The "Father Of Remote Viewing" INGO SWANN & His Mystical Journey

0:09 Speaker 1: What all.

0:12 Speaker 2: Our diap I occasionally think how quickly our difference is

0:16 Speaker 2: worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat

0:20 Speaker 2: from outside this work. And yet I ask you, it's

0:22 Speaker 2: not an alien force already among us.

0:25 Speaker 3: We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether

0:28 Speaker 3: sought or unsolved by the military industrial contact. The potential

0:32 Speaker 3: or the disastrous rise or misplaced power exists and will persist.

0:57 Speaker 1: Now I am become Death Dyer of World Association with

1:00 Speaker 1: Project Group. They definitely withheld.

1:02 Speaker 2: Information, definitely.

1:12 Speaker 1: Going again.

1:15 Speaker 2: You shall be twere or for the test when you

1:17 Speaker 2: are about to give us the truth.

1:19 Speaker 4: The whole truth, and nothing the truth.

1:21 Speaker 1: So help you, guys. Do you believe that our government

1:23 Speaker 1: is in possession of the agents?

1:24 Speaker 4: Absolutely come back to total disclosure. My name is Tie

1:33 Speaker 4: and I am your host. Today you we delve into

1:36 Speaker 4: the extraordinary life and legacy of Ingo Swan, a name

1:40 Speaker 4: synonymous with pioneering exploration in the realms of consciousness and

1:45 Speaker 4: the unknown. As a central figure in the field or

1:48 Speaker 4: remote viewing, Swan's ground baking work not only challenge conventional

1:52 Speaker 4: boundaries but also open doors to new dimensions of understanding.

1:58 Speaker 4: I am very happy today too, welcome the niece of

2:02 Speaker 4: Ingo Swan, Ellie Lippin. Ellie, how you doing. That's such

2:05 Speaker 4: a great name, by the way, Oh that's wonderful.

2:08 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, thank you for such a wonderful introduction.

2:12 Speaker 1: And what an opening. I mean, you're opening to your

2:14 Speaker 1: podcast is so sparring chilling. It's just fantastic to be

2:18 Speaker 1: on your podcast.

2:19 Speaker 4: So thank you, well, thank you for doing this. I

2:21 Speaker 4: know this is a little bit unconventional obviously, you know,

2:25 Speaker 4: we're talking about someone someone else and kind of going

2:30 Speaker 4: through you a family member too, to try to paint

2:35 Speaker 4: as vividly as we can the life and the mysterious

2:38 Speaker 4: and the mystical aspects of Ingo Swan, who is you know,

2:44 Speaker 4: really well known in the UFO community and just this

2:50 Speaker 4: you know, gray world that we live in. And I

2:52 Speaker 4: think I really, I really wanted to start diving deeper

2:56 Speaker 4: into these these individuals. After a couple months ago, something

3:02 Speaker 4: happened and I've kind of been on a path lately

3:06 Speaker 4: of trying to explore and find things that validate what

3:10 Speaker 4: I experienced. I need to be very nuts and bolts

3:12 Speaker 4: now not, I guess that's the way to say it.

3:17 Speaker 1: You know inga would say, we hardly understand the real

3:21 Speaker 1: reality that we live in. So it's probably a very

3:25 Speaker 1: fantastic thing that you've moved from a materialistic nuts and

3:29 Speaker 1: bolts to a more ambiguous understanding of the world. Because

3:35 Speaker 1: Inga would say, our frames of reference, you call them

3:38 Speaker 1: reality boxes, are dictated to us. So if you can

3:42 Speaker 1: start to make your way out of them, you'll understand

3:45 Speaker 1: actually what a prison we do live in. So I

3:48 Speaker 1: commend you for starting on that journey.

3:51 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so maybe we can introduce So who is

3:56 Speaker 4: Ingo Swan to you? I did say introduction, but maybe

4:01 Speaker 4: we can start off by just getting to know a

4:03 Speaker 4: little bit about who you are and why you've continued to,

4:08 Speaker 4: you know, stay relevant in the in the realm of

4:11 Speaker 4: what Ingo's Swan did and what his work was.

4:14 Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, so Ingo with my uncle. He was the

4:20 Speaker 1: older brother to my mother. So Ingo had two sisters,

4:23 Speaker 1: my mother and another sister who passed away in nineteen

4:28 Speaker 1: eighty nine who has her own family. So but Ingo

4:32 Speaker 1: was closest to my mom. So my mom was the

4:34 Speaker 1: baby of the family and Ingo is eight years older

4:37 Speaker 1: than my mom. But for some reason they just formed

4:41 Speaker 1: a very close relationship. Even though there was say eight

4:44 Speaker 1: years between them. My mom always said that she would

4:47 Speaker 1: just follow along whatever my my uncle was doing with

4:51 Speaker 1: his friends. And she know, of course, like a young sibling,

4:53 Speaker 1: wanted to do everything with him, and he wanted nothing

4:56 Speaker 1: to do with her. Who would do had this little

5:00 Speaker 1: young girl like following along with your friends. You're trying

5:04 Speaker 1: to have adventures, right, and here's this thing like holding

5:07 Speaker 1: you back. But as they got older, and my mom

5:13 Speaker 1: was living in New Jersey, and when she graduated from

5:16 Speaker 1: high school and ultimately went to nursing school in New Jersey,

5:19 Speaker 1: she was just across the river from Ingo, who was

5:21 Speaker 1: in Lower Manhattan at the time, and so they just

5:25 Speaker 1: began to sort of reconnect at that point and it

5:28 Speaker 1: ended up just forming a very strong bond from that

5:31 Speaker 1: point on. And so because of that, when Ingo was

5:36 Speaker 1: at Stanford Research Institute, which is, you know, just outside

5:39 Speaker 1: of Stanford, California, my mom had moved us, my sister

5:44 Speaker 1: and I to Coopertino, which is you know, now known

5:48 Speaker 1: as the headquarters of Apple but before that it was

5:51 Speaker 1: just you know, a sleepy bedroom community of orchards before

5:56 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley really blossomed. So cooper Tino was not that

6:00 Speaker 1: far away just outside of San Joise from where Ingo

6:05 Speaker 1: was at Stanford.

6:06 Speaker 4: So Inga would spend a lot.

6:08 Speaker 1: Of time with us. Sometimes he when he was at SRI,

6:11 Speaker 1: he was a consultant.

6:13 Speaker 4: He was not an.

6:14 Speaker 1: Employee, nor a full time employee, but a consultant, so

6:17 Speaker 1: shuttling between New York and the West Coast. So sometimes

6:21 Speaker 1: he would stay at hotels, sometimes apartments, sometimes with friends

6:24 Speaker 1: and sometimes with us. So it's always sort of this charismatic,

6:30 Speaker 1: mysterious individual that would just pop in, take over one

6:34 Speaker 1: of either my bedroom or my sister's bedroom, and then

6:39 Speaker 1: and then and then leave. And then sometimes we would

6:41 Speaker 1: go up and stay with him at his hotel or

6:44 Speaker 1: apartment because in Everly it had a swimming pool and

6:47 Speaker 1: we would just spend the time in the swimming pool.

6:50 Speaker 1: So yeah, so he he was just a family member

6:53 Speaker 1: to us, a little kind of unknown and it's sort

6:58 Speaker 1: of a mystery around him until he's started to bring

7:00 Speaker 1: his students and.

7:01 Speaker 4: I can talk about that. So so yeah, so he

7:08 Speaker 4: did you know what was going on? Like, so when

7:11 Speaker 4: did you find out who he was? Who he really

7:14 Speaker 4: really was?

7:15 Speaker 1: So when we were in Cooper Tino, we knew that

7:19 Speaker 1: he was doing experiments at s Ryan. We knew that

7:22 Speaker 1: they were like psychic in nature because sometimes you would

7:27 Speaker 1: bring the students over and they would have dinner with us,

7:30 Speaker 1: and sometimes they would pull out the silverware and then

7:34 Speaker 1: they would all try to bend the silverware. And yeah,

7:39 Speaker 1: I tried to hear it again, and they were very successful,

7:41 Speaker 1: and it like drove my mom crazy because you had

7:43 Speaker 1: to always get new silver w Yes, they would do it,

7:48 Speaker 1: but but you know, to me, I was in middle

7:50 Speaker 1: school and that was sort of a frightening experience for

7:54 Speaker 1: me because in my mind, like psychics could read your mind,

7:58 Speaker 1: and so I know, my sister and I were always

8:00 Speaker 1: deathly afraid that they would know some sort of secret

8:04 Speaker 1: we were keeping from my mom, right.

8:07 Speaker 4: God, so yeah, so so, but we.

8:11 Speaker 1: Didn't really need to worry about it because Ingo loved

8:14 Speaker 1: to get people really drunk and he loved me kind

8:17 Speaker 1: of them, so I think they were like a little

8:20 Speaker 1: too slash to really be concerned about any secrets that

8:24 Speaker 1: we may be keeping from my mom.

8:26 Speaker 4: Yeah.

8:26 Speaker 1: So yeah, so we knew he had We knew he

8:30 Speaker 1: had students that were working on psychic stuff. And really

8:35 Speaker 1: it wasn't until I graduated from college in nineteen ninety one,

8:39 Speaker 1: and I didn't have a place to say, I sort

8:42 Speaker 1: I have a roommate and that fell apart, and the

8:44 Speaker 1: Goo said, hey, come live with me. And it wasn't

8:47 Speaker 1: until I sort of moved into his home at three

8:49 Speaker 1: fifty seven of the Bowery, which is in the East

8:52 Speaker 1: Village of Manhattan, that they got to understand that things

8:55 Speaker 1: were a little bit more complicated in the.

8:57 Speaker 4: Life of Ingo Swan, right right, Oh, that's very interesting.

9:01 Speaker 4: So can you can you tell us about Englishwan's early

9:05 Speaker 4: life and what kind of led him to develop and

9:07 Speaker 4: explore this ability.

9:10 Speaker 1: Sure, so even from when he was a young child.

9:13 Speaker 4: It's very precocious.

9:16 Speaker 1: He could see things that obviously figured out very quickly

9:19 Speaker 1: that other people could not see. So he describes it

9:22 Speaker 1: as seeing butterfly lights around people. We might call that

9:27 Speaker 1: seeing auras today it's seeing lights and energies around individuals.

9:32 Speaker 1: And he would try to explain this to his parents

9:35 Speaker 1: and they didn't really have a concept for what that was.

9:40 Speaker 1: But fortunately his maternal grandmother, so my great grandmother, she

9:47 Speaker 1: had many of the same experiences that Ingo had, and

9:50 Speaker 1: so they could form a very close bond the two

9:53 Speaker 1: of them, and sort of talk to each other in

9:57 Speaker 1: a way. So even when he wouldn't explain these things

10:01 Speaker 1: to his parents, he had a grandmother that he could

10:04 Speaker 1: sort of weave his way through life of a very

10:08 Speaker 1: strange understanding of what was happening around him. So very young,

10:11 Speaker 1: So even when he's two or three, he's having these experiences.

10:15 Speaker 1: And he does write about having his tonsils removed, and

10:20 Speaker 1: he talks about having his first out of body experience

10:23 Speaker 1: during that surgery where he drifts up and then he's

10:27 Speaker 1: able to actually see in the operating room where his

10:31 Speaker 1: tonsils are in a jar, and when he wakes up,

10:33 Speaker 1: he can he can describe them in the jar. So yeah,

10:38 Speaker 1: seeing Auras he's having out of body experiences and he's

10:41 Speaker 1: actually having premonitions. It was something he actually was able

10:45 Speaker 1: to discuss with his grandmother too. Tell You're right, he writes,

10:50 Speaker 1: is very before it was all the written famous, the

10:53 Speaker 1: playground and the written famous. It was a mining community,

10:57 Speaker 1: and Ingo says, those who work very closely with with

11:00 Speaker 1: the environment are very attuned to when there are shifts

11:03 Speaker 1: in that environment, so very apt to knowing when something

11:09 Speaker 1: might happen. And definitely tell you writes right against a

11:12 Speaker 1: very sheer, sheer mountain face. So the danger of landslides,

11:17 Speaker 1: the danger of avalanches was always present, or caven's in

11:22 Speaker 1: the cave, in the in the mining caves, and so

11:24 Speaker 1: miners were very attuned to like when there might be

11:27 Speaker 1: a shift happening, and so it was known, as he

11:29 Speaker 1: called it, the knowing.

11:31 Speaker 4: So he's already in.

11:32 Speaker 1: An environment that's kind of using their intuition and they've

11:35 Speaker 1: gut instincts. And then and then he himself having these

11:40 Speaker 1: other types of experiences. So he did have premonitions. When

11:43 Speaker 1: he was young, he saw his house catching on fire.

11:48 Speaker 1: He did warn his parents about it. They did ultimately

11:51 Speaker 1: take him at his word and fled the house, and

11:55 Speaker 1: then there was a fire that burned down the house.

11:57 Speaker 1: So yeah, so I think he from a young age

12:00 Speaker 1: had these things until he was about seven or eight

12:05 Speaker 1: when he started to have very philosophical discussions with his

12:11 Speaker 1: Sunday school teacher. And once these discussions happened, and he

12:17 Speaker 1: quickly learned that these were very taboo subjects and certainly

12:22 Speaker 1: not one to be having your Sunday school teacher. So

12:25 Speaker 1: he was so he was sort of banned from Sunday school,

12:28 Speaker 1: which was it was a very difficult experience for him.

12:33 Speaker 1: So he was very learned to sort of kind of

12:36 Speaker 1: not talk about these things and to shut these things

12:39 Speaker 1: down because the ramifications were very damaging to him.

12:44 Speaker 4: Right right. I mean, you know something that's on the

12:47 Speaker 4: mind of a lot of people right now are the

12:49 Speaker 4: televithy tapes, that podcast that just came out. And I

12:54 Speaker 4: mean American sign language was considered pseudoscience for up until

12:59 Speaker 4: the seven right, So we look at that like, that's

13:03 Speaker 4: just one at least one notion to say that yesterday's

13:08 Speaker 4: supernatural is today's natural. And it sounds like what Ingo

13:13 Speaker 4: had is a very acute brain and attuned to the

13:20 Speaker 4: environment around him, something maybe that we all have inside

13:24 Speaker 4: of us, but more activated inside of England.

13:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he would say that. I think that

13:31 Speaker 1: was his life's journey, is to say there are what

13:35 Speaker 1: he called superpowers of the human bio mind that are

13:39 Speaker 1: innate within it. So within our biobodies and our bio minds,

13:44 Speaker 1: abilities or faculties might be a better word, in which

13:48 Speaker 1: we are very plugged into a very interconnected aspect. The

13:54 Speaker 1: way he might describe it is how you might look

13:57 Speaker 1: at the Force in Star Wars, very similar, very similar

14:02 Speaker 1: that there is this interconnected web that we can plug into,

14:07 Speaker 1: but we've been trained away from utilizing what he called

14:12 Speaker 1: our perceptual awareness system. So the vast array of senses

14:17 Speaker 1: within our bodies. And I'll give you example. So for

14:20 Speaker 1: those who are maybe able to hold things in their hands,

14:26 Speaker 1: you know psychics who are like, let me hold something

14:28 Speaker 1: and I can.

14:29 Speaker 4: Get some read off of it.

14:31 Speaker 1: What may be happening, he speculated, is that we have

14:34 Speaker 1: some senses in our hands that are able to sense

14:39 Speaker 1: these energies and vibrations off the object, similar to maybe

14:44 Speaker 1: how a dog smells a piece of clothing and is

14:48 Speaker 1: able to track that person based on the scent. Very

14:51 Speaker 1: you know that there's some sort of energy or aspect

14:56 Speaker 1: that is able to be sensed in some way in

15:00 Speaker 1: our biobodies.

15:02 Speaker 4: That's actually a very good, a good way to visualize it,

15:07 Speaker 4: because you know, I've always thought, at least to myself,

15:11 Speaker 4: that the consciousness seems to be the key. And why

15:18 Speaker 4: do you think, why do you think that is so taboo?

15:22 Speaker 4: Why do you think consciousness is no taboo?

15:25 Speaker 1: Well, he Ingo explains, it is the original definition of

15:30 Speaker 1: aware meant two things to be wary, to be attuned

15:35 Speaker 1: to things that might be dangerous in your environment, to

15:40 Speaker 1: be kind of on guard about something, and then to

15:43 Speaker 1: look for opportunities. So two sides of the coin. No danger,

15:48 Speaker 1: but knowing something might be very beneficial for you. But

15:51 Speaker 1: if you're a power structure, you certainly don't want a

15:54 Speaker 1: lot of aware people who might be aware to what

16:00 Speaker 1: kind of things you might be manipulating around them and

16:03 Speaker 1: able to do something about it. So so yeah, So

16:07 Speaker 1: he talks about power structures that are very afraid of

16:12 Speaker 1: having very powered individuals.

16:15 Speaker 4: So essentially keep the masses suppressed right so that they

16:20 Speaker 4: cannot and will not want to see what's really there.

16:27 Speaker 4: And I talk about this a lot lately because we

16:31 Speaker 4: grow up, or at least most of us, grow up

16:33 Speaker 4: in a home that is, you know, our parents, we

16:38 Speaker 4: learned that the world is black and white.

16:40 Speaker 2: Right.

16:40 Speaker 4: What you can see, feel, touch, what you can what

16:45 Speaker 4: you can smell, Those are the sense you know, Those

16:47 Speaker 4: are the things that are real. This table is real,

16:49 Speaker 4: this microphone's real. It's not until like it's not until

16:52 Speaker 4: very much later in our lives that we kind of

16:55 Speaker 4: realize there's more gray than we were ever led to believe.

16:58 Speaker 4: And I call that for me I call it the

17:02 Speaker 4: moment of conversion. For me, it was when I saw

17:05 Speaker 4: a Ufo as a child. Then the world became really gray, right,

17:11 Speaker 4: And I had so many more questions that my parents

17:14 Speaker 4: couldn't answer or weren't willing to answer. Other people weren't

17:18 Speaker 4: willing to answer them either, maybe due to their religious beliefs.

17:22 Speaker 4: So there's a lot of constraints societally when it comes

17:26 Speaker 4: to these phenomena. So I definitely understand that you.

17:31 Speaker 1: Think about a good analogy would be the Hubble telescope

17:35 Speaker 1: versus the James Web telescope. Right, So our world, what

17:38 Speaker 1: we understood, was defined by what or let's say the

17:42 Speaker 1: universe or the Solar system or space defined by what

17:46 Speaker 1: we could see in telescopes, and the furthest one was Hubble,

17:49 Speaker 1: and that's what we built our understanding around. And then

17:53 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, James Web comes along, and James

17:55 Speaker 1: Web is able to read at frequencies and translate that

18:01 Speaker 1: spectrum for us, and all of a sudden, what we

18:04 Speaker 1: thought didn't exist. There's something at these extended extremes of

18:09 Speaker 1: these frequencies that is there, and so is re defining

18:13 Speaker 1: our understanding of space, of what's out there in space,

18:17 Speaker 1: how space operates, and so if James Web could do this,

18:23 Speaker 1: why wouldn't our human bodies.

18:25 Speaker 4: Also be able to do this? Right?

18:27 Speaker 1: So we get so locked into the scientific mode of

18:32 Speaker 1: it's tangible when I actually tangible is just a minute

18:38 Speaker 1: example of what is around us. What is around us

18:41 Speaker 1: is more intangible.

18:43 Speaker 4: Than tangible, right right, right, And that's a really good

18:48 Speaker 4: segue actually, So as a family member, you know, what,

18:55 Speaker 4: what unique insights can you share about NGO's personality, work, ethic,

19:01 Speaker 4: or mindset that contributed to the groundbreaking work.

19:06 Speaker 1: Well, he is a virgo. His love lifelong passion is astrology.

19:13 Speaker 1: So if you know Virgos, you know they're very precise

19:16 Speaker 1: and very detail oriented, very demanding. He's also a rooster

19:21 Speaker 1: in the Chinese astrology, so he's very vibrant and likes

19:26 Speaker 1: to be the center of attention. And then you have

19:28 Speaker 1: this very precocious child that you know, for a good

19:32 Speaker 1: seven years was an only child and like doted on

19:34 Speaker 1: by everybody in the community until his sisters came along

19:38 Speaker 1: and kind of ruined that party for him. But you know,

19:42 Speaker 1: at least had a grounding in that, so he had

19:45 Speaker 1: a lot of things going for he was very you know, inquisitive,

19:48 Speaker 1: and of course he had, like I said, he had

19:52 Speaker 1: his grandmother to talk about, So even though he wasn't

19:54 Speaker 1: really sharing it, at least he had some sort of

19:56 Speaker 1: grounding that something else was out there. Even if he

19:59 Speaker 1: wasn't exploring it, he least kind of had an understanding

20:03 Speaker 1: of that. So I guess that from individual viewpoint, he

20:11 Speaker 1: had these very interesting confluence of personality traits and sort

20:17 Speaker 1: of how he viewed the world in inquisitiveness that kind

20:20 Speaker 1: of led him down that track, which is I think different.

20:24 Speaker 1: And of course because he's outside of society too. You

20:28 Speaker 1: know that I started outside of society and he just

20:32 Speaker 1: kind of even though it was suppressed, it's still inside

20:35 Speaker 1: of him that questioning of what is the proper way

20:38 Speaker 1: to go about living a life?

20:39 Speaker 4: Yeah, so how did we go from how does it

20:46 Speaker 4: go from Ingoswan having these abilities to the government taking notice?

20:52 Speaker 4: I guess that's so he must have been doing doing

20:58 Speaker 4: something that alerted that, like, hey, he might be a

21:01 Speaker 4: good candidate. So when did he or from your best

21:07 Speaker 4: recollection of the events, what what was he doing before

21:12 Speaker 4: the government contacted him? That maybe through the right flag up.

21:17 Speaker 1: Sure, so in the late nineteen sixties. So around sixty

21:24 Speaker 1: nine he began. He was very good, well, he was

21:28 Speaker 1: concerned what he hadn't Moniker, which was the psychic artist.

21:32 Speaker 1: So he after he left the army in the late

21:36 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties and he moved to New York, he wanted

21:38 Speaker 1: to be an artist. And so I'm going to sort

21:41 Speaker 1: of give some it's sort of a little long story

21:44 Speaker 1: if you did bear with me for a moment, Sorry

21:46 Speaker 1: to Dicrasp, but I do think. So he comes to

21:52 Speaker 1: New York to be an artist, and of course he's

21:55 Speaker 1: going to try to fit in with what everybody else

21:58 Speaker 1: is selling, which is sort of that Dolly Askue kind

22:01 Speaker 1: of surreal black and white kind of imagery. But he's

22:07 Speaker 1: just one of like ten thousand artists in New York.

22:09 Speaker 1: It's not like he's going to be any Nothing about

22:12 Speaker 1: him is unique or stands out. So he's struggling and

22:16 Speaker 1: he says, finally, you know what, I'm just going to

22:18 Speaker 1: paint when I want to paint, And so he starts

22:20 Speaker 1: painting what he sees the auras, the.

22:23 Speaker 4: Bubbles, entities, aspects of.

22:28 Speaker 1: Other realms, things of that nature. So not really a

22:33 Speaker 1: commercial success because his day job is at the United Nations.

22:37 Speaker 1: He's a secretary in the pr department at the United Nations.

22:41 Speaker 1: But he at least is painting the imagery, the coal imagery,

22:46 Speaker 1: the other realm imagery, the aura as the aura imagery that.

22:51 Speaker 4: He wants to paint.

22:51 Speaker 1: So he gains a reputation as the psychic artist. And

22:56 Speaker 1: he's really connected within the West Village, very bo So

23:00 Speaker 1: there's an undercurrent brewing in.

23:03 Speaker 4: The West Village.

23:04 Speaker 1: It's very connected to things of an other nature, so

23:07 Speaker 1: extrasensory type things, and he's always very connected with that community.

23:12 Speaker 1: And because he's connected to that community, it's at a

23:14 Speaker 1: party one day that a young couple now has a

23:19 Speaker 1: crillion camera right that can record auras, and they say, hey,

23:25 Speaker 1: let's go to a back room, let's close the curtain,

23:27 Speaker 1: and everybody think about an energy ball over your head

23:30 Speaker 1: and we'll see if we can photograph it. And so

23:32 Speaker 1: they all do, and when the film has developed, there's

23:37 Speaker 1: Ingo's the only one with a ball of light above

23:39 Speaker 1: his head, and that's when everybody goes, oh, you must

23:43 Speaker 1: be psychic, right, there's something about you that could create

23:45 Speaker 1: this energy above your head that we could then we

23:48 Speaker 1: could then photograph and because he's connected to this sort

23:52 Speaker 1: of underground extrasensory kind of movement that's happening, they put

23:58 Speaker 1: him in touch with very researchers and the first one

24:02 Speaker 1: is Cleve Baxter, and Cleve Baxter is known sort of

24:05 Speaker 1: as like the Primary is books on Primary Perception, but

24:09 Speaker 1: he's also known for doing those experiments with plants. So

24:13 Speaker 1: his first thing is he's been doing experiments himself. He's

24:18 Speaker 1: a former CIA interrogation specialist, is very much into sort

24:22 Speaker 1: of like hypno and narco interrogation is his specialty. But

24:28 Speaker 1: he's built his own kind of pseudo lie detector that

24:32 Speaker 1: he connects up to plants, and he's been doing experiments

24:36 Speaker 1: where he's thinking about harming the plants to see if

24:38 Speaker 1: they'll be sort of and he's hooked up as plants,

24:40 Speaker 1: so a reaction from the plants if there'll be some

24:43 Speaker 1: sort of on his machine. And he's able to do that,

24:46 Speaker 1: but he feels like, because he's both the experimenter and

24:49 Speaker 1: the participant, that that's probably not going to be very valid.

24:53 Speaker 4: So he is part of.

24:55 Speaker 1: This community that is connected with NGO and says, hey,

24:58 Speaker 1: why don't you come down, let's sort of try out

25:00 Speaker 1: you do this, and of course when Ingo does this,

25:03 Speaker 1: the plants respond immediately, and that is like thinking, I'm

25:07 Speaker 1: going to light a match and then set your leaf

25:09 Speaker 1: on fire, and the plants, the plants somehow they're read

25:13 Speaker 1: out to spikes until the plant figures out that Ingo's

25:16 Speaker 1: not really going to light a match, and you know,

25:19 Speaker 1: and then it kind of diminishes, which is kind of fascinating.

25:22 Speaker 1: So their studies are on plants on other bodily fluids,

25:29 Speaker 1: including blood, and Ingo is actually able to perturb the blood,

25:35 Speaker 1: and cleavebacks are being former quite possibly even still currently.

25:40 Speaker 1: CIA says, Hey, the boys down in Langley, they're going

25:44 Speaker 1: to be really interested about this. So I think he

25:47 Speaker 1: was already because of that, because he's able to perturb blood.

25:50 Speaker 4: I mean, that's pretty fascinating.

25:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's going to be pretty interesting to them because

25:56 Speaker 1: at this time the Soviets, their work in parasitecology has

26:01 Speaker 1: been on psychotronics, and psychotronics is the manipulating of some

26:05 Speaker 1: sort of something, primarily sensitive equipment, but also could it

26:09 Speaker 1: stop somebody's heart, could you set off a bomb? You know,

26:13 Speaker 1: the whole spectrum is really what they're working in. The

26:15 Speaker 1: CIA is obviously very concerned about what the Soviets are

26:19 Speaker 1: doing with psychotronics. So Inga's ability to manipulate something, it's

26:25 Speaker 1: going to be of interest to the CIA. So I

26:27 Speaker 1: think he was because of that, became on the CIA's radar.

26:31 Speaker 5: Right almost, So it's almost a psychic spy, right, or

26:40 Speaker 5: psychic warrior spy, at least from the CIA's perspective, right,

26:47 Speaker 5: if they're they're worried about what the Soviet Union's doing.

26:50 Speaker 4: Well, but we got to do it. We got to

26:52 Speaker 4: do it better.

26:53 Speaker 1: We have to do it better. Yeah. So he then

26:55 Speaker 1: goes on to work with doctor Gertrude Schmidler at the

26:58 Speaker 1: City College of New York, and her experiments are she's

27:01 Speaker 1: putting thermometers into sealed canisters and INGOs in a different

27:07 Speaker 1: room and she's saying what to do to each of

27:11 Speaker 1: the thermometers, and Ingo's able to do whatever it is,

27:15 Speaker 1: make the the monitor go up, make the thermometer go down,

27:17 Speaker 1: or do nothing. And again that's going to be very

27:21 Speaker 1: interesting to the CIA. You can affect some sort of change,

27:26 Speaker 1: right of a.

27:27 Speaker 4: Liquid sil candish right.

27:31 Speaker 1: But ultimately he then goes to the American Society for

27:34 Speaker 1: Cyclical Research the ASPR, where doctor Carlos Osis and Genet

27:39 Speaker 1: Lee Mitchell are doing out of body experiments and in

27:44 Speaker 1: that case, he's doing astral projection experiments to look at

27:47 Speaker 1: things and the shelf that's in a different room.

27:51 Speaker 4: And this is what he writes about in.

27:53 Speaker 1: His book Everybody's Guide to Naturally Speace, talking about those

27:56 Speaker 1: kind of experiments, and you know, ultimately the confluence of

28:01 Speaker 1: those psychokinesis experiments and his out of body experiments sort

28:08 Speaker 1: of create a pathway to where he's put in touch

28:11 Speaker 1: with doctor hal put Off at SRI and ultimately leaves

28:16 Speaker 1: has him leaving the ASPR because he gets fed up

28:19 Speaker 1: because his work he is one hundred percent accurate, and

28:24 Speaker 1: the board at the ASPR says, it's just impossible, nobody

28:28 Speaker 1: could be that good. There must be some fraud involved

28:31 Speaker 1: with that. And of course doctor Osis and Janetlee Mitchell

28:37 Speaker 1: and Ingo or Flabbery Acid like.

28:39 Speaker 4: There is no fraud.

28:40 Speaker 1: But here you a paracutsmer psychologist saying it's too good

28:44 Speaker 1: to be true, it can't be true. And that is

28:47 Speaker 1: very frustrating for NGO, and I think compels him really

28:51 Speaker 1: into doctor Putoff's arms, and he's going to Stanford Research

28:55 Speaker 1: Institute for psychokinesis not for out of body, for remote being,

29:01 Speaker 1: but to be able to manipulate sensitive equipment. Again, the

29:06 Speaker 1: Soviet with the race with the psycho kinesis is of

29:10 Speaker 1: paramount importance, and that's why he is at SRI and

29:14 Speaker 1: Uri Gellers is.

29:16 Speaker 4: Not far behind right when he gets there. Yeah, yeah,

29:20 Speaker 4: And there's the famous famous story from his uh work

29:26 Speaker 4: with the American Society of Psychical I was messed up

29:30 Speaker 4: the American Society of Psychical Research where he tells Uh,

29:36 Speaker 4: he says, there, I can't see anything but darkness, and

29:40 Speaker 4: You're like, you can't, you know, he can't do it,

29:43 Speaker 4: only to find out that when they went in the room,

29:46 Speaker 4: the light bulb had been out. So that's kind of

29:49 Speaker 4: really that story really sticks out and stands out, and

29:54 Speaker 4: then from there goes to Sri Help put Off. Help

29:59 Speaker 4: put Off is someone who I've been very interested in.

30:03 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm interested in all of them, Russell targ

30:06 Speaker 4: Edwin may Ingo and Pat Price and many of these

30:10 Speaker 4: people because they were on the inside of these programs,

30:14 Speaker 4: the programs right now that we're trying to get a

30:17 Speaker 4: hold of, and it just it fascinates me. So okay,

30:21 Speaker 4: so he meets how put off and from there where

30:28 Speaker 4: do we go?

30:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, so there are two things that happen. So so

30:31 Speaker 1: how says, I have this experiment for you. It's going

30:35 Speaker 1: to be a psychokinesis experiment. It's going to be in

30:38 Speaker 1: the Hall of Physics at Stanford University. There is a machine,

30:42 Speaker 1: it's called a Magni meter. It is looking for what

30:45 Speaker 1: I guess you would call it quarks or sort of

30:48 Speaker 1: like nanoparticles. It is trying to detect them, and it

30:53 Speaker 1: is buried under eight feet of cement and its design

30:57 Speaker 1: is classified. Yeah, and until that point, the line on

31:01 Speaker 1: the machine has been like this, I mean.

31:03 Speaker 4: Just study. So they have a good base.

31:06 Speaker 1: They know it's they know the design is not out there.

31:11 Speaker 1: No one knows what it looks like. And it's buried

31:14 Speaker 1: under eight ft dismounts. It's well shielded, and there are

31:18 Speaker 1: physics physicists around with machines monitoring it. So I think

31:22 Speaker 1: it's a very good experiment.

31:24 Speaker 4: Okay, ango, I'm gonna bring you there. You do your thing.

31:27 Speaker 4: That's basis.

31:28 Speaker 1: Do you do your thing? So Inga says, he actually

31:32 Speaker 1: just shifted his attention. So when you think of something

31:35 Speaker 1: like we use the word attention, right, attention is your energy.

31:39 Speaker 1: You think about it, I think about we pay attention,

31:43 Speaker 1: we give somebody our attention, we steal attention, we divide attention,

31:48 Speaker 1: we concentrate our attention. Right, all these things the way

31:51 Speaker 1: we use the word. But so fascinating. It actually is

31:55 Speaker 1: just putting attention on something, so putting his energy onto it,

32:00 Speaker 1: which he does.

32:02 Speaker 4: And when he does this.

32:04 Speaker 1: This little readout that's been like this starts Coach and

32:11 Speaker 1: as he's doing this, he starts to draw the design

32:14 Speaker 1: of this which then Ingo says that the physicist like

32:19 Speaker 1: one of them like runs out, tries to run out

32:21 Speaker 1: of the room and runs into a door. I mean,

32:22 Speaker 1: they're just so shot that not only is this machine reacting,

32:27 Speaker 1: but now he's drawing a classified piece of equipment what

32:32 Speaker 1: its design is. And at that point, how how's on

32:38 Speaker 1: the phone with the CIA right like we got him,

32:42 Speaker 1: We got we got it because SRI at this point,

32:46 Speaker 1: it is not the funding is you have to go

32:50 Speaker 1: get your own funding. Yes, this isn't This isn't like

32:54 Speaker 1: you there's a well spring of funds. You have to

32:58 Speaker 1: go fundraise your if you want to do work, you

33:01 Speaker 1: have to bring money. You're bringing money to the So

33:03 Speaker 1: of course anybody is going to be calling any potential

33:06 Speaker 1: funder that they can, and they know the CIA is

33:09 Speaker 1: going to be very interested in this. Now, keeping in

33:12 Speaker 1: mind that Russell Targ has said that just after this

33:19 Speaker 1: he has approached the he has been through a series

33:24 Speaker 1: of circumstances. This is an interview. He gave it to

33:26 Speaker 1: Richard Dolan, so it's you know, it's on YouTube. You

33:29 Speaker 1: could watch it where you're Ultimately, he meets a person

33:35 Speaker 1: by the name of Arthur Arts. Arts is short Reads,

33:39 Speaker 1: and Reads is an engineer with NASA, and Art brings

33:45 Speaker 1: says to Russell's pitching his ESP machine as an ESP

33:50 Speaker 1: teaching machine, and so Russell's looking for a way to

33:53 Speaker 1: get this funded and he he in Arts meet with

33:59 Speaker 1: the director of NASA. This is what Targ says, and

34:02 Speaker 1: Russell is very aware of their recent Apollo thirteen disaster,

34:06 Speaker 1: and they saying, hey, you know, instead of having people

34:09 Speaker 1: in space where something could blow up, I could help

34:14 Speaker 1: teach your pilots how to use equipment in space and

34:17 Speaker 1: on the Moon telepathically. And for some reason this is

34:20 Speaker 1: very appealing to NASA, and all of a sudden, a

34:23 Speaker 1: few weeks later, he's got dollars in hand with Art Reaches,

34:27 Speaker 1: his contract manager, and he shows up at SRI. So

34:30 Speaker 1: you have NGO working with hal on telecmeesis or psychokinesis experiments,

34:37 Speaker 1: and then you have targ showing up with NASA funding

34:41 Speaker 1: to teach people how to operate something in space, which

34:45 Speaker 1: I think is pretty fascinating. And shortly thereafter that's when

34:48 Speaker 1: ur A Geller comes on the scene. So it's a

34:50 Speaker 1: combination of the CIA funding and this funding from NASA

34:53 Speaker 1: for that first.

34:54 Speaker 4: Year, right, right, So isn't it interesting NASA? Yeah always,

35:01 Speaker 4: It never ceases to amaze me to hear how they're

35:06 Speaker 4: always involved yet you know, no nothing from them on anything.

35:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so anything. So that after that first year,

35:16 Speaker 1: so in May of nineteen so that's the summer. So

35:20 Speaker 1: Ingo comes in the summer of nineteen seventy two, and

35:24 Speaker 1: in about the spring of nineteen seventy three, Ingo writes

35:29 Speaker 1: a letter to l Ron Hybrid Ingod had been studying

35:32 Speaker 1: scientology at that point, so Ingo is very interested in

35:35 Speaker 1: a lot of things. That was something that he explored.

35:40 Speaker 1: But you know, he had in the nineteen sixties, he

35:43 Speaker 1: had studied Alice Bailey's Artne school. He'd studied Rudolph Steiner

35:49 Speaker 1: with his his sort of theosophical bent on things, So

35:54 Speaker 1: he was very familiar with the occult, all the occult angles.

35:59 Speaker 4: He studied them, very interested in the Fourth Way. So

36:03 Speaker 4: every Eastern.

36:04 Speaker 1: Philosophy, every major religion, and so when Scientology comes on

36:09 Speaker 1: the scene, you know, it's kind of the thing that's

36:10 Speaker 1: kind of exploring the mystical stuff. So of course he's

36:12 Speaker 1: going to add this to us about So.

36:15 Speaker 4: Do you think that now had any influence on that?

36:20 Speaker 1: Oh? No, Ingo was already studying at Scientology before he

36:24 Speaker 1: went out to SORI, So he actually was studying and

36:29 Speaker 1: he left his job at the un and studied in

36:33 Speaker 1: Los Angeles doing all the high level courses in nineteen

36:36 Speaker 1: sixty nine, and he doesn't go to SRI until nineteen

36:39 Speaker 1: seventy two.

36:41 Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know, so.

36:44 Speaker 1: He manages to Anger's like an incredible networker. He manages

36:49 Speaker 1: to become very close with l Ron Hobbard's left hand

36:52 Speaker 1: and right hand. So two women, you know what, doing opposite,

36:57 Speaker 1: Virginia Downsborough and then an and another one, so they're

37:02 Speaker 1: they're very close to Alvin Hubard is very close with

37:04 Speaker 1: Elvin Hubbard, and in fact, he and Alvin Hubbard are

37:07 Speaker 1: sharing correspondences back and forth, you know, and and Hubbard's

37:11 Speaker 1: very supportive of Ingo's work at SRI. And so Ingo

37:16 Speaker 1: writes a letter in May of nineteen seventy three saying

37:21 Speaker 1: I have figured out one we're not alone on this planet.

37:26 Speaker 1: And two there is a deep seated control mechanism in place.

37:34 Speaker 4: So some sort of like we might call it the

37:37 Speaker 4: deep state. Deep state, Yeah, the deep.

37:40 Speaker 1: State that is that is working to create an unemployable, unproductive,

37:46 Speaker 1: uneducated majority and mind control and bioautomative.

37:52 Speaker 4: If only he could see yesterday.

37:54 Speaker 1: Right right, I mean exactly, this is nineteen seventy three,

37:57 Speaker 1: and I look at our society today and I go, wow,

37:59 Speaker 1: that did take long?

38:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, what he said, aged, well, yes, yes.

38:07 Speaker 1: So so shortly after a month after that letter to

38:11 Speaker 1: Howard Pat Price, another scientologist appears at sr and I

38:17 Speaker 1: think he's actually come to assist NGO with this. You know,

38:23 Speaker 1: we've discovered something. This is pretty major. There's there's something

38:28 Speaker 1: undercurrent that is really working against the development of the

38:32 Speaker 1: human consciousness in really trying to deride our individuality. Right,

38:39 Speaker 1: so my Price shows up and they and Price begins

38:43 Speaker 1: working on experiments with Ingo. Now Price is interestingly, I

38:49 Speaker 1: know he's going to hail to sort of like the

38:50 Speaker 1: gold standard. But Price was Price's work was often spotty

38:56 Speaker 1: and it was often inconsistent. And the contract monitor for

39:02 Speaker 1: the CIA, so the one who was sort of the CIA,

39:05 Speaker 1: the scientific sort of monitor watching the funding from the CIA,

39:09 Speaker 1: is reporting this back to see to Langley, and Langley's

39:13 Speaker 1: kind of concerned because he's either really really really really

39:15 Speaker 1: good or he's not really really really good. And there's

39:21 Speaker 1: ultimately this session where he does sort of this crane session.

39:24 Speaker 1: And so ken Krass, who is the handler for the CIA,

39:30 Speaker 1: has this work analyzed by two individuals. Somebody who can

39:37 Speaker 1: speak to the fact that is it geographically correct, as

39:40 Speaker 1: he got all the geographical aspects correct, and then someone

39:43 Speaker 1: who I've sort of identified is what I would call

39:46 Speaker 1: it a risk manager. Is there a possibility that this

39:51 Speaker 1: information is been acquired from other sources or is being

39:57 Speaker 1: leaked to other sources, So that kind of risk manager,

40:00 Speaker 1: and that risk manager looks at it and says, again,

40:05 Speaker 1: he's either really really good or he's not really really good.

40:07 Speaker 4: And he's not really good.

40:09 Speaker 1: When he is there at SRI but he seems really

40:12 Speaker 1: really good when he goes to his apartment and he

40:14 Speaker 1: can phone in this information, which then raises the question

40:19 Speaker 1: is he could he possibly be an asset for the KGB.

40:23 Speaker 4: Right, which is it's understandable, understandable. Yeah.

40:28 Speaker 1: So at that point the CIA comes in and the

40:36 Speaker 1: shuts down temporarily. The work at SRI with inga Ingo

40:40 Speaker 1: goes back to New York. Everything's on hiatus, and they

40:43 Speaker 1: move Price to a different handler, and Price moves to

40:47 Speaker 1: West Virginia's taking a job as the president of a

40:50 Speaker 1: coal mine. There seems to be some sort of scientology

40:53 Speaker 1: connection with this coal mine, not the owner of it,

40:56 Speaker 1: but somebody high.

40:56 Speaker 4: Up in it.

40:58 Speaker 1: And he begins work with sort of research and development

41:00 Speaker 1: with a new group. And this new group is fascinatingly

41:05 Speaker 1: sort of connected with an assassination group, and they're also

41:09 Speaker 1: connected with trying to figure out like, if if information

41:14 Speaker 1: has gotten out, how damaging could it be to us?

41:19 Speaker 1: That's this group, Like what is the level of risk

41:23 Speaker 1: to us of the information that is in other hands?

41:27 Speaker 1: And also trying to figure out, well, which hands did

41:29 Speaker 1: it get to and how is it getting in or out?

41:31 Speaker 4: That's the group he's working with.

41:33 Speaker 1: And he's working with them, I guess for these six

41:39 Speaker 1: six months or so before they say they're going to.

41:44 Speaker 4: Go operational with him.

41:45 Speaker 1: And I think what they're doing is they're not feeding

41:48 Speaker 1: him correct information. They're feeding him things to try to

41:53 Speaker 1: sort out what where are you getting this information and

41:58 Speaker 1: where it's going, you know.

41:59 Speaker 4: So they're trying to kind of reverse engineer.

42:03 Speaker 1: Him, like what has happened, Like where's the information going?

42:07 Speaker 1: And what kind of information are you getting? And it's

42:11 Speaker 1: one last meeting where they ask him and this isn't

42:15 Speaker 1: a declassified document. They ask him, you can work off

42:19 Speaker 1: of just coordinates, right, and he goes, well, coordinates are okay,

42:23 Speaker 1: but I really could use like photographs and more descriptions

42:28 Speaker 1: and detail. And I think that that may have been

42:31 Speaker 1: one of the things that sealed his fate. That meeting

42:36 Speaker 1: is in April, and he died. He died that July.

42:41 Speaker 1: But the second thing that's really fascinating in that transcript

42:44 Speaker 1: is he talks about an upcoming interview with the National

42:48 Speaker 1: Inquirer and he says it's just really about remote viewing

42:54 Speaker 1: and you know, non non classified information and just you know,

42:57 Speaker 1: psychic stuff and my work with scientology and whatnot. But

43:02 Speaker 1: if your follower Project eighty two hundred, you know that

43:05 Speaker 1: in this intervening time back in in In, you know,

43:13 Speaker 1: eight months prior, he had handed how put off a

43:18 Speaker 1: series of drawings and notes regarding underground UFO basis, which

43:25 Speaker 1: Ingo later in an art Bell interviewed, said Price called

43:29 Speaker 1: human extraterrestrial cooperation basis.

43:33 Speaker 4: So similar to what we've been hearing lately from say

43:37 Speaker 4: David Grush, that there's some sort of agreement that was

43:43 Speaker 4: made and that we are working with this non human intelligence.

43:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so right, okay, very weird and yeah,

43:56 Speaker 1: so if you read Jackvelit's Forbidden Science two book, you

43:59 Speaker 1: know that during this time frame, Valet's trying to figure

44:03 Speaker 1: out is the US government working on UFOs and how

44:07 Speaker 1: it's just come back from a meeting in Washington. He

44:10 Speaker 1: and Halli is saying, while there are UFOs that are

44:15 Speaker 1: really extraterrestrial, and then there are things that are terrestrial

44:18 Speaker 1: in origin. So you know, we got some technology of

44:21 Speaker 1: some sort that we're developing. And then there's a program

44:26 Speaker 1: that is using my psychics so to figure these UFOs out,

44:30 Speaker 1: And my psychics would be Ngo and path Price. So

44:33 Speaker 1: we know that Ingo was involved and also remote viewing

44:36 Speaker 1: these you know, I think that if you kind of

44:40 Speaker 1: follow this narrative, I mean, in my interpretation anyway, is

44:44 Speaker 1: that National Enquirer interview Price may have strayed a little

44:49 Speaker 1: bit more from just remote viewing as a thing in

44:54 Speaker 1: scientology and maybe was a little frustrated and wanted to

44:59 Speaker 1: go into what we would called disclosure with the National Inquirer,

45:03 Speaker 1: and that ultimately may have been what his demise.

45:06 Speaker 4: Was, right, because we know now I'm not sure how

45:11 Speaker 4: many people know this, but the National Inquirer has with

45:16 Speaker 4: its roots. I think the person I don't remember his name,

45:20 Speaker 4: but there the person's father or someone was in the CIA,

45:25 Speaker 4: pretty sure, so this would have been a direct line essentially.

45:32 Speaker 1: Right, so they would have known if he was talking

45:34 Speaker 1: about something he shouldn't have been talking about. So, you know,

45:37 Speaker 1: I think ultimately that is what did him in, was

45:41 Speaker 1: that he may have just strayed a little bit too

45:44 Speaker 1: far into the realm that he shouldn't have. Where like

45:47 Speaker 1: Ingo and hallen Exer left off, this part is that

45:50 Speaker 1: after the programs shut down and Prices in West Virginia

45:53 Speaker 1: and Ingo's in New York and how still working on

45:56 Speaker 1: something else at Sri. Hubbard writes a letter to Inga

46:00 Speaker 1: and says that what you hal and Pat are working

46:04 Speaker 1: on is, you know, of the utmost importance. So this

46:08 Speaker 1: is in December, so they've been shut down for like

46:10 Speaker 1: six months. So clearly hal Ingo and Pat are still

46:14 Speaker 1: working on something.

46:15 Speaker 4: I believe that's disclosure of some sort.

46:18 Speaker 1: And Pat may have just gotten a little too ahead

46:21 Speaker 1: of the game, like frustrated, right, So the three of

46:23 Speaker 1: them may have had a game plan going and it's

46:29 Speaker 1: just monumentally difficult to go against a control system that

46:34 Speaker 1: doesn't want a narrative out and you know, or maybe

46:40 Speaker 1: just playing a little fast and loose with his information.

46:43 Speaker 4: Yeah, right, right, And you know that is a very

46:47 Speaker 4: interesting kind of question. Not it's not a question, but

46:54 Speaker 4: you know that following that train of thought, it makes

46:58 Speaker 4: complete sense by you know, Died. I don't want to

47:05 Speaker 4: say anything further than that, but that's you've shed some

47:10 Speaker 4: light on something for me, So thank you.

47:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you have to sort of put the pieces together.

47:16 Speaker 1: It wasn't you know that he was this spy or

47:19 Speaker 1: that spy. It just I feel like they were working

47:22 Speaker 1: on something of importance that somebody didn't want anybody to

47:27 Speaker 1: know about. And they were in very treacherous they were

47:30 Speaker 1: in very treacherous territory. I mean, you kind of have

47:33 Speaker 1: to watch the disclosure movement just to know that in

47:38 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies the intelligence community has this lockdown. They've

47:43 Speaker 1: had it locked down since the Robertson panel comes on

47:46 Speaker 1: this scene in the early nineteen fifties tells the CIA,

47:50 Speaker 1: here's the game plan. We're going to create a mass

47:53 Speaker 1: education program. We're going to use mass psychology, we're going

47:56 Speaker 1: to use the media. We're going to use movies, we're

47:58 Speaker 1: going to use programming. And then what.

48:01 Speaker 4: News mage means because at the time, you forget, yeah,

48:07 Speaker 4: you know, radio TV was super limited with three channels,

48:11 Speaker 4: four channels. Magazines they were they were that was celebrity

48:19 Speaker 4: gossip and and that kind of stuff and the juicy

48:22 Speaker 4: stuff that you know that that that it's like reality

48:26 Speaker 4: TV if it's day reality, you know, you know, so

48:31 Speaker 4: that's very interesting and and and if I'm I'm just

48:34 Speaker 4: gonna and now that I've already cut you off from

48:37 Speaker 4: your your your amazing story here, I just want to

48:41 Speaker 4: say that isn't it ironic too that after Roswell whatever

48:47 Speaker 4: happens at Roswell. If it's real, I think it is.

48:51 Speaker 4: Whatever happened there birthed the National Security Apparatus, so the

48:57 Speaker 4: CIA gets formed. So it's an it's my I at

49:00 Speaker 4: least believe that the the National Security, and the CIA,

49:07 Speaker 4: all these three letter agencies are pretty much birthed from

49:12 Speaker 4: the cover up and the attempt to cover up this information.

49:16 Speaker 4: So would it be their main goal to complete and

49:20 Speaker 4: control that narrative? I think so yeah, I.

49:22 Speaker 1: Mean, and so you have to understand that's the early fifties,

49:25 Speaker 1: So this is nineteen seventy, so they have twenty plus

49:28 Speaker 1: years of having this downpad. So you look at us

49:32 Speaker 1: seventy plus years later, do you think anything is really

49:36 Speaker 1: going to be different? You know That's why I kind

49:39 Speaker 1: of ultimately I came to the conclusion because you know,

49:44 Speaker 1: Ingo said, we're not alone on this planet. I said,

49:48 Speaker 1: I'm going to go on this journey. I'm going to

49:50 Speaker 1: go figure out what else is on this planet with us,

49:53 Speaker 1: And I document this in a book called Conjunction dot World,

49:57 Speaker 1: and ultimately came to the conclusion in that is Ingo saige.

50:01 Speaker 1: You know, if you follow the line of demons, it

50:05 Speaker 1: just brings you deeper into demonology.

50:07 Speaker 4: And I don't mean like evil entities.

50:09 Speaker 1: I just mean something that is you can't understand in

50:12 Speaker 1: something that is just like gnawing at you, and the

50:15 Speaker 1: more you try to try to unpackage it, the further

50:18 Speaker 1: you fall into that hole. Whereas what we should be

50:22 Speaker 1: doing is just, hey, I'm going to stop chasing you

50:26 Speaker 1: and trying to figure out you. Because Ingo said, we

50:28 Speaker 1: don't know who they are, we don't know what their

50:30 Speaker 1: agenda is, we don't know what they're.

50:31 Speaker 4: Doing with us.

50:33 Speaker 1: We have a very limited frame of reference that's been

50:35 Speaker 1: created for us. So what we should be working on

50:39 Speaker 1: is ourselves and enhancing ourselves because clearly they don't want

50:43 Speaker 1: us to enhance ourselves and that, but we should peel

50:46 Speaker 1: that away and work on that and work on developing

50:51 Speaker 1: telepathy so we can keep that message from coming in.

50:55 Speaker 1: And then this sort of something else, which you know,

50:57 Speaker 1: we were sort of talking about what Star Wars would

51:00 Speaker 1: call the force, how we can connect with us and

51:04 Speaker 1: develop our perceptual awareness SYS and enhance our intuition and

51:09 Speaker 1: our internal guides and our awareness and and perceive what

51:13 Speaker 1: is really there instead of what has been created for us.

51:17 Speaker 4: Right and and you know, it's it's it's really something

51:22 Speaker 4: that I have been again thinking about lately. And you

51:27 Speaker 4: know what, if the brain has developed these you know

51:32 Speaker 4: once you're when you're young and you're molded. You know,

51:36 Speaker 4: this is when you're molded by your parents. So if

51:39 Speaker 4: your parents have a very religious uh nature, you know

51:45 Speaker 4: you're gonna you'll you'll tend to follow that same path

51:49 Speaker 4: and see things, you know, in a similar way. Same

51:52 Speaker 4: as like the house I grew up not religious, I'm

51:55 Speaker 4: not very religious. You know, in this time that we're

52:00 Speaker 4: by our parents and the people around us, you know,

52:02 Speaker 4: we're kind of taught that the world is black and

52:04 Speaker 4: white and very mechanical, right years and what we talked

52:08 Speaker 4: about are things that we can see and not. Do

52:11 Speaker 4: you think that if that's the case, then the brain

52:16 Speaker 4: would develop in a way to only see the black

52:19 Speaker 4: and white, right because it only needs to see the

52:21 Speaker 4: black and white, but there are times when it needs more.

52:29 Speaker 4: So maybe this is what intuition is. Maybe this is

52:31 Speaker 4: what instinct is. Maybe this is what you know some

52:35 Speaker 4: of these telepathic or people who have visions, maybe that's

52:39 Speaker 4: what it is. Is they're picking up on the brain's

52:42 Speaker 4: picking up those senses that it has and it's throwing

52:46 Speaker 4: it to you, but you're not used to it, so

52:48 Speaker 4: we think it's a phenomenon. It's really just the brain's

52:51 Speaker 4: way of saying, you know, it can do much more.

52:53 Speaker 1: It could do much more, right, so you don't have

52:56 Speaker 1: you haven't built the pathways to interpret what this information.

53:01 Speaker 4: Is, right right. Yeah. I probably sounded like a crazy

53:04 Speaker 4: person right there, but I think you get where I'm

53:07 Speaker 4: coming from. Yeah, hard to talk about this kind of

53:09 Speaker 4: stuff like telepathy, psychic ability without kind of for me

53:15 Speaker 4: stumbling over my words because it's so new for me.

53:19 Speaker 4: And honestly, it it makes the field, makes the world

53:26 Speaker 4: feel a little bit more magical, and I just can't

53:30 Speaker 4: understand why more people don't want to see what's really there.

53:35 Speaker 1: Well, keeping in mind that along with this, you know,

53:38 Speaker 1: you talked about these these clandestine agencies being developed to

53:43 Speaker 1: control this narrative. You know, the other thing that they've

53:46 Speaker 1: been working on is mind control. They've been working on

53:49 Speaker 1: subliminal messaging. You know. I I after I started to

53:55 Speaker 1: sort of pay more attention to my environment, I was

54:00 Speaker 1: watching this. I was watching the movie about the dating

54:03 Speaker 1: show serial Killer. The serial killer that was on the

54:05 Speaker 1: dating show it's a new movie. And very early on

54:08 Speaker 1: I started to be like rooting for the serial killer,

54:11 Speaker 1: like rooting for him to kill people, and like, where

54:14 Speaker 1: is this feeling coming from? Oh my gosh, this is

54:18 Speaker 1: some subliminal thing that is happening where I am being

54:23 Speaker 1: bombarded with some sort of emotional content to root for

54:28 Speaker 1: something evil. Oh, I shut that off right away. And

54:32 Speaker 1: if it's it's as insidious as that, you can imagine

54:36 Speaker 1: the whole spectrum that is being just driven to us.

54:39 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I've ever heard of the ghost frequency?

54:43 Speaker 1: What is the ghost frequency?

54:45 Speaker 4: Oh, you're gonna love this. So the ghost frequency is

54:50 Speaker 4: it's an infrasonic frequency of about between eighteen and nineteen herts.

54:56 Speaker 4: And some people think that it causes you to the ghosts. Okay,

55:02 Speaker 4: were using.

55:03 Speaker 1: So person person might have person gen Persinger's work.

55:07 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so horror movies use this this a lot

55:13 Speaker 4: to subliminally scare you, to to get you into that

55:20 Speaker 4: that that state of mind, if you will. I think

55:25 Speaker 4: it's it's it's absolutely plausible that we are being influenced

55:32 Speaker 4: by media, especially when it's copy and paste media. Yeah, right, right,

55:38 Speaker 4: looking right.

55:40 Speaker 1: So the early MK ultra studies were really on hypnosis

55:44 Speaker 1: big part instead of little messaging, big part of drugs,

55:48 Speaker 1: but about a lot a lot of it was on

55:50 Speaker 1: like surgery, on temporal lobes and things like that. Until

55:55 Speaker 1: you didn't need to have you didn't need to torture anybody,

55:58 Speaker 1: You didn't need to use a lot of drugs and anybody.

56:01 Speaker 1: You could just subliminately send this message, these messages at

56:05 Speaker 1: frequencies like you're talking about. Think about now social media,

56:10 Speaker 1: where you're scrolling and when you're scrolling, you're kind of

56:14 Speaker 1: putting yourself into a little hypnotic trance, and how readily

56:18 Speaker 1: that information can then just be transmitted to you because

56:21 Speaker 1: of that.

56:23 Speaker 4: Yes, I want to talk about the moon. Okay, Ingo,

56:32 Speaker 4: I know, and I brought I was gaving this because

56:35 Speaker 4: I find this to be one of the most interesting

56:40 Speaker 4: topics that people are discussing it. But I don't think

56:43 Speaker 4: not enough that so Ingo famously said, I am not

56:49 Speaker 4: the first to see that we are not alone. So

56:52 Speaker 4: he was tasked to remote you the moon, so things

56:56 Speaker 4: like tracks on the moon, like from sort of tractors,

57:00 Speaker 4: and he saw humanoids doing work on the moon, essentially

57:03 Speaker 4: mining it. Can you tell us about this?

57:07 Speaker 1: Why can only tell you what is in his book

57:09 Speaker 1: Penetration that he talks about remote viewing the dark side

57:14 Speaker 1: of the Moon and seeing structures and domes and things

57:17 Speaker 1: of that nature. And it is just fascinating to comment

57:24 Speaker 1: that not long after his remote viewing session of the Moon,

57:29 Speaker 1: he was tasked to or he says, he's just sporadically,

57:32 Speaker 1: I think he was tasked with Harold Sherman to remote

57:36 Speaker 1: view Mars where he saw very similar things on Mars.

57:40 Speaker 1: And this is in the mid nineteen seventies, so yeah,

57:45 Speaker 1: he saw activity there. But he says, this.

57:48 Speaker 4: Is not new.

57:49 Speaker 1: Anybody with a telescope can see anomalies happening on the Moon,

57:53 Speaker 1: like strange lights and moving objects. This is and it's

57:57 Speaker 1: not just relegated to the dark side of the moon.

58:00 Speaker 1: Anybody with a telescope who takes time can see there's something,

58:04 Speaker 1: something's happening up.

58:06 Speaker 4: There, right, and it's just it's it's for me, like

58:11 Speaker 4: the the moon is an interesting subject because first off,

58:15 Speaker 4: it's tidal locked, so we only, like you said, there's

58:19 Speaker 4: a dark side, the side we don't see and the

58:23 Speaker 4: side that we do see, and that is interesting because

58:27 Speaker 4: we look around at other moons in the solar system,

58:29 Speaker 4: and they're not. They don't they're not. They're not doing that,

58:33 Speaker 4: nor are they perfectly this the perfect amount of distance

58:37 Speaker 4: away and sides to eclipse the sun perfectly. So there's

58:44 Speaker 4: a lot of strange things about our moon and could

58:47 Speaker 4: it be a satellite of some sort or you know,

58:50 Speaker 4: artificial even insight. Yeah, so Inga's Inga actually penetrations.

58:57 Speaker 1: His book Penetration is broken into three parts. The first

59:00 Speaker 1: part is you know, all his adventures, and the second

59:04 Speaker 1: part is on how the moon he believes is an

59:07 Speaker 1: artificial satellite purposely placed there right right, right right, and

59:13 Speaker 1: then the third is why we need to develop telepathy.

59:16 Speaker 4: Right.

59:18 Speaker 1: But you know, he makes the case that there's too many,

59:21 Speaker 1: as you just illuminated, too many strange coincidences, that market

59:28 Speaker 1: is unique compared to any other kind of orbitating celestial

59:33 Speaker 1: body that's considered a moon, to any other celestial body,

59:37 Speaker 1: which are they're more alike each other. And then you

59:41 Speaker 1: have this one anomally called our moon that just is

59:44 Speaker 1: perfectly done to create life on Earth. It creates and

59:50 Speaker 1: keeps life on Earth, which is so fascinating. And he

59:54 Speaker 1: also talks about it being a hollow body as well.

59:57 Speaker 4: Yes, and now so famously did the the experiment where

1:00:02 Speaker 4: they dropped. I don't know if what it was, but

1:00:05 Speaker 4: it was I.

1:00:05 Speaker 1: Think they under the lander that the landing equipment, yeah.

1:00:10 Speaker 4: Right right, and the moon rang like a bell like reverberation. No,

1:00:15 Speaker 4: I didn't actually ring like a bell, but it reverberated

1:00:18 Speaker 4: as if it were hollow. I did this for up

1:00:22 Speaker 4: to three hours, so you know. And then and then

1:00:26 Speaker 4: not to mention that there are religious texts that in

1:00:29 Speaker 4: some parts of the world that talk about a time

1:00:32 Speaker 4: before the moon and a time after the moon. So

1:00:36 Speaker 4: I just that is that's something I want to look

1:00:39 Speaker 4: more into, and I think everyone should look more into,

1:00:42 Speaker 4: because again it is it. It's like perfectly sized, it's

1:00:46 Speaker 4: perfect distance away, it does all everything. The chances of

1:00:52 Speaker 4: its existence are like one and a number that's incomprehensible

1:00:56 Speaker 4: to us, right, it's the odds of it being all

1:01:01 Speaker 4: of these things are just it's infinitesimally smile. So it

1:01:07 Speaker 4: intrigues me.

1:01:09 Speaker 1: It is I think Inngo we found in his archives

1:01:14 Speaker 1: this chapter on Mars that we put into that special edition,

1:01:17 Speaker 1: the updated special Edition and penetration, and I think what

1:01:21 Speaker 1: he would you know, obviously, he's not going to write

1:01:25 Speaker 1: something that's going to be censored, right, So the stories

1:01:27 Speaker 1: themselves are all allegories. But I think if he had

1:01:30 Speaker 1: actually been able to include Mars in this discussion of

1:01:34 Speaker 1: the Moon, it would have been a grander theory for

1:01:37 Speaker 1: him that there was something on Mars, there was some

1:01:41 Speaker 1: sort of holocaust on Mars that led to some sort

1:01:44 Speaker 1: of evacuation. But if you're Marson and you're coming to Earth,

1:01:48 Speaker 1: it's a radically different environment, right, that something's going to

1:01:53 Speaker 1: have to be reprogrammed or re engineered for you to

1:01:56 Speaker 1: be able to live on Earth or have some sort

1:02:00 Speaker 1: of population on Earth. And so I think I think

1:02:03 Speaker 1: this is me that he saw the Moon as some

1:02:06 Speaker 1: sort of station somehow related to Mars.

1:02:10 Speaker 4: It's that is that's amazing, because we see evidence that

1:02:15 Speaker 4: something happened that the huge scar across the Martian surface,

1:02:20 Speaker 4: something clearly happened there. And then we look at ourselves,

1:02:24 Speaker 4: look at just look in the mirror. Our bodies are

1:02:27 Speaker 4: are more in tune with the Martian day and night.

1:02:31 Speaker 4: We shed our you know, if you believe in the evolution,

1:02:35 Speaker 4: we shed our fur when we need pelts and furs

1:02:40 Speaker 4: in the winter. We have back problems, We're the only

1:02:43 Speaker 4: species to get sunburns, and all of these things start

1:02:47 Speaker 4: to add up and make you really wonder if we're

1:02:49 Speaker 4: not aliens ourselves.

1:02:52 Speaker 1: Well they do. There are many anthropologists cannot make the

1:02:55 Speaker 1: connection for how Homo sapiens just suddenly appeared. It's not

1:02:59 Speaker 1: just you know, a conspiracy, that's you know, anthropologists even

1:03:03 Speaker 1: struggle to explain how this happened. And so I think

1:03:08 Speaker 1: what we've lost is the ability to question right. It

1:03:15 Speaker 1: doesn't met you know, we might be wrong, we might

1:03:17 Speaker 1: be completely off base, but we are not allowed to

1:03:21 Speaker 1: question or deviate from the narrative. And I think that

1:03:24 Speaker 1: is what it's dangerous.

1:03:25 Speaker 4: And when you do, you're labeled a kook, you're discredited.

1:03:32 Speaker 4: We see, we saw this with David Grosh. Now David Grush,

1:03:35 Speaker 4: I only bring you upposite an example because he's, you know,

1:03:38 Speaker 4: someone who came forward as recently and they immediately tried

1:03:43 Speaker 4: to discredit him using his PTSD from being in a

1:03:47 Speaker 4: war zone, which I think is super sympathetic and just

1:03:50 Speaker 4: goes to show how dirty these people are. This deep

1:03:54 Speaker 4: date you know, whoever they are. And Daniel in a

1:03:57 Speaker 4: way Center for Why famously gave that speech who said

1:04:01 Speaker 4: that you know, there is uh, this deep state. They

1:04:05 Speaker 4: have their own ways of fundraising, their own army, their

1:04:08 Speaker 4: own navy, and their own agenda, and they operate above

1:04:12 Speaker 4: the law, you know. And and I think we really

1:04:14 Speaker 4: need to start looking and looking around us and seeing

1:04:19 Speaker 4: that we have been placed in some sort of societal prison.

1:04:24 Speaker 1: Uh.

1:04:25 Speaker 4: And it's been it seems like implanted on us. Yeah.

1:04:30 Speaker 1: I mean, if you if you, if your main goal

1:04:33 Speaker 1: is mind control, and that is what you have brought

1:04:37 Speaker 1: over with the Nazis. I mean, the Nazis started with it,

1:04:41 Speaker 1: and you've brought that over.

1:04:42 Speaker 4: Many of the scientists who.

1:04:43 Speaker 1: Came over with Operation pay per Clip were you know,

1:04:45 Speaker 1: doing mind control experiments in the concentration camp. And that's

1:04:49 Speaker 1: your foundation. You're going to do something with it.

1:04:53 Speaker 4: Yeah, You're going to do something with it. Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:56 Speaker 1: So so that is why I think it's important. I mean,

1:05:01 Speaker 1: what I ultimately did is I really don't dive much

1:05:05 Speaker 1: into social media, very cognizant about just don't even watch

1:05:10 Speaker 1: the news. Cognizant about movies. I mean, like I am

1:05:14 Speaker 1: down to just documentaries and comedy shows.

1:05:18 Speaker 4: Yea wow. Yeah, let me ask you a question. Yeah,

1:05:25 Speaker 4: you being who you are. Have you ever seen anything?

1:05:30 Speaker 1: Well, that's what I write about in my book. So

1:05:32 Speaker 1: I write about that I wanted to figure out. So

1:05:34 Speaker 1: I went to different places, oh where things of an

1:05:38 Speaker 1: anomalous phenomenon happen. And I talk about because there were

1:05:44 Speaker 1: things at three fifty seven Bowery, that's the building Ingo's

1:05:48 Speaker 1: building from the nineteen seventies, that there were a lot

1:05:51 Speaker 1: of entities at three fifty seven, And so I talk

1:05:54 Speaker 1: about that coming into contact with them because they were

1:05:58 Speaker 1: they played ango, you know, they did you when you

1:06:03 Speaker 1: open up and you start explanding your awareness and perceptual systems,

1:06:07 Speaker 1: you are going to run into things. He said that,

1:06:11 Speaker 1: And so it's very important to remember that we don't again,

1:06:15 Speaker 1: we don't know who they are, and a little bit

1:06:18 Speaker 1: of caution when interacting with these things might be prudent,

1:06:23 Speaker 1: right Like if you're going into a neighborhood you've never

1:06:26 Speaker 1: been in before, you might be a little like, Okay,

1:06:30 Speaker 1: I might need to know a little bit about more

1:06:32 Speaker 1: where I'm going into before I just start, you know,

1:06:34 Speaker 1: opening up my doors to everybody, because you don't know

1:06:38 Speaker 1: if everybody, if these things have our best interest in her,

1:06:41 Speaker 1: which I don't believe they do, right, So a little

1:06:45 Speaker 1: caution before doing that. But you are going to run

1:06:47 Speaker 1: into them. It's sort of like again the James Web.

1:06:50 Speaker 1: You're starting, You're going to start to see different things,

1:06:53 Speaker 1: but you don't really have a roadmap. It's like going

1:06:56 Speaker 1: into a jungle and you've never seen anything before. Like

1:06:58 Speaker 1: you want to touch everything, right, but you shouldn't touch everything.

1:07:03 Speaker 1: You should just maybe kind of sort out and examine

1:07:05 Speaker 1: it before interacting with it first. Yeah, So there were

1:07:09 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of entities at three fifty seven,

1:07:12 Speaker 1: and I did go to places like Dudicola Rock in

1:07:16 Speaker 1: North Carolina, which is which has quite a history as

1:07:20 Speaker 1: being a portal. So I had experience with that. I

1:07:24 Speaker 1: had an inadvertent experience with a time slip.

1:07:27 Speaker 4: I didn't even know what was happening.

1:07:29 Speaker 1: I thought we were I was actually at an Easter

1:07:32 Speaker 1: brunch with my son and had this sort of time

1:07:37 Speaker 1: slip experience. We both thought we were hallucinating. Was just crazy.

1:07:40 Speaker 1: Things kept changing around it, the people kept changing around us.

1:07:43 Speaker 4: It was crazy. I talk about it. What is that?

1:07:46 Speaker 4: What I'm like missing time? That doesn't sound like missing time.

1:07:50 Speaker 1: It's not missing time. So what is fascinating is this.

1:07:54 Speaker 1: This location is called Mountain Lake Lodge. It's in southwestern Virginia,

1:08:00 Speaker 1: and what I discovered is the whole building is made

1:08:04 Speaker 1: of a sandstone with a lot of courts in it,

1:08:07 Speaker 1: and the ground beneath it has got layers and layers

1:08:10 Speaker 1: and layers of quarts. And there are those who are

1:08:13 Speaker 1: studying in geology. They're studying the effects of courts with

1:08:19 Speaker 1: what we would call sort of anomalous phenomenon, so as

1:08:23 Speaker 1: something that is able to record and hold memories, which

1:08:29 Speaker 1: is really fascinating. So a lot of times when you

1:08:32 Speaker 1: look at structures and people report ghosts. There was actually

1:08:36 Speaker 1: a really unique study that I found where a graduate

1:08:39 Speaker 1: student took like a ghost hunting show and you know,

1:08:45 Speaker 1: knowing that some of it is for entertainment, so a

1:08:47 Speaker 1: lot of it was maybe not made up, you know,

1:08:49 Speaker 1: made up and not real, but still kind of overlaid.

1:08:52 Speaker 1: Where they went with the geographical and geological makeup of

1:08:58 Speaker 1: that area and where there were high incidences were like

1:09:02 Speaker 1: where there were high levels of courts, and sort.

1:09:06 Speaker 4: Of theorizing that maybe what people.

1:09:08 Speaker 1: See as ghosts may just be sort of a replane

1:09:12 Speaker 1: of an energy, like some something traumatic happened that imprinted

1:09:17 Speaker 1: a huge amount of energy on the environment. And then

1:09:20 Speaker 1: people who are operating in a broader spectrum are then

1:09:24 Speaker 1: picking up this and it's replaying like a movie to them.

1:09:29 Speaker 4: Oh my god, right, you have no idea, how how weird?

1:09:34 Speaker 4: This just got yeah, and you'll holy shit. So so

1:09:44 Speaker 4: this is a theory that I've posed recently. I'm making

1:09:49 Speaker 4: a documentary myself a homemaker, and there's three places in

1:09:55 Speaker 4: Massachusetts where I live, Salem and h Dudley Road and

1:10:01 Speaker 4: the Bridgewater Triangle. All three are hot spots where these

1:10:08 Speaker 4: phenomena seem to converge. They all have courts and they

1:10:13 Speaker 4: all have these human atrocities. So the Bridge out A

1:10:17 Speaker 4: Triangle had King Phillip's War, Dudley Road had a lot

1:10:23 Speaker 4: of Native fighting, and then the Sale obviously has the

1:10:26 Speaker 4: Witch Trials. Uh. The title of the film is called

1:10:30 Speaker 4: Cursed Echoes because that's exactly what I think is happening.

1:10:33 Speaker 4: I think what people see as quote unquote ghosts is

1:10:38 Speaker 4: really just the land showing its memory.

1:10:42 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:10:43 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely must define the theme of the documentary that

1:10:49 Speaker 4: I'm working on.

1:10:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, check out my criticity or yeah, it's great.

1:10:56 Speaker 1: So conjunction dot World. So I've put a lot. I've

1:10:58 Speaker 1: put that research paper on there and some other documents

1:11:01 Speaker 1: about stone memory theory. It's called stone memory theory. Really fascinating.

1:11:07 Speaker 1: So the way Angle explained it to me is like

1:11:09 Speaker 1: he said, there's no ghosts, right, there's no such thing

1:11:11 Speaker 1: as ghosts, because I've had an encounter in when I

1:11:15 Speaker 1: lived with.

1:11:15 Speaker 4: Him three times.

1:11:16 Speaker 1: So we talked about the first time, but the last

1:11:17 Speaker 1: time I was commuting to New York and I had

1:11:21 Speaker 1: an experience on a train where I just.

1:11:23 Speaker 4: Saw something repeat.

1:11:25 Speaker 1: And he explained it to me, as you know, like

1:11:28 Speaker 1: the same thing. There was some sort of energy trail,

1:11:30 Speaker 1: something happened that ignited some sort of entrapment of a

1:11:38 Speaker 1: loop of energy, and that's what we're seeing when we

1:11:41 Speaker 1: see ghosts, Like the same thing is like the same

1:11:43 Speaker 1: person walks down.

1:11:44 Speaker 4: The stairs, or it's the same knocking or whatever it

1:11:47 Speaker 4: might be.

1:11:48 Speaker 1: It is this kind of replaying of this energy loop

1:11:51 Speaker 1: that people are picking it so they're able the wider

1:11:54 Speaker 1: their spectrum, their frequency spectrum, they're operating like James Webb,

1:11:58 Speaker 1: They're going to pick up these memories that have been

1:12:00 Speaker 1: implanted in the land or in the stone for example

1:12:05 Speaker 1: with quartz.

1:12:06 Speaker 4: I think the.

1:12:07 Speaker 1: Researcher said also streams nearby were also could.

1:12:10 Speaker 4: Be attributed to it as well. That the aspect of it. Yeah,

1:12:14 Speaker 4: so you do believe there are hot spots hot spots.

1:12:17 Speaker 4: You probably coat there's something to do with energy and

1:12:24 Speaker 4: maybe you know different that could differ, you know, whether

1:12:28 Speaker 4: it's electromagnetic or you know, from different different spectrums. But

1:12:35 Speaker 4: something's different in these places than you know, just your

1:12:40 Speaker 4: average area that I don't know doesn't have this weird

1:12:44 Speaker 4: stuff going on the way we're stuff going on. Yeah.

1:12:46 Speaker 1: So so in terms of my time slip thing, the

1:12:49 Speaker 1: way I've come to understand it is that time moves differently,

1:12:55 Speaker 1: and the person is can interact with different time periods,

1:13:00 Speaker 1: not like radically different, but you know, like a few

1:13:02 Speaker 1: minutes or an hour.

1:13:03 Speaker 4: Something is happening.

1:13:04 Speaker 1: And that's what I feel happened to us is that

1:13:07 Speaker 1: the stone recorded these memories, and we were experiencing these

1:13:12 Speaker 1: memories different like it would go flip back and forth

1:13:16 Speaker 1: between when we were seeing the memories and then when

1:13:19 Speaker 1: we were seeing actual things happen, and it was just

1:13:22 Speaker 1: it was it's just really wacky. Like my son and

1:13:24 Speaker 1: I had different experiences and who we interacted with, And

1:13:28 Speaker 1: like I'd look over at a table and it would

1:13:30 Speaker 1: be six and then twenty minutes later it would be

1:13:32 Speaker 1: four people, and I'm like, what happened to the six people?

1:13:36 Speaker 1: So that were there, there was a family or you

1:13:38 Speaker 1: know that time just moved very interestingly. So I think

1:13:41 Speaker 1: there is a dynamic with time too that I don't

1:13:44 Speaker 1: quite understand.

1:13:45 Speaker 4: But yeah, right, and we all know that we see

1:13:49 Speaker 4: time as linear because that's how we experience it based value.

1:13:53 Speaker 4: But that is that's it's not real. It's it's not

1:13:57 Speaker 4: a real thing. It's something. It's it's a force, just

1:14:00 Speaker 4: like gravity is or you know space space time. Uh,

1:14:06 Speaker 4: there's something there, And I think I think that's that's

1:14:11 Speaker 4: very interesting. That's a very interesting experience. Yeah.

1:14:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, So with time and a portal and entities, and

1:14:19 Speaker 1: I went like looking for UFO and I feel like

1:14:23 Speaker 1: I called the division quest because I feel like everybody.

1:14:25 Speaker 4: Keeps looking for them.

1:14:26 Speaker 1: It's like their vision quest, and you never really get

1:14:28 Speaker 1: where you're wanting to go. But I did have some

1:14:30 Speaker 1: sort of vision quest experience and then ultimately sort of

1:14:35 Speaker 1: sort of like a strange magical encounter which I talk

1:14:38 Speaker 1: about that. I went to try to figure out what

1:14:43 Speaker 1: I was thinking was the land was the driver of

1:14:46 Speaker 1: these things, like you and your documentary right, that somehow

1:14:49 Speaker 1: the land was responsible for these things. Was so I

1:14:54 Speaker 1: was trying to go to places where the where things

1:14:57 Speaker 1: happened because of the land themselves. And I ended up

1:15:03 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, and I was thinking that I was going

1:15:07 Speaker 1: to go to one place, and before it opened, I

1:15:09 Speaker 1: was waiting in another place. And I didn't even realize

1:15:11 Speaker 1: that this was like a paranormal hotspot. Like the whole time,

1:15:14 Speaker 1: I didn't even realize it, which is which was fascinating.

1:15:19 Speaker 1: But I read an author who who said, people like

1:15:24 Speaker 1: to go to this location use Wiji boards.

1:15:27 Speaker 4: It's like an old cemetery.

1:15:29 Speaker 1: And he's like, people, they already have enough doorways into us,

1:15:33 Speaker 1: like using a Wigi boards, like just kicking a door

1:15:36 Speaker 1: open for them.

1:15:37 Speaker 4: You guys are like idiots.

1:15:39 Speaker 1: And I realized, oh that that was That was like

1:15:42 Speaker 1: what my vision quest of all this was. So yeah,

1:15:45 Speaker 1: so very different kind of experiences at each one of them.

1:15:50 Speaker 4: So you've had a quite a remarkable You've had quite

1:15:56 Speaker 4: a few of these experiences, ranging from all types of

1:16:02 Speaker 4: different phenomena which.

1:16:04 Speaker 1: Different types, And honestly, there was a part of me

1:16:07 Speaker 1: like was is this real?

1:16:09 Speaker 4: Could this be real? Sure? Like? Am I just imaginative?

1:16:14 Speaker 1: And I'm just like putting things together because that's how

1:16:17 Speaker 1: I want them to put together. And as I was

1:16:20 Speaker 1: finishing my book and thinking about the historical tidpits that

1:16:24 Speaker 1: I put in there, so that's a really fascinating section

1:16:26 Speaker 1: of the book which talks about like how I think

1:16:30 Speaker 1: the technology came, how the Nazis got to technology, and

1:16:33 Speaker 1: how I think we got it from the Nazis, our

1:16:35 Speaker 1: understanding of extraterrestrial and interdimensional entities and the history of

1:16:41 Speaker 1: a remote viewing, what have you. So I was really

1:16:44 Speaker 1: working on that and I went to my apartment's workout

1:16:50 Speaker 1: room really small, and I always just use the elliptical

1:16:53 Speaker 1: machines and they face a window, but the back of

1:16:55 Speaker 1: them is to like the room proper, right, and then

1:16:58 Speaker 1: there's a little workout bench work right right behind them,

1:17:01 Speaker 1: so your back is to anybody who's like coming into

1:17:03 Speaker 1: the room or anybody's in the room. And when I

1:17:06 Speaker 1: got to the room, I could see that there was

1:17:08 Speaker 1: a guy in there, and immediately I had these like

1:17:11 Speaker 1: huge bad vibes just everything was off, and I unfortunately

1:17:15 Speaker 1: attributed it to Okay, well there's a guy in there

1:17:18 Speaker 1: working out, right, it's small space, he's going to be

1:17:21 Speaker 1: behind me, he's got access to waights. You know, the

1:17:23 Speaker 1: things that you might put through your mind. Did he

1:17:25 Speaker 1: hit me over the head? Could something bad happen? No

1:17:28 Speaker 1: one's going to know. It's just an unsettling feeling. But

1:17:32 Speaker 1: it was really worse than that. But I pushed on, like, hey,

1:17:35 Speaker 1: he's just a guy working out. You just need to

1:17:37 Speaker 1: get over this going there and do judging him, right, yeah,

1:17:40 Speaker 1: Like why are you judging him? He's just in there

1:17:42 Speaker 1: doing his own workout. He's you know, obviously got in there.

1:17:46 Speaker 1: It's Keith had to get in there. So I started

1:17:50 Speaker 1: in immediately. So he was behind me to my left,

1:17:53 Speaker 1: like right behind me to my left, but immediately from

1:17:55 Speaker 1: my right I felt this force come it and I

1:17:59 Speaker 1: was like had my hand on like one of the handles,

1:18:01 Speaker 1: and I was like about to put my phone down,

1:18:05 Speaker 1: and it literally picked me up and I still see

1:18:09 Speaker 1: myself in the air, and it slammed me down and

1:18:13 Speaker 1: I landed like on my left side and on my

1:18:16 Speaker 1: and I was right underneath where he was working out

1:18:19 Speaker 1: and he never stopped, like lifting weights was like doing

1:18:23 Speaker 1: virus like these kind of things. And when that first stopped,

1:18:28 Speaker 1: even though like I knew, like the ground like my

1:18:31 Speaker 1: phone went flying, my earphone case went flying, I landed

1:18:35 Speaker 1: right underneath him and he never stopped, and I was like,

1:18:38 Speaker 1: oh my god, I think they're connected, Like this entity

1:18:41 Speaker 1: must be connected to him. Like something picked me up,

1:18:44 Speaker 1: and I just like like walked like crawling the floor

1:18:48 Speaker 1: and picked up all my stuff and like scrambled back

1:18:50 Speaker 1: up onto the the olliptical. I was like, you're not

1:18:54 Speaker 1: going to scare me, Like I am not going to

1:18:56 Speaker 1: be afraid of you. I'm not going to give in

1:18:59 Speaker 1: to this fear whatever it is. And I could feel

1:19:02 Speaker 1: the just negativity from that moment on, but like and

1:19:05 Speaker 1: I was in pain, but I just pressed on for

1:19:08 Speaker 1: twenty more minutes and then I laughed. But it was like,

1:19:10 Speaker 1: you are not going to be the boss of me

1:19:14 Speaker 1: in this situation. I know you're way more powerful than me.

1:19:18 Speaker 1: I get that because you picked me up, like you

1:19:20 Speaker 1: literally picked.

1:19:21 Speaker 4: Me up.

1:19:23 Speaker 1: And you slammed me down. And it was after that

1:19:25 Speaker 1: moment where I was like, it's actually real, but it's not.

1:19:29 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I got out and I would go back

1:19:32 Speaker 1: because I was saying, I don't want you to.

1:19:37 Speaker 4: I don't want to be.

1:19:38 Speaker 1: Live in fear and I and I actually found so

1:19:41 Speaker 1: Ingo and I would many times go walking in the

1:19:45 Speaker 1: streets of New York and look for pennies and he

1:19:49 Speaker 1: was like, everybody discards pennies.

1:19:52 Speaker 4: And nobody keeps them.

1:19:54 Speaker 1: And we would come back with like lots of pennies.

1:19:56 Speaker 1: And he had a nice silver tray in his desk

1:19:59 Speaker 1: of like it was full of just pennies that you find.

1:20:01 Speaker 1: So after he passed away, I started to find pennies,

1:20:04 Speaker 1: you know, just at times, like encouraging times. If I

1:20:07 Speaker 1: was kind of down or thinking about something, I'd find

1:20:10 Speaker 1: a penny.

1:20:10 Speaker 4: But this is something that is happens to people sometimes.

1:20:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I'd find find coins. And I went

1:20:18 Speaker 1: into the workout room and there were two pennies right

1:20:22 Speaker 1: where I had been slammed down in the workout room.

1:20:27 Speaker 1: And I took a photo of this. So it's not

1:20:30 Speaker 1: like like that's a little.

1:20:32 Speaker 4: Strange, like that is different this one's actions where he Now,

1:20:37 Speaker 4: I know people are rude, but if a woman literally

1:20:41 Speaker 4: gets picked up and slammed, even if she just falls.

1:20:45 Speaker 4: I'm going to go and be like, are you okay?

1:20:47 Speaker 4: You know, you know, help up? You know, is there

1:20:51 Speaker 4: anything I can do called ambulance? You know, you would

1:20:54 Speaker 4: break routine. This guy just continues his it just kept going.

1:20:58 Speaker 4: He just kept going.

1:20:59 Speaker 1: And that's when I knew that they were maybe he

1:21:01 Speaker 1: was connected in some capacity to this thing, because there's

1:21:04 Speaker 1: just no way that, like your bench is on the ground,

1:21:08 Speaker 1: you're going to feel when there's some vibration on the

1:21:12 Speaker 1: ground that is hard because I keep down hard, never

1:21:16 Speaker 1: broke stride.

1:21:17 Speaker 4: And I'm just weird, so weird.

1:21:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So I did it for I did it

1:21:24 Speaker 1: for a few months and then I just, you know

1:21:26 Speaker 1: that PSTD just kind of me like I still don't

1:21:29 Speaker 1: know what's behind me kind of thing. I think I'm

1:21:31 Speaker 1: just going to join a club where there's a lot

1:21:33 Speaker 1: of people and I can be around a lot of

1:21:36 Speaker 1: people because I can't continue to just always have it

1:21:40 Speaker 1: in the back of my mind that something could happen.

1:21:43 Speaker 1: I don't want to live like that. So no, I'm

1:21:46 Speaker 1: not going to stop working out, but I'm just going

1:21:48 Speaker 1: to be more cognizant of when I feel that something

1:21:53 Speaker 1: is not right in the environment. And I'm not going

1:21:56 Speaker 1: to attribute it. I'm not going to analyze it from

1:21:59 Speaker 1: my oh everything's okay kind of thing. I'm really going

1:22:03 Speaker 1: to listen to my gut. I'm really going to pay

1:22:05 Speaker 1: attention to when my body is speaking to me about

1:22:08 Speaker 1: something that's.

1:22:09 Speaker 4: Not right right and that, and that's something I think

1:22:12 Speaker 4: more people need to do. It's you know, people call it,

1:22:16 Speaker 4: you know, trust your gut and and all these things.

1:22:19 Speaker 4: We have these phrases, and it's like, guys, something there's

1:22:26 Speaker 4: something that's being told right with these kind of with

1:22:30 Speaker 4: this black and white world that we're sold, but the

1:22:34 Speaker 4: gray that we live in, right, there's there's the difference.

1:22:38 Speaker 4: So you you you, that's a really odd experience to

1:22:42 Speaker 4: be in gray. You can pick up and slam down

1:22:44 Speaker 4: by an invisible force, start asking yourself what the fuck

1:22:49 Speaker 4: is going on?

1:22:50 Speaker 1: But something is there?

1:22:51 Speaker 4: Right?

1:22:51 Speaker 1: And so for me, when you think you hear these

1:22:55 Speaker 1: abduction cases, yeah, I absolutely one hundred believe them where

1:23:02 Speaker 1: something physical happens to them. I saw it because it

1:23:06 Speaker 1: happened to me. But I was present in my body.

1:23:09 Speaker 1: I was always conscious. There was never sort of an

1:23:11 Speaker 1: intervening period where I lost time or wasn't aware of anything,

1:23:16 Speaker 1: so I figure, if something can interact with me, and

1:23:20 Speaker 1: it wasn't the first time. My first story is in

1:23:23 Speaker 1: the book, I do talk about interacting with something that

1:23:27 Speaker 1: I later figured out was an entity.

1:23:29 Speaker 4: I mean it interacted with me like a human. It

1:23:32 Speaker 4: handed me a piece of paper, so it was able to.

1:23:35 Speaker 1: Materialize in hand me something I thought it was a

1:23:39 Speaker 1: human being.

1:23:40 Speaker 4: It this thing showed up in.

1:23:42 Speaker 1: A car, it got out of the car, and it

1:23:46 Speaker 1: interacted with me. So I obviously know that they are

1:23:50 Speaker 1: very good at mimicking humans.

1:23:54 Speaker 4: There's always something that's off.

1:23:56 Speaker 1: Something that's off, like for this individual was very very tall,

1:24:00 Speaker 1: but he was mistressed like things from different decades, and

1:24:03 Speaker 1: it waddled like he like he was like very athletic,

1:24:06 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, this guy looks, you know,

1:24:08 Speaker 1: like he might like go on the a walk with

1:24:11 Speaker 1: us kind of thing, until he waddled, and then I

1:24:14 Speaker 1: was like, that's not normal.

1:24:16 Speaker 4: There's something not normal about this.

1:24:18 Speaker 1: But again I was in a situation where I was

1:24:21 Speaker 1: more afraid that you know, we were in a in

1:24:24 Speaker 1: an isolated spot and had we come across something maybe

1:24:27 Speaker 1: we shouldn't be a part of, like is human trafficking

1:24:29 Speaker 1: offering is or is there some like drug trade going on?

1:24:33 Speaker 1: Are we in somebody's territory? All those kind of analytical

1:24:37 Speaker 1: things that you pushed for. So I wasn't even thinking paranormal.

1:24:40 Speaker 1: So I recognize they can interact with us. They can

1:24:45 Speaker 1: manipulate things in our environment, and they can manipulate us,

1:24:49 Speaker 1: which gives a lot to me, a lot of credence

1:24:52 Speaker 1: to the stories of abductees.

1:24:54 Speaker 4: Right, And I want to ask you something. Yeah, a

1:25:00 Speaker 4: lot of now, a lot of what you just talked

1:25:03 Speaker 4: about sounds demonic. Do you think that there's that that

1:25:10 Speaker 4: we need to know how to separate that there's a

1:25:14 Speaker 4: fine line between aliens and demons? Right, at least in

1:25:22 Speaker 4: my mind, they're they're separate things. But is it are they?

1:25:27 Speaker 1: You know what I came to a conclusion of, right

1:25:31 Speaker 1: is the way I've come to understand it because I

1:25:33 Speaker 1: had a lot of help too, Like things just came

1:25:36 Speaker 1: together in the right way, or those pennies were there,

1:25:39 Speaker 1: or you know, I feel like, is there good in

1:25:42 Speaker 1: the world?

1:25:43 Speaker 4: Is it helping you? Is there evil in the world?

1:25:46 Speaker 1: Is it against you? In the way I've kind of

1:25:48 Speaker 1: like articulated, is you know the Hunger Games makes the

1:25:51 Speaker 1: movie The Hunger Games, and you know that there they

1:25:55 Speaker 1: send these two people from each section to go compete

1:26:00 Speaker 1: and they have to kill each other, right, and the

1:26:01 Speaker 1: victors are the one the boy and the girl who

1:26:04 Speaker 1: are left right. And but during that time, sponsors send

1:26:09 Speaker 1: things like medicine or extra weapons, right, right. So imagine

1:26:15 Speaker 1: if you're in the Hunger Games arena and it's all manipulated, right,

1:26:18 Speaker 1: The arena is manipulated.

1:26:20 Speaker 4: Everything is staged.

1:26:21 Speaker 1: Everything is staged. But imagine and they know they're there.

1:26:25 Speaker 1: But imagine if you're in the arena and you don't

1:26:28 Speaker 1: know it's an arena and something you get hurt, and

1:26:32 Speaker 1: this medicine floats down to you. In that moment, you

1:26:36 Speaker 1: might perceive it as good, right, and but not realizing

1:26:43 Speaker 1: the sponsors sent it to you because they have money.

1:26:47 Speaker 1: They've waged money on you, so they've sent it to

1:26:50 Speaker 1: you so that you could win because they could win money.

1:26:53 Speaker 1: So yes, is it good for you and that immediate?

1:26:57 Speaker 1: But are they ultimately good?

1:27:00 Speaker 4: WHOA?

1:27:01 Speaker 1: Right?

1:27:02 Speaker 4: That just painted a really really vivid image in my

1:27:05 Speaker 4: head because that's WHOA like. Are we Have you ever

1:27:11 Speaker 4: taken this? Have you ever thought about that? Are we

1:27:15 Speaker 4: in some sort of simulation is that it makes sense,

1:27:24 Speaker 4: like are are so? Yeah?

1:27:26 Speaker 1: So yes, it's good.

1:27:27 Speaker 4: It's good in that immediate sense.

1:27:29 Speaker 1: So you know, Ingo said he believed there were like

1:27:34 Speaker 1: two fractions. John Keiola said the same thing many early. Gosh,

1:27:39 Speaker 1: Charles Ford said the same thing, like we're you when

1:27:41 Speaker 1: we're living in a farm. There are different entities that

1:27:45 Speaker 1: have different agendas. We don't know what you know, again,

1:27:48 Speaker 1: we don't know what their agenda is.

1:27:50 Speaker 4: So can I quantify it as good? I don't know.

1:27:55 Speaker 1: I don't have the full spectrum. Can I quantify it

1:27:58 Speaker 1: as evil? Again, you don't have the full spectrum. But

1:28:01 Speaker 1: I know that in that moment, good happens and in

1:28:06 Speaker 1: certain moments evil happens.

1:28:09 Speaker 4: Yeah, which could be why our ancestors and you know,

1:28:18 Speaker 4: they called it religion, angels and demons, but we call

1:28:23 Speaker 4: it aliens or extraterrestrials non human intelligence. Right, So just

1:28:29 Speaker 4: kind of like we're jock relays where the name kind

1:28:32 Speaker 4: of just changes throughout the ages, and it kind of

1:28:36 Speaker 4: I mean, if you look at our technologically technological advancement,

1:28:39 Speaker 4: it kind of coincides with that. So it's what best

1:28:44 Speaker 4: it's how we can best put words to the phenomena.

1:28:49 Speaker 1: That sure, sure so yeah, so when I looked at

1:28:52 Speaker 1: you coolorac, and I and that it's a Cherokee, it's

1:28:55 Speaker 1: a Cherokee reservation, it's it's a Cherokee, it's a Cherokee artifact.

1:29:02 Speaker 1: But the Cherokee say it was there before they even

1:29:04 Speaker 1: came into the area. The legend is that this this

1:29:09 Speaker 1: giant would use a portal to come into the Cherokee

1:29:13 Speaker 1: land and and took one of their people to be

1:29:18 Speaker 1: his bride. And the brother of this girl followed Judahcola

1:29:23 Speaker 1: and tried to take her back and was killed by Judahcola.

1:29:28 Speaker 1: But if you look at these early legends, right, miss legends,

1:29:31 Speaker 1: fairies the gin in Islamic tradition, and a lot of

1:29:38 Speaker 1: these entities, they talk about needing brides or husbands, and

1:29:45 Speaker 1: how they take children to be their their spouses and

1:29:50 Speaker 1: to create children. And then you look at modern abductees

1:29:54 Speaker 1: and they're saying, well, my, you know, my bottomed bodily

1:29:58 Speaker 1: fluids in that capacity or taken from me. We categorize

1:30:02 Speaker 1: it as aliens on a spaceship. Others categorize it as

1:30:07 Speaker 1: fairies taking them. So to me, the storyline hasn't changed what.

1:30:13 Speaker 4: What they look like has changed the descriptors the descriptors

1:30:18 Speaker 4: of them. So that's that's very interesting. I mean, that's

1:30:22 Speaker 4: that's kind of why I think happened, or or that's

1:30:25 Speaker 4: the best way to I think contextualize it. I want

1:30:29 Speaker 4: to ask you something, though, did Ingo ever tell you

1:30:33 Speaker 4: anything that I don't know? Maybe was too sensitive and

1:30:41 Speaker 4: that you can't or are Maybe he was too scared

1:30:46 Speaker 4: to say, Uh, was there anything? Did he ever see

1:30:50 Speaker 4: anything that was that that that hasn't been spoken about

1:30:54 Speaker 4: in his books?

1:30:55 Speaker 1: Sure? I think I think if you what Ingo did

1:31:00 Speaker 1: was Ingo taught me how to research things and how

1:31:05 Speaker 1: to put things together. So he would say, if you

1:31:09 Speaker 1: read in the paper about an earthquake, you forget that

1:31:14 Speaker 1: six months later there was a you know, if there's

1:31:16 Speaker 1: another earthquake, you forget about this one six months earlier.

1:31:20 Speaker 1: But if you cut it out and you put it

1:31:21 Speaker 1: in a folder, and you start putting all the earthquakes together,

1:31:25 Speaker 1: you'll start to see a pattern. You'll start to recognize something.

1:31:30 Speaker 1: So he taught me how to look at information and

1:31:34 Speaker 1: recognize patterns and see that sometimes information is covered in

1:31:40 Speaker 1: some way, and how to like investigate it right. So

1:31:43 Speaker 1: if you look at his remote Viewing the Real Story,

1:31:48 Speaker 1: Remote Viewing the Real Story, his book Starfire and horse Penetration,

1:31:53 Speaker 1: all of these in some capacity, I think our disclosure documents.

1:31:58 Speaker 1: But of course he's not going to be able to

1:31:59 Speaker 1: tell outright, so he gives us lots of clues about it.

1:32:04 Speaker 1: And so what he taught me was how to go

1:32:08 Speaker 1: about solving this clues. But also because I've read I

1:32:12 Speaker 1: have access to a lot of his materials read Retter material,

1:32:16 Speaker 1: not necessarily in the public domain, but maybe in his

1:32:19 Speaker 1: archives and separate from that, and know where he's been

1:32:22 Speaker 1: quoted in other places he's written documents, I'm able to

1:32:26 Speaker 1: go to those and I can use those as some

1:32:29 Speaker 1: sort of cipher and on package actually what he's talking about.

1:32:35 Speaker 1: And I'll give you an example. I've posted this on

1:32:37 Speaker 1: X recently. So in his story about the supermarket, and

1:32:41 Speaker 1: he's with another psychic call yeah Conrad, and he says,

1:32:47 Speaker 1: I'm staying in the house of Conrad. I'm staying at it.

1:32:51 Speaker 1: I'm staying in his house. Like, well, that's not an

1:32:55 Speaker 1: enacting reviews, you're not staying in somebody's house. But that's

1:32:59 Speaker 1: a very simple, right I'm not staying in somebody's house.

1:33:02 Speaker 1: You're staying with somebody or at.

1:33:04 Speaker 4: Their house, at their house.

1:33:07 Speaker 1: So I said, well, what is what is in houses?

1:33:10 Speaker 1: And I know he's an astrologer. Well, when planets are

1:33:14 Speaker 1: in houses, that's in astrology terms, So planets are in houses,

1:33:20 Speaker 1: that is a description of somebody's personality and experiences. So

1:33:25 Speaker 1: understanding the placement of a planet in a house is

1:33:30 Speaker 1: going to unlock some description of them as an individual

1:33:35 Speaker 1: in their experiences. So immediately following that, he gives us

1:33:40 Speaker 1: descriptions of Conrad. So I'm going to give you descriptions

1:33:45 Speaker 1: of Conrad. Now you take that and you can put

1:33:48 Speaker 1: it against something and you'll figure out who Conrad is.

1:33:52 Speaker 4: Wow.

1:33:53 Speaker 1: Right, Simple things like that, that's right or or you know.

1:34:02 Speaker 1: He says in Penetration, I got this signal, and it's in.

1:34:07 Speaker 1: The signal came three months later. So I got this

1:34:09 Speaker 1: signal in in he was like June and three months

1:34:12 Speaker 1: later would be the Fall. And the next chapter he says,

1:34:14 Speaker 1: in July the signal came, Well, July isn't three months

1:34:20 Speaker 1: So he's giving us like really kind of obvious things

1:34:24 Speaker 1: but hidden in a way that we're reading it with

1:34:28 Speaker 1: the subtext, you'll be able to kind of start to say, question, Hey,

1:34:34 Speaker 1: if we're if they're flying to Alaska in the middle

1:34:36 Speaker 1: of the summer and they arrive at nighttime, Well that

1:34:39 Speaker 1: can't be because Alaska in the summer is in potential

1:34:42 Speaker 1: perpetual daylight.

1:34:46 Speaker 4: Right.

1:34:46 Speaker 1: So right, so he's giving us little clues along the way.

1:34:53 Speaker 1: But of course everybody loves everybody loves the stories of

1:34:56 Speaker 1: penetration because it's palatable. Oh, it's just a crazy He's

1:35:00 Speaker 1: sexy alien in the supermarket, right, Like, how you know,

1:35:04 Speaker 1: how can you trust what he says? He's like, see

1:35:06 Speaker 1: some sexy alien in the supermarket? Well, what does he

1:35:10 Speaker 1: say in the supermarket? I turned around so I could

1:35:12 Speaker 1: see the front.

1:35:15 Speaker 4: So what do you think that means?

1:35:18 Speaker 1: Oh, he's not looking at a sexy woman in the supermarket.

1:35:22 Speaker 1: He's somewhere where he needs to get around whatever in

1:35:26 Speaker 1: blocking him, and he needs to see the front of it.

1:35:30 Speaker 4: Yeah what. Wow, that's a that's quite a trip because

1:35:35 Speaker 4: that means I mean I'd have to go back and

1:35:37 Speaker 4: start relooking at everything and everything and everything.

1:35:41 Speaker 1: Yeah. So so I think that's spectacularly crafty of him.

1:35:47 Speaker 4: He's kind of leaving codes. You know, I can't say

1:35:50 Speaker 4: it at face val, I can't say it like you

1:35:53 Speaker 4: said at face value to a podium and say this

1:35:56 Speaker 4: is what's going on. But here's my way of telling

1:36:00 Speaker 4: you read between the lines, right.

1:36:02 Speaker 1: And so here and so can you imagine how how

1:36:08 Speaker 1: sad and frustrating it must have been for him to

1:36:11 Speaker 1: write these stories and then everybody believes the stories, and

1:36:18 Speaker 1: and he has to stick to those stories. Because he's

1:36:21 Speaker 1: written these stories, he can't tell you all it's just

1:36:24 Speaker 1: an allegory, and so now he has to support it.

1:36:28 Speaker 1: I mean, how how like just.

1:36:33 Speaker 4: Sad?

1:36:33 Speaker 1: I can't even find a word like how sad for

1:36:35 Speaker 1: him to be Like I tried to write this so

1:36:38 Speaker 1: you guys would figure it out, and now you guys

1:36:41 Speaker 1: are doing is like tell me all about the sexy alien, so.

1:36:45 Speaker 4: You're look wrong aspect of aspects, like somebody, somebody figure

1:36:51 Speaker 4: out this.

1:36:53 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, I got to support this because

1:36:55 Speaker 1: this is what I wrote. Otherwise you know I'm going

1:36:57 Speaker 1: to end up like Price.

1:36:59 Speaker 4: Right right, But again, and it's also a way to

1:37:02 Speaker 4: weed out those who are in it for the wrong reasons,

1:37:06 Speaker 4: who want the information for the wrong reasons. If you're

1:37:09 Speaker 4: just focused on, well, what did the extra sexy, extra

1:37:12 Speaker 4: chrest feel look like? You know that? Oh you're clearly

1:37:15 Speaker 4: not grasping the whole the whole story, the story. Yeah

1:37:20 Speaker 4: you shouldn't know.

1:37:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, so I try to see so

1:37:26 Speaker 1: part of me know because I've seen his own whole

1:37:29 Speaker 1: art catalog too, Like I know that when he's like

1:37:32 Speaker 1: she's in a this bikini looking not like a halter

1:37:38 Speaker 1: top that's with yellow and pink polka dots, it's actually

1:37:42 Speaker 1: a motif that he used in a lot of his paintings,

1:37:45 Speaker 1: and I recognize that he must have said that for

1:37:49 Speaker 1: a reason, and like polka dots is just as the

1:37:53 Speaker 1: history of polka dots comes from rock art in South

1:37:58 Speaker 1: Africa or used to designate supernatural potency or some sort

1:38:04 Speaker 1: of like shamanic possession, like some entities coming through and

1:38:09 Speaker 1: that's it's portrayed, and rock art is pokonts. Yeah, dangerous,

1:38:16 Speaker 1: very dangerous, I would say, dangerous situations. Yeah.

1:38:21 Speaker 4: So do you think that that your path or our

1:38:25 Speaker 4: paths are I don't know, I don't want to say predetermined,

1:38:30 Speaker 4: But do you think that you're always meant to kind

1:38:33 Speaker 4: of be who you are and I who I am. Yeah,

1:38:38 Speaker 4: that's a tough question.

1:38:39 Speaker 1: I mean, Ingo tackles that sort of in your no

1:38:42 Speaker 1: Stradamis factor because you said, well, clearly a future must

1:38:45 Speaker 1: exist if we're able to perceive it, right, But does

1:38:50 Speaker 1: it also mean we can change our path our past?

1:38:53 Speaker 1: Like for people who have premonitions, there are those who

1:38:58 Speaker 1: act on it and alter that course. So that he

1:39:01 Speaker 1: talks about the Titanic being a good example, but quite

1:39:05 Speaker 1: a few people had documented premonitions. Some of them acted

1:39:11 Speaker 1: on it and canceled their tickets, some ignored it.

1:39:16 Speaker 4: And went on.

1:39:17 Speaker 1: So, you know, was it always meant to be that

1:39:21 Speaker 1: they would ignore it or that.

1:39:23 Speaker 4: I don't know.

1:39:24 Speaker 1: I don't know, but it seems that there must be

1:39:26 Speaker 1: some hints of a possible future that maybe we are

1:39:31 Speaker 1: able to take advantage of if we listened to.

1:39:34 Speaker 4: It, if we listened to it to it, Yeah, trust

1:39:38 Speaker 4: your gut. Yeah, I always say, because the same thing

1:39:41 Speaker 4: happened with things like you know, nine to eleven. There's

1:39:44 Speaker 4: a lot of people who had visions of planes crashing

1:39:48 Speaker 4: and then didn't get on their flights or change their

1:39:51 Speaker 4: flight or whatever for whatever reason, changed their stay. All

1:39:55 Speaker 4: these different stories and that's maybe a more modern example

1:39:58 Speaker 4: the Titanic, but it allows us to you know, I

1:40:04 Speaker 4: mean nine to eleven happy. When I was a kid,

1:40:05 Speaker 4: I remember it. So these witnesses are still here to

1:40:09 Speaker 4: this day that we can talk to. And many people

1:40:12 Speaker 4: had premonitions or gut feelings leading up to that event.

1:40:19 Speaker 4: So I think that's powerful. It is powerful.

1:40:23 Speaker 1: I watched a show called The Missing.

1:40:29 Speaker 4: Something like that. It had like several seasons.

1:40:32 Speaker 1: I was thirty nine shows in. In every single show,

1:40:38 Speaker 1: somebody related to the missing person says, and sometimes it's

1:40:42 Speaker 1: a police officer. I had a bad feeling. I knew

1:40:46 Speaker 1: deep down in my bones.

1:40:48 Speaker 4: I knew in my.

1:40:49 Speaker 1: Gut something was wrong. Every single person. None of these

1:40:52 Speaker 1: people say they're psychic. None of these people were saying

1:40:56 Speaker 1: that they had some future seeing ability or telepathically linked

1:41:01 Speaker 1: with the person. They're just articulating some sort of feeling

1:41:07 Speaker 1: that they had about something with the missing person.

1:41:12 Speaker 4: Right, It's almost like it's almost like entanglement. Yeah, right,

1:41:18 Speaker 4: you become There's the same thing that when two or

1:41:23 Speaker 4: more particles are are entangled, no matter how much time

1:41:28 Speaker 4: space or distances in between them. Uh, you know, one

1:41:33 Speaker 4: action for one action. So it's almost like our consciousnesses

1:41:38 Speaker 4: are becoming entangled and we get these feelings or some

1:41:42 Speaker 4: degree of that, which is is really interesting because that

1:41:47 Speaker 4: that that that, like we talked about earlier, trust your gut, uh,

1:41:53 Speaker 4: the instincts, Where do these come from? If not our

1:41:57 Speaker 4: brain having the ability to pick up on things that

1:42:01 Speaker 4: we can't see, feel or touch usually, but our brains

1:42:06 Speaker 4: may be more aware of our our are true, we

1:42:10 Speaker 4: know that we only see like a little bit of

1:42:12 Speaker 4: a light spectrum, and there's a whole huge amount that

1:42:16 Speaker 4: we don't see. So what's to say that there is

1:42:19 Speaker 4: not more than that?

1:42:21 Speaker 1: There's more than that. And Ingo would say that that

1:42:26 Speaker 1: intuition part actually is before our thinking. Like some people

1:42:31 Speaker 1: talk about that their bodies just stop like something stops them.

1:42:36 Speaker 1: But it's not even an intellectual process. It is in

1:42:39 Speaker 1: just your body immediately taking some action of some sort,

1:42:43 Speaker 1: like not stepping off a curb, like when the light

1:42:46 Speaker 1: changes and then the car comes. And so there's something

1:42:50 Speaker 1: that is in our bodies, not even our mind, that

1:42:55 Speaker 1: is interacting with us to keep us from doing this.

1:42:59 Speaker 1: Something in stinctual is hard wired, hardwired in us.

1:43:05 Speaker 4: Yeah, do you think it's interacting with us? And our

1:43:08 Speaker 4: environment around us.

1:43:11 Speaker 1: And somehow picking up on it.

1:43:12 Speaker 4: Some big read that. Yeah, I've had that kind of

1:43:16 Speaker 4: experience where I remember I was driving and it was

1:43:20 Speaker 4: I was having a company van and I was on

1:43:22 Speaker 4: the highway and I was going you know, seventy and

1:43:26 Speaker 4: the highway was clear, and I remember looking up into

1:43:30 Speaker 4: or maybe looking down at the radio to change it,

1:43:33 Speaker 4: and something told me to like snap and look up.

1:43:37 Speaker 4: And as I did, traffic had come to like a

1:43:40 Speaker 4: grind hole really quick, and I just avoided this car

1:43:45 Speaker 4: that dead stopped and maybe saved my life. It wasn't

1:43:52 Speaker 4: like you said, intellectual, It was my body just literally

1:43:55 Speaker 4: did it as if it was like it's sense. The

1:43:58 Speaker 4: danger was there. I had to pull off the id

1:44:00 Speaker 4: to get off the highway, pull the car over, and

1:44:03 Speaker 4: I got out and like touched the ground. I was shaking. Yeah,

1:44:07 Speaker 4: I took over.

1:44:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something takes over, right, And it's not an

1:44:14 Speaker 1: intellectual like because you're not even processing. You're looking down,

1:44:19 Speaker 1: so you're not processing intellectually what's in front of you

1:44:22 Speaker 1: in the road.

1:44:23 Speaker 4: Right, Some a a guardian angel or guide guiding entathy.

1:44:29 Speaker 4: So I find that to be intriguing. What what would

1:44:33 Speaker 4: you say, I wonder, we only have a couple more

1:44:35 Speaker 4: minutes left. But what would you say to someone who

1:44:40 Speaker 4: is looking into Ingo Swan's life and and maybe he

1:44:45 Speaker 4: wants to become a remote viewer or thinks they have

1:44:48 Speaker 4: some sort of ability, uh that that is similar. What

1:44:52 Speaker 4: would you say to that well looking into Ingo's life.

1:44:56 Speaker 1: I mean the website ingoswan dot com has got a

1:44:59 Speaker 1: lot of great information on it in terms of NGO's life.

1:45:04 Speaker 1: I think Ingo would would say, start by racking becoming aware.

1:45:11 Speaker 1: So first you have to break out of this what

1:45:14 Speaker 1: you called reality box, of this prison, these frames of references,

1:45:18 Speaker 1: So you can't do anything unless you believe it is possible.

1:45:24 Speaker 1: So that that kind of faith element, which I think

1:45:26 Speaker 1: is pretty fascinating, that you have to ultimately come to

1:45:30 Speaker 1: a spot where you believe. So you have to understand

1:45:34 Speaker 1: that we have awareness systems and perpetual and perceptional systems

1:45:39 Speaker 1: that are much grander than were led to believe. And

1:45:42 Speaker 1: I think it just becomes starting to listen to yourself.

1:45:46 Speaker 4: Now, you know, remote viewing.

1:45:49 Speaker 1: As a technique, what Ingo taught to army intelligence individuals

1:45:56 Speaker 1: is very different than what you find in the environment today.

1:46:00 Speaker 1: You know, contact is very post is very much a

1:46:03 Speaker 1: part of the equation, and that was something NGO worked

1:46:06 Speaker 1: very hard to avoid. You know, again, he didn't feel

1:46:10 Speaker 1: like they were in our best interests. He did like, again,

1:46:13 Speaker 1: we don't know their agenda, we don't know who they are.

1:46:16 Speaker 1: We don't need their help. We have these abilities internally,

1:46:19 Speaker 1: we can tap into these abilities internally. And in fact,

1:46:23 Speaker 1: when we created the protocols for controlled remote viewing, he

1:46:27 Speaker 1: did it as an intellectual process to prevent anything from

1:46:30 Speaker 1: coming in or relying on anything outside. But everybody has

1:46:35 Speaker 1: to ultimately choose their own path. He said. The most

1:46:39 Speaker 1: important experience is firsthand experience is adamantly against what he'd

1:46:45 Speaker 1: call like armchair intellectualism. So like secondhand experience, saying, we

1:46:50 Speaker 1: will decide that we will believe people who just have

1:46:56 Speaker 1: an opinion on something rather than the people who actually

1:47:00 Speaker 1: experience it, and that is a very sad state, you know. Like,

1:47:05 Speaker 1: like you said, if you want to know what's in

1:47:07 Speaker 1: the envelope, open the envelope. Know that, just like going

1:47:11 Speaker 1: into a jungle, there's a lot of things you might

1:47:14 Speaker 1: not have a framework reference for, and being attuned to

1:47:18 Speaker 1: that I think is very important. And like I said,

1:47:22 Speaker 1: you know, his thing is tapping into this interconnectedness of

1:47:27 Speaker 1: all of us and recognizing reck to start by recognizing

1:47:31 Speaker 1: we're extraordinary. We're an extraordinary species.

1:47:35 Speaker 4: Right, absolutely, absolutely? And how can people? How can people

1:47:41 Speaker 4: keep up with what you're doing? So in all of

1:47:45 Speaker 4: your work.

1:47:46 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I have an on X on the platform

1:47:49 Speaker 1: X at estate Ingoswan. I started in Instagram at a

1:47:56 Speaker 1: state Ngoswan official and then a YouTube channel along the same.

1:48:00 Speaker 1: So what I'm doing currently is I'm taking his superpowers

1:48:04 Speaker 1: of the biolind essays. He put those all up free.

1:48:07 Speaker 1: I've they're in as one big conglomerate on the Ngoswan website,

1:48:11 Speaker 1: but also by topic too, They're broken out by topic.

1:48:13 Speaker 1: So I'm taking them. I've founded a generative AI platform

1:48:18 Speaker 1: and I'm just taking paragraphs and I'm putting them into

1:48:20 Speaker 1: this generative AI and creating two to four minute videos

1:48:24 Speaker 1: and posting them on YouTube.

1:48:26 Speaker 4: That's amazing. That's that's absolutely amazing. So I'll put all

1:48:29 Speaker 4: of those links and the description for this video below, guys,

1:48:34 Speaker 4: and for the podcast anyone who's just listening, actually most

1:48:38 Speaker 4: of my audience. So what am I saying? I should

1:48:40 Speaker 4: be towards so last last question, if you had to

1:48:45 Speaker 4: describe them going three words, what would they be?

1:48:54 Speaker 1: Iigmatic and so an enigma.

1:48:57 Speaker 4: An enigma would be one congenial and determined. Okay, all right,

1:49:08 Speaker 4: I love that. I love that. Thank you so much

1:49:10 Speaker 4: for coming out today. I really really this is so fun. Yeah,

1:49:14 Speaker 4: it was fun. Thank you.

1:49:15 Speaker 1: Thank you for letting me share Ngo and NGO's stories

1:49:19 Speaker 1: and Ingo's message for humanity. I think that's very important,

1:49:22 Speaker 1: and so I appreciate the platform that you're you're giving

1:49:26 Speaker 1: giving me and for your listeners too well.

1:49:28 Speaker 4: I would very much love to have have more conversations

1:49:31 Speaker 4: about Ingo's work, maybe go into certain certain topics like

1:49:36 Speaker 4: you said, and I will definitely keep people up to

1:49:39 Speaker 4: date with what you're doing and point them in that direction,

1:49:42 Speaker 4: especially because I get a lot of people that you know, uh,

1:49:45 Speaker 4: you know, I want to I think I have this

1:49:47 Speaker 4: ability or I want to be a remote view or

1:49:49 Speaker 4: what do I do? So I like to be able

1:49:51 Speaker 4: to point people in the right direction. So thank you

1:49:54 Speaker 4: so much Ellie for coming on. Thank you for the

1:49:57 Speaker 4: work that you're doing. And you're to mister Ingo Sman

1:50:02 Speaker 4: and what he has left us. All right, well you too,

1:50:05 Speaker 4: same Thank you all right, everyone and watching. Thank you

1:50:10 Speaker 4: so much. You guys are the lifeblood of what we

1:50:13 Speaker 4: do here, and I wouldn't be able to do this

1:50:16 Speaker 4: UH this work and get amazing guests on here if

1:50:19 Speaker 4: it wasn't for for everybody who supports and UH engages.

1:50:24 Speaker 4: So thank you so much. We'll see you next time. Tonight,

1:50:27 Speaker 4: I'm having Ron James on the show live as well

1:50:31 Speaker 4: as next week. I think we'll be recording with Chris Bloods,

1:50:34 Speaker 4: so that should be fun. Keep your eyes to this guy,

1:50:38 Speaker 4: you never know what might fly by. Thanks An, I

1:51:20 Speaker 4: don't dast I don't