speaker 4: the soul enters the body is like putting on a

34:12 Speaker 4: VR headset, or it's when you forget about who you

34:17 Speaker 4: were before. So it's that process of attaching or a

34:19 Speaker 4: brain computer.

34:20 Speaker 1: Interface like in the matrix right right.

34:22 Speaker 4: And it's not that I was trying to answer the

34:24 Speaker 4: questions per se. I was trying to give them a

34:25 Speaker 4: different way to think about it. That's the point at

34:28 Speaker 4: which you go through what's called the veil of forget focus, right,

34:32 Speaker 4: you forget and then you become incarnated here.

34:35 Speaker 3: But again, these are all just metaphors, and so.

34:37 Speaker 4: They didn't have the metaphors of technology or modern technology.

34:42 Speaker 1: Right, They didn't have the context or lens of technology,

34:46 Speaker 1: and therefore limiting the way that they could speak about

34:51 Speaker 1: these things. So flying craft become fire breathing dragons, right.

34:55 Speaker 1: And angels and angels right by definition are non human intelligence.

35:00 Speaker 3: Right.

35:01 Speaker 4: But some of these angels and gods if you look

35:05 Speaker 4: at sort of the traditions, like the Hindi traditions, and

35:08 Speaker 4: many of the angels are actually more like functions than

35:12 Speaker 4: actual people. So for example, I mean there's like the

35:15 Speaker 4: arch angels, who may have personality, but in certain traditions

35:19 Speaker 4: that angels don't have free will. They have to do

35:22 Speaker 4: they have to rem right on a mission, which means

35:26 Speaker 4: what are they? You know, what are are they more

35:28 Speaker 4: like NPCs? Because think of the recording angel. So there's

35:31 Speaker 4: something called a recording angel, and it exists in Christianity, Judaism,

35:36 Speaker 4: and Islam, and in Christianity. In the book I have

35:39 Speaker 4: a picture from like Washington, d C. Of an angel

35:42 Speaker 4: writing down things. It's it's a recording angel. He's writing

35:44 Speaker 4: down in the book of life. He's writing down the

35:47 Speaker 4: actual like people that get into heaven right for save Peter.

35:50 Speaker 4: But beyond that, there's actually recording of the deeds that

35:54 Speaker 4: you did, and so they're making a judgment on who

35:57 Speaker 4: gets into heaven based on these deeds.

36:00 Speaker 3: Went on the religious rabbit hole here a little.

36:01 Speaker 1: Bit right right right.

36:03 Speaker 4: Islam, they're very they're much more specific about this.

36:05 Speaker 3: They say, there's two recording angels.

36:08 Speaker 4: They have names that they're called the Kramen Kabin, and

36:10 Speaker 4: one writes down all your good deeds and one writes

36:13 Speaker 4: down all your bad deeds.

36:14 Speaker 3: And then when you die, you have to read your

36:16 Speaker 3: book and that's what you know. Your own self will

36:20 Speaker 3: be the judge, and.

36:21 Speaker 4: That's what decides what happens next, whether you get into

36:23 Speaker 4: heaven or not. So I tell people, look, this is

36:26 Speaker 4: a metaphor. These angels doesn't mean that we have, you know,

36:30 Speaker 4: two angels.

36:31 Speaker 3: Each of us.

36:31 Speaker 4: There's fourteen billion angels who are like real people sitting

36:35 Speaker 4: around and have nothing better to do, but with the

36:37 Speaker 4: feather pen to write down you.

36:39 Speaker 3: Know Tyler Studios. Yeah, right, that's a metaphor.

36:44 Speaker 4: They're trying to describe a function and they end up

36:48 Speaker 4: describing it using terminology that people would understand.

36:51 Speaker 3: Like you mentioned the UFO case.

36:53 Speaker 4: In this case, many of the angels and even the

36:55 Speaker 4: minor gods in like say, for example, in Hinduism, there's

37:00 Speaker 4: Chitta and who's chit thro He is the accountant, the

37:04 Speaker 4: record keeper, and what does he do.

37:06 Speaker 3: He sits next to Yama, the god of death.

37:09 Speaker 4: Okay, and why so that Yama doesn't make a mistake

37:12 Speaker 4: about whether you go into a heavenly realm or a

37:14 Speaker 4: hellish realm next and so he were recording everything. They

37:18 Speaker 4: call him the account Now that ken, that's a metaphor.

37:21 Speaker 4: There's not one guy sitting there with one book. So

37:23 Speaker 4: what is it a metaphor of? I would say it's

37:27 Speaker 4: a metaphor of a technological process.

37:30 Speaker 3: And if you talk to people who.

37:31 Speaker 1: Had near death experiences, this is almost the.

37:35 Speaker 3: Life review.

37:37 Speaker 4: Has been described by people as a holographic, panoramic replay

37:43 Speaker 4: of every single event in their life, but from the

37:46 Speaker 4: point of view of the other person.

37:48 Speaker 1: And this is that's the craziest thing to me, because

37:51 Speaker 1: if that's a you know, if that's what happens, right,

37:54 Speaker 1: if this imagine that trick, you get to the after life, right,

38:00 Speaker 1: Hitler gets to the afterlife, and now he's experiencing everything,

38:07 Speaker 1: every horrible deed done in his name from the other perspectives.

38:13 Speaker 1: So all you're really doing is hurting yourself.

38:17 Speaker 4: Right exactly, And you get to experience not just what

38:20 Speaker 4: you did to this person, but then the ripple offense,

38:22 Speaker 4: and like, how does that so?

38:24 Speaker 3: For example, I mentioned.

38:25 Speaker 4: A guy often named Danian Brinkley because he wrote a

38:28 Speaker 4: book called Saved by the Light who Struck by Lightning

38:30 Speaker 4: back in the seventies, and there was the best selling

38:32 Speaker 4: book in the nineties that's when it was written.

38:34 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, and you know that wasn't Hitler, guy who

38:37 Speaker 1: got hit twice, right, he did get.

38:38 Speaker 3: He did get.

38:39 Speaker 1: That was him.

38:40 Speaker 3: He did get. He had several near death experiences.

38:42 Speaker 4: Okay, he got hit by lightning twice, but he definitely

38:45 Speaker 4: ended up with multiple NDEs.

38:48 Speaker 1: You know, look, end of that. What's his name?

38:50 Speaker 3: His name is Danian Brinkley, the interesting.

38:53 Speaker 1: Guy if you if you want to have mine to

38:54 Speaker 1: show some Yeah, but.

38:56 Speaker 4: He used to be in the military and he told me,

38:59 Speaker 4: you know that he would shoot people.

39:01 Speaker 3: And he had to experience what it was like to

39:02 Speaker 3: be shot by him.

39:03 Speaker 1: Oh my god.

39:05 Speaker 4: There's what's called the ripple effect, which is once that

39:07 Speaker 4: person has died, you have to see what happened.

39:10 Speaker 1: To like that guy's wife kids. Yeah.

39:13 Speaker 4: So now since you weren't there, how would you know

39:16 Speaker 4: what's happening.

39:17 Speaker 3: And so this is another one of those.

39:19 Speaker 4: This was sparked by one another one of those virtual

39:21 Speaker 4: reality experiences I talked about back then.

39:24 Speaker 3: Back in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, I was involved with the.

39:28 Speaker 4: Startup that had a VR experience where you could replay

39:32 Speaker 4: a game that was not in view. So you could

39:34 Speaker 4: take a game like League of Legends or Counterstrike Global Offensive.

39:37 Speaker 4: And by the way, you can watch replays of video

39:39 Speaker 4: game sessions on YouTube.

39:40 Speaker 3: It's like the most popular YouTube gun.

39:42 Speaker 1: It's crazy to me. People just sit there and just

39:44 Speaker 1: watch other people play video game. It's like crazy.

39:47 Speaker 3: You could replay it from any XYZ court.

39:50 Speaker 4: So we could literally put on a headset and I

39:52 Speaker 4: could see what it was like to have shot myself

39:54 Speaker 4: if I was in a first person shooter.

39:56 Speaker 3: Now we can't tell you how the person felt we can't.

39:59 Speaker 1: You know, our video games don't do that now yet

40:01 Speaker 1: not yet.

40:02 Speaker 4: But when I began to think about the life reviews,

40:05 Speaker 4: I said, okay, as a computer scientists and engineer, how

40:08 Speaker 4: how would this work?

40:09 Speaker 3: It has to be reported somewhere m.

40:11 Speaker 4: Hmm, somewhere in the cloud in a and then it

40:15 Speaker 4: has to be replayed for you in a way that

40:17 Speaker 4: you can replay what's going on.

40:18 Speaker 3: And so for me there was a it was a

40:21 Speaker 3: realization that.

40:22 Speaker 4: The Scroll of Deeds the Book of life to the accountant,

40:27 Speaker 4: and there's a Buddhist version to where they have almost

40:29 Speaker 4: a similar.

40:29 Speaker 3: Type of thing.

40:31 Speaker 1: Uh and the egypt and Egyptian probably right, Well, weigh

40:38 Speaker 1: your soul on the the feather and you know is

40:42 Speaker 1: it Yeah, they weigh your soul and if it it's

40:46 Speaker 1: but it's very similar. That's what it was reminding me

40:49 Speaker 1: of the whole time.

40:50 Speaker 3: And that's a metaphor.

40:51 Speaker 4: Right.

40:51 Speaker 3: They don't mean you literally are gonna step.

40:53 Speaker 1: On a scale, right, right, is we're going to look

40:55 Speaker 1: at some of what.

40:56 Speaker 3: You have done, and you play it in some cafets.

40:58 Speaker 4: So the life review is a new version and a

41:03 Speaker 4: virtual reality replay is our latest way to describe it.

41:06 Speaker 3: Of things that mystics have been.

41:08 Speaker 4: Telling us since the beginning of Traue that happens after

41:11 Speaker 4: we die.

41:12 Speaker 3: So this gets you know, the reason I went down

41:14 Speaker 3: this rabbit hole. If you had asked me about the.

41:15 Speaker 4: Soul and the body, well that kind of it's a

41:18 Speaker 4: perfect metaphor, and one even that a lot of religious people,

41:23 Speaker 4: you know, haven't fully understood that what they're being told

41:28 Speaker 4: are metaphors. That there must be a mechanism for it, right,

41:31 Speaker 4: and that that mechanism could be something like a virtual

41:35 Speaker 4: reality or a video game.

41:37 Speaker 1: So I likened it too. You know how they ask,

41:43 Speaker 1: you know, if a tree falls in the woods and

41:46 Speaker 1: no one's around to hear, it doesn't make a noise. Well,

41:50 Speaker 1: it feels like to me, what you're arguing is that

41:53 Speaker 1: the tree doesn't even exist unless there's a conscious observer.

41:56 Speaker 4: Well yeah, so this is where, you know, my research

41:59 Speaker 4: into one of really got me thinking about the nature

42:04 Speaker 4: of physical reality.

42:06 Speaker 3: And there's a couple of.

42:07 Speaker 4: Big areas there. One is the observer effect. Second is

42:11 Speaker 4: this idea of information. So what you're talking about is

42:14 Speaker 4: the observer effect in quantum mechanics, which says that things

42:18 Speaker 4: exist in.

42:19 Speaker 1: Superposition like the double slid experiment.

42:23 Speaker 3: Is it going to go to this slit? Or is

42:24 Speaker 3: it going to go to this slip? And turns out

42:27 Speaker 3: you don't know.

42:28 Speaker 1: Until you watch, until you measure it, yes, to measure it.

42:31 Speaker 4: Or until somebody records it, or you you read that recording,

42:35 Speaker 4: or you actually look at it.

42:37 Speaker 3: And so the point is they say that what happens.

42:40 Speaker 4: Is that the electron or the photon or the atom,

42:44 Speaker 4: I mean, because they've gotten to the point where they say,

42:47 Speaker 4: you know, even certain atoms can be in superposition.

42:50 Speaker 3: So they're getting bigger and bigger.

42:51 Speaker 4: Right are they're in a state of superposition, which means

42:56 Speaker 4: they're going through both sleds until the observations where the

43:00 Speaker 4: measurement happens.

43:01 Speaker 3: And so that's weird.

43:03 Speaker 1: Okay, it's so weird.

43:04 Speaker 3: It's not how we're used to thinking of it, right,

43:07 Speaker 3: I mean.

43:08 Speaker 4: Neil's Bore was one of the fathers of the Copenhagen interpretation,

43:12 Speaker 4: which is where this idea of the observer the collapse

43:14 Speaker 4: of the probability wave. So everything exists as a probability

43:17 Speaker 4: wave and until you know it collapses to one single probability, right,

43:22 Speaker 4: and that becomes the reality.

43:24 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And so.

43:26 Speaker 4: He said, if you are not shocked by the point

43:29 Speaker 4: of theory, then you have not understood it because why

43:32 Speaker 4: why would that happen? And it turns out, you know,

43:36 Speaker 4: the way we make video games is exactly that. I mean,

43:40 Speaker 4: if you go back to the eighties and the Apple

43:42 Speaker 4: Tubes when when when I started playing you know, computer

43:45 Speaker 4: based video games.

43:46 Speaker 3: But then we have Tetris on the PCs and stuff.

43:50 Speaker 4: There was no way you could render all these pixels

43:52 Speaker 4: of a world like world or warcraft.

43:54 Speaker 3: You just couldn't be done.

43:56 Speaker 4: One we didn't have enough computing power, but two we

43:58 Speaker 4: also didn't have the algorithms too to make all this work.

44:00 Speaker 1: To run it, yeah, to keep it run.

44:02 Speaker 3: But one of the.

44:03 Speaker 4: Key things that came about was that the ability to

44:06 Speaker 4: optimize so that with three D models, you only render

44:10 Speaker 4: that which is observedly by your character right inside the game.

44:14 Speaker 4: So like if I'm sitting there playing the game in

44:15 Speaker 4: my avatars here, I only see what's around them.

44:18 Speaker 3: I don't have to see what's behind the boxes.

44:20 Speaker 1: I don't have to see what's because it's not necessary

44:23 Speaker 1: right at this moment.

44:24 Speaker 3: It might be later.

44:25 Speaker 4: Now, if there's multiple players, then you have to be

44:27 Speaker 4: sure to have enough for everybody. So there's something called

44:30 Speaker 4: caching computer science. We cash the information so that it

44:33 Speaker 4: like the next room is available, but maybe five rooms

44:37 Speaker 4: beyond it is not.

44:37 Speaker 3: Available until it's needed.

44:39 Speaker 4: Okay, So in computer science everything is about optimization rights.

44:43 Speaker 3: Physicists love big.

44:45 Speaker 4: Numbers, they love infinity, or or they try to do

44:48 Speaker 4: calculations and say, you can't.

44:50 Speaker 3: We can't have World of Warcraft.

44:51 Speaker 4: Because there's two of depictions, right, That's what they would

44:54 Speaker 4: probably say. Physinicists who don't, who aren't fans of iumulation

44:57 Speaker 4: of boxes, would literally say you can out run the

45:00 Speaker 4: World of Warcraft or a game called No Man's Sky

45:03 Speaker 4: because you know I No Man's Sky has something like

45:05 Speaker 4: eighteen Quintilian worlds.

45:08 Speaker 1: Blew me away when someone hit me with that fact,

45:11 Speaker 1: and that each one of those like you, and this

45:15 Speaker 1: brings up a good point is they're there. Our computing

45:20 Speaker 1: power has come so far that we can now do.

45:23 Speaker 3: That where to do that, but we don't have to

45:25 Speaker 3: render it all exactly. We have nothing at the optimization.

45:28 Speaker 4: So computer science has always been about ways to optimize,

45:32 Speaker 4: like using different algorithms and figuring out what's nek is.

45:35 Speaker 4: There's something called lazy evaluation, and what that means is,

45:39 Speaker 4: you know, if you're doing an operation, Let's say you

45:41 Speaker 4: say X equals some complicated equation, okay, and then you

45:44 Speaker 4: never use x again in the program. It says, well,

45:47 Speaker 4: we don't need to do all that about an issue yet.

45:50 Speaker 4: But if down the line you need to say X

45:52 Speaker 4: plus y, well you need to know what the value

45:54 Speaker 4: of exits, right, so you evaluate x as necessary and

45:58 Speaker 4: that saves computing power.

46:00 Speaker 3: Uh, And that how you know computer software in general.

46:05 Speaker 4: It turns out, yes, you can get better hardware, but

46:08 Speaker 4: the real way to improve performance is you optimize the

46:10 Speaker 4: algorithm so it only does what needs to be done

46:13 Speaker 4: and it doesn't.

46:13 Speaker 3: Keep doing things that don't need to be done.

46:15 Speaker 1: Right.

46:16 Speaker 4: And so for me, that was a big link between

46:18 Speaker 4: quantum mechanics UH and this idea of simulation theory, because

46:22 Speaker 4: quantum mechanics and the observer effect or what's called quantum

46:25 Speaker 4: insermanacy makes absolutely no sense.

46:27 Speaker 3: If this is just a.

46:28 Speaker 4: Physical universe with one timeline going from the past in

46:31 Speaker 4: the future, everything is solid, why would you do that.

46:34 Speaker 3: There's absolutely no reason to do that.

46:37 Speaker 1: You spot on, spot spot on, And that's exactly it's

46:43 Speaker 1: there's no reason and what do you think that the

46:47 Speaker 1: strongest pieces of scientific or philosophy philosophical evidence is that

46:55 Speaker 1: suggests that we meet we may actually in fact be

46:58 Speaker 1: in a simulation.

46:59 Speaker 4: So you know, that was one which is I call

47:02 Speaker 4: the observer effect being.

47:03 Speaker 3: An optimization technique.

47:05 Speaker 4: Another aspect of science is this idea that the world

47:11 Speaker 4: is actually built off of information. So there was a

47:15 Speaker 4: scientist named John Wheeler.

47:17 Speaker 3: Yes, it's just at Princeton.

47:18 Speaker 4: His office was right across from Einstein. He's one of

47:21 Speaker 4: my favorite physicistems because he's done so many interesting things

47:26 Speaker 4: and he had many interesting don experiments.

47:27 Speaker 3: But towards the end of his life he came up

47:30 Speaker 3: with this phrase. And the phrase was it from bit

47:34 Speaker 3: bit Yes, right.

47:36 Speaker 4: And so what he was trying to say was that

47:37 Speaker 4: anything that's an it, like this microphone is a physical thing.

47:41 Speaker 1: You know, this bottle of water is a physical But

47:44 Speaker 1: if you look into.

47:45 Speaker 4: That bottle of water, first of all, the bottle, most

47:48 Speaker 4: of it is empty space.

47:49 Speaker 1: Right.

47:50 Speaker 4: Atoms are ninety nine percent empty space. I mean between

47:54 Speaker 4: molecules and atoms is mostly empty space. And he might

47:57 Speaker 4: go inside the atom, Well, electrons is really not drawing cloud,

48:00 Speaker 4: but it's mostly just empty space, and then you go

48:02 Speaker 4: to the nucleus.

48:03 Speaker 3: And he said that when when you look for this

48:05 Speaker 3: thing called a particle.

48:06 Speaker 4: Right, our idea of solidity is built on this idea

48:09 Speaker 4: of solid particles, right, right, there is something solid at

48:12 Speaker 4: the bottom.

48:12 Speaker 3: Of all that.

48:13 Speaker 4: Right, And he said, when you keep going down, the

48:15 Speaker 4: only thing that distinguishes one particle from another is the

48:19 Speaker 4: answer to a series of yes no questions.

48:22 Speaker 3: And what is a yes no question?

48:24 Speaker 5: It's a bit, right, So he said anything that's actually

48:30 Speaker 5: a physical object and it is actually built off of information.

48:35 Speaker 1: Bit.

48:36 Speaker 4: Now that was a controversial idea, right, but over time

48:43 Speaker 4: information theory like there's no there's an old saying in

48:45 Speaker 4: a quote in the Silicon Valley from a guy named

48:48 Speaker 4: market recent venture capitalist, but he was a spinner of Netscape,

48:51 Speaker 4: so back in the day.

48:52 Speaker 1: See him on a couple of times.

48:56 Speaker 3: So he said software is eating the world.

48:57 Speaker 4: This is back in the two thousands, and I like

49:00 Speaker 4: to say information science is eating all the other sciences

49:03 Speaker 4: because physics.

49:05 Speaker 3: There's a whole branch of physics called digital physics.

49:07 Speaker 4: And just like we would look at the conservation of

49:09 Speaker 4: momentum and the conservation of energy, now there are ways

49:13 Speaker 4: of looking at physics that are all about conservation of information,

49:16 Speaker 4: and they say how much information is stored on the

49:18 Speaker 4: surface of a black hole for example? All of these types,

49:22 Speaker 4: can information ever be destroyed?

49:25 Speaker 3: And if it is, what does that mean?

49:27 Speaker 4: So they're starting to look at an information based reality.

49:32 Speaker 3: And just last year I was in the UK.

49:34 Speaker 4: I usually spend my summers here in Boston, but last

49:38 Speaker 4: year I went to the UK to the to the

49:39 Speaker 4: other Cambridge the original came original as they can't reminding

49:43 Speaker 4: me that this is the original, like they would say.

49:46 Speaker 3: Cambridge and for a second I would think, oh they

49:47 Speaker 3: need by the Charles River.

49:49 Speaker 4: Yeah, the river cam and it's Cambridge that was the

49:53 Speaker 4: original one. But I met a Nobel Prize winning physicist

49:59 Speaker 4: there and he said that that part of I was

50:02 Speaker 4: talking about the simulation ipothsis and I said, well, there's

50:04 Speaker 4: three different there's at least three different assertions that we're

50:08 Speaker 4: making here. One is the world is information, the second

50:10 Speaker 4: is the information gets rendered for us, and the third

50:13 Speaker 4: is that this is all some kind of helps right,

50:14 Speaker 4: And he said, well, the first one is not controversial anymore,

50:18 Speaker 4: Like most physicists would say, yeah, the world probably.

50:20 Speaker 3: Consists of information, correct?

50:22 Speaker 4: I think which we don't know is how does that

50:24 Speaker 4: information get rendered in a way that is perceived as real.

50:28 Speaker 1: Biolence, you know, right, But so I.

50:30 Speaker 4: Think this idea that the world is information and that

50:33 Speaker 4: maybe we're going through computational processes. So the way that

50:38 Speaker 4: the way that No Man's Sky has eighteen Quintilian worlds

50:41 Speaker 4: is they're procedurally generated. So they're generated using algorithms. So

50:45 Speaker 4: all of the different flora and fauna, you know, the leaves,

50:49 Speaker 4: they're generated using let's say fractal algorithms.

50:52 Speaker 3: Or whatever type of okay they're using.

50:55 Speaker 4: And today we can do that with very you know,

50:58 Speaker 4: small lines of code. I saw a guy just recently

51:02 Speaker 4: on Twitter for example, and people can follow me at

51:05 Speaker 4: Riz Danford on x where he was shared like just

51:09 Speaker 4: like it was like a few lines of code, but

51:11 Speaker 4: it was an image of what was water that was

51:14 Speaker 4: undulating with mountains, and that's all it took mathematically to generate.

51:19 Speaker 3: And there is evidence that.

51:21 Speaker 4: A lot of what we think is physical there are

51:23 Speaker 4: these algorithms that they're processing information.

51:26 Speaker 1: I want to bring something up there is there's largely

51:32 Speaker 1: been I know we talked it's kind of sensitive, I suppose,

51:38 Speaker 1: but I've had many experiences with DMT, and Gallimore wants

51:46 Speaker 1: to you know, is doing this study where they're putting

51:50 Speaker 1: people into the d MT realm long term. I'm trying

51:55 Speaker 1: to map that world out, the DMT world that you

51:59 Speaker 1: get it brought to or whatever. Or when you do

52:04 Speaker 1: intake d MT, there's another person, I forget the name,

52:10 Speaker 1: but they're doing the lasers, thank you, and they're seeing

52:16 Speaker 1: like what looks like mathematical equations in the lasers. Now,

52:20 Speaker 1: of course it could be the trick of the eye,

52:23 Speaker 1: like lasers do look weird and then you're on a

52:26 Speaker 1: haucinergic drug. But d MT has often been described as

52:30 Speaker 1: as almost like a key to the universe, like and

52:36 Speaker 1: I know you haven't probably done it, but I have.

52:39 Speaker 1: It's it brings you from one world to another. It's unreal.

52:46 Speaker 1: It feels more real there than when you come back here.

52:49 Speaker 4: Which is interesting because that's exactly what near death experiencers

52:52 Speaker 4: tell us, right that it felt more real where they

52:55 Speaker 4: were than here.

52:56 Speaker 3: Now.

52:57 Speaker 4: I haven't done DMT myself, but I've talked to a

52:59 Speaker 4: lot of people that have, UH and you know, many

53:03 Speaker 4: of them have told me. Actually, you know, when I

53:05 Speaker 4: started writing about simulation theory. Even back in twenty nineteen,

53:09 Speaker 4: first first time somebody told me this was was a

53:12 Speaker 4: guy named Sean Stone, who's Oliver Stone's son, and we

53:15 Speaker 4: were in Los Angeles having lunch with a group and

53:18 Speaker 4: he said, oh, yeah, I know, it's a simulation. I said, oh,

53:21 Speaker 4: how do you know for sure? Like even I wrote

53:23 Speaker 4: a book about it, I'm not even short one hundred percent,

53:25 Speaker 4: because well, because I see, I saw all these gridlines

53:27 Speaker 4: when I was on DMT, and those gridlines are like

53:30 Speaker 4: the basics of this this physical reality. And then I

53:33 Speaker 4: started to hear that again and again from many different

53:36 Speaker 4: people over time, that.

53:38 Speaker 3: They see sort of the war.

53:41 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then you know, Danny Gohler said, you know,

53:43 Speaker 4: they take a diffraction laser and on DMT people are

53:48 Speaker 4: seeing what looks like little characters.

53:50 Speaker 3: They described them as kata khana type characters.

53:53 Speaker 4: But exactly there may be a level of interpretation in that,

53:55 Speaker 4: because that's what in the matrix.

53:57 Speaker 3: The characters were kata kana.

53:58 Speaker 4: But he said, well, they weren't really got to go,

54:00 Speaker 4: and they were just these small characters moving so fast,

54:04 Speaker 4: and you see them in the walls.

54:06 Speaker 3: Which is interesting.

54:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you would literally see it.

54:09 Speaker 4: In the walls, and it was moving too fast to

54:11 Speaker 4: actually read it or figure out what the exact symbols were.

54:14 Speaker 3: But he had enough people that.

54:16 Speaker 4: He tried this with under DMT, that enough of them

54:19 Speaker 4: saw the same thing that at least we can conclude

54:22 Speaker 4: there's something there. Now. Is it exactly what they described,

54:25 Speaker 4: because once again they're describing it to us, you know,

54:29 Speaker 4: in language that we'd have to understand.

54:31 Speaker 1: Right again, going back to this idea that we actually

54:34 Speaker 1: may not have the framework to explain what we're seeing

54:38 Speaker 1: in because I can't tell you there there were I'm colorblind.

54:43 Speaker 1: I was seeing color or one of the first times

54:46 Speaker 1: on DMT color that I'd never seen ever, And it

54:52 Speaker 1: was like I was surrounded by the universe, but it

54:55 Speaker 1: was I was walking along this hallway and at the

54:59 Speaker 1: end into this hall that was surrounded by the universe,

55:04 Speaker 1: or like a glossier version of the universe, but all

55:07 Speaker 1: these beautiful purples and blues, and it just like the

55:12 Speaker 1: stars around us. It looked like I was wrapped in

55:16 Speaker 1: that and walking through this hallway. And then there's this

55:19 Speaker 1: being And when the being sees me, no words are spoken,

55:24 Speaker 1: but I know that it's thinking, why are you here,

55:27 Speaker 1: you're not supposed to be here yet, and it's this

55:30 Speaker 1: very uncomfortable feeling and I'm boom snapped back into my

55:33 Speaker 1: body and I was just like, what the f? What

55:37 Speaker 1: the fuck just happened? Right?

55:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I've heard those types of experiences from people.

55:42 Speaker 1: But so, like, did I log out of the video game?

55:46 Speaker 3: I think you.

55:46 Speaker 4: Logged into some version of it where you log out

55:49 Speaker 4: of this particular version. It's a good for example, in

55:53 Speaker 4: the matrix, they have this loading area. Do you remember

55:57 Speaker 4: like this white area where they had all the guns

56:00 Speaker 4: come in?

56:00 Speaker 1: Uh?

56:01 Speaker 3: Like really, fact, there's a great clip if you can

56:03 Speaker 3: include it, it's worth including.

56:05 Speaker 4: Where you know, they say we need some guns and

56:07 Speaker 4: then you see these racks and racks of guns. That

56:10 Speaker 4: area was sort of the loading area, if you will,

56:12 Speaker 4: or the lobby, uh in modern video games. And then

56:16 Speaker 4: they were able to take some of that with them

56:18 Speaker 4: into the actual matrix, right what we would call, you know,

56:22 Speaker 4: the representation of the physical world.

56:24 Speaker 3: Right.

56:25 Speaker 4: So, but at the same time coming back to we'll

56:28 Speaker 4: come back to the beings in a minute. But in

56:30 Speaker 4: video games, I remember when we had eight bit video games.

56:35 Speaker 3: I mentioned this earlier, and then every now and then

56:38 Speaker 3: there would.

56:38 Speaker 4: Be a sixteen bit computer, right, and they would say,

56:40 Speaker 4: oh my god, I can have millions of colors now

56:44 Speaker 4: because it make big computer, you can only have, you know,

56:46 Speaker 4: up to so many call you have what's called a

56:48 Speaker 4: palette of RGV value two hundred and fifty six of them. Uh.

56:52 Speaker 3: And within the RGB you have values fifty.

56:55 Speaker 1: Six if it's yeah, yeah, of.

56:57 Speaker 3: Information with eight bits.

57:00 Speaker 4: But the idea was that if you were in an

57:03 Speaker 4: eighth the game, you wouldn't necessarily be able to see

57:06 Speaker 4: all these colors, right, But people who've had near death

57:09 Speaker 4: experiences also come back and say there were colors and

57:12 Speaker 4: sounds that we have never seen on Earth. I can't

57:14 Speaker 4: even describe these hues. So that's interesting to me that

57:18 Speaker 4: you're saying it.

57:18 Speaker 3: They're very similar.

57:20 Speaker 1: And I brizz I kid you not. I am one

57:23 Speaker 1: of the most skeptical of like of the people in

57:27 Speaker 1: the UFO quote unquote UFO community, I'm one of the

57:31 Speaker 1: more skeptical. I'll hear anyone out whether I think it's bullshit,

57:35 Speaker 1: that's not for me to decide. I'm a facilitator of

57:37 Speaker 1: stories and and and you know, information like this like

57:41 Speaker 1: we're talking about, so I don't. I don't make that decision,

57:45 Speaker 1: and I might make it a real time, but I don't.

57:47 Speaker 1: I don't say it like do I think doctor Grier

57:49 Speaker 1: is full of bullshit? Yeah, of course I do. But

57:53 Speaker 1: I also think there's some there's some information in there,

57:57 Speaker 1: and you have to hear everyone out. And it kind

57:59 Speaker 1: of brings me back to this religious thing because I

58:01 Speaker 1: feel like a lot of scientists they threw the baby

58:04 Speaker 1: out with the bathwater, and in reality we should probably

58:08 Speaker 1: step back and look at all religion and take it

58:13 Speaker 1: not at face value, but hear it all out, look

58:17 Speaker 1: for similarities. I'm thinking we can all think, or we

58:20 Speaker 1: can all say, there was probably a flood, right because

58:24 Speaker 1: all these civilizations talk about it all around the world exactly,

58:32 Speaker 1: So you know, it just starts begging the question, you know,

58:39 Speaker 1: did our ancestors or did did ancient civilizations we have

58:44 Speaker 1: a lot of distraction around us. Were they keen to

58:49 Speaker 1: did they did some sort of ability of ours atrophy

58:54 Speaker 1: over time that now we can't see what they were

58:59 Speaker 1: seeing then and what they were trying to describe to

59:01 Speaker 1: us in the literature, And what makes scientists these days

59:06 Speaker 1: throw everything out because it all sounds like it's magic

59:09 Speaker 1: and fairies.

59:10 Speaker 4: Right, And I think that, you know, for me, that's

59:12 Speaker 4: one of the reasons why I wrote this book, why

59:14 Speaker 4: I dedicated so much time to the different spiritual traditions.

59:20 Speaker 4: It's because we should take it seriously but not literally.

59:24 Speaker 4: And what happens is a scientists try to take it

59:26 Speaker 4: literally and then they dismiss it because obviously, you know, literally,

59:31 Speaker 4: there isn't a little angel on your shoulder, right that

59:34 Speaker 4: we can test or find out about.

59:37 Speaker 3: And that's part of my problem.

59:40 Speaker 4: With Mackla science is it started to ignore these experiences

59:43 Speaker 4: which people have but which may or may not be

59:46 Speaker 4: reproducible on demand.

59:49 Speaker 3: And it's almost as if you have a thousand people.

59:52 Speaker 4: That went to China, and you know, the scientists are saying,

59:55 Speaker 4: there's no such place as China, and so, well, here's

59:57 Speaker 4: a thousand people.

59:58 Speaker 3: That went to China.

59:59 Speaker 4: We can at least include there is some place kind

1:00:02 Speaker 4: of like that called China. Now, they may have different accounts.

1:00:05 Speaker 4: Some of them may have gone to the south where

1:00:07 Speaker 4: it's warm, you know, and there's beaches, and some may

1:00:09 Speaker 4: have gone to the mountains where it's cold, and some

1:00:11 Speaker 4: may have gone to.

1:00:12 Speaker 3: The desert in China.

1:00:13 Speaker 4: But there are enough similarities in these travel accounts, if

1:00:17 Speaker 4: you will, that we can make some assertions. And and

1:00:21 Speaker 4: that's why I think the simulation hypothesis is a way

1:00:25 Speaker 4: to bridge the gap because it is a techno scientific idea.

1:00:29 Speaker 3: It's a techno scientific metaphor, so is the book.

1:00:32 Speaker 4: A book is a techno scientific metaphor close or technology metaphors.

1:00:37 Speaker 3: The wheel of some Sara is a metaphor. It doesn't

1:00:39 Speaker 3: mean there's literally a wheel there.

1:00:41 Speaker 4: It's a technological metaphor so that people can understand, Wow,

1:00:45 Speaker 4: you know this idea that I love around and round,

1:00:48 Speaker 4: but so that with I can talk to scientists at

1:00:51 Speaker 4: MIT or Harvard or Stanford about the simulation of hypothsis.

1:00:56 Speaker 4: Now they may not agree with all of it, but

1:00:57 Speaker 4: at least we can talk about we can have it,

1:00:59 Speaker 4: we can have a conversation about it.

1:01:01 Speaker 1: And that's where the most and I feel like we're

1:01:04 Speaker 1: losing that right now is if we don't agree, then

1:01:07 Speaker 1: I I'm your enemy. Like that's how the world is

1:01:11 Speaker 1: being framed right now. And it really upsets me because

1:01:15 Speaker 1: we're not supposed to agree on everything. We're supposed to

1:01:17 Speaker 1: have these and then you know, it does bring this

1:01:19 Speaker 1: idea into my play if it is simulated. You know,

1:01:23 Speaker 1: we have the best writers right now, the writers room.

1:01:26 Speaker 1: They they they are owed, they are owed an award

1:01:30 Speaker 1: because the the if you look at the world right now,

1:01:34 Speaker 1: I mean, it's the it's a huge joke, right, It's

1:01:37 Speaker 1: a it's a cosmic joke. You got you know, a

1:01:41 Speaker 1: reality TV stars president. You know, it's just it's it's

1:01:46 Speaker 1: blows me away. It blows me away. Yeah, they they've

1:01:49 Speaker 1: definitely you know, we're we're all living on this strand

1:01:54 Speaker 1: of of mutually assured destruction. Right the whole world is

1:02:00 Speaker 1: held hostage by that that idea. It really bothers me.

1:02:04 Speaker 1: And that's why this is a.

1:02:05 Speaker 4: Way to bridge the gap, you know, between religion and science,

1:02:08 Speaker 4: but also between religions. Yes, to say, okay, you know

1:02:14 Speaker 4: they were talking about similar things, because in the end,

1:02:18 Speaker 4: if you can strip away the cultural aspects of a religion,

1:02:21 Speaker 4: and I think people don't do that when they try to.

1:02:23 Speaker 3: Take the religious scripture literally. Yes, I mean they were

1:02:26 Speaker 3: written for.

1:02:27 Speaker 4: A group of people at a certain time with certain

1:02:32 Speaker 4: challenges in their society. Yes, we don't necessarily have those

1:02:35 Speaker 4: same challenges. We have a different center.

1:02:37 Speaker 1: Chige exactly.

1:02:38 Speaker 3: So if you strip away the cultural elements of the

1:02:41 Speaker 3: religion and say what religion is really about?

1:02:43 Speaker 4: If you talk to religious scholars, and I've met a

1:02:46 Speaker 4: lot of them, because you know, even though my backgrounds

1:02:49 Speaker 4: technology and science, I actually have presented at academic religious

1:02:53 Speaker 4: conferences about this idea.

1:02:56 Speaker 3: You know, they'll tell you, basically.

1:02:59 Speaker 4: If if you talk to people that religion is about

1:03:02 Speaker 4: what happens after we die.

1:03:04 Speaker 3: What happened before we're born, about that, right, So these

1:03:08 Speaker 3: are the big questions, right, But if we if we.

1:03:11 Speaker 4: Focus on the cosmology of the religions, and sure there

1:03:15 Speaker 4: are differences, I mean some say there's reincarnation and some say, uh,

1:03:19 Speaker 4: some say, you know, this person is is the most important,

1:03:24 Speaker 4: most important. But if you strip away some of that

1:03:26 Speaker 4: and say, okay, what is it they're telling us about

1:03:28 Speaker 4: how the world works, that's where it becomes interesting.

1:03:32 Speaker 1: Is that's where the information is simulation theory.

1:03:34 Speaker 4: I mean I've had people, you know email me from

1:03:36 Speaker 4: different parts of the world, you know, Buddhists, Hindus, Jewish

1:03:41 Speaker 4: folks from Israel, uh, you know, Arabs email, Turkish Muslims

1:03:46 Speaker 4: email me and say, oh, you know, the simulation thing

1:03:49 Speaker 4: actually makes sense because the young people today, Yeah, they

1:03:53 Speaker 4: look at these old scriptures and they're like, yeah.

1:03:55 Speaker 3: What's all this bs?

1:03:56 Speaker 4: Right? Uh, and they see the fundamentalists, the old people

1:04:00 Speaker 4: who are fundamentalists.

1:04:01 Speaker 3: In their religion.

1:04:02 Speaker 4: Yeah, but this becomes a way for them to understand

1:04:07 Speaker 4: this entire idea.

1:04:08 Speaker 1: And I think that's a great way to say it

1:04:10 Speaker 1: is it's it is a bridge but not only between religion, uh,

1:04:18 Speaker 1: and and and science, but into religion, because that's it's

1:04:23 Speaker 1: a really good that's a good way to frame it.

1:04:26 Speaker 4: What you know, I wrote another book obviously right now

1:04:28 Speaker 4: we're talking mostly about the simulation I thought this, but

1:04:30 Speaker 4: I wrote a book a few years ago called.

1:04:31 Speaker 3: Wisdom of a Yogi and oh that's right.

1:04:34 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:04:34 Speaker 3: It was about a guy named Yogananda.

1:04:36 Speaker 4: Swami Yoganan, Yes, wrote Autobiography of Yogi, which is probably

1:04:39 Speaker 4: one of the best known books.

1:04:40 Speaker 3: In the West. Yes, about yoga and meditation, yep.

1:04:42 Speaker 4: And so, Yogananda came over from India in the nineteen

1:04:45 Speaker 4: twenties and he was one of the first Swamis to

1:04:48 Speaker 4: actually come and live in the US. I mean, others visited,

1:04:52 Speaker 4: but he lived here and established, you know, a set

1:04:55 Speaker 4: of teachings but it was really that book that made

1:04:57 Speaker 4: a difference in the sixties to the counterculture or a movement.

1:05:00 Speaker 3: The hippies, like most of them, would pass around this book.

1:05:03 Speaker 3: It was one of the most.

1:05:04 Speaker 4: Pastor around books wow of the generation. In fact, I

1:05:06 Speaker 4: met somebody a couple of years ago he said, oh yeah,

1:05:09 Speaker 4: I was in hate Ashbury in the sixties and somebody

1:05:11 Speaker 4: gave me a copy of this orange book and it

1:05:13 Speaker 4: was autobi Vie and I read it and then I passed.

1:05:16 Speaker 3: It on to somebody else. And you know, Steve Jobs's

1:05:18 Speaker 3: favorite book.

1:05:19 Speaker 4: And so I was asked to write a book about

1:05:23 Speaker 4: him and about his lessons on the seventy fifth anniversary

1:05:27 Speaker 4: of Autobibrash Yogi and from HarperCollins India.

1:05:32 Speaker 3: So from India, they're.

1:05:33 Speaker 4: Like asking me to write a book about, you know,

1:05:35 Speaker 4: the lessons in his interesting.

1:05:38 Speaker 3: And I said, are you sure you want me to

1:05:40 Speaker 3: write it?

1:05:41 Speaker 4: You know, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a technologist, yah right,

1:05:44 Speaker 4: like yoga on a lot.

1:05:45 Speaker 3: I quote him, uh.

1:05:46 Speaker 4: In fact, even in the simulation hypothesis in the chapters

1:05:49 Speaker 4: you know, religious dream, the world being a dream, I

1:05:53 Speaker 4: quote him. But you know, not a swanny, don't you

1:05:55 Speaker 4: want somebody, you know, more steeped in the knowledge.

1:05:58 Speaker 3: They said no, because we want somebody who.

1:05:59 Speaker 4: Can bring modern ideas and language and technology and social

1:06:04 Speaker 4: media and all of these ideas to younger people to

1:06:06 Speaker 4: understand these ancient yogic spiritual ideas. And turns out Yogananda

1:06:12 Speaker 4: was also updating the technology metaphors of his time. So

1:06:16 Speaker 4: he came over in the nineteen twenties and he had

1:06:19 Speaker 4: to explain very like maya or illusion, right, karma to

1:06:24 Speaker 4: people in the West. And this is, you know, primarily

1:06:26 Speaker 4: a Christian country at the time.

1:06:27 Speaker 1: Right, So these are very very unique or new ideas.

1:06:31 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so he had to come up with ways

1:06:33 Speaker 3: to explain it.

1:06:33 Speaker 4: And the way that he came up with was he said, well,

1:06:35 Speaker 4: the world is like a movie. It's like a film projector.

1:06:39 Speaker 4: And yes, the character suffer immensely because he himself had

1:06:43 Speaker 4: seen some newsreels of World War One, which was the

1:06:46 Speaker 4: first mechanized war.

1:06:48 Speaker 3: Yes, the killing was on a scale that.

1:06:51 Speaker 1: The Russians lost, I think, oh my god.

1:06:55 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, World War One was called the Great War

1:06:57 Speaker 4: because of the machine.

1:06:58 Speaker 3: Right, she does.

1:07:00 Speaker 4: But he was looking at reels and said, you know

1:07:03 Speaker 4: how God allows suffering the answer was, yes, they're suffering.

1:07:07 Speaker 4: But if in a film the actors don't die, the

1:07:10 Speaker 4: characters suffer while they're in the movie. And so he

1:07:12 Speaker 4: would use this analogy and he would say, look away

1:07:15 Speaker 4: from the screen, because all of this is the screen.

1:07:18 Speaker 4: You look towards the light that's projecting right onto the screen,

1:07:21 Speaker 4: and that's who we really are.

1:07:23 Speaker 1: Now, that's consciousness.

1:07:25 Speaker 4: Well, that was conscious or God right right right, God

1:07:29 Speaker 4: was projecting the light.

1:07:30 Speaker 1: That was his way of describing that the.

1:07:32 Speaker 3: Whole world is like shadows.

1:07:33 Speaker 4: And he was trying to describe the idea of maya

1:07:36 Speaker 4: or illusion to people.

1:07:38 Speaker 1: And what I thought, maya is earth, No, no gaya, Oh,

1:07:43 Speaker 1: oh my god, Oh my god, I'm such an idiot.

1:07:46 Speaker 1: Illusion Okay.

1:07:47 Speaker 4: And you know, in the Buddhist traditions, Buddha literally means

1:07:52 Speaker 4: woke up somebody who's awake. Because somebody asked him what

1:07:55 Speaker 4: are you, he says, well, I'm awake. He said, I

1:07:58 Speaker 4: am booked, and that translated the Buddha, which we call

1:08:02 Speaker 4: the Buddha today, But that means everybody else is asleep.

1:08:04 Speaker 4: So the dream is another metaphor to say to the

1:08:07 Speaker 4: world around us, is it really the real world? And

1:08:10 Speaker 4: so Yogananda was trying to come up with a metaphor

1:08:12 Speaker 4: to explain that in a way that would make sense

1:08:14 Speaker 4: to modern audiences.

1:08:15 Speaker 1: So is the he's the movie projector so good.

1:08:18 Speaker 4: But if he was around today, So my assertion is

1:08:21 Speaker 4: that he would say, we're in a we're in a

1:08:23 Speaker 4: film but with actors, but we're also the audience. We

1:08:27 Speaker 4: have a script, but we can change, you know, we can.

1:08:29 Speaker 4: We have free will to change the script. Now what

1:08:31 Speaker 4: does that sound like? It sounds like a massively multiplayer

1:08:34 Speaker 4: online We're all playing video game where we're all the players,

1:08:37 Speaker 4: but we're all characters in the game. We're all watching

1:08:39 Speaker 4: the game from our own perspective, right, there's parts of

1:08:42 Speaker 4: us that are outside the game as well.

1:08:45 Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, when we come I'm gonna take a we

1:08:49 Speaker 1: can take a break right here. You take a bathroom

1:08:51 Speaker 1: break or something. And then when we come back, I

1:08:54 Speaker 1: want to start getting into some of the UFO and

1:08:56 Speaker 1: how UFO stuff and how it how I see the

1:09:02 Speaker 1: bridge between the two and how it can allow for that.

1:09:05 Speaker 1: So we'll be right back. All right, that's gonna do

1:09:11 Speaker 1: it for this episode of total disclosure. But don't worry.

1:09:15 Speaker 1: This is a two part conversation with Rizwan verg So.

1:09:21 Speaker 1: Part two will be available very very shortly. If you're

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1:09:55 Speaker 1: All right, guys, we'll catch you on the flip side

1:10:00 Speaker 1: the